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Ireland is a pretend football country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,861 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Breezin wrote: »
    Gotta start somewhere. What capacity will the rafting white elephant have?

    Apt comparison. :rolleyes:
    Strumms wrote: »
    I think initially 6,000 would be ok, hopefully the design of the stadium will be such that expansion could happen should in 10 years, the fortunes of Bohemians and the league encourage more people to come, hopefully that’s the case.

    There will be simply no space to expand the stadium.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭twowheelsonly


    Zebra3 wrote: »

    There will be simply no space to expand the stadium.

    I was at a Europa League game in BK Hacken (Gothenburg) a few years ago and they have a brand new stadium with the best of facilities but the capacity is only around 5 or 6,000. Fantastic stadium. The way it was built means that they can pop another layer on top in the future should the need arise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 35 Orange Tiny Terror


    We have probably 50,000 genuine football fans in Ireland. Enjoy the fact that we have a niche league that is not supported by the kind of day trippers and phoneys you would see in most EPL grounds or Nou Camp or Bernebeau. The type of people who make comments like the league is ****e or pub league, these people are not football fans and should never be taken seriously. Sky sports is just a soap opera for men, a safe way to pretend to be a real football fan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,071 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    I think if the clubs could get more Irish internationals to finish their career in the LOI it would help. The first LOI game I went to was so I could see paddy mccourt play live, 12 euro in and it was well worth it, I caught the LOI bug after that game. most Irish man u or liverpool fans dont even know who mccourt is though.

    I think brexit will mean Irish youngsters cant go play there until they are 18, that might help the game here as well if they stay here longer.

    Dundalk are a great team to watch live as are shamrock rovers, same for bohs. 20 euro for a seat in the stand, 15 to stand, you couldnt go wrong.

    It would help enormously.. but when it comes down to it, it’s not going to happen.

    Say player X... playing for Doncaster, been falling down the leagues.. 34 now... not making the first 11 all that regularly... thinking about heading home to Dublin, family, mates there....

    Makes contact via his agent with Bohemians say and Rovers too.... they offer in the region for arguments sake of 2000 a week. He’s on 9000 a week playing for Doncaster.. no footballer, no human with even half a functioning brain is booking a flight home. Playing in front of 10000-16000 supporters in a modern professionally ran facility like Keapmoat stadium... with a full time gym, medical / rehab facility for injuries, canteen... the fûck would you want to be here for ?

    You want to be making the best of your career and abilities. Sell yourself short, why ? Maximize your value, it’s a short career.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭Northernlily


    Reading on RTE.ie that the public purse will be used to fund a white water rafting complex in the ifsc to the tune of 25 million.

    This while “the home of Irish football” Dalymount park is a half condemned ruin.

    It amuses me that people think Ireland is a football country because it has the highest participation rate of any sport.

    Truth is we have no football economy really beyond a really small time one and no matter what the FAI do they’ll never have the ability to upgrade it as there is no financial investment or wealth in football in the country.

    The public’s investment in football amounts to sky sports subscriptions and trips cross channel.

    I can tell you given the high concentration of absolute scrotes in that area that white water rafting facility will be a waste of money.

    The IFSC is a facade for some very serious social issues.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,071 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Feenix wrote: »
    Crowds would increase but not considerably. It’s still a small league and certain areas are too far away to attend games.
    Facilities are getting better but the comparison for the average Irish person isn’t just English football, it’s the top 4 of the Premier League. They’ll never get interested in it.

    Bohemians, Shelbourne, Shamrock Rovers, Pats, Cork City, to name 5 clubs off the top of my head, are smack fûcking bang in the middle of large residential population centers though. With excellent transport links...

    I’m of the view that if the facilities are there, the product on and off the pitch is attractive and appealing, people will come to watch and enjoy. You NEED both to combine and align.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    I can tell you given the high concentration of absolute scrotes in that area that white water rafting facility will be a waste of money.

