Ireland is a pretend football country

Did you smash it · 17-01-2021 11:16pm

Brian? wrote: »

We have 3 massive competing organisations: soccer, GAA and Rugby. I don’t think any other country our size has that level of diversity at all.

Croatia for one and there would be plenty of others has a much greater level of diversity in sports

old_aussie · 17-01-2021 11:18pm

Hyperbollix wrote: »

I'm not sure how you could expect anything else. We are an island of 5 million, located right beside one of the biggest football countries in the world,

New Zealand with a population of 5 million have Eden Park with seating for 50,000. They actually have backs on the chairs so people can sit comfortably.

Sob, poor old Ireland.

Kermit.de.frog · 17-01-2021 11:18pm

Brian? wrote: »

We have 3 massive competing organisations: soccer, GAA and Rugby. I don’t think any other country our size has that level of diversity at all.

Cricket added to the list now in recent years.

On the one hand it's good to have diversity.

On the other they take talent from each other which means none will ever reach full potential.

Look at New Zealand and rugby. Everyone marvels at how great they are - that's pretty damn easy when it's easily the main sport there. None other comes close.

Here we don't have a main sport really. They are all on similar level eating each other.

Jinglejangle69 · 17-01-2021 11:19pm

Bob Marley, Mohammed Ali, Pele, Zidane all played in Dalymount.

Bit of useless information for a Sunday night.

Brian? · 17-01-2021 11:20pm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Croatia for one and there would be plenty of others has a much greater level of diversity in sports

Not really. We have all of those sports here as well. We have athletics, swimming, sailing, tennis, boxing etc etc too.

The Croat FA dwarves the next biggest association. The FAI doesn’t.

Brian? · 17-01-2021 11:21pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Cricket added to the list now in recent years.

On the one hand it's good to have diversity.

On the other they take talent from each other which means none will ever reach full potential.

Look at New Zealand and rugby. Everyone marvels at how great they are - that's pretty damn easy when it's easily the main sport there. None other comes close.

Here we don't have a main sport really. They are all on similar level eating each other.

And what harm? We have great sport to watch all year round.

DraftDodger · 17-01-2021 11:21pm

Hyperbollix wrote: »

I'm not sure how you could expect anything else. We are an island of 5 million, located right beside one of the biggest football countries in the world, where all of our top talent, not to mention all our journeymen can travel to, to make a very decent living. We are also a top tier rugby nation and we have our own national sports which command huge participation, funding and interest from the public.

The Charlton/McCarthy years were a stroke of luck. A golden generation of footballers from this island and Britain which came about because of societal circumstances aka "poverty = good players"
If we want to repeat that success from now on, the FAI is going to have to get positively Germanic in its organizational and long tern planning abilities.

Yeah.

Top tier rugby nation

There are about what 20 countries in the world playing rugby and we've never even reached a world cup final. We are top tier at patting ourselves on the back.

Did you smash it · 17-01-2021 11:22pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Look at New Zealand and rugby. Everyone marvels at how great they are - that's pretty damn easy when it's easily the main sport there.

Ireland have won 31 Olympic medals in their history, NZ have won 117.

A terrible example. NZ are the best at rugby and great at a whole gamut of other sports and far more diverse sports than Ireland.

dxhound2005 · 17-01-2021 11:22pm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Denmark population is 5.8 million. The republic’s is 4.9 million.

The republic has pretty much first choice on Catholics in Northern Ireland and second choice on English lads with Irish grandparents so 4.9 million is actually a far lower figure than what it really is.

In terms of uefa club coefficient here is Ireland with the countries around them

Luxembourg

Bosnia and Herzegovina

Republic of Ireland

North Macedonia

Armenia

We are small timers and small time. Which is fine if we accept that but then accept that and let’s not carry on that the Irish football scene is anything other than a bunch of small timers.

National team rankings.

Ireland 42
NI 45
Bosnia 55
N Macedonia 65
Luxembourg 98
Armenia 99

Our clubs do not have first choice on Catholics from the North.

