Digital Performer

teamdresch

You might want to look at a Command8.
Better integration with PT, I'd expect.

cornbb

There's a free trial of Ableton Live available on the Ableton website, I'd advise giving it a go, trying out the tutorials etc. It is indeed a savage DAW, a very slick piece of programming too. However its workflow is very unique and geared towards loop-based music - although I'm sure a few Live virtuosos here would disagree with me, I think that unless you are mostly making loop-based music you might be better off getting something with a more "traditional" linear timeline-based workflow. I'll stress that Live is perfectly capable of helping you produce any sort of music, its just that it encourages you to do it in a particular "new" way. But I'd definitely encourage you to give the trial version a crack.

jtsuited

Maccattack wrote:

Hows this for a basic set up (to get started)

Macbook Pro
Mbox 2 (with PTLE)
Mackie Control Universal
Ableton Live - im very impressed.

Id have to get at least the Mbox 2 as the Mbox mini has no midi capabilities. The Mackie is useless without it.

That's a great bloody setup right there. As far as I know ProToolsLE does have a controller template for the mackie. Not sure which mackie but I'm sure it won't be too much hassle even if you do have to do a bit of midi tinkering (it's about an hours work to setup- i managed to get my midi keyboard to control pro tools after reading a sound on sound article on it. most people don't even know it can be done).

The ableton loops thing is a valid point. Although western contemporary music is characterised by it's repetiveness in general. And tbh you tend to grow out of the exclusively loop based thing after about a month.

Ableton has been the biggest product in dance music (and most other electronic music) since the release of reason. Probably much more influential than reason, as it's a sequencer, Daw, loop station, dj setup (which it is the absolute cream of the crop in), and virtual instrument all in one. And it does them all shockingly well.
The first time I saw ableton I thought 'this is it'. This is where it's all going and lo and behold 2 years later everyone from sasha to carl cox to 2 many dj's to booka shade were using it.

I really can't recommend this highly enough. Seriously designed from the creative flow perspective.
I have to admit though I have chronic ableton addiction. Apparently it's quite common!

Anywho, enough about ableton. If you did decide to go for the mini mbox (which you probably shouldn't since it looks kind of silly!), you could always just get a usb-midi interface.
They are dirt cheap, and they used to be the most important thing in home studios, unless you had one of those fancy midi-to-joystick lead thingamabobs to plug into your 64mb ram monster. Them were the days. Before your new fandangled usb keyboards!!

Sorry about that, bit of a tangent. Slightly on topic, I haven't slept in nearly two days because of bloody ableton. It's a sickness I tells ya!!:)

edit: happened to get a phone call from a reputable source there and asked him a few questions and the mackie control universal is DEFINITELY completely integrated with Pro Tools LE.

Maccattack

jtsuited wrote:

If you did decide to go for the mini mbox (which you probably shouldn't since it looks kind of silly!), you could always just get a usb-midi interface.

You know I just remembered I have a midisport 2x2. Unless you have to go through the mbox or something...


I will give the trial version a go. Im into both doing electronic music and guitar based song stuff. or a mixture of both (Pretext)

It seems Live is gearded more towards electronic but i cant see why it couldnt work well for a full band or whatever. Besides I d be coupling it with LE.

Gettin excited!

Strings.ie

Maccattack wrote:

I will be buying a recording set up next month. Want to go Pro Tools but am not happy with the quality of the mic pres and convertors on the 002/3.

So would have to buy extra pres and convertors.

Then I got to thinking that maybe I could use another application for tracking then drop it into PT for everything else.

Digital Performer looks good and there are no restrictions to which interface you can use. So rather than having to buy a digidesign interface plus extra pres and convertors i could just buy the pres i want.

Has anyone had any experience with DP?

Hi there

As previously mentioned, the 001 / 002 & 003 all have optical adat in and out's meaning you have 8 digital in's and 8 digital out's. So you could buy some better converters and connect them to the adat ports of your 002/003 and bypass the built in converters. If you only require 8 channels at any one time this is the way to go.