    The IFSC is a facade for some very serious social issues.

    25 million that white rafting thing near IFSC is due to cost, some WOKE crowd in Dublin City Council driving it


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,071 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    25 million that white rafting thing near IFSC is due to cost, some WOKE crowd in Dublin City Council driving it

    People go on about attendance down in the LOI... you will still get thousands more attending LOI games per week, then will get use out of that... 25 million to support a completely niche wokey adventure plaything... that will be by my guesstimation, a white elephant after 5 or 6 years, if not sooner.

    Government here has been historically slow to invest in sports, unless the GAA comes calling.


  • Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Strumms wrote: »
    People go on about attendance down in the LOI... you will still get thousands more attending LOI games per week, then will get use out of that... 25 million to support a completely niche wokey adventure plaything... that will be by my guesstimation, a white elephant after 5 or 6 years, if not sooner.

    But think of all that English stag ladbanter that will be had on it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    The FAI don't want to spend money ...they like to pocket it ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭RugbyLover123


    I was at a Europa League game in BK Hacken (Gothenburg) a few years ago and they have a brand new stadium with the best of facilities but the capacity is only around 5 or 6,000. Fantastic stadium. The way it was built means that they can pop another layer on top in the future should the need arise.

    Had a quick Google of that stadium and it is lovely, should be the prototype and goal for every LOI side. It’s really a disgrace that Ireland in general doesn’t have at least 1 small soccer stadium like that, Tallaght probably being the closest.

    I have no doubt the facilities are probably the main reason for the attendances/lack of interest in the league.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭davetherave


    I'd be curious to see where on the FA football pyramid LOI Premier teams would be placed. Both in terms of the overall picture - finances, grounds, team, attendance and just team talent as well.

    Like if you took Dundalk or Shamrock Rovers and did a straight swap with Aldershot Town in the National League (Tier 5) would they be competitive. Or Chester Town F.C, in Tier 6, or moving up one to EFL Two and swap them with Newport County.


    That being said, and to contradict myself in the same sentence I don't think that comparing football in Ireland to England is the answer or even helpful. Surely there are countries out there with a similar population size that do have good from grassroots up


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,965 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I love going to Dalymount to see Bohs, it's a run down kip alright but I love the bars and the craic in the stand.
    I know we have rugby and GAA, but I wonder how Croatia is successful in sport, they seem to win loads of olympic medals and are really good at tennis and basketball.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,965 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    25 million that white rafting thing near IFSC is due to cost, some WOKE crowd in Dublin City Council driving it

    I'm not in favour of it but how on earth is this "woke"? You were calling people "woke" for wanting rid of the Angelus earlier too, that also makes no sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭McGinniesta


    Correct. It’s better than nothing but it’s unambitious

    Are we to be realistic or ambitious?

    We already have a football association on the verge of bankruptcy. The main reason being a stadium that it can't pay for.

    To make this mistake for a second time would be monumentally stupid.

    Secondly, I'm a bohs fan. 6,000 is plenty good enough for the time being.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,074 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Strumms wrote: »
    It would help enormously.. but when it comes down to it, it’s not going to happen.

    Say player X... playing for Doncaster, been falling down the leagues.. 34 now... not making the first 11 all that regularly... thinking about heading home to Dublin, family, mates there....

    Makes contact via his agent with Bohemians say and Rovers too.... they offer in the region for arguments sake of 2000 a week. He’s on 9000 a week playing for Doncaster.. no footballer, no human with even half a functioning brain is booking a flight home. Playing in front of 10000-16000 supporters in a modern professionally ran facility like Keapmoat stadium... with a full time gym, medical / rehab facility for injuries, canteen... the fûck would you want to be here for ?

    You want to be making the best of your career and abilities. Sell yourself short, why ? Maximize your value, it’s a short career.



