Dark side of the ring

HanFiredFirst · 05-05-2020 4:15pm

No point in watching now since the ending is given away that the cops didn't kill him.:mad::p

Agent Coulson · 06-05-2020 5:00am

Another episode I wouldn't call a Dark side however it was a really interesting look at a man trying to make it in the wrestling business.

Also nice to see B Brian Blair always loved the Killer Bees as a kid.

Next weeks episode is The Last Ride of the Road Warriors .

Then the season finale that everyone has been waiting for The Final Days of Owen Hart.

gerrybbadd · 06-05-2020 2:29pm

OneEightSeven wrote: »

I'm enjoying this series, but I'm struggling to see what's so "dark" about the Brawl For All and David Schultz.

In regards to other stories they can document. They can cover steroids and sex abuse scandals involving Terry Garvin, Pat Patterson, and Mel Phillips. The steroids stuff would have to be at least a two-parter and they should include footage of Vince trying to intimidate the interviewers. Here's one such example:

I think there's another one where he gets in Bob Costas' face and comes across as such a deranged weirdo, but the WWE blocked it from YouTube:

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/05/10/bob-costas-vince-mcmahon-pro-wrestling-xfl

Rob Feinstein getting caught in a child predator sting operation is another story they could cover:

https://www.facebook.com/AvoidRFVideo/videos/vb.799819180036558/1038217486196725/?type=2&theater

For season 2, the producers/directors opened it up to the public to make submissions about what should be covered in the episodes. What we are getting is a result of those submissions. This is what people asked to see.

Although many of the episodes are not really "dark side" material, they are entertaining nonetheless.

Real shame to see what happened with Dr D, and to think of what could have been. He seems to be a real character, and extremely genuine.

PTH2009 · 06-05-2020 7:13pm

Takeaway and the new episode of Dark side of the ring is a weekly thing for me now

Fascinating episode tonight and first I've heard of that promotion and Herb Abrahams

I'd say Cocaine was rampant in the industry at that time. Vince McMahon liked a bit of snow apparently. Hulk and Warrior were on it during the promo

gerrybbadd · 07-05-2020 10:38am

PTH2009 wrote: »

Takeaway and the new episode of Dark side of the ring is a weekly thing for me now

Fascinating episode tonight and first I've heard of that promotion and Herb Abrahams

I'd say Cocaine was rampant in the industry at that time. Vince McMahon liked a bit of snow apparently. Hulk and Warrior were on it during the promo

I think Warrior lived on the stuff, given some of his promos! Ya, i'd bet it was rampant. Bret was interviewed recently, where he spoke about Coke being lovely stuff.

Is this the 2nd last episode of the current run?

Bounty Hunter · 07-05-2020 2:35pm

gerrybbadd wrote: »

I think Warrior lived on the stuff, given some of his promos! Ya, i'd bet it was rampant. Bret was interviewed recently, where he spoke about Coke being lovely stuff.

Is this the 2nd last episode of the current run?

3rd last I believe, Road Warriors next then Owen Hart.

Gotta admit that line about him dying doing what he loved got to me :P

Itssoeasy · 07-05-2020 4:41pm

gerrybbadd wrote: »

I think Warrior lived on the stuff, given some of his promos! Ya, i'd bet it was rampant. Bret was interviewed recently, where he spoke about Coke being lovely stuff.

Is this the 2nd last episode of the current run?

Sure listen to a ric flair, randy savage promo from the 1980s. I doubt it was just alcohol fuelled although it's more likely savage was doing drugs more than flair. Flair was hyper in his promos but made sense, wheras randy savage was on the warrior line at times.

Agent Coulson · 13-05-2020 12:16pm

The Road Warrior story was about the rise of The Road Warriors and downfall of Hawk.

The Godfather tells the legendary story of Vince taking everyone's finisher in a strip club.