Digital performer is capable of quite a lot and it's really a matter of personal taste whether you use pro tools, DP, logic, cubase etc.

My question to you is why do you want to use pro tools?

Pro tools is my tool of choice. However, I first purchased pro tools and an 001 so I can edit audio recorded on my Yamaha AW4416 which I loved.

However, it soon became clear to me that moving 8 tracks of audio between the two was tedious. I'd spend ages editing in pro tools, move the audio back to the Yammy and discover another little thing that needed attention so back the audio went to pro tools and so on.

Eventually I ended up learning how to mix in pro tools and while the AW4416 sounded better it was more proactive to keep my project in pro tools all the time. The joy of being in the final stages of a mix and just being able to edit that tiny part was too convenient.

So my caution to you is while your idea is doable you might soon find you can't be bothered moving projects around between platforms.

sei046

I was wondering why you are so set on PT too lol! Not sure if i like the whole multiple daw thing! Seems like with 5k you could just go out and get a rocking set up instead of buying somethin with the intention of moving up to a more pro one. Horses for Courses i suppose!

Maccattack

Why PTLE?


I guess because it is geared toward the engineering side of things as opposed to the creativity side.

I have files from a recording i did of my band last year that will need to be edited to the sh1t house. Drums are sloppy etc etc...

From everything Ive read about PT there are a lot of features that will help fix the problems. ie. Beat Detective and Melodyne.

Its also the industry standard and I hope to build my own studio in a couple of years time whereby im sure a working knowledge of PT would be useful.

I think PT will continue to be cutting edge well into the future and feel it is wise to get on board. No?

jtsuited

duck for cover mac!!!

sei046

Melodyne is not made just for mac. Beat detective is a pretty cool jobby. Looking for its equiv for VST. with Le your not gettin on board with PT remember! if your most comfortable with LE and the limitations wont bother you and you said your going to not bother with their Hardware I suppose that system could do the job. seems like a weird way to spend 5k though lol!

sei046

i just had a bit of a brain fart. You can do the detection thing is SX with hitpoints!. Good man Me!

Maccattack

well I reckon I may just buy Live or Logic first. get to know that for a month or two before i fully decide on LE. Ill see how far that takes me. If it can do all i need it to then I may forgoe the PT idea.

im still weighing things up but so far im very impressed by what Live can do. Elastic Audio and not having to stop playback while making changes. Things like that...

Surely though there are a lot of people that use LE with the likes of Live. Why else would you get a demo copy of it when you buy LE? Digi arent tryig to get you to buy another system instead of theirs are they.

sei046

I cant see why Le wouldnt wok perfectly with live? It should work with all daws.

And your totally against the Apogee,Motu, Full Daw route ye? Is there something that makes it out of the question?

It just seems like your buying a lot of middle ground stuff when with 5k i would just buy less and better stuff? So that if you ever do want to move up to something different, It certainly wont be because your gear held you back!

Maccattack

sei046 wrote:

I cant see why Le wouldnt wok perfectly with live?

thats my point. By giving you a demo copy of Live I reckn Digi are saying 'Here try this aswell. We recommend you use it alongside LE'.

I guess im trying to stay away from project studio gear as much as possible. Like i said earlier I dont believe the 002/3 are good enough. The motu 8 pre isnt either.

This way I can have the software i want AND the hardware I want.

Apogee dont make a DAW do they??

sei046

Well im sure your doing your reasearch anyway and now the possible pitfalls etc! If your looking to jump on the PT wagon i wouldnt do it the way you plan on it. Buying a HD rig will mean almost buying from scratch again as your prob better off just buying a whole integrated system. So bare in mind that this will be one rig, Hd will be another...The 1st probably wont evolve in the last.

My Chain with 5k would be
Top Mic
Top Pre
Top Soundcard
Full Featured Daw
Nice Mixer

and i would prob also be buying second hand to get an even more smoking rig!

