Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 3:27pm

Odhinn wrote: »

So somebody paying a higher rate of tax should be seen ahead of somebody on a lower rate?

No. Somebody paying tax should get preference over someone paying no tax.

Odhinn · 24-06-2019 3:45pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

No. Somebody paying tax should get preference over someone paying no tax.

But everyone pays tax, directly or indirectly.

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 3:47pm

Odhinn wrote: »

But everyone pays tax, directly or indirectly.

No they don't. A tax is a deduction from income. Free money that is taxed is not a deduction from income. It's just less free money!

DrumSteve · 24-06-2019 3:50pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

No they don't. A tax is a deduction from income. Free money that is taxed is not a deduction from income. It's just less free money!

Really?

Whats VAT then?

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 3:53pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

Really?

Whats VAT then?

Vat is a different type of tax. It's a tax on consumer spending.

So if I use my earned income to buy new underpants a percentage cost of the underpants will be vat.

If Johnny who does sweet f all every day also fancies getting new underpants he essentially gets them for free. He didn't earn the money to buy the new jocks. It was handed to him. He pays no vat. The taxpayer picks up the bill for him. He gets free cash every week and free underpants

Odhinn · 24-06-2019 3:54pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

No they don't. A tax is a deduction from income. Free money that is taxed is not a deduction from income. It's just less free money!

You pay tax on goods and services, as yer man said - VAT.

Grayson · 24-06-2019 3:55pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why should I have to suffer for someone that shouldn't be even in the country but they get treatment straight away as the authorities have a duty of care but yet I have to be on a waiting list, my mother had cancer and had to lay in a corridor in A&E for over 24hours listening and seeing all sorts of abuse etc.....

Statistically foreigners pay more into the system than they take out. They're on average younger and healthier than the general population. There's also lower unemployment since most come here for work. So statistically foreigners contributed more to the wage of the doctor you were waiting on than they did to the queue you are in.

The health service needs work but it's not the fault of foreigners.

Odhinn · 24-06-2019 3:55pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Vat is a different type of tax. It's a tax on consumer spending.

But it IS A TAX and unless you're managing to survive on thin air in a cave somewhere, bollock naked, you're going to end up paying it.

Odhinn · 24-06-2019 4:01pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Vat is a different type of tax. It's a tax on consumer spending.

So if I use my earned income to buy new underpants a percentage cost of the underpants will be vat.

If Johnny who does sweet f all every day also fancies getting new underpants he essentially gets them for free. He didn't earn the money to buy the new jocks. It was handed to him. He pays no vat. The taxpayer picks up the bill for him. He gets free cash every week and free underpants

Maybe in your galaxy. In this one, he pays VAT on what he buys.

Stephen15 · 24-06-2019 4:29pm

Boggles wrote: »

From Iraq to Croker joy: Refugee turned hurler Zak wins All-Ireland title

Fair play to him he obivously made the effort to integrate into Irish society a good example of legal immigration working. Now the open borders brigade will use him as one example to promote their agenda of open borders and multiculturalism.

One person moving here is more likely to integrate than large numbers of immigrants from the same place. I'm pro legal immigration in small quantities which usually works to benefit the host nation but I'm against mass immigration from people all coming from the same place with a similar alien culture which has proved a disaster in may countries.

For example if an Irish person moved to Japan tommorrow on his/her own they would have to make the effort to integrate into Japanese culture and society order to get by fund themselves and do daily tasks. But if 10,000 Irish people moved to Japan tommorrow then they would likely stick together live in the same area only really see one another and fail to integrate into Japanese society.

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 4:37pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Maybe in your galaxy. In this one, he pays VAT on what he buys.

No he doesn't. The taxpayer pays it. The taxpayer gives him his money. He earns nothing. It's free for him.
Put the hand out every week and money comes out over the post office counter like magic.

Odhinn · 24-06-2019 4:40pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

No he doesn't. The taxpayer pays it. The taxpayer gives him his money. He earns nothing. It's free for him.
Put the hand out every week and money comes out over the post office counter like magic.