What i am really liking this season is the talking heads this week they had Animal of course along with Hawk's brothers and Scott Norton, Barry Darsow, Nikita Koloff, Eddie Sharkey, Paul Ellering, Droz

PTH2009 · 13-05-2020 9:19pm

They should have had a warrior stable back in the 90s

Road Warriors and Ultimate Warrior

Itssoeasy · 13-05-2020 10:07pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The Road Warrior story was about the rise of The Road Warriors and downfall of Hawk.

The Godfather tells the legendary story of Vince taking everyone's finisher in a strip club.

What i am really liking this season is the talking heads this week they had Animal of course along with Hawk's brothers and Scott Norton, Barry Darsow, Nikita Koloff, Eddie Sharkey, Paul Ellering, Droz

when you look at the wrestlers there bar droz who are from Minnesota and include ric flair originally, ric rude and mr perfect it's a hall of fame class all on its own.

PTH2009 · 13-05-2020 11:58pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

when you look at the wrestlers there bar droz who are from Minnesota and include ric flair originally, ric rude and mr perfect it's a hall of fame class all on its own.

Brock is from Minnesota too

Blanco100 · 14-05-2020 12:13am

PTH2009 wrote: »

Brock is from Minnesota too

Brock is from South Dakota, only went to college in Minnesota

undertaker fan 88 · 14-05-2020 5:19am

Road warriors was a great episode. Brought back some memories for me

gerrybbadd · 14-05-2020 4:18pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

They should have had a warrior stable back in the 90s

Road Warriors and Ultimate Warrior

Ugh.

They were booked as so powerful, they didn't need a stable. Warrior was always a singles guy. Plus, they weren't The Road Warriors in WWE, they were the Legion of Doom.

Furthermore, it was kinda tried with Droz, and it didn't work.

Clareman · 14-05-2020 9:36pm

Really enjoy this, stuff like the state he was in at SummerSlam is a real eyeopener to what happens behind the scene.

Not sure what they're going to do with the Owen Hart bit, is it going to be how he was forced to do what he didn't want to do or the fall out from the screwjob, I'll definitely be watching. I'm surprised with the amount of footage they have from WWF events

Itssoeasy · 14-05-2020 9:39pm

Clareman wrote: »

Really enjoy this, stuff like the state he was in at SummerSlam is a real eyeopener to what happens behind the scene.

Not sure what they're going to do with the Owen Hart bit, is it going to be how he was forced to do what he didn't want to do or the fall out from the screwjob, I'll definitely be watching. I'm surprised with the amount of footage they have from WWF events

It seems the Owen hart episode will be around the days leading up to his death. They used WWE footage that was taken from a recording of sky sports in the episode this week so they aren't getting the footage from WWE itself.

The White Wolf · 14-05-2020 10:19pm

I always thought it was Hawk that was a Laurianitis, you learn something new everyday.

Have to say that was a very exciting episode, possibly best one this season.

B.A._Baracus · 16-05-2020 8:40pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It seems the Owen hart episode will be around the days leading up to his death. They used WWE footage that was taken from a recording of sky sports in the episode this week so they aren't getting the footage from WWE itself.

I remember that night very well watching live on Sky Sports. Very sad. Always will remember that line of "Owen Hart has died" from JR.

The million dollar question has been raised ever since... Should the show have ended.
I think now we all know more about the dealings of WWE (such as WWE having live smackdowns as not to breach the contract with FOX) I wonder if that played a similar part. By ending earlier could pay per view providers gained leverage over WWE since they didn't honour a full show?

Mental isn't it? As what ever the reason may be a man died and the show went on.

Itssoeasy · 16-05-2020 9:09pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I remember that night very well watching live on Sky Sports. Very sad. Always will remember that line of "Owen Hart has died" from JR.

The million dollar question has been raised ever since... Should the show have ended.
I think now we all know more about the dealings of WWE (such as WWE having live smackdowns as not to breach the contract with FOX) I wonder if that played a similar part. By ending earlier could pay per view providers gained leverage over WWE since they didn't honour a full show?

Mental isn't it? As what ever the reason may be a man died and the show went on.

