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Ireland is a pretend football country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,274 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    cms88 wrote: »
    While it's easy to blame the FAI etc, and must of it is warranted, for everything they can't be fully blamed.

    It's not the FAIs fault Irish people would rather support teams in England rather than Ireland. Now there's nothing wrong with it but if the same popele complain about the LOI being where it is because if the FAI they really can't.

    The whole thing of Irish people who support teams in England always interests me. Why do people think it is the case? In some cases people don;t have a LOI club near to them and there's not much they can do. But for example i know of people from Cork who would live no more than 5 minutes from Turners Cross yet would never have been to a Cork City game bar when they might be playing the Liverpool U23 team or something like that.




    A lot of Irish people have an inferiority complex, they think everything English is better than the Irish equivalent. I always prefer Irish versions of things, like I watched the premiership on RTE over match of the day, I watch the Irish dragons den over the one on BBC, same with gogglebox. But some Irish people are the opposite, everything Irish they run down. MY friend who was a west brit even started using english slang and trying to talk like an English person on hoiliday in spain once.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    MY friend who was a west brit even started using english slang and trying to talk like an English person on hoiliday in spain once.

    disgraceful


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    I don’t know of any who qualified for denmark on the granny rule, do you?

    why would i ? but i doubt such a rule is limited to this country


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,656 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Surely there are countries out there with a similar population size that do have good from grassroots up

    Iceland would be the one to comes to mind, they have only a population of 330,000 yet they beat England at the Euros in 2016 and they have players peppered all over top leagues in Europe. It didnt happen by accident either, the Icelandic government deliberately targeted football as a sport they wanted the country to do well in. So they funded the training of hundreds of coaches to the highest levels, they now have 400 coaches with a UEFA B license and a further 150 with a UEFA A license, all in a country with a population of Connaught. Its said that every child in Iceland now has access to top level football coaching and their success stems from that. Plus they did all of this while their economy was ravaged by the 2010 recession.

    As for the white water rafting facility for 25m quid it seems a waste of money to me. White water rafting is a leisure activity, its not a sport in any real sense. Those who are serious about it go to Nepal, New Zealand and Colorado anyway where you get miles of rivers with fast moving rapids instead of a course that is barely 100 metres long as is planned in the Docklands. Serious kayakers here use routes on the rivers like Stackallen to Slane or Leixlip to Islandbridge where they have loads of weirs and rapids instead of just 100 metres of them. And from what I can see the facility proposed is not going to be built to Olympic standard because it is not long enough. So our few Olympic standard kayakers will have to train abroad anyway.

    One sport that 25m euro would be far better spent on is to finally give Ireland its first ever indoor velodrome. Its an absolute scandal that a velodrome has never been built in a country that has had two winners of the Tour de France. Look at what Team GB did before the 2012 Olympics, they deliberately targeted indoor cycling as a source of medals and cleaned up as a result. No reason Ireland cannot emulate that but decades after a velodrome has been promised it still hasnt been delivered.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭Cerveza


    They down the saloon boasting of how we won and we have a great team and we should have played better and between them all they could hardly spell football let alone kick one. Bunch of idiots in their tracksuits.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Cricket added to the list now in recent years.

    On the one hand it's good to have diversity.

    On the other they take talent from each other which means none will ever reach full potential.

    Look at New Zealand and rugby. Everyone marvels at how great they are - that's pretty damn easy when it's easily the main sport there. None other comes close.

    Here we don't have a main sport really. They are all on similar level eating each other.

    New Zealand is a far sportier country than Ireland , always has been , their olympic medal tally down the years dwarfs ours


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    The one thing I noticed about league of Ireland was the amount of dubs playing with teams all over the country , that’s where the GAA works better , all the players on county teams are local and people know them personally .
    How many of the Dundalk soccer team are from Louth or how many of the Galway soccer team are from Galway ?
    I don’t know but it’s strange to hear the cork or Longford captain talking with a strong dublin accent


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,274 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Exactly, all the premier league teams have local lads as captains. I dont think.