Did you smash it · 17-01-2021 11:25pm

Brian? wrote: »

Not really. We have all of those sports here as well. We have athletics, swimming, sailing, tennis, boxing etc etc too.

The Croat FA dwarves the next biggest association. The FAI doesn’t.

We have winter sports do we? We have an Olympic handball team? We have basketball and volleyball and go to the world cups in them? We have tennis players in grand slams do we?

Brian? · 17-01-2021 11:25pm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Ireland have won 31 Olympic medals in their history, NZ have won 117.

A terrible example. NZ are the best at rugby and great at a whole gamut of other sports and far more diverse sports than Ireland.

It’s the GAA. Until we get hurling into the Olympics we’re at a severe disadvantage

Did you smash it · 17-01-2021 11:26pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

National team rankings.

Ireland 42
NI 45
Bosnia 55
N Macedonia 65
Luxembourg 98
Armenia 99

Our clubs do not have first choice on Catholics from the North.

Uefa club coefficient rankings

Strumms · 17-01-2021 11:26pm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Bob Marley, Mohammed Ali, Pele, Zidane all played in Dalymount.

Bit of useless information for a Sunday night.

Brian? · 17-01-2021 11:27pm

Did you smash it wrote: »

We have winter sports do we? We have an Olympic handball team? We have basketball and volleyball and go to the world cups in them? We have tennis players in grand slams do we?

Calm yourself there.

So what’s your explanation to why we’re ****e at everything? Mine is GAA and Rugby taking so many athletes.

dxhound2005 · 17-01-2021 11:28pm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Uefa club coefficient rankings

Which you linked to our national team having players from the North and England wanting to play for us. You are mixing up two different things.

Did you smash it · 17-01-2021 11:31pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Which you linked to our national team having players from the North and England wanting to play for us. You are mixing up two different things.

I’m saying Irish football is small time and our fans and media lie to themselves about what we should be achieving

The north and England thing was a point about populations being comparable to Denmark which was clear enough I would have thought.

fryup · 17-01-2021 11:32pm

bring back Pat Grace's famous fried chicken League

Did you smash it · 17-01-2021 11:33pm

Brian? wrote: »

Calm yourself there.

So what’s your explanation to why we’re ****e at everything? Mine is GAA and Rugby taking so many athletes.

Under investment from the public sector as illustrated in post 1.

GAA is a big part of it aswell I accept but there are other factors such as Irish people paying money to England to participate as English football club fans.

Brian? · 17-01-2021 11:36pm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Under investment from the public sector as illustrated in post 1.

GAA is a big part of it aswell I accept but there are other factors such as Irish people paying football to England to participate as English football club fans.

Underinvestment? Why invest in it at all? It’s a p professional sport that should invest in itself to be honest. Same with the IRFU.

Money should only go to grassroots football.

dxhound2005 · 17-01-2021 11:36pm

Did you smash it wrote: »

I’m saying Irish football is small time and our fans and media lie to themselves about what we should be achieving

The north and England thing was a point about populations being comparable to Denmark which was clear enough I would have thought.

And our national team has used those resources to good effect since 1988. You tried to associate them with our club co-efficient, which is a totally wrong comparison.

upandcumming · 17-01-2021 11:40pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Well it is, there’s not another ground compares at all.

Longford Town's stadium certainly does, and one of the few clubs that own their ground.

Did you smash it · 17-01-2021 11:40pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And our national team has used those resources to good effect since 1988. You tried to associate them with our club co-efficient, which is a totally wrong comparison.

It’s all part of the Irish football scene. Our clubs are below Luxembourg. You seem to think I’m just talking about the international senior men’s side only.

You saw my first post was about Dalymount?

OneEightSeven · 17-01-2021 11:41pm

Smee_Again wrote: »

Of course it does, look at the difference in facilities between most GAA/Rugby clubs and soccer clubs, there’s money there but the FAI just squander it.

There may not be Premier League type money but there’s potential for more growth.

Smee_Again wrote: »

The biggest barrier to football succeeding in Ireland is the FAI, not the GAA.