He pays VAT on his purchases. It's an INDIRECT TAX. He is not VAT exempt.

Boggles · 24-06-2019 4:44pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Fair play to him he obivously made the effort to integrate into Irish society a good example of legal immigration working. Now the open borders brigade will use him as one example to promote their agenda of open borders and multiculturalism.

One person moving here is more likely to integrate than large numbers of immigrants from the same place.

He came with his family.

Who are the "open borders brigade"?

pixelburp · 24-06-2019 4:50pm

I've never met, spoken to or read of a single rational person who could be seriously considered part of "the open borders brigade". Absolutely nobody wants "open borders" as is insinuated by those using the phrase, but it's a convenience to passively shut down conversation if you can say "well, you obviously want murderers and rapists flooding the country".

Personally, I want compassionate borders, that acknowledge and support the harsh reality of human life and treats those arriving with dignity, barring the very obvious exceptions that shouldn't even need outlining.

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 5:06pm

Odhinn wrote: »

He pays VAT on his purchases. It's an INDIRECT TAX. He is not VAT exempt.

Costs him nothing. Not even a cent. It's free money paid by the taxpayer.

Going back to your argument that unemployed pay tax. They don't. It's money given to them by the government going back to the government. Costs him nothing. He just gets free stuff out of it.
Also free housing and healthcare.

All shouldered by those who bother get up every day

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 5:07pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I've never met, spoken to or read of a single rational person who could be seriously considered part of "the open borders brigade". Absolutely nobody wants "open borders" as is insinuated by those using the phrase, but it's a convenience to passively shut down conversation if you can say "well, you obviously want murderers and rapists flooding the country".

Personally, I want compassionate borders, that acknowledge and support the harsh reality of human life and treats those arriving with dignity, barring the very obvious exceptions that shouldn't even need outlining.

Also calling someone a racist because they disagree with your open border ravings is an effective way to shut down a conversation.
Well it was.

Stephen15 · 24-06-2019 5:10pm

Boggles wrote: »

He came with his family.

One family one person whatever big difference to thousands of people coming

Who are the "open borders brigade"?

People like Mark Malone on Twitter a far left activist who's salary is paid by your taxes as he works for an NGO. Yet he still gets to spew his bile unchallegened by anyone aprt from on Twitter. Most far left groups like PBP etc. also support open borders.

myshirt · 24-06-2019 5:12pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Fair play to him he obivously made the effort to integrate into Irish society a good example of legal immigration working. Now the open borders brigade will use him as one example to promote their agenda of open borders and multiculturalism.

One person moving here is more likely to integrate than large numbers of immigrants from the same place. I'm pro legal immigration in small quantities which usually works to benefit the host nation but I'm against mass immigration from people all coming from the same place with a similar alien culture which has proved a disaster in may countries.

For example if an Irish person moved to Japan tommorrow on his/her own they would have to make the effort to integrate into Japanese culture and society order to get by fund themselves and do daily tasks. But if 10,000 Irish people moved to Japan tommorrow then they would likely stick together live in the same area only really see one another and fail to integrate into Japanese society.

So it's the Japanese you're after now Stephen?

pixelburp · 24-06-2019 5:13pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Also calling someone a racist because they disagree with your open border ravings is an effective way to shut down a conversation.
Well it was.

So, exactly what I'm saying then. Grand so. "Open border ravings" by your own words, hyperbole for convenience. Closed borders are impossible and don't work, but wanting compassion in the process doesn't make it "raving" either.

I don't call someone who disagrees with me racist, I call them racist when they say racist things, usually circling around some insinuation, direct or otherwise, about the other'ness of Irish citizens with dark skin.

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 5:14pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

One family one person whatever big difference to thousands of people coming

People like Mark Malone on Twitter a far left activist who's salary is paid by your taxes as he works for an NGO. Yet he still gets to spew his bile unchallegened by anyone aprt from on Twitter. Most far left groups like PBP etc. also support open borders.