    Being at a live LOI game is 100 times more enjoyable in my eyes than watching man u v liverpool on TV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    Especially for a nation who learn their own native language from the age of 4 to 18 and which the majority still cant string a sentence together. Irish people in my experience are terrible at learning a new language.

    second only to the brits in terms of awfulness


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    New Zealand is a far sportier country than Ireland , always has been , their olympic medal tally down the years dwarfs ours


    Don't think that's a fair comparison. Ireland's main sports have been soccer and gaelic.

    We've been consistently far higher in the soccer world rankings than New Zealand and our National Sports happen to be sports that no other country plays so it's impossible to achieve international success.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭randd1


    Until there is the same passion for soccer as there is for hurling and Gaelic football in rural Ireland

    That won't happen. Hurling/football is taken too seriously in rural Ireland for soccer to take hold. And soccer is seen as a bit of craic, a social thing or used to keep fit when the hurling/football is in it's down time. And with the likely split season coming in the GAA, it's likely the GAA will have it's own regular county leagues to compete with the soccer leagues.
    we are never going to be able compete with other countries or European clubs.

    Other countries have proper underage and league structures, and have for decades. We still don't, and as such pay the price.
    The best athletes in the country are wasted playing GAA.
    Not just potential soccer players but potential Olympic athletes.

    Their choice, and I'd doubt very much they say it's wasted either. Whatever about a county, even a club player will expect to play games a few times a year with a crowd of a thousand or more at a match. There's not too many professional sports in the country that even offer that.
    There is just no other sporting outlet.
    It's as simple as that.

    Perhaps if there was a proper structure in place there would be, even at amateur level. Take the above mentioning of the GAA for example.

    Imagine there existed an amateur league based on the GAA model. Clubs could easily field A,B,C & D teams for rural parishes for county leagues. Cities and towns would be split into local population areas rather than parishes and again you could easily field A,B,C & D teams for county leagues. You play for where your from.

    From the amateur clubs, you would pick players to play for county teams.
    Cork would be split into East Cork & West Cork. Dublin split into 4, Dublin North, South, East & West. With those splits and with the other 30 counties, you would have 36 teams.

    Two leagues of 18 teams, A League and B League, each team plays each other once, promotion/relegation is three up/three down. A cup competition accompanies the leagues.

    This amateur county league would occur in the second half of the year from July onwards.

    January to July would be for the county leagues and national cup competitions. There would also be national competitions, based on geographic regions rather than provinces, for the clubs, eg county league champions and county cup champions, that would run alongside the county leagues.

    Now if that structure had been in place for the last 50 years, the LOI would have a steady stream of developed players to choose from and would likely be more competitive as semi-pro league, or better yet give the county players grants and have that as the national league. There would be likely a greater soccer following in the country given the local rivalry and connection to the community that exists with the GAA, with and actual proper structure for coaching development thrown in too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    ShyMets wrote: »
    A little harsh. I imagine most players playing GAA wouldn't consider themselves wasted

    " wasted " is certainly the wrong word but the GAA does hoover up a huge amount of sporting talent , especially outside urban areas

    cause and effect in terms of poor performance in other team sports and the Olympic games

    that isnt a criticism of the GAA , the GAA like any other org are right to do as well as they can but the GAA is the five hundred pound gorilla ( as the yanks say ) in all of this


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Don't think that's a fair comparison. Ireland's main sports have been soccer and gaelic.

    We've been consistently far higher in the soccer world rankings than New Zealand and our National Sports happen to be sports that no other country plays so it's impossible to achieve international success.

