Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

L1011 · 23-02-2015 12:03am

Carnacalla wrote: »

I doubt that, Alot of the american beasts are replacing their domestic 757's with A320/A321's and 737's. Soon Id say that TATL will be the main use of 757's

9 to 14% of 757s are used for TATL. Its going to grow but its really not a huge market, or even what the bulk of them will be used for.

The 737-900 is the main replacement on US domestic longhauls but it hasn't got the range or the runway performance for some of it, e.g. getting out of LGA is troublesome at best with it.

JCX BXC · 23-02-2015 12:03am

L1011 wrote: »

First 757s TATL were charter airlines in the 80s, Continental started in the mid 1990s with a few routes, as did BA and AA.

It was the winglet retrofit which came out after production ended that really pushed the TATL routes though; brought the range up enough to change a lot of routes from marginal to possible most days.

After 9/11, Continental had the hardest push with the 757's and so they are credited with starting the major 757 TATL operations.

As an alternative to the A321 Neo, could Aer Lingus look into buying a few 767-200ER's? Unlikely, but its something to consider.

L1011 · 23-02-2015 12:06am

Carnacalla wrote: »

As an alternative to the A321 Neo, could Aer Lingus look into buying a few 767-200ER's? Unlikely, but its something to consider.

Cost-wise there's little if any advantage; they may as well just get 332s if they're going to go larger at all. There's not many 762s left anyway, probably 20 or so flyable, even though you can order them new - if you're insane. 767 line is open due to the freighters and tankers; some passenger 763s were delivered last year I think.

JCX BXC · 23-02-2015 12:09am

L1011 wrote: »

Cost-wise there's little if any advantage; they may as well just get 332s if they're going to go larger at all. There's not many 762s left anyway, probably 20 or so flyable, even though you can order them new - if you're insane. 767 line is open due to the freighters and tankers; some passenger 763s were delivered last year I think.

My thoughts are Shannon and thin routes from Dublin. Would an A332 be too much plane for shannon outside of the summer months?

L1011 · 23-02-2015 12:12am

Carnacalla wrote: »

My thoughts are Shannon and thin routes from Dublin. Would an A332 be too much plane for shannon outside of the summer months?

It was before, but a 762 isn't enough less in terms of costs. Even if they found some decent ones you're looking at a 15 year old bird (with a 30 year old design) at best. Smaller plane doesn't directly equal smaller operating costs.

I know they're using one this summer but that's basically a case of what's available - the Tristar and MD11 definitely weren't economic to be new introductions to a fleet when they used them in the early 2000s for instance.

arubex · 23-02-2015 7:07am

For 767-200ER vs A330-200, just as a paper exercise, I found this report from the time of the USAF tanker selection:

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/files/Boeing_KC-X_Fuel_Costs_Report_2007-11.pdf

Even though it paints the A330 in the worst possible light ( it was part of the Boeing bid ) it still shows the A330 having 30% more passenger capacity for 24% more fuel consumption.

When you add in the extra cargo capacity of the A330 ( and it can take LD3s, the 767 cannot ) then the gap will widen even more.

The only 767 that came close to the A330-200 was the -400; Delta's published figures put the two of them very close together. But it's not available on the leasing market.

Most airlines now pick the A330-300 though, since iterative improvements have given it much of the range that originally led to the -200 but with yet more capacity.

Preset No.3 · 23-02-2015 12:47pm

Titan operating EI2139 today to BOS

Tenger · 23-02-2015 7:56pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

My thoughts are Shannon and thin routes from Dublin. Would an A332 be too much plane for shannon outside of the summer months?

I think so, probably for the foreseable future there will be no more EI A330's ex-SNN.
EI B757:~165 seats, Omni B762: ~205, EI A332: 267 seats.
A321neo-LR will be around 190-200 seats.

EICVD · 23-02-2015 8:09pm

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Titan operating EI2139 today to BOS

EI were hoping Titan would operate this flight yesterday evening but was cancelled, pax can't have been happy having 2 flights cancelled & departing a day late!

man98 · 23-02-2015 8:46pm

Is this because of Business class refitting resulting in a TATL fleet shortage? Or unexpected maintenance?

