Digital Performer

jtsuited · 21-07-2007 10:23pm

sei046 wrote:

Because Pros dont use LE!

Really? Well i happen to know the digidesign distributors for ireland and most people who would have bought hd systems say three years ago now buy LE systems due to Macs being able to provide the necessary processing power.

And I know many pros who use LE. In fact i can think of more who use LE than use logic, nuendo, and cubase put together.
If you want to look at stats (or something approaching that): the state radio broadcaster uses LE systems (and HD) as they were deemed the only system stable enough for outside recording. Lots of 'pros' there using LE.
Every professional studio that has a hd system in Ireland (which is nearly all of them), regularly work with LE sessions using HD.

Honestly man I see your point, I just think you are seriously underestimating LE.
And the general bad press about the 002 converters and pres is in my opinion a lot of internet smack talk because any respected audio engineering publication has had nothing but positive feedback.

At the AES there two months ago, the only DAWs been talked about (and remember this is a conference for professionals in the true sense) were Pro Tools (especially LE) and then a bit about Logic Pro.

You say 'i took offence to questioning'. What exactly were your questions?

Having taught Protools and having used cubase for years, I think i am in a better position to compare and contrast than someone who only a few days ago was wondering about the rudimentary characteristics of the 002.

You simply do not have enough practical experience with both to make such a black and white judgement.

sei046 · 21-07-2007 10:47pm

Digidesign are not idiots. They need a very clear line between LE and HD. LE is in no way near the power of HD... For a reason. These guys know what they are doing.

Cubase is regarded to have the best summing algos

Digidesign jumped at the opportunity to make a stable native system when people were leaving Hard disk, they made the industry standard. Pro Tools Le is not by any manner or means the INDUSTRY STANDARD. Protools HD users do not consider LE Pro Tools.

It is a sad excuse for a daw.
Consider:
Digi 001, Cheap and Cheerful, has everything you need to get you going and gives you a taste of recording
002 Improved the sound quality
003 Did next to nothing! Introduced WC. Its exactly the same box. Same pres same ADA.

Why?
If LE Was any good why would you bother with HD?

Protools enforces only PROTOOLS HARDWARE! This is a joke for anyone if your not running apogees and lynx etc. This is another reason people are boycotting Digi.

Look at the stats. LE IS A RIPOFF! Its a way to get you into digi so you move up to HD. Simple as. Unless your going to HD, DONT BOTHER!

Why not get a Daw that can let you do everything you want much easier instead of dishing out cash for a package where everything is SUB PAR instead of focusing on getting some good stuff!

So please,
Give yoursef Room to work with different hardware...
Dont limit what you do with your music with track counts(spend have the day bouncing)
Dont jump on the LE boat at time (with the 003 release) when Digi users are giving them the fingers until they cop on and sort out the hardware and remove at least a few of the limitations in their software. Im getting calls every day from guys in the last few weeks looking for advice on where to go from LE as they had hoped the 003 would sort the whole lot out.

I am only echoing thousands of engineers when i say
LE IS NOT A PRO DAW!
Look into it. Its not considered one outside of Digis own hype.
Get off this LE hangup and you will see how much more free you are with a Daw that wont tell you how it wants to work or wont tease you with what costs 50 plus grand.

Any actual pro studio using pro tools is using HD... simple as. They wouldnt get very big clients on an LE system.

Digi are not stupid! LE IS NOT SUPPOSE TO BE GOOD!

jtsuited · 21-07-2007 11:45pm

sei046 wrote:

Why?

Look into it. Its not considered one outside of Digis own hype.

oh i will. it's not like i do this professionally and have worked extensively in HD based studios!

sei046 · 21-07-2007 11:51pm

i just am finding it hard to understand why you would reccomend a daw with limits over one without any

jtsuited · 21-07-2007 11:51pm

sei046 wrote:

Protools HD users do not consider LE Pro Tools.

I do.

sei046 wrote:

LE IS NOT A PRO DAW!

And cubase sx is? You're getting silly now

sei046 wrote:

Any actual pro studio using pro tools is using HD... simple as. They wouldnt get very big clients on an LE system.

It's almost like you haven't been reading my posts when I said that

'MANY PRO TOOLS HD SESSIONS ARE DONE USING THE ORIGINAL SESSION FROM LE'. I've been there. I've seen it many times. I've done it many times. Are you listening?