Well as far as I can recall the live crowd were not told about his death. We the live audience were although the live crowd obviously saw more than we did because they didn’t show Owen in the ring or been taken out. I know Jerry lawler in hindsight his commentary hasn’t aged well but Jesus I felt sorry for him that night. His face when he comes back to the announce table is awful. He looks really shaken.

I think in this era the event would have been stopped(although it’s doubtful anything like that would even happen) but its easy for us to say it should have been stopped years after the fact.

I mean just watch Jeff Jarrett and Debra try to do an interview right after. I can only imagine the backstage chaos and mood.

Clareman · 16-05-2020 9:14pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I remember that night very well watching live on Sky Sports. Very sad. Always will remember that line of "Owen Hart has died" from JR.

The million dollar question has been raised ever since... Should the show have ended.
I think now we all know more about the dealings of WWE (such as WWE having live smackdowns as not to breach the contract with FOX) I wonder if that played a similar part. By ending earlier could pay per view providers gained leverage over WWE since they didn't honour a full show?

Mental isn't it? As what ever the reason may be a man died and the show went on.

The mentality is completely "The show must go on", no matter what happens the show goes on, that's clear with the Owen show as well as the Covid now, they were also the first show back after 9/11. I'd imagine that Vince would be at RAW even if Linda died that day

Itssoeasy · 16-05-2020 9:18pm

Clareman wrote: »

The mentality is completely "The show must go on", no matter what happens the show goes on, that's clear with the Owen show as well as the Covid now, they were also the first show back after 9/11. I'd imagine that Vince would be at RAW even if Linda died that day

Well I mean you'd hope that a immediate McMahon family member died then the family wouldn't be there and the other top people would run the show.

The show must go on isn't just a WWE thing. When David VonErich died in Japan the other brothers took barely a week off and were back wrestling in the territory as if nothing had happened. It's this weird wrestling mentality.

CastorTroy · 16-05-2020 10:05pm

I doubt Vince would be at Raw. Watching the Taker documentary, he said Vince was at the hospital with him even though Mania was still on

B.A._Baracus · 18-05-2020 10:44pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well I mean you'd hope that a immediate McMahon family member died then the family wouldn't be there and the other top people would run the show.

The show must go on isn't just a WWE thing. When David VonErich died in Japan the other brothers took barely a week off and were back wrestling in the territory as if nothing had happened. It's this weird wrestling mentality.

Maybe it's just me, but I can understand why wrestlers would go to work instantly after something. The wrestling business is so fickle. You're only as good as your last match - as they say.

Accordingly even Owen was unsure about being lowered from the ceiling on that faithful night (if true should be mentioned when it airs) so there is Owen who is in WWE years at that point and a good solid upper mid carder worrying about his spot and it's not based on paranoia.

Vince could have made the call. He doesn't have a boss to worry about. Can't use the shareholders thing as an excuse too as it was before they went public.

Monokne · 20-05-2020 9:27am

The show must go on thing is such bullsh*t. A human being was dead. The ring was cracked and his blood was in the corner. The performers were all in tears. Jarrett and Debra cut an interview immediately after and were weeping. If Stephanie had dropped from the ceiling and died on impact, the show would have stopped. We all know this.

The whole thing is the most rancid moment in wrestling history.

- Vince insisted on the quick release over and over even when told it was unsafe
- They shopped riggers until they found one willing to take the risk
- They wanted Max Mini attached to him
- They kept the show going after he was killed
- Vince sued his widow Martha to try and avoid paying out
- The Hart family faxed Marthas legal documents to Vince
- WWE released DVD's on Owen and didn't pay Martha royalties

It's obviously uncomfortable to all of us people who's supported wrestling & WWE for years, but any one of those things in isolations is bad enough however taken in totality, they really do present the most graphic image of what this business and that company is, and who the McMahons are as people. They exploited Owens life, were responsible for ending it, fought like hell to dismiss that, and then exploited it again in death.

RollieFingers · 20-05-2020 9:32am

Hopefully that's the end of people's shouts to see Owen inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame.

It's a joke of a HOF anyway, but an induction is clearly something the family don't want, as the son pointed out Owen is already honoured through his foundation.