A popular scapegoat, but blaming the FAI just displays the ignorance of how football is organised across the world. Except for France, whose football association run a youth academy, it's up to the club's academies to develop players.

FAs don't give money to clubs or build stadiums and pitches like the GAA do. The players who helped Croatia reach the World Cup Final in 2018 were developed by mostly Croatians teams. FAs just organise football tournaments for youth teams spend little time training them. The training is up the clubs they play for.

The problem is two-fold:

1. The GAA. Ireland's population is too small to have this much sports diversity. We also have a lot of one-off houses thanks to Fianna Fail's laissez-faire policy on planning permission and the GAA hold the monopoly over the youth in our countryside townlands. Football clubs are located in towns, while GAA clubs can be found everywhere. In my area, kids from Oldtown and Garristown used to get their parents to drive them to Ashbourne to play for Ashbourne United, but if the wanted to play GAA, there are GAA clubs in both Garristown and Oldtown.

The decline of our national team seems to coincide with the rise of Dublin GAA. Can't be a coincidence.

https://www.statista.com/chart/14329/global-interest-in-football/

Spain, Portugal and Italy rank the highest in Europe for football and those countries produce buckets of talent. Sure, look at America, massive population and their players are rubbish. Participation rates are definitely a factor.

2. The popularity of English football in Ireland. Most football fans in Ireland are Premier League fans. This deprives our LOI teams of money to build facilities for youth teams.

Did you smash it · 17-01-2021 11:41pm

Brian? wrote: »

Underinvestment? Why invest in it at all? It’s a p professional sport that should invest in itself to be honest. Same with the IRFU.

Money should only go to grassroots football.

Ok, some countries don’t see it that way. We see it another way and our international sports scene is small time outside of horse racing.

dxhound2005 · 17-01-2021 11:45pm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Our clubs are below Luxembourg.

I don't understand that. Countries are not ranked by some sort of aggregation of their individual clubs coefficients. And anyway Dundalk are ranked above the top ranked Luxembourg club.

Did you smash it · 17-01-2021 11:49pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't understand that. Countries are not ranked by some sort of aggregation of their individual clubs coefficients. And anyway Dundalk are ranked above the top ranked Luxembourg club.

Ireland are ranked below Luxembourg on their clubs performance in international uefa competitions.

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2021

fryup · 17-01-2021 11:54pm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Bob Marley, Mohammed Ali, Pele, Zidane all played in Dalymount.

Bit of useless information for a Sunday night.

Ali was Croke Park

irishguitarlad · 17-01-2021 11:59pm

Another factor is that Irish footballers need to expand their horizons a bit and should start learning a few languages. If they are going to be relying on premier league clubs to get their big break they are going to be waiting. Much better to move to the Belgian, Dutch, Portuguese or Austrian league and gain experience there. Might gain some European cup experience as well.

dxhound2005 · 18-01-2021 12:01am

Did you smash it wrote: »

Ireland are ranked below Luxembourg on their clubs performance in international uefa competitions.

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2021

And Liechtenstein population 38,000 are ranked above Luxembourg.

chrissb8 · 18-01-2021 12:03am

It's funny. Ireland is ruled by GAA and that's fine, but then are always shocked at how bad the national football/soccer team is. What do you expect when it gets nowhere near the investment of GAA. Which is great, as Ireland has its own cultural heritage through GAA and allows the nation to rally with pride around a true Irish created institution where so many other aspects of Irish culture are marginalised or seen as just afterthoughts.

But in that, there has to be an acceptance that soccer is huge here in Ireland and warrants much more investment. I love the sport and have been playing it since I was a kid all the way up until now, even have a ball I'll just dribble around the house when I'm bored.

The pitches are a state, the facilities are sparse, not enough all-weather/indoor pitches outside of Dublin. No real incentive to invest in grassroots level or improve the quality of the LOI across all areas.