EICVD · 23-02-2015 8:51pm

man98 wrote: »

Is this because of Business class refitting resulting in a TATL fleet shortage? Or unexpected maintenance?

Saturday's flight never made it back from BOS, think it was the aircraft that diverted to Bangor.

JCX BXC · 23-02-2015 8:57pm

EICVD wrote: »

Saturday's flight never made it back from BOS, think it was the aircraft that diverted to Bangor.

It diverted to bangor, and made it to BOS at 9pm local time, and the flight from BOS-DUB was cancelled for some strange reason.

EICVD · 23-02-2015 8:59pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

It diverted to bangor, and made it to BOS at 9pm local time, and the flight from BOS-DUB was cancelled for some strange reason.

That explains why the Titan was needed yesterday so, why that rescheduled flight at 1750 yesterday was cancelled too is the big question now.

JCX BXC · 23-02-2015 9:04pm

EICVD wrote: »

That explains why the Titan was needed yesterday so, why that rescheduled flight at 1750 yesterday was cancelled too is the big question now.

The titan didn't arrive till after 6:30.

EICVD · 23-02-2015 9:07pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

The titan didn't arrive till after 6:30.

Thought that was the reason, bad planning by EI then to reschedule a flight without knowing they were certain they had an aircraft to operate it.

arubex · 24-02-2015 1:21pm

EICVD wrote: »

EI were hoping Titan would operate this flight yesterday evening but was cancelled

Very unusual for Titan to scrub a sub; reputations in the short-notice ACMI market are built on dependability.

EICVD · 24-02-2015 1:29pm

arubex wrote: »

Very unusual for Titan to scrub a sub; reputations in the short-notice ACMI market are built on dependability.

I was only getting the info 3rd hand, my girlfriend's friends brother & his family were flying home. The rescheduled cancelled flight was up on the departure boards, wether the problem was EI or Titan who knows.

Strumms · 25-02-2015 12:49am

The replacment could have been scheduled in good faith but ever so often the stars align to create a cluster **** on top of a another one... Maybe the replacment aircraft was green to go but one of the available crew members went sick, or the replacment aircraft was AOG due to a fault discovered at the last minute with no parts to hand etc... Just an alternative perspective.. We had 3 birds on the deck at one point a few years ago... 1 grounded due to a flaps problem.. Replacment from CDG arrived with fuel leak discovered by F/O during walk around and a replacment which was happily in good nick arrived but with crew out of hours on arrival.... Following evening minimum staff and 2 aircraft to turn around within 18 mins (original airframe was out of service for 4 days or so after).

Tenger · 25-02-2015 9:55am

Strumms wrote: »

.....every so often the stars align to create a cluster **** on top of a another one........... We had 3 birds on the deck at one point a few years ago... 1 grounded due to a flaps problem.. Replacment from CDG arrived with fuel leak discovered by F/O during walk around and a replacment which was happily in good nick arrived but with crew out of hours on arrival......

They weren't Bae146's by any chance?

I can remember from my time in EI a decade ago Operations knew not to park a 146 beside a tech (sick ) one....they seemed to infect each other!!

Strumms · 25-02-2015 10:46am

Tenger wrote: »

They weren't Bae146's by any chance?

I can remember from my time in EI a decade ago Operations knew not to park a 146 beside a tech (sick ) one....they seemed to infect each other!!

Not 146s nope a collection from the Airbus Family, that was a fun night for all not.

donvito99 · 25-02-2015 7:24pm

Not strictly 2015 but fleet discussion nonetheless.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aer-lingus-deal-for-new-planes-sealed-as-profits-hit-72m-31020407.html

Aer Lingus has inked a deal to buy nine new Airbus aircraft that will eventually enable it to replace its existing long-haul fleet. ... Aer Lingus said the new aircraft it will take delivery of in the coming years will allow it to expand its long-haul services in the future.