Can't find him. What's his username

Stephen15 · 24-06-2019 5:15pm

myshirt wrote: »

So it's the Japanese you're after now Stephen?

Just using it as an example. Japan is light years ahead of Ireland and take a far more sensible approach to immigration than us.

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 5:17pm

pixelburp wrote: »

So, exactly what I'm saying then. Grand so. "Open border ravings" by your own words, hyperbole for convenience. Closed borders are impossible and don't work, but wanting compassion in the process doesn't make it "raving" either.

I don't call someone who disagrees with me racist, I call them racist when they say racist things, usually circling around some insinuation, direct or otherwise, about the other'ness of Irish citizens with dark skin.

I want the money taken from my pay slip to be spent on things that will make my life better.
Jonny from Nigeria can go do 1

Odhinn · 24-06-2019 5:20pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Costs him (..................) day

23% of the price of his purchase (to generalise) goes to the exchequer. He pays tax indirectly.

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 5:21pm

Odhinn wrote: »

23% of the price of his purchase (to generalise) goes to the exchequer. He pays tax indirectly.

He isn't spending his own money. Costs him nothing

ohnonotgmail · 24-06-2019 5:22pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

One family one person whatever big difference to thousands of people coming

People like Mark Malone on Twitter a far left activist who's salary is paid by your taxes as he works for an NGO. Yet he still gets to spew his bile unchallegened by anyone aprt from on Twitter. Most far left groups like PBP etc. also support open borders.

what NGO does malone work for? i thought he as a freelance journalist.

pixelburp · 24-06-2019 5:22pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

I want the money taken from my pay slip to be spent on things that will make my life better.
Jonny from Nigeria can go do 1

So it's strawmen now and the 'aul "F*ck you, I've got mine". Hey at least you're honest, so I respect the candour even if I can't even reach your borderline libertarianism. Though IIRC, further-flung, non EU migrants were/are more likely to settle down, so there's probably a good chance Johnny from Nigeria's working his ass off to make a life here; probably a harder worker than you

Boxing.Fan · 24-06-2019 5:28pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Can't find him. What's his username

Soundmigration lol. That's one of his pages.

Odhinn · 24-06-2019 5:33pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

He isn't spending his own money. Costs him nothing

More nonsense. He is subject to indirect taxation.

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 5:33pm

pixelburp wrote: »

So it's strawmen now and the 'aul "F*ck you, I've got mine". Hey at least you're honest, so I respect the candour even if I can't even reach your borderline libertarianism. Though IIRC, further-flung, non EU migrants were/are more likely to settle down, so there's probably a good chance Johnny from Nigeria's working his ass off to make a life here; probably a harder worker than you

If Johnny has a skill that's in demand and he will pay his own rent or get a mortgage then bring him on in.

If not then we don't need him
Would you not agree?
Work smarter not harder

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 5:35pm

Odhinn wrote: »

More nonsense. He is subject to indirect taxation.

It's not a tax if it doesn't cost you anything

Odhinn · 24-06-2019 5:41pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

It's not a tax if it doesn't cost you anything

It costs him 23% of whatever the price was.

pixelburp · 24-06-2019 5:43pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

If Johnny has a skill that's in demand and he will pay his own rent or get a mortgage then bring him on in.

If not then we don't need him
Would you not agree?
Work smarter not harder

Again, with this "open borders brigade" myth, predicated on this idea we want people unwilling to work, contribute and mix with the country. Migrants with skills are always preferred, but unskilled labour primarily made of migrants, students, (or migrant-students) is a fact of life.

We should be helping anyone find a role, not making it difficult to live, then grumbling because they're out of work and sponges. "Work smarter" is just being glib and reductionist, but like I said we clearly have nothing in common here.

Blueshoe wrote: »

It's not a tax if it doesn't cost you anything

VAT adds to the cost you pay. You're being taxed at the till when you pay the ~20% extra above the value. It literally has the word "Tax" in the acronym?