Agent Coulson · 20-05-2020 10:51am

Martha Hart comes across really well.

Owen Hart tee now up on prowrestlingtees with all profits going to the Owen Hart foundation.

I bought one and with shipping comes to about €37.

https://www.prowrestlingtees.com/wrestler-t-shirts/owenhart/owen-hart-x-dark-side-of-the-ring-in-our-harts-forever-limited-time-only.html

seandotcomm · 20-05-2020 12:22pm

strange that it has "dark side of the ring" on it

Monokne · 20-05-2020 1:07pm

The documentary was terrific, but obviously there is only so much they can get into in 44 minutes. If you want all the details - and in terms of the negligence, it is really pretty incredible - there is plenty of further info out there.

The Lapsed Fan did a terrific piece on it. TLF is always LONG but if you're patient (like me), this is comfortably the most in depth coverage out there:

https://www.spreaker.com/user/11348916/ep-95-wwfs-over-the-edge-1999

Connie & JR had a great episode on it last year, it doesn't have quite the same level of detail particularly about the legal stuff, but Ross being a friend of Owens, it's a must listen:

https://podtail.com/en/podcast/the-jim-ross-report/the-night-we-lost-owen/

David Bixenspan did a good piece on the police report last month:

https://www.fanbyte.com/wrestling/the-owen-hart-police-report-is-a-chilling-reminder-of-wwes-history-with-worker-safety/

Martha's book is very detailed - I don't know that I would recommend it as it is just so heavy and sad given when it was written:

https://www.amazon.com/Broken-Harts-Life-Death-Owen/dp/1590770366

Lastly, WWE photographer Tom Buchanan who was on sight that night wrote about the harness used in the stunt. It is truly incredible a human being was hung by this piece of apparatus:

https://prowrestlingstories.com/news/former-wwe-photographer-tom-buchanon-details-what-went-wrong-the-night-owen-hart-passed-away/

Itssoeasy · 20-05-2020 2:07pm

RollieFingers wrote: »

Hopefully that's the end of people's shouts to see Owen inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame.

It's a joke of a HOF anyway, but an induction is clearly something the family don't want, as the son pointed out Owen is already honoured through his foundation.

I don't think fans wanting owen in the WWE hall of fame is out of spite towards his family its because in a perfect world he'd be in there because he was gifted at wrestling.

I've not watched the episode yet but I did listen to Martha hart talk on jerichos podcast and she came across very well and I think the narrative of her has happened because she had never said anything. I mean I know Owens son is on camera because there is a screenshot of him but does his daughter speak as well ?

It was a depressing story 21 years ago and to me as a wrestling fan it's not got any less depressing. It should never have happened. I assume they give more info that we don't already know ?

Monokne · 20-05-2020 3:40pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It was a depressing story 21 years ago and to me as a wrestling fan it's not got any less depressing. It should never have happened. I assume they give more info that we don't already know ?

Because of the lawsuit, everything is public record already. They cover the release shackle which has probably never been seen by most people. If you want details you don't know, the list I posted above has everything.

Itssoeasy · 20-05-2020 3:57pm

Monokne wrote: »

Because of the lawsuit, everything is public record already. They cover the release shackle which has probably never been seen by most people. If you want details you don't know, the list I posted above has everything.

Well yeah I've read most of those links and is the photographer the guy who went out and bought a similiar shackle and spoke to police ? I still don't know why the Kansas City police department don't get **** on more. I've said it before they should have closed the event down that night. They didn't cover themselves in glory.

The one think from the podcast with Jericho is that owens kids don't have a relationship with their cousins. I mean the kids shouldn't be blamed for **** their parents did.

J. Marston · 20-05-2020 4:56pm

That Owen Hart shirt is class but I think it has a huge "Dark Side of the Ring" logo on the back and that would be put me off.

Blue_Dabadee · 20-05-2020 4:58pm

I think people who want Owen Hart into WWE Hall of Fame are ignorant. She has not stopped Owen Hart going into other wrestling Hall of Fames.