The airline will launch a service to Washington this year, and is likely to relaunch a Dublin-Los Angeles service next year.

The new Airbus A350 aircraft it has ordered will have 30 business class seats and 330 seats in total.

Aer Lingus will also introduce a premium economy service on long-haul flights when it starts taking delivery of the new aircraft.

Premium Economy has been talked about. But 330 seats total on the A350 surprises me. I would've imagined that they'd have followed present practice and go above the manufacturer/legacy carrier configuration. On a trivial level, the 350 is as long and wider than the 330, but perhaps additional rows of J class (in a less sparse 1-2-2 config) and Premium Economy has forced their hand.

L1011 · 25-02-2015 10:35pm

Rumours in the US that the "perimeter rule" at La Guardia is to be lifted.

IF this happens, EI have a unique opportunity (as LGA is unlikely to ever get customs) to offer TATL in there. The runways are within spec for an MTOW 752, its within range and they can clear the flights here.

There'd be plenty of people willing to connect at DUB to arrive cleared and at LGA.

I can't find any suspected runway performance data for the 321LR though which could be a problem.

Preset No.3 · 26-02-2015 12:07am

I would rather get the now defunct $15 fung wah bus to Boston and fly home that have to go anywhere near the delapadated, run down, cramped airport that is LGA.

lord lucan · 26-02-2015 12:26am

Tbh if the rules are amended I think it'll be more a case of allowing trans continental flights to SFO and LAX than international flights.

JCX BXC · 26-02-2015 12:29am

lord lucan wrote: »

Tbh if the rules are amended I think it'll be more a case of allowing trans continental flights to SFO and LAX than international flights.

But International flights are possible with pre-clearence. Transatlantic may be stretching it a little but I'd expect Toronto to be added.

L1011 · 26-02-2015 12:35am

Carnacalla wrote: »

But International flights are possible with pre-clearence. Transatlantic may be stretching it a little but I'd expect Toronto to be added.

Already has Toronto, its within perimeter. And Montreal and Ottawa.

Vancouver and some Caribbean destinations with CBP would be most likely to appear, if slots were available. Just removing the perimeter doesn't fix the fact that the airport's full but there's some really questionable slot sitting by Delta in particularly so there's definitely slots to be bought.

roundymac · 26-02-2015 8:17pm

L1011 wrote: »

Rumours in the US that the "perimeter rule" at La Guardia is to be lifted.

IF this happens, EI have a unique opportunity (as LGA is unlikely to ever get customs) to offer TATL in there. The runways are within spec for an MTOW 752, its within range and they can clear the flights here.

There'd be plenty of people willing to connect at DUB to arrive cleared and at LGA.

I can't find any suspected runway performance data for the 321LR though which could be a problem.

Would suit my missus grand, her sister lives just down the road from LGA.

Tenger · 26-02-2015 8:36pm

L1011 wrote: »

Rumours in the US that the "perimeter rule" at La Guardia is to be lifted.

IF this happens, EI have a unique opportunity (as LGA is unlikely to ever get customs) to offer TATL in there. The runways are within spec for an MTOW 752, its within range and they can clear the flights here. .....

Cant see that happening at all.

EI have lots of connecting traffic at JFK with Jetblue and United. Why would they serve a mostly Delta smaller airport?
Business pax want to go to JFK, better transport links from JFK-Manhattan.
LGA is the 3rd airport serving NYC metro area for a reason. EWR would be served before LGA.....and that is not going to happen either.

L1011 · 26-02-2015 8:48pm

Tenger wrote: »

Cant see that happening at all.

EI have lots of connecting traffic at JFK with Jetblue and United. Why would they serve a mostly Delta smaller airport?
Business pax want to go to JFK, better transport links from JFK-Manhattan.
LGA is the 3rd airport serving NYC metro area for a reason. EWR would be served before LGA.....and that is not going to happen either.

LGA is where the premium pax want to go, though.

If they're looking at a third NYC daily from DUB, a 757 to LGA is what I'd want to add if the option was available.

donvito99 · 26-02-2015 9:14pm

L1011 wrote: »

LGA is where the premium pax want to go, though.