The state of football pitches being flooded, filled with sand, bobbly surfaces does nothing for no one in terms of wanting to actually play a game of football i.e. play on the ground and pass the ball without it jumping 2 feet in the air or just stopping completely. Something that was the norm for me playing and ultimately turned me off waking up on a cold Sunday to go play on. It wasn't football, just hoofing.

No one is looking for immaculate Old Trafford turf, but if there were more of the above (all-weather) pitches it would mean Ireland's s**** weather wouldn't be such an issue. Why the season is over winter and not spring/summer has always been a weird one for me.

Then FAI sponsored development centres, with dedicated full-time staff would be a huge help, as it stands, there's really only one. There are real football people in Ireland with huge passion who are an untapped resource, but sadly they will have to make do with what's been given to them.

The level people want Ireland to reach in football will never be achieved unless there's a proper investment from the ground up. But don't put your hands on your head when Ireland come crashing out hard in the next finals they get to. All you have to do is look around and realise why.

Did you smash it · 18-01-2021 12:05am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And Liechtenstein population 38,000 are ranked above Luxembourg.

I think that’s a bit of a statisical freak if I remember correctly for an obscure reason but it’s rather irrelevant anyway to the discussion.

chrissb8 · 18-01-2021 12:14am

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Another factor is that Irish footballers need to expand their horizons a bit and should start learning a few languages. If they are going to be relying on premier league clubs to get their big break they are going to be waiting. Much better to move to the Belgian, Dutch, Portuguese or Austrian league and gain experience there. Might gain some European cup experience as well.

This. 100% this. Tunnel vision of making it in England narrows the view of what it means to make it. Those countries you mention have quality teams and players in them who even sometimes amass a few shock defeats to top opposition in European competitions.

Very limiting to stop yourself because of something like a language. If some players in Europe can speak 5 languages then it's not much to ask.

Lost Ormond · 18-01-2021 12:17am

OneEightSeven wrote: »

A popular scapegoat, but blaming the FAI just displays the ignorance of how football is organised across the world. Except for France, whose football association run a youth academy, it's up to the club's academies to develop players.

FAs don't give money to clubs or build stadiums and pitches like the GAA do. The players who helped Croatia reach the World Cup Final in 2018 were developed by mostly Croatians teams. FAs just organise football tournaments for youth teams spend little time training them. The training is up the clubs they play for.

The problem is two-fold:

1. The GAA. Ireland's population is too small to have this much sports diversity. We also have a lot of one-off houses thanks to Fianna Fail's laissez-faire policy on planning permission and the GAA hold the monopoly over the youth in our countryside townlands. Football clubs are located in towns, while GAA clubs can be found everywhere. In my area, kids from Oldtown and Garristown used to get their parents to drive them to Ashbourne to play for Ashbourne United, but if the wanted to play GAA, there are GAA clubs in both Garristown and Oldtown.

The decline of our national team seems to coincide with the rise of Dublin GAA. Can't be a coincidence.

https://www.statista.com/chart/14329/global-interest-in-football/

Spain, Portugal and Italy rank the highest in Europe for football and those countries produce buckets of talent. Sure, look at America, massive population and their players are rubbish. Participation rates are definitely a factor.

2. The popularity of English football in Ireland. Most football fans in Ireland are Premier League fans. This deprives our LOI teams of money to build facilities for youth teams.

I think New Zealand, Iceland, many other examples show countries are not too small to have a diverse number of sports played to a high level.
There is soccer clubs in a lot more than the towns,

tastyt · 18-01-2021 12:48am

The FAI need to geographically spread the game . Kerry , Clare , Tipp , Mayo , Kilkenny, Kildare , all big populations with no team to identify with yet every young kid in those places and more can support and identify with their GAA heroes or Munster/Leinster/ Connaught. They feel those teams represent them and soccer is more of a tv show and they will shout for Ireland in a big game obviously.

Yes there has been regional teams before and they have gone to the wall because of lack of support but they were never set up in the communities properly, the way Sligo Rovers has been .

No excuses , proper investment in youth structures , get ingrained in the community, in the schools and don’t just have a group of players training in Dublin and coming down to play a game.