Boggles · 24-06-2019 5:52pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

People like Mark Malone on Twitter a far left activist who's salary is paid by your taxes as he works for an NGO. Yet he still gets to spew his bile unchallegened by anyone aprt from on Twitter. Most far left groups like PBP etc. also support open borders.

Some lad on Twitter. Never heard of him.

So what you are saying is no one of any significance wants complete open borders?

Why the scare mongering so?

Odhinn · 24-06-2019 5:53pm

Boggles wrote: »

Some lad on Twitter. Never heard of him.

So what you are saying is no one of any significance wants complete open borders?

Why the scare mongering so?

We'll all become Nigerian if they let them in, or something. Apparently you get less irish the more foreigners there are about.

Annasopra · 24-06-2019 6:35pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

No. Somebody paying tax should get preference over someone paying no tax.

Why are you suggesting all immigrants dont pay income tax?

Annasopra · 24-06-2019 6:36pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

No they don't. A tax is a deduction from income. Free money that is taxed is not a deduction from income. It's just less free money!

This is absolute nonsense. There are other forms of tax outside income tax.

Annasopra · 24-06-2019 6:43pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Costs him nothing. Not even a cent. It's free money paid by the taxpayer.

Going back to your argument that unemployed pay tax. They don't. It's money given to them by the government going back to the government. Costs him nothing. He just gets free stuff out of it.
Also free housing and healthcare.

All shouldered by those who bother get up every day

You clearly dont understand economics.

If you didnt pay dole then these people couldnt purchase what they do. Then vat receipts would be massively down. Then companies couldnt survive because nobody is buying their goods. Then companies have to let more people go. Then theres more unemplomyment. Causing many more problems on the housing and healthcare systems.

Its all very well ranting how your taxes subsidise people on the dole. Your policies would effectively put you on the dole.

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 7:11pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

You clearly dont understand economics.

If you didnt pay dole then these people couldnt purchase what they do. Then vat receipts would be massively down. Then companies couldnt survive because nobody is buying their goods. Then companies have to let more people go. Then theres more unemplomyment. Causing many more problems on the housing and healthcare systems.

Its all very well ranting how your taxes subsidise people on the dole. Your policies would effectively put you on the dole.

Lol. Read that back to yourself!

Could they not get jobs and spend their own money on goods and services instead? And pay the vat on same.
Would that not make more sense to you?

And you made a comment about economics!!!

Auguste Comte · 24-06-2019 7:50pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

I want the money taken from my pay slip to be spent on things that will make my life better.
Jonny from Nigeria can go do 1

While your perfectly entitled to your opinion, I for one am delighted that your views are a supported by a tiny minority here.

If it was really about the money its probably corporate welfare you should be raging about.

jameshealy19 · 24-06-2019 8:34pm

People Keep on saying Gemma is all into conspiracy theories yet it was the liberal MSM who kept on pushing the narrative that Russia influenced the 2016 US Presidential election. Gemma doesn't have much influence but the MSM does.

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 8:41pm

Auguste Comte wrote: »

While your perfectly entitled to your opinion, I for one am delighted that your views are a supported by a tiny minority here.

If it was really about the money its probably corporate welfare you should be raging about.

A minority who expect the money taken from their salary to be put towards infrastructure by elected officials to make their lives better.

What is the opposite?

People happy to see their tax euro wasted yet are the first to complain about the failings of the health service or housing crisis.

What exactly do you expect?

enricoh · 24-06-2019 8:44pm

Grayson wrote: »

Statistically foreigners pay more into the system than they take out. They're on average younger and healthier than the general population. There's also lower unemployment since most come here for work. So statistically foreigners contributed more to the wage of the doctor you were waiting on than they did to the queue you are in.

The health service needs work but it's not the fault of foreigners.

1 in 3 on homeless list in dublin is foreign born, 21% non eu, 12 % eu. Iirc the last census was 15% foreign born, so they're twice as likely as paddies to be needing the aul free gaff.
Any links that prove statistically foreigners pay more into the system than take out?