And you know this how? Proximity? The premium pax aren't going to jump ship (all the other carriers would seemingly have to move also, seeing as it's where the premium pax want to go, allegedly) because part of the reason they're considered premium is that they're tied into FFPs run by carriers operating out of the larger hubs (in our case, international ones) which are well worn now after decades of patronage. La Guardia is choc-a-bloc-ful of established domestic routes, it would be stupid for EI to send a 757 or similar. As far as I know the Newark expedition back in the day didn't go all to well, and EI should be consolidating, building on the T5 experience and connectivity, building their frequency (as they are, sending the 3rd daily NYC anywhere other than Kennedy is silly).

L1011 · 26-02-2015 9:20pm

donvito99 wrote: »

And you know this how? Proximity? .

Its the case with any within-perimeter routes in the US - the United PS and American A321T transcons are out of range which is why they're JFK.

As the main TATL carrier from the only country in Europe that can send flights to non-FIS airports its definitely something that should be looked at - if the rumours are true.

As goes FFPs - I wouldn't be at all surprised if the new FFP promised for next month in the financial report is Avios. Particularly as they're promising a tiered FFP with financial partners etc all of which you'd imagine would have leaked out if its not just wholesale using an existing system.

Even if the permeter was dropped tomorrow there'd be a nightmare getting slots, which would have to be considered too.

donvito99 · 26-02-2015 9:43pm

L1011 wrote: »

Its the case with any within-perimeter routes in the US - the United PS and American A321T transcons are out of range which is why they're JFK.

As the main TATL carrier from the only country in Europe that can send flights to non-FIS airports its definitely something that should be looked at - if the rumours are true.

As goes FFPs - I wouldn't be at all surprised if the new FFP promised for next month in the financial report is Avios. Particularly as they're promising a tiered FFP with financial partners etc all of which you'd imagine would have leaked out if its not just wholesale using an existing system.

Even if the permeter was dropped tomorrow there'd be a nightmare getting slots, which would have to be considered too.

And if IAG do takeover EI the idea of a them being over at LGA doesn't make much sense at all, unless IAG's supposed for DUB as a reliever for LHR strategy was amended substantially to target premium paying business travellers who supposedly want to be a few kilometres closer to upper Manhattan than the rest of us.

L1011 · 26-02-2015 9:56pm

donvito99 wrote: »

And if IAG do takeover EI the idea of a them being over at LGA doesn't make much sense at all, unless IAG's supposed for DUB as a reliever for LHR strategy was amended substantially to target premium paying business travellers who supposedly want to be a few kilometres closer to upper Manhattan than the rest of us.

On the contrary, I'd actually see the LCY-SNN-JFK service be moved to LGA as soon as they could get their hands on slots. They're unlikely to ignore the advantages of it, considering they have their own equivalent in London with the sizeable BACF operation.

JCX BXC · 01-03-2015 11:45pm

What are the chances of the SNN-LHR route changing to an A320? (Especially after the IAG takeover?)

01-03-2015 11:49pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

What are the chances of the SNN-LHR route changing to an A320? (Especially after the IAG takeover?)

That will happen as Aer Lingus are ditching the 319.

JCX BXC · 01-03-2015 11:52pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That will happen as Aer Lingus are ditching the 319.

Thats still a few years out.

When do you think it the A319 will be removed.

highlydebased · 02-03-2015 12:03am

Completely gone by.2017. One or two per year til then I think

JCX BXC · 02-03-2015 12:33am

highlydebased wrote: »

Completely gone by.2017. One or two per year til then I think

AFAIK its 1 in 2016 and 3 in 2017.

My badly phrased question was mesnt to look more like -when will the a319 be removed from Shannon?

Also, anyone have any idea whether there will be a B767 leased by EI in 2016?

Tenger · 02-03-2015 9:34am

Carnacalla wrote: »

.....
Also, anyone have any idea whether there will be a B767 leased by EI in 2016?