    But it does happen, damien duff (100 caps for Ireland) damien delaney, paddy mccourt, daryl murphy, joey o brien, liam miller, colin healy, they all came back to play LOI after earning big money in the UK and other countries, its not the money they come back for obviously.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 mikeryanqs


    I have no doubt the facilities are probably the main reason for the attendances/lack of interest in the league.

    Biggest issues, I feel, is Ireland’s best players don’t play in it. Rugby and Gaa have the advantage of the best players playing here.
    When rugby started going professional, a lot of players went to England, if that continued it could have changed rugby. Likewise, big crowds watching the AIL, when internationals played in it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,074 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Had a quick Google of that stadium and it is lovely, should be the prototype and goal for every LOI side. It’s really a disgrace that Ireland in general doesn’t have at least 1 small soccer stadium like that, Tallaght probably being the closest.

    I have no doubt the facilities are probably the main reason for the attendances/lack of interest in the league.



    Thats not it. They are just obsessed with the premier league, that is why they have no interest in LOI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,965 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    To be fair they could attract more groups of lads if they had better bars and food and stuff


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,074 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    I'd be curious to see where on the FA football pyramid LOI Premier teams would be placed. Both in terms of the overall picture - finances, grounds, team, attendance and just team talent as well.

    Like if you took Dundalk or Shamrock Rovers and did a straight swap with Aldershot Town in the National League (Tier 5) would they be competitive. Or Chester Town F.C, in Tier 6, or moving up one to EFL Two and swap them with Newport County.


    That being said, and to contradict myself in the same sentence I don't think that comparing football in Ireland to England is the answer or even helpful. Surely there are countries out there with a similar population size that do have good from grassroots up


    Are you serious? Dundalk played well in the europa league in the last few months. They would be competitive in league 1.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭Feenix


    Strumms wrote: »
    Bohemians, Shelbourne, Shamrock Rovers, Pats, Cork City, to name 5 clubs off the top of my head, are smack fûcking bang in the middle of large residential population centers though. With excellent transport links...

    I’m of the view that if the facilities are there, the product on and off the pitch is attractive and appealing, people will come to watch and enjoy. You NEED both to combine and align.
    A whole 5 clubs, well done. The size of the league compared to other leagues in Europe is substantial. We have GAA clubs where other countries will have football clubs. If you're from Offaly or Leitrim for example theres no chance you'll be getting invovled in the LOI.
    I've been following Rovers for over 30 years, the league is getting better no doubt. Improved facilities will increase attendances but only slightly. The average armchair fan wont change their mind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭square ball


    The GAA has a big tradition in nearly every rural town and village in the country. The majority of young lads outside of the biggest towns and cities will play GAA. Most clubs have dressing rooms, a clubhouse/meeting room and sports hall or access to one. Some of the bigger clubs will have multiple pitches and Astroturfs and decent stands for watching games. I can't think of one soccer ground in my county with a stand at junior level. A lot of GAA clubs in each county have better facilities than League of Ireland clubs.

    Outside of a handful of areas in the bigger towns and cities there is very little tradition playing soccer. Most parents in my area had no interest in it and there was more people at our first minor football game than at a Youths Cup soccer final when I was playing.

    At League of Ireland level the facilities aren't good enough, there isn't enough money to be competitive in Europe. The facilities and structures are improving very very slowly but it will be a generation or two before we see the benefits if money is invested correctly. Facilities have to improve across the board and you need a few hundred more qualified development coaches employed by the FAI. We have been overachieving for years and are now playing slightly below the level we should be at internationally.

    Some of the biggest schoolboy clubs are just shipping off their most talented kids to England and taking in big bucks in compensation. Very few kids have a pathway from under 6's to International football by playing all the way up with the one team. Until this changes and our Domestic league is a viable option we will be hit and miss at international level.