The whole 003 thing was an entire farce and you are absolutely correct in what you say on it.

But can you please explain why LE is being used far more than cubase in the professional world? And i'm not going over how that is the case again. Remember my AES comments. If you were at the conference you would certainly not say that pro engineers do not consider LE a pro DAW.

This is really getting ridiculous.

sei046 · 21-07-2007 11:55pm

jtsuited wrote:

But can you please explain why LE is being used far more than cubase in the professional world?

I was trying to take you seriously the last while but thats too far man. Im not sure if there is hope for you! One day maybe you will learn!

jtsuited · 21-07-2007 11:57pm

sei046 wrote:

i just am finding it hard to understand why you would reccomend a daw with limits over one without any

because unlike you, I have had extensive experience using cubase (vst/sx), sonar, logic, nuendo, and protools hd/le. And cubase and nuendo are an absolute nightmare compared to pro tools LE and Logic. The only problem with Logic is that the AU plugins available aren't quite as up to scratch as th RTAS.
However I haven't looked into this lately so i may be wrong.

The guy came on looking for advice and you started recommending cubase SX over the other (obviously better to anyone in the business) DAWs.

Back on topic, i think the OP should go along with LE and Logic/DP. Although i really don't think there are gonna be better converters and pres in his budget (presumably) that outperform the 002/mbox/whatever significantly enough to justify a second interface.

jtsuited · 21-07-2007 11:58pm

sei046 wrote:

I was trying to take you seriously the last while but thats too far man. Im not sure if there is hope for you! One day maybe you will learn!

that's a great way not to answer a majorly important question

sei046 · 22-07-2007 12:09am

"Me: LE IS NOT A PRO DAW
Him: And Cubase Sx Is?"

That is going straight up on the "Funniest Heard" on the Pro audio forums!

I love the way you discredited Nuendo as not being a pro daw.

Back on topic? you were never on topic!

I think the guys best choice is to go with some sort of setup that wont limit him too much. That way if you decide want to try something else or are not 100% happy your Hardware wont become obselete! be careful what you buy.

Go digi, your staying digi and will have to buy new hardware or get stuck with the ridiculous prices for upgrades. Its a big monopoly so ask around on the net and whatever studios you know and they will advise you on what to do if you are going to go digi. The only real viable route (money wise and in the long term) are some of the older systems or a HD system.

I would advise Logic, DP or Cubase. Dont bother with Nuendo if your not going to use much other media

jtsuited · 22-07-2007 12:14am

and yet my question has still not been answered!

jtsuited · 22-07-2007 12:17am

sei046 wrote:

Im just looking at alternatives to my Sx rig. The computer is not running the best for me at the mo. Has a lot of glitches. It restarts for no reason quite frequently. I am running 2 gigs of ram on a 2.6 p4 which is nothing amazing but without fail i run out of juice by the time i have used the plugins etc. I am messing with the buffers and everything now but to get a nice latency i am gettin a huge loss in CPU.

Still advising on cubase sx?

sei046 · 22-07-2007 12:22am

of couse i am. Whats changed?

sei046 · 22-07-2007 12:23am

the question about more pro studios using le than SX? i didnt think it need answering because it was such a crazy comment! Your the only person i have ever met who would claim that

sei046 · 22-07-2007 12:39am

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/134440-good-bye-pro-tools-hello-cubase.html

Talk about timing lol!

jtsuited · 22-07-2007 12:41am

are you serious?
It's rare enough to see a professional studio with a windows pc in it. Maybe in the cheaper ones but the higher end studios are almost entirely mac based.
And cubase is not a quarter as popular on macs as LE is.

Maybe we've been in different studios but off the top of my head here are the studios that have/or had protools le and not cubase sx:

Windmill when it was open
All rte studios ( they do a lot of serious recording work in their with outside clients)
Grouse Lodge.

And that's just off the top of my head.
The most fequented pro audio shop in dublin does not even stock cubase. It does stock Logic, PTLE, DP and Ableton ( and of course the HD systems-the Venue, I-con, D-command, pro-control etc.)

sei046 · 22-07-2007 12:43am

of course it stocks PTLE! Everywhere has to! It sells like hot cakes!
I will actually be in grouse in a few weeks has been ages!

jtsuited · 22-07-2007 12:48am

But why doesn't it sell cubase if it's more common in pro studios?

jtsuited · 22-07-2007 12:48am

and are you going to name any pro studios with no LE and cubase SX?

sei046 · 22-07-2007 12:53am

Quinns Studio
Mark Cahill
That studio in Galway( i cant for the life of me remember the name...ran by frankie Coulohan)
Willy Muhawney
Dessie Sheerin

sei046 · 22-07-2007 12:53am

Why do those shops sell marhsall cheapo POS amps and not Diezel Amps?

jtsuited · 22-07-2007 12:56am

never heard of any of those studios. Case closed. Bye now!

sei046 · 22-07-2007 1:04am

jtsuited wrote:

never heard of any of those studios. Case closed.

lol i love it!