If this summers operation is a success I see no reason for EI not to do it again next year.

arubex · 02-03-2015 9:42am

I see the status of Virgin Little Red ( "I'm not dead!" "Yes he is!" ) has finally been officially confirmed; their slots are up for grabs from Winter 2015:

http://www.acl-uk.org/latestNews.aspx?id=183

I assume the A320s freed from that lease will be displacing the A319s?

JCX BXC · 02-03-2015 10:28am

arubex wrote: »

I see the status of Virgin Little Red ( "I'm not dead!" "Yes he is!" ) has finally been officially confirmed; their slots are up for grabs from Winter 2015:

http://www.acl-uk.org/latestNews.aspx?id=183

I assume the A320s freed from that lease will be displacing the A319s?

I heard Aer Lingus leased at least one of the A320's for that contract. Wheather these will return to the EI fleet or the lessor is unknown.

At least 1 of the A319's will be replaced by an A321.

Tenger · 03-03-2015 12:24am

Carnacalla wrote: »

I heard Aer Lingus leased at least one of the A320's for that contract. Wheather these will return to the EI fleet or the lessor is unknown.

At least 1 of the A319's will be replaced by an A321.

2 of the Little Red A320's are part of the EI fleet, other 2 were leased in for the operation specifically.

Comhrá · 03-03-2015 9:07pm

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/35460-aer-lingus-considering-the-a321neo-lr-for-transatlantic-flights

JCX BXC · 04-03-2015 2:19am

A range of 4000NM? Thats more than the 757! If thats true, fair play to Airbus!

roundymac · 04-03-2015 10:46am

yeah. saw the figure mentioned in an article in Airliner World.

arubex · 04-03-2015 2:41pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

A range of 4000NM? Thats more than the 757! If thats true, fair play to Airbus!

Here's the payload-range chart from the Airbus presentation; it really does seem to have the 757 licked at longer ranges. Amazing transformation, just a pity they couldn't have done a wing tweak too.

The downside is that the three auxiliary tanks reduce the hold capacity; does Aer Lingus do much trans-Atlantic freight?

Tenger · 04-03-2015 5:29pm

tippman1 wrote: »

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/35460-aer-lingus-considering-the-a321neo-lr-for-transatlantic-flights

Well done CH-Aviation.....finger on the pulse. Didn't we answer this uestion here months ago? :P

arubex wrote: »

The downside is that the three auxiliary tanks reduce the hold capacity; does Aer Lingus do much trans-Atlantic freight?

Wouldn't be a big issue really as the A321LR could be used to supplement existing A330 routes and to launch new routes. Freight remains on A330, and the A321LR can still hande a couple of cans if needed.

roundymac · 04-03-2015 6:40pm

Are those passenger numbers for an all economy configuration?The Delta 757's are 175 total, economy + business.

JCX BXC · 04-03-2015 6:42pm

roundymac wrote: »

Are those passenger numbers for an all economy configuration?The Delta 757's are 175 total, economy + business.

Yes, i assume they are max passenger capacity. Eg. The capacity of the 737-800 is 189, but not all airlines have that many seat.

Tenger · 04-03-2015 11:21pm

roundymac wrote: »

Are those passenger numbers for an all economy configuration?The Delta 757's are 175 total, economy + business.

As noted above, not too many carriers use the max capacity. (This would be the safety rated max capacity based on exits)
EI I believe have something like 12/155 on their ACL B757's.

A321LR prob has more cabin foot space if they have the modern smaller galleys. And B757 in service would have older large galleys from the time when airlines served meals to all pax.

On that point I saw this item on ebay recently.
Its a promo postcard from 1994 about EI introducing the A330. The postcards notes that "it can typically carry 235 passengers in a spacious First and Economy configuration" We are well beyond that figure now!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AER-LINGUS-Ireland-Airbus-330-A330-321-A321-airplane-aircraft-press-photos/111610158365?_trksid=p2060778.c100277.m3477&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140725134205%26meid%3D3b32fe1f6b0844c69cb99c3802338321%26pid%3D100277%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D221701209148

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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