    New Zealand is an especially sporty country , always has been , Australia is the same , good climate probably a big factor


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    randd1 wrote: »
    That won't happen. Hurling/football is taken too seriously in rural Ireland for soccer to take hold. And soccer is seen as a bit of craic, a social thing or used to keep fit when the hurling/football is in it's down time. And with the likely split season coming in the GAA, it's likely the GAA will have it's own regular county leagues to compete with the soccer leagues
    You are right it wont happen. In many areas you can see a club soccer team doing well only because the local hurling/gaelic team were knocked out of championship early and the players went back playing soccer far earlier and were a bit more serious than they usually would but as soon as the gaa pre season starts up they drift away from the soccer again.
    Other countries have proper underage and league structures, and have for decades. We still don't, and as such pay the price.
    We're getting there but these things take a long time to really show at the top level of the sport.
    Perhaps if there was a proper structure in place there would be, even at amateur level. Take the above mentioning of the GAA for example.

    Imagine there existed an amateur league based on the GAA model. Clubs could easily field A,B,C & D teams for rural parishes for county leagues. Cities and towns would be split into local population areas rather than parishes and again you could easily field A,B,C & D teams for county leagues. You play for where your from.
    A parish structure works in GAA but in no way should you be basing what you do for soccer or any other major team sport for that matter on what works for the GAA.
    From the amateur clubs, you would pick players to play for county teams.
    Cork would be split into East Cork & West Cork. Dublin split into 4, Dublin North, South, East & West. With those splits and with the other 30 counties, you would have 36 teams.

    Two leagues of 18 teams, A League and B League, each team plays each other once, promotion/relegation is three up/three down. A cup competition accompanies the leagues.
    There isnt a need for this. You have a transfer system in place and players who want/need to play at higher levels have more than enough opportunity to do so. There is a clear hierarchal system in plsce for clubs who wish to progress and there is an open transfer system for players who wish to move to do so as well. There is already strong clubs in the bigger cities that would be stronger than many counties and whats the need
    This amateur county league would occur in the second half of the year from July onwards.

    January to July would be for the county leagues and national cup competitions. There would also be national competitions, based on geographic regions rather than provinces, for the clubs, eg county league champions and county cup champions, that would run alongside the county leagues.

    Now if that structure had been in place for the last 50 years, the LOI would have a steady stream of developed players to choose from and would likely be more competitive as semi-pro league, or better yet give the county players grants and have that as the national league. There would be likely a greater soccer following in the country given the local rivalry and connection to the community that exists with the GAA, with and actual proper structure for coaching development thrown in too.
    Very presumptuous to think these county sides would be followed and people support them in the long term. Talking about this having been in place for last 50 years is fantasy stuff.
    What countries in soccer have done this with this county structure seriously used?
    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    " wasted " is certainly the wrong word but the GAA does hoover up a huge amount of sporting talent, especially outside urban areas

    cause and effect in terms of poor performance in other team sports and the Olympic games

    that isnt a criticism of the GAA, the GAA like any other org are right to do as well as they can but the GAA is the five hundred pound gorilla (as the yanks say) in all of this
    Would agree with this. Its not a criticism of the GAA as what theyve done is and has been excellent but for so much of time and still is to some extent the only show in town in most of ireland and people who could be ideally suited to other sports are never given the opportunity until far too late if at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭Did you smash it


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    why would i ? but i doubt such a rule is limited to this country

    It’s a huge factor in Ireland squad selection. Hence Ireland effectively has a much bigger population than the 4.9 Irish residents within the country. It’s non existent in Denmark.

    That was the point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    They tried that county model with Dublin and Kildare. Even dressed them up in the GAA colours and all. Got about 50 people a match. The people in Dublin that would go to see a LoI team are already at them from what I can see. Aggressively marketing in Tallaght and Phibsboro has been great for Rovers and Bohs. That’s the way for it


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    We have a GAA culture in this country. Our football, or soccer, culture is getting on a bandwagon when Ireland qualify for a major championships once a decade and also it consists of roaring at a telly in a pub on weekends and calling Mick from Clonmel a Scouse bin-dipper on Facebook.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,274 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    There are a lot of people who are either LOI or GAA heads, they wont entertain the idea of going to watch both codes. I am more a LOI fan but will go watch the odd GAA game as well. There are plenty of people on either side who seem to despise the other side.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,656 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    New Zealand is an especially sporty country , always has been , Australia is the same , good climate probably a big factor

    yeah big time, people are sports mad there and despite their small population they've had remarkable success in the Olympics with some 130 odd medals over the years compared to about 30 for Ireland.