Itssoeasy · 20-05-2020 5:04pm

Blue_Dabadee wrote: »

I think people who want Owen Hart into WWE Hall of Fame are ignorant. She has not stopped Owen Hart going into other wrestling Hall of Fames.

Nice sweeping generalisation there abiut calling people ignorant.

RollieFingers · 20-05-2020 6:17pm

Blue_Dabadee wrote: »

I think people who want Owen Hart into WWE Hall of Fame are ignorant. She has not stopped Owen Hart going into other wrestling Hall of Fames.

Same, the WWE HOF is a vehicle to sell tickets to the ceremony, why would she want Owen or her family involved in that?

As you said she had no problem with Owen being inducted into the Lou Thesz HOF. Martha knows her wrestling, love how she said her favourite Owen matches were against Hiroshi Hase and Makhan Singh and not the usual WWE stuff.

CastorTroy · 20-05-2020 7:37pm

I wasn't watching wrestling at the time, but seeing JR doing commentary and breaking the news reminded me of the night of Jerry Lawler's heart attack. I know it's not the same but the show continuing and having Cole continue out there.
Have there been any other situations like that? Where something happened but they had to continue as normal

Insect Overlord · 20-05-2020 7:39pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

I wasn't watching wrestling at the time, but seeing JR doing commentary and breaking the news reminded me of the night of Jerry Lawler's heart attack. I know it's not the same but the show continuing and having Cole continue out there.
Have there been any other situations like that? Where something happened but they had to continue as normal

Maybe the Droz injury? Or even Stone Cold after his match with Owen Hart.

ThePott · 20-05-2020 7:50pm

Enzo being knocked out by the ropes. Of course much more minor than the other examples but it did happen mid-PPV and there was some uncertainty. I remember a lot of people at the time thinking it was insane that WWE don't better adapt to situations like this.
Also made the unfortunate move of searching Enzo Amore on youtube for this and now Simon Gotch buries Enzo Amore is forever implanted in my recommendations.

Itssoeasy · 20-05-2020 8:03pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

I wasn't watching wrestling at the time, but seeing JR doing commentary and breaking the news reminded me of the night of Jerry Lawler's heart attack. I know it's not the same but the show continuing and having Cole continue out there.
Have there been any other situations like that? Where something happened but they had to continue as normal

Austin maybe at summerslam although while Austin was clearly injured it wasn't as serious. If the droz and dlo match had been on raw instead of smackdown then it would have been serious. I honestly think they now use the reaction for Owen for situations that don't warrant it.

J. Marston · 20-05-2020 8:03pm

ThePott wrote: »

Enzo being knocked out by the ropes. Of course much more minor than the other examples but it did happen mid-PPV and there was some uncertainty. I remember a lot of people at the time thinking it was insane that WWE don't better adapt to situations like this.
Also made the unfortunate move of searching Enzo Amore on youtube for this and now Simon Gotch buries Enzo Amore is forever implanted in my recommendations.

Same with Kairi at TLC. She was left out there with a fairly obvious concussion. Asuka and Becky adapted best they could.

Charlotte...didn't.

PTH2009 · 20-05-2020 9:00pm

enjoyed the episode and the series

Owen Hart 100% deserves to go into the WWE HOF but sadly wont happen.

The whole situation is pretty grim and paints Vince/WWE in a bad bad way. Im sure there was shock around the locker room when it happened and everyone was prob on auto pilot and going around in a zombie like state

Clareman · 20-05-2020 9:07pm

That was a strange episode for me, Owen was a great lad, great father, looking to make money to spend time with his family, on the road, stuck in no-man's land gimmick wise, showed him doing the descent thing, then shows the new harness, gave the reason for the new harness. It kind of igored the fact that there was a settlement of ~20 million

It's a terrible tragedy and an accident, but I don't know why they kept on going on about the lowest cost supplier, EVERY organisation looks for the best deal which is almost always the cheapest deal and wasn't there a story where if something looked really dangerous that Vince would do it, I seem to remember reading that he did the famous Shawn arrival on zip line in practise when Shawn said it was too dangerous.