Eric Cartman · 24-06-2019 8:46pm

jameshealy19 wrote: »

People Keep on saying Gemma is all into conspiracy theories yet it was the liberal MSM who kept on pushing the narrative that Russia influenced the 2016 US Presidential election. Gemma doesn't have much influence but the MSM does.

There is a massive difference between a story peddled by the democratic party and their PR machine handed to all the media outlets and engineered for maximum airtime
aaannnnddd
a crazy woman going around with a phone claiming aldi only want transgender employees, asking toy shops not to sell unicorns and claiming that george soros is behind some sort of massive plan to replace all the white people in ireland , all from her village.

Just because the MSM fall for a story that I think most can admit at this point was stretched and pumped up , does not mean Gemma is peddling the truth.

Eric Cartman · 24-06-2019 8:48pm

Grayson wrote: »

Statistically foreigners pay more into the system than they take out. They're on average younger and healthier than the general population. There's also lower unemployment since most come here for work. So statistically foreigners contributed more to the wage of the doctor you were waiting on than they did to the queue you are in.

The health service needs work but it's not the fault of foreigners.

Ive seen stats that EU immigrants in general pay their way in society, the stats get muddy when you include non EU migrants.

enricoh · 24-06-2019 8:51pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

I want the money taken from my pay slip to be spent on things that will make my life better.
Jonny from Nigeria can go do 1

Apparently if we give johny from Nigeria even more money we will get more money back from him (extra vat).
What a great concept!!!
Think wheeliebin 30 stated 74% of nigerians in ireland dont work ( from last census).

Blueshoe · 24-06-2019 8:54pm

enricoh wrote: »

Apparently if we give johny from Nigeria even more money we will get more money back from him (extra vat).
What a great concept!!!
Think wheeliebin 30 stated 74% of nigerians in ireland dont work ( from last census).

Sure they don't need to. Magic money appears once a week.
Money that could be used to tackle the 700,000 on waiting lists or put towards building more houses.

But it's ok we get the vat back on the money he spends on things for himself.
(Taxpayers money)

Eric Cartman · 24-06-2019 8:55pm

enricoh wrote: »

Apparently if we give johny from Nigeria even more money we will get more money back from him (extra vat).
What a great concept!!!
Think wheeliebin 30 stated 74% of nigerians in ireland dont work ( from last census).

This is the problem, the nigerians and roma are notorious for welfare fraud yet everyone releasing stats always bundles them together and people like the romanians and polish (who have a national shame about not working) all being employed fudges the numbers and they hide the scammers behind them saying "look, they contribute so much"

Annasopra · 24-06-2019 10:07pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Sure they don't need to. Magic money appears once a week.
Money that could be used to tackle the 700,000 on waiting lists or put towards building more houses.

But it's ok we get the vat back on the money he spends on things for himself.
(Taxpayers money)

Annasopra · 24-06-2019 10:17pm

jameshealy19 wrote: »

People Keep on saying Gemma is all into conspiracy theories yet it was the liberal MSM who kept on pushing the narrative that Russia influenced the 2016 US Presidential election. Gemma doesn't have much influence but the MSM does.

Gemma is a massive conspiracy theorist :rolleyes:

Chemtrails
Vaccines
Unicorns
Paedophiles
Communists
Globalists
Marxists
Islam
Soros
NGOs

She has conspiracies about them all

Annasopra · 24-06-2019 10:21pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Sure they don't need to. Magic money appears once a week.
Money that could be used to tackle the 700,000 on waiting lists or put towards building more houses.

But it's ok we get the vat back on the money he spends on things for himself.
(Taxpayers money)

So basically you take people off the dole - stop paying them, plough the money and expect the people on the dole wont go into extreme poverty and homelessness and make any gains from your investment worthless. I think you should goto Kilkenomics because your grasp of how economics actually works is pretty much a comedy show to be honest.

Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

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