    Also because sport is so popular there the government fund it very well. I lived down there for a bit and remember the government spent tens of millions competing in the Americas Cup by sponsoring Team New Zealand. They won it too which was a remarkable achievement considering the trophy was always held by really wealthy American sailing clubs for over 100 odd years.

    Same with mountaineering, obviously Edmund Hillary the first man ever to summit Mount Everest but since then Kiwis have been at the forefront of professional mountaineering.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭doublejobbing 2


    I'm not sure how you could expect anything else. We are an island of 5 million, located right beside one of the biggest football countries in the world,

    Croatia is across from Italy. Consistently punch well above their weight.

    [/QUOTE]

    where all of our top talent, not to mention all our journeymen can travel to, to make a very decent living. We are also a top tier rugby nation and we have our own national sports which command huge participation, funding and interest from the public.

    [/quote]

    While all classes play GAA, those who persue it to county level are generally of a different socio economic class than the ones that produce soccer players. Look at the bios of any county GAA team. It's all bankers, teachers, Gardai, engineers. The class that succeed at rugby generally don't become footballers in any country- outside of Wales, Munster and the Southern Hemisphere it is not a working class sport.

    Ireland has long been held back by, until very recently, a lack of soccer structures outside the main cities. Look at everyone who has had a decent run of caps for Ireland in the last 25 years, virtually all from working class large towns/ urban areas. I think Shane Long, Shay Given and Seamus Coleman might be the only out and out country lads among them. Maybe Kevin Doyle and the Hunt brothers, can't recall if they are from the sticks or a big town.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,662 ✭✭✭elefant


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    There are a lot of people who are either LOI or GAA heads, they wont entertain the idea of going to watch both codes. I am more a LOI fan but will go watch the odd GAA game as well. There are plenty of people on either side who seem to despise the other side.

    I think you'd be hard pushed to find many GAA supporters under the age of 70 who despise soccer. I've been involved with GAA my whole life and I don't think I can think of any.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Lee Chin played hurling, football and soccer for Wexford sure!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭doublejobbing 2


    tastyt wrote: »
    We will never be a football country, we may have a decent team every now and then but our league will unfortunately never take off .

    Before lockdown Bohs were seeing their best crowds in years, LOI in genera was booming. You can even see it in what people wear on the streets- you wouldn't see Stone Island in Dublin 5 years ago.

    People are bored stupid with the Premier League and it has become even more insipid in lockdown. without fans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,274 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    elefant wrote: »
    I think you'd be hard pushed to find many GAA supporters under the age of 70 who despise soccer. I've been involved with GAA my whole life and I don't think I can think of any.



    im not so sure. They definitely will tell you they have no interest in it, and run it down. same goes for the other way around.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Is there money there? Many soccer clubs having poor facilities isnt on the FAI. Its on the clubs themselves not doing more to develop their set ups


    I dont see how having more leagues is necessarily a problem and yes Limerick does have 2 leagues. Its primarily city and east of county with Nenagh town having joined it and another for some of the west limerick/some kerry clubs.
    There is so many playing in Dublin that it makes sense to have multiple leagues.
    General Council of FAI primarily work/vote at AGMs etc. Its not that many. Compare it to the GAA and Congress and how many attend that?

    Leagues themselves might not be an issue, but the voting at the AGM based on those leagues is part of the reason Delaney got away with everything for so long.

    Limerick is a decent example of the general malaise in the LOI considering the current demise of Limerick FC and the promised arrival of Thomond United. Even with the return to the Market's Field (a fine stadium, imo) we couldn't sustain crowds (partially due to the on-going split between the club owner and the fans) needed to sustain top level football in the city.