    We have improved at underage level because of the changes implemented by Ruud Dokter but our players are not playing enough games at adult level in the UK between ages 18-21 so not developing from youth players to senior internationals.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭Daragh1980


    The LOI loses credibility when the clubs play in European competitions and end up moving their home games to the Aviva. I don’t see clubs in other countries (of similar size) doing this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    I'm not sure how you could expect anything else. We are an island of 5 million, located right beside one of the biggest football countries in the world, where all of our top talent, not to mention all our journeymen can travel to, to make a very decent living. We are also a top tier rugby nation and we have our own national sports which command huge participation, funding and interest from the public.

    The Charlton/McCarthy years were a stroke of luck. A golden generation of footballers from this island and Britain which came about because of societal circumstances aka "poverty = good players"
    If we want to repeat that success from now on, the FAI is going to have to get positively Germanic in its organizational and long tern planning abilities.

    Yeah. :D
    The Charlton/McCarthy years were a stroke of luck with golden generation and many who grew up with that just expected it to continue without many changes/upheavals at grassroots to assist that.
    ould agree about GAA/Rugby being major factor.
    nullzero wrote: »
    White water rafting is for the high paid foreign workers who all live in the docklands isn't it?

    It has little to do with Ireland or the Irish people, just giving those mentioned above a reason to spend their weekends here and spend an extra few quid in our economy instead of going somewhere else in Europe for a couple of days.

    As for investment in Irish domestic soccer, the OP is right, Irish football is in a pitiful state. Huge numbers taking part in amateur level soccer doesn't mean it's the biggest sport in the country.

    Soccer is the poor relation in terms of elite level sport behind Gaelic football hurling and rugby, a lot of people who participate in those sports at a serious level also participate in soccer at a social level.
    Irish football has always been in that position and always will be unfortunately.
    The white water rafting is very much to do with Ireland and irish people. It can be used to encourage people to compete/try these sports in a central location
    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    Ireland is also a pretend rugby country
    Why?
    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Of course it does, look at the difference in facilities between most GAA/Rugby clubs and soccer clubs, there’s money there but the FAI just squander it.

    There may not be Premier League type money but there’s potential for more growth.
    Is there money there? Many soccer clubs having poor facilities isnt on the FAI. Its on the clubs themselves not doing more to develop their set ups
    The facilities in Soccer over the last 20 years have improved in leaps and bounds. To be fair to Delaney it's one of the things that he drove on. When I played we got changed in an old shipping container and we played on a pitch that was roughly as level as a skateboarding park. The same club now has dressing rooms, showers, 2 pitches with sprinklers and drainage and a half size astro. The same is true of many clubs.

    I don't agree that the FAI don't care about LoI or local football in general. I deal with lads in the FAI and almost without exception every one of them has a LoI club that they follow or are involved with their own local clubs. There's a very strong LoI culture there and a good slagging between staff on a constant basis.

    The problem as I see it is the overall structure. Too many Associations and divisions. All have their own structures (Chairman, Sec, Treasurer etc) and all want to protect what they have. The GAA structure is far better. Limerick for instance has two or three separate adult leagues. In Cork or Dublin you have the likes of the AUL, Munster/Leinster Senior leagues, Shipping Leagues etc. The same filters down at Schoolboys level - Dublin & District SL, North Dublin SL, Metropolitan Girls League etc.
    In GAA all clubs are affiliated to their County Board. They in turn are affiliated to their Provincial Council and in turn to the National Council/Congress. Everything flows sweetly up and down (for the most part) and everyone is (again for the most part) working to promote GAA. FAI Council is trying to cater to too many sub-divisions which leads to the pie being too broken up too many times. There's 60 members of the FAI Council - all representing various Leagues or Associations. Why does a country of our size and population need 60 representatives ?
    I dont see how having more leagues is necessarily a problem and yes Limerick does have 2 leagues. Its primarily city and east of county with Nenagh town having joined it and another for some of the west limerick/some kerry clubs.
    There is so many playing in Dublin that it makes sense to have multiple leagues.
    General Council of FAI primarily work/vote at AGMs etc. Its not that many. Compare it to the GAA and Congress and how many attend that?
    I love going to Dalymount to see Bohs, it's a run down kip alright but I love the bars and the craic in the stand.
    I know we have rugby and GAA, but I wonder how Croatia is successful in sport, they seem to win loads of olympic medals and are really good at tennis and basketball.
    Far more multi sports clubs? Sports/teams share facilities more. In so many towns across ireland you can have 4/5 clubs all in different venues with relatively poor facilities in many of them but if the clubs combined resources where possible and worked together they'd have rather good facilities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭Feenix


    Daragh1980 wrote: »
    The LOI loses credibility when the clubs play in European competitions and end up moving their home games to the Aviva. I don’t see clubs in other countries (of similar size) doing this.

    Other than Dundalk, who has had to do this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Daragh1980 wrote: »
    The LOI loses credibility when the clubs play in European competitions and end up moving their home games to the Aviva. I don’t see clubs in other countries (of similar size) doing this.
    The league doesnt really lose credibility because of this. Did Atalanta not have to move some of their games to San Siro in champions league a few years back because their ground at time didnt meet uefa regulations?
    I dont think any other side has had to move their games to Aviva but


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,071 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    I love going to Dalymount to see Bohs, it's a run down kip alright but I love the bars and the craic in the stand.
    I know we have rugby and GAA, but I wonder how Croatia is successful in sport, they seem to win loads of olympic medals and are really good at tennis and basketball.

    They invest in facilities. For the sportsperson and fan.

    Croatia is a seriously nice place, I’ve been in Zadar and Dubrovnik and I’d go back in a heartbeat.

    Croatia -

    Population: 4 million

    Two sporting achievements off the top of my head....Sporting achievements...

    Football :

    World Cup 1998: 3rd

    World Cup 2018: 2nd


    Basketball, Handball, Volleyball, Athletics, table tennis, weightlifting are all sports where Croatia win medals at Olympic or European or World events, regularly...

    Almost the same population, a country which has had little in general of the economic benefits over the last xx years but can equip and nurture talent to be seriously successful. Repeatedly..

    They’ve invested in infrastructure to aid athletic / sporting development and success.

    We haven’t really. Not to the extent we could or should.... instead of investing in the nurturing of young Irish talent from a young age...money has erm, let’s just say, been spent elsewhere...


  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭Feenix


    The league doesnt really lose credibility because of this. Did Atalanta not have to move some of their games to San Siro in champions league a few years back because their ground at time didnt meet uefa regulations?
    I dont think any other side has had to move their games to Aviva but

    They even played in Sassuolos stadium before that I think and that's half way across the country.


  • Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Strumms wrote: »
    They invest in facilities. For the sportsperson and fan.

    Croatia is a seriously nice place, I’ve been in Zadar and Dubrovnik and I’d go back in a heartbeat.

    Croatia -

    Population: 4 million

    Two sporting achievements off the top of my head....Sporting achievements...

    Football :

    World Cup 1998: 3rd

    World Cup 2018: 2nd


    Basketball, Handball, Volleyball, Athletics, table tennis, weightlifting are all sports where Croatia win medals at Olympic or European or World events, regularly...

    Almost the same population, a country which has had little in general of the economic benefits over the last xx years but can equip and nurture talent to be seriously successful. Repeatedly..

    They’ve invested in infrastructure to aid athletic / sporting development and success.

    We haven’t really. Not to the extent we could or should.... instead of investing in the nurturing of young Irish talent from a young age...money has erm, let’s just say, been spent elsewhere...

    They just tend to be better specimens on the whole than we are.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Portugal and Denmark are next door to far more successful countries than England and have similar populations to Ireland. Doesn’t stop them.

    Our size is a convenient excuse that doesn’t quite explain why our league is similar in size to Malta and far inferior to Cyprus and many others.

    Portugals population double ours

    Denmarks population is indeed similiar

    neither of those countries have the GAA hoovering up most of the talent

    we should only really compare to populations with circa two million people like Wales , Soccer isnt the national sport here


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