It all takes money and hard work , there’s no easy way and it would take years to build an identity in these counties. It’s a hard way but it’s the only way .

If football just sticks to the areas it always has well it will always be mediocre with a few lucky years and big international tournaments every few decades

Greyfox · 18-01-2021 12:54am

chrissb8 wrote: »

Very limiting to stop yourself because of something like a language. If some players in Europe can speak 5 languages then it's not much to ask.

Learning languages is very time consuming and something to do only after youve signed a contract.

Lost Ormond · 18-01-2021 1:20am

tastyt wrote: »

The FAI need to geographically spread the game. Kerry, Clare, Tipp, Mayo, Kilkenny, Kildare, all big populations with no team to identify with yet every young kid in those places and more can support and identify with their GAA heroes or Munster/Leinster/ Connaught. They feel those teams represent them and soccer is more of a tv show and they will shout for Ireland in a big game obviously.

Yes there has been regional teams before and they have gone to the wall because of lack of support but they were never set up in the communities properly, the way Sligo Rovers has been .

No excuses, proper investment in youth structures, get ingrained in the community, in the schools and don’t just have a group of players training in Dublin and coming down to play a game.

It all takes money and hard work, there’s no easy way and it would take years to build an identity in these counties. It’s a hard way but it’s the only way .

If football just sticks to the areas it always has well it will always be mediocre with a few lucky years and big international tournaments every few decades

Tipp doesnt have base or support for a team at that level. Clonmel would be only place for a team and there wouldnt be the base to support a team.
Clare so close to Limerick and then Galway not far either. Wouldnt really be that suitable for a team.

An Ri rua · 18-01-2021 1:26am

whisky_galore wrote: »

White water rafting is our national sport, that's why.

It is very prescient of the powers that be to be implementing this investment and getting our people ready. Strategically brilliant.

The jury was out on 2020, but now, now we're definitely up sh1t creek without a paddle.

Pull like a dog there Mīcheál...

Thelonious Monk · 18-01-2021 1:33am

I can't remember us ever having such a poor team as we have now either which is depressing. Not one player doing well at a top team now.

Strumms · 18-01-2021 3:30am

tastyt wrote: »

The FAI need to geographically spread the game . Kerry , Clare , Tipp , Mayo , Kilkenny, Kildare , all big populations with no team to identify with yet every young kid in those places and more can support and identify with their GAA heroes or Munster/Leinster/ Connaught. They feel those teams represent them and soccer is more of a tv show and they will shout for Ireland in a big game obviously.

Yes there has been regional teams before and they have gone to the wall because of lack of support but they were never set up in the communities properly, the way Sligo Rovers has been .

No excuses , proper investment in youth structures , get ingrained in the community, in the schools and don’t just have a group of players training in Dublin and coming down to play a game.

It all takes money and hard work , there’s no easy way and it would take years to build an identity in these counties. It’s a hard way but it’s the only way .

If football just sticks to the areas it always has well it will always be mediocre with a few lucky years and big international tournaments every few decades

The are clubs in most major population centers though.

Dublin : Bohs, Shels, Rovers, Pats,

Cork : Cork City

Limerick : Limerick FC

Kilkenny : Kilkenny City

Donegal : Finn Harps

Louth : Dundalk, Drogheda

Galway : Galway United

Waterford : Waterford United

Sligo : Sligo Rovers

The cities or population centers you’ve mentioned, should it be up to the FAI ? Or people on the ground... to sort out teams and be successful.

pgj2015 · 18-01-2021 9:53am

Greyfox wrote: »

Learning languages is very time consuming and something to do only after youve signed a contract.

Especially for a nation who learn their own native language from the age of 4 to 18 and which the majority still cant string a sentence together. Irish people in my experience are terrible at learning a new language.

pgj2015 · 18-01-2021 10:03am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I can't remember us ever having such a poor team as we have now either which is depressing. Not one player doing well at a top team now.

caoimhin kelleher at liverpool.