    I never know how much faith to place in the rumours that footballers with the big junior clubs are paid more than Limerick FC players were but there definitely seemed to be a culture of players opting out of higher level football to stay junior. You don't see that as often in the GAA (where lads will only play club level but refuse to play inter-county) though it does happen.

    Anyhow, the easiest way to improve crowds at LOI is to build bars in each one and sell alcohol. No bar or alcohol in the redeveloped Market's Field is one example of a revenue stream closed for no good reason. The LOI need to make it easy for casual fans to choose to attend matches, pints with the lads is one option.

    Anyhow, any who doesn't go to LOI matches is missing out. The football is obviously way worse that the premier league but the atmosphere can be great fun. I remember going to Limerick games when we were in a relegation dog-fight and every goal counted massively. Great entertainment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    yeah big time, people are sports mad there and despite their small population they've had remarkable success in the Olympics with some 130 odd medals over the years compared to about 30 for Ireland.

    Also because sport is so popular there the government fund it very well. I lived down there for a bit and remember the government spent tens of millions competing in the Americas Cup by sponsoring Team New Zealand. They won it too which was a remarkable achievement considering the trophy was always held by really wealthy American sailing clubs for over 100 odd years.

    Same with mountaineering, obviously Edmund Hillary the first man ever to summit Mount Everest but since then Kiwis have been at the forefront of professional mountaineering.

    also factor in that New Zealand is completely barren in terms of the arts compared to Ireland , sport is how kiwis express themselves , they are certainly not story tellers or poets


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭doublejobbing 2


    We have probably 50,000 genuine football fans in Ireland. Enjoy the fact that we have a niche league that is not supported by the kind of day trippers and phoneys you would see in most EPL grounds or Nou Camp or Bernebeau. The type of people who make comments like the league is ****e or pub league, these people are not football fans and should never be taken seriously. Sky sports is just a soap opera for men, a safe way to pretend to be a real football fan.

    This.

    From some of the stuff you read online the day trippers killed the atmosphere in Anfield and OT years ago. I think all the same there are thousands of untapped fans who just don't realise how good a LOI match is and how they can be part of it.

    Tourists are common at LOI matches. They are more than welcome as they are almost always the same shade of support as the locals, not some lad from Clonmel taking a selfie in Liverpool as Salah takes a corner behind him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭Did you smash it


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    also factor in that New Zealand is completely barren in terms of the arts compared to Ireland , sport is how kiwis express themselves , they are certainly not story tellers or poets

    Maybe, Peter Jackson aside. Flight of the conchords are from there aswell?

    You can be sure NZ invest big public money in sport. Just as the UK did before their brilliant Olympics.

    Money = success in sport .. most of the time


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral



    Tourists are common at LOI matches. They are more than welcome as they are almost always the same shade of support as the locals, not some lad from Clonmel taking a selfie in Liverpool as Salah takes a corner behind him.

    That’s the thing, yet Paddy Premiership thinks it’s gas to point out loads of Man United’s fans come from London without a hint of irony.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,414 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    He might never see a game for them again outside the league cup if Becker stays fit.

    100% Becker stays fit and in form, only having just turned 28... he could have another 6/7 years at Liverpool, longer maybe .... Kelleher will be 27/28 himself by then.... he isn’t going to improve by sitting on the bench and playing in the league cup...

    If I’m Kelleher I’m saying in my mind.... “ ok, I’ve two or three seasons, I’ll work my arse off, try get in the team, do well when I’ve an opportunity... Alisson might loose form, head to Madrid....take up baseball instead.... any of those things happen I want to be ready to be #1 “...

    Worst thing he can do is hang around till he’s 27/28... play league cup / early round FA Cup games... seen players do that, by the time a chance manifests itself they are stale... all on them taking that chance in a cup game vs Doncaster, big pressure, a clanger dropped ... goodnight.... few months later, signed by Hull...

    I’d rather at 24/25 he’d say... “ok, thanks Liverpool but I need to take my opportunity elsewhere Sunderland / Newcastle... whoever have contacted you with an offer for me, I’d like to leave”


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