Maccattack

sei046 wrote:

My Chain with 5k would be
Top Mic
Top Pre
Top Soundcard
Full Featured Daw
Nice Mixer
and i would prob also be buying second hand to get an even more smoking rig!

OK. If you had 5k to spend what would YOU get? Leaving out the mic as I have that covered.

jtsuited

ok just to clear up the ableton and pt thing, as far as i know (i'm 95% sure) ableton is owned (technically) by m-audio. Who in turn are owned by Avid who also happen to own Digidesign. That's why i would predict PTLE won't upgrade the midi capabilities and will continue to do this ableton lite (or digidesign ableton or some other thing like that).

Digidesign don't view ableton as a competitor and they are correct. For audio editing PTLE really is top dog. And using ableton with PTLE is really a great choice. Also due to the fact that ableton are owned (in a roundabout way i think), you are guaranteed no compatibility problems in the future.

sei046

Lynx L22 699 new
Pre? Have no idea where to start lol. So many CHOICES!
Logic/SX
I would get a llittle router desk like an 8 channel with lots of routing and then something like a Tascam Us2400.


I would need a few days to be MY chain together let alone yours

Neurojazz

I can't belivve u kids are still fighting.

Get your heads out of your a** and go write some f******g music...

;P

I don't mind any software as long as it works... i found that Digidesign have some rather unethical tactics in regards to their aquisition of code... I won't go into mud slinging but i find that i'd rather support companies who firmly base their business around the musicians... spectrasonics, cubase & SSL are some of my personal faves - having owned stupid amounts of hardware software i setteled down with what works for me... It must be a different mindset to use logic - the music comes out the end no different really.

If you want to get really anal about things maybe you should look at the creative time you waste arguing and not bringing soulful music to the world.
Rant.end

sei046

Neuro we are not arguing lol

Maccattack

Strings.ie wrote:

As previously mentioned, the 001 / 002 & 003 all have optical adat in and out's meaning you have 8 digital in's and 8 digital out's. So you could buy some better converters and connect them to the adat ports of your 002/003 and bypass the built in converters. If you only require 8 channels at any one time this is the way to go.

is adat preferable to spdif? im thinking of getting an mbox instead of a 002 but it only has spdif

Strings.ie

Maccattack wrote:

is adat preferable to spdif? im thinking of getting an mbox instead of a 002 but it only has spdif

Spdif is just a digital stereo connection. Adat can handle 8 individual tracks at 24bit/48khz.

Maccattack

so does that mean i can add extra pre's and convertors with an mbox?

Niall - Dahlia

You can use an extra dual channel pre with the MBox through SPDIF.

You could use a unit with up to 8 mono pre's through an ADAT connection (like the 002 has), although it's reduced to 4 at higher sampling rates.

Maccattack

so maybe an mbox isnt a great idea for future expansion (?)

like i said im trying to get a basic set up that can grow into a pro quality system as money permits (without having to go the HD route).

at the moment all i need is 2 channels of pro quality i/o. but i want to be able to expand that to 8 or 16 down the track.

Niall - Dahlia

Maccattack wrote:

so maybe an mbox isnt a great idea for future expansion (?)

like i said im trying to get a basic set up that can grow into a pro quality system as money permits (without having to go the HD route).

at the moment all i need is 2 channels of pro quality i/o. but i want to be able to expand that to 8 or 16 down the track.

No, the MBox is definitely not a good idea for future expansion. 2 "pro quality" channels as you put it is all you can have. The MBox is for learning Pro Tools (and becoming dependent on it...guilty as charged!)

In saying that though the 002/003 isn't exactly limitlessly expandable either, you can use ADAT and SPDIF simultaneously allowing for a total of 10 external preamps bypassing the 002 convertors, but that's the max if you're insistent about avoiding the 002's converters (a good idea).

Maybe when you feel you need to make the step up to 16+ tracks you'll be in a position to consider a HD system, in which case a 002 will do you fine. Maybe by that time Digidesign will have released their next "must have to be pro" system and the HD interfaces will take a tumble in price!