Thelonious Monk · 18-01-2021 10:04am

pgj2015 wrote: »

Especially for a nation who learn their own native language from the age of 4 to 18 and which the majority still cant string a sentence together. Irish people in my experience are terrible at learning a new language.

So is every English speaking country tbf. Why would you bother when the world language is English and all popular culture is in English? You can see why it's so attractive to learn for non English speakers.
I've been learning Spanish for years, it's bloody difficult to get to a good level.

18-01-2021 10:04am

pgj2015 wrote: »

caoimhin kelleher at liverpool.

He might never see a game for them again outside the league cup if Becker stays fit.

Thelonious Monk · 18-01-2021 10:05am

pgj2015 wrote: »

caoimhin kelleher at liverpool.

he's not playing!

pgj2015 · 18-01-2021 10:06am

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

He might never see a game for them again outside the league cup if Becker stays fit.

Thats the kind of optimism we need lol.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-01-2021 10:15am

Ireland is very poor at football, but people like watching and following football, so where’s the problem?

Irish cricket fans watch Ireland and they don’t expect to win everything, but it doesn’t mean they get upset about it. They follow, they support, they watch they cheer and they enjoy.

Why do Irish football fans have such unrealistic expectations? I think it’s because people follow football not because they look all around and pick foot bass their favourite sports - they start supporting football because everyone else supports it. How many people support Liverpool because their uncle worked in Liverpool in the 80s and brought them home a jersey?

I have English friends who support the local team through thick and thin. They’re always plotting ways for their club to climb the 10 leagues to the premiership. It’s more like supporting the local GAA team. They don’t expect that it’s going to win the club championship, but they support them
Through thick and thin.

I can’t think of anything more lonely than supporting a premiership club and having absolutely no real attachments to that club. I think the vast majority of football fans start supporting football before they even think about it. They are always p1ssed off by it and they don’t realise it’s because they don’t really like football.

18-01-2021 10:18am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ireland is very poor at football, but people like watching and following football, so where’s the problem?

Irish cricket fans watch Ireland and try don’t expect to win everything, but it doesn’t mean they get upset about it. They follow, they support, they watch they cheer and they enjoy.

Why do Irish football fans have such unrealistic expectations?

Spoiled in a completely different era. There’s no realism towards the international side these days.

Thelonious Monk · 18-01-2021 10:20am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Why do Irish football fans have such unrealistic expectations?

I would be happy if we had 2 or 3 decent players, that can make all the difference and I don't think it's unrealistic. Scotland have a few excellent players now and I'm envious after them being in the doldrums for so long. Tierney, McGinn, McTominay, Robertson, they could be the spine of a very good team. We've been lauding some of our youth coming through now but they never seem to make it if they're Irish.

pgj2015 · 18-01-2021 10:22am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ireland is very poor at football, but people like watching and following football, so where’s the problem?

Irish cricket fans watch Ireland and try don’t expect to win everything, but it doesn’t mean they get upset about it. They follow, they support, they watch they cheer and they enjoy.

Why do Irish football fans have such unrealistic expectations?

some have unrealistic expectations and forget its not 1994 anymore but most don't, some have even given up watching them, these are the guys who are big man u and liverpool fans. These are the kind of guys who you couldnt pay to go to a LOI match. I agree with a previous poster, they arent real football people. Then you have Irish people who say they support liverpool or man u, might even wear the jersey but would struggle to name a few players and wouldnt even know the results of their teams games that were on a few days before.

Thelonious Monk · 18-01-2021 10:33am

Valentina Handsome Oxygen wrote: »

On LOI. I'm obviously bias as a fan/season ticket holder but there is definitely potential to grow the league here but calling out "bar stoolers" and the likes needs to stop.

Yeah it's silly really calling people out for being particular types of football fans, I mean it's only a stupid game at the end of the day. During a normal season I go to maybe 4 Bohs games a year, and have done most of my life when I've been living in Ireland. If we could even get a few more like me going to a few games a season it would make a big difference.
There really is nothing like it though on a Friday night.

Ireland is a pretend football country

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