So, Really Macattack you prob should look elsewhere for an answer to that question aswell. To be double sure that you filter out the likes of the LE. Its grand if you picked it up second for a few bob and you were starting out or actually for pre production but in your case it seems a little nonsensical! Go for something with a bit of a lifespan in it and that wont have you by the balls!

So we are looking at DP which we all feel would be a decent enough choice,
Cubase/Nuendo but i get the feeling you would bother with half the features in Nuendo. Or Logic? They would be my top three. Ask on a few other forums and in studios if you know anyone in the business. Tell them what you want to do and they can advise you as to what they would think aswell. But as you seen fo the last while you have to be careful who you take very seriously as you could be throwing your money away!

Niall - Dahlia · 22-07-2007 3:38am

This thread makes me want to go analogue.

Maccattack · 22-07-2007 12:37pm

So just to get back on track.

By the sounds of it you are all pro Logic. Am I right. I have seen a few people using it lately. Simple Kid used it live to play backing tracks at the recent REM shows he did.

Are you recommending I buy Logic Pro( or other) INSTEAD of PTLE?

At this stage I have read enough about the 002/3 to be convinced they arent good enough for what i want. I have been down the amatuer route and want to get away from it.

I want to buy a basic system that can be built upon as finances permit.

I want to go PTLE basicly because PT is the industry standard. plus from what ive read the extras like Beat Detective and melodyne would be very useful indeed.

As I said in my original post. I was thinking maybe I should buy some high quality pre amps and convertors. Couple them with a programme like DP or Logic as a recording interface. To get the audio into the 'pooter.

From there. Transfer it all into PTLE for editing, mixing etc etc.

BUT are you guys saying that is overkill? Are you recommending I just go with Logic (or other) on its own?

sei046 · 22-07-2007 12:43pm

well i personally think that is a bit overkill. The tim eyou spend transferring would be better spent just doing it in DP or Logic!

"At this stage I have read enough about the 002/3 to be convinced they arent good enough for what i want. I have been down the amatuer route and want to get away from it."

"As I said in my original post. I was thinking maybe I should buy some high quality pre amps and convertors. Couple them with a programme like DP or Logic as a recording interface. To get the audio into the 'pooter."

You nailed it right there

sei046 · 22-07-2007 12:55pm

Logic Pro 870 Euro
Cubase 4 777 Euro

You should be able to pixk up sx 3 for fairly cheap since 4 is out. Some people are complaining that 4 is still a bit unstable but i have no idea TBH have no experience with it.
If your set on Logic its only another 100 squids

Maccattack · 22-07-2007 12:57pm

but what about the extra bits? Does Logic have an equivelant to Beat Detective and Melodyne?

These would be essential for me as i have a project at hand which needs both beat correction and tunning!

Also. With Logic there would be no need for something like Reason. Right?

sei046 · 22-07-2007 1:01pm

Whats wrong with using them programs side by side? I use melodyne all the time in cubase so im sure Logic can do it!
I know i sound like im pimping Sx but there is plenty of beat detection in that.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun04/articles/beatslicing.htm?print=yes

That is one way.
My point being that these sequencers usually have similar features under different names.

Maccattack · 22-07-2007 1:07pm

Sorry I thought they were exclusive to PT. Showing my ignorance now.

I used Cubase some years ago. Admitadly it was an old version but i just didnt like it. im sure its vaslty different now though.

From what ive seen from Logic (never used it) i like. Seems very intuitive.

sei046 · 22-07-2007 1:11pm

What version of cubase did you use? There is a massve difference, i dont even really class old cubase as a proper decent daw. Check out SX. Even Se will give you a taste of what SX is like.

You will have a massive amount of options if you go with logic or cubase or even DP with regards to plugins so you will def find what you want but Melodyne can Def be used in SX. Not sure about logic, presume so

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