Strings.ie

Niall - Dahlia wrote:

No, the MBox is definitely not a good idea for future expansion. 2 "pro quality" channels as you put it is all you can have. The MBox is for learning Pro Tools (and becoming dependent on it...guilty as charged!)

In saying that though the 002/003 isn't exactly limitlessly expandable either, you can use ADAT and SPDIF simultaneously allowing for a total of 10 external preamps bypassing the 002 convertors, but that's the max if you're insistent about avoiding the 002's converters (a good idea).

Maybe when you feel you need to make the step up to 16+ tracks you'll be in a position to consider a HD system, in which case a 002 will do you fine. Maybe by that time Digidesign will have released their next "must have to be pro" system and the HD interfaces will take a tumble in price!

When the 003 came there was a lot of moaning at the digi forums, people were very disappointed in that the 003 was just a rebranded 002 with very little in the way of new features. Anyway, I recall a Digi staff member posting on the discussion and he pretty much hinted that digi were working on a mid range system.

Don't hold your breath though, I've been waiting for over 4 years for digi to deliver.

Niall - Dahlia

Strings.ie wrote:

When the 003 came there was a lot of moaning at the digi forums, people were very disappointed in that the 003 was just a rebranded 002 with very little in the way of new features. Anyway, I recall a Digi staff member posting on the discussion and he pretty much hinted that digi were working on a mid range system.

It's a tricky one to call, but I don't see a midrange PT interface being released anytime soon. A midrange system would probably be a bad business move for Digidesign, and they are a business at the end of the day. They wanna shift their HD systems, and a midrange system would eat into HD sales, they don't want to give a middle ground. I think the 003 was proof of that. No reason why it couldn't have been the midrange system everybody was looking for, but Digidesign decided against it.

Interestingly enough I see more and more threads about people wondering if it's a good idea to get a HD system now, or whether there'll be a new flagship product line they should wait for. But I don't really see that happening any time soon either. But who knows. *cue Digidesign press release announcing new midrange system and uber-HD 768kHz/32-bit system*

And the award for most off-topic thread on boards.ie goes toooo...

Strings.ie

Niall - Dahlia wrote:

It's a tricky one to call, but I don't see a midrange PT interface being released anytime soon. A midrange system would probably be a bad business move for Digidesign, and they are a business at the end of the day. They wanna shift their HD systems, and a midrange system would eat into HD sales, they don't want to give a middle ground. I think the 003 was proof of that. No reason why it couldn't have been the midrange system everybody was looking for, but Digidesign decided against it.

Interestingly enough I see more and more threads about people wondering if it's a good idea to get a HD system now, or whether there'll be a new flagship product line they should wait for. But I don't really see that happening any time soon either. But who knows. *cue Digidesign press release announcing new midrange system and uber-HD 768kHz/32-bit system*

And the award for most off-topic thread on boards.ie goes toooo...

Digi's position is indeed tricky but while they dominate the pro end of the market they must be loosing massive sales at the semi pro end of the market.

I mean, for the same money as a 003 you could have a much more powerful and flexible system whether it's based around logic, DP or whatever. The hardware in/out limitations that digi impose on the LE range must and does put a lot of people off.

Pro Tools as a tool is wonderful. I love working with it but it's so frustrating that I'm expected to pay a minimum of €10,000 to just allow me to have flexible in & out options. The simple solution for digi would be to release additional hardware add-ons for the Le range. It could still be limited to say 24 in's / 8 outs and sample rates remain no higher than 96khz. Perhaps leave track count limited too.

It will certainly be interesting to watch their next move, especially when they do replace HD.

cornbb

I've heard that Apple are planning a major revamp of Logic soon in order to directly compete with Pro Tools. Sounds like a massive uphill struggle, given PT's monopoloy over pretty much every pro studio. Will be interesting to see how they attempt to do this.

condra

This thread has gone on for so long but it seems many of you aren't using logic and reason when putting forward your points.

In my opinion, in a few years time, all digital performers will be using Cycleton Live 74 as their main pro tool.