The only thing that is stopping Owen being in the hall of fame is that his wife doesn't want him to be in it which is fair enough.

Monokne · 20-05-2020 11:36pm

Clareman wrote: »

That was a strange episode for me, Owen was a great lad, great father, looking to make money to spend time with his family, on the road, stuck in no-man's land gimmick wise, showed him doing the descent thing, then shows the new harness, gave the reason for the new harness. It kind of igored the fact that there was a settlement of ~20 million

It's a terrible tragedy and an accident, but I don't know why they kept on going on about the lowest cost supplier, EVERY organisation looks for the best deal which is almost always the cheapest deal and wasn't there a story where if something looked really dangerous that Vince would do it, I seem to remember reading that he did the famous Shawn arrival on zip line in practise when Shawn said it was too dangerous.

The only thing that is stopping Owen being in the hall of fame is that his wife doesn't want him to be in it which is fair enough.

They asked the original rigger to do it and he told them it was not safe.

They then asked an inexperienced rigger to do it, who agreed to do it and at a substantially cheaper rate

The original rigger came back to them and offered to do the stunt at the cheaper rate, because he was so concerned by the rigger they were using.

So the reason people are going on about it is that their determination to pinch pennies and make the stunt more spectacular is directly responsible for Owen Hart's death.

764dak · 21-05-2020 1:42pm

Monokne wrote: »

The ring was cracked and his blood was in the corner.

The blood was there from Sunday Night Heat.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbc2l8

764dak · 21-05-2020 2:47pm

This is what the rigger (Bobby Talbert) said:

words can’t express how sad...it was preventable which is the worst part. During the 7 yr long court case it was discovered by the engineer who originally design the release that it had a flow in the Quality control portion during machining process. There were 2 previous accidental releases with this particular shackle in 95 and 97. The engineer told the manufacturer if they weren’t going to change it they should at least put a flyer in each box stating these have been known to prematurely release. They refused. Stating losses this far didn’t warrant a complete retooling. It’s the same release we were using on sting and DDP at the time. Also the most expensive one on the market and had a rating of 3600lbs. It was really, really bad...

I 100% promise there was no conspiracy. I’ve read some of the stuff online and it seems no one went and read the case files. Not 1 has been accurate. A column writer for a well know paper wrote one and when I wrote to him to ask him about his inaccurate comments and why as a journalist he obviously did no research and his response was “I’m responsible for 5 columns a week ,I don’t have time to research every one of them”...... 1 lady testified under oath that she saw me cut the line from where she was sitting in the audience. Another guy said he overheard a conversation with Vince an I just before the match talking about ending the hart family. I didn’t meet Vince till after this event and no conversations ever took place with anyone and me about the Hart’s. If you have to choose one of the guys to be a fan of Owen is a good one. He was good guy as well as a great wrestler.

These are from the comment section under one of his videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrKSLckKb7g

Monokne · 21-05-2020 10:05pm

764dak wrote: »

The blood was there from Sunday Night Heat.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbc2l8

I knew there was blood on heat but always assumed since his widow said he had bled in the ring, she would know.

Itssoeasy · 21-05-2020 10:37pm

Monokne wrote: »

I knew there was blood on heat but always assumed since his widow said he had bled in the ring, she would know.

Well he died of blunt force trauma and he had internal bleeding and isn't there a story from jerry lawler about how Owens arm was broken but no blood ? It may not have been lawler but that story is out there.

But in the episode the police photo showing the blood was probably a case of whoever was doing it saw the blood and took a picture.

briany · 21-05-2020 11:05pm

The jury's still out on Vince McMahon for me. I don't know if it'll ever come back with a verdict. That snippet of him at that hearing (?) where he says to the woman, "I resent your tone" makes him come off as little more than a cold and callous businessman who ultimately looks at the deaths and injuries of his performers such as Owen as being not a tragedy but a liability to be wriggled out of.

But, on the other hand, other testimonies about Vince do paint him as caring and having a personal relationship with his performers.

Blanco100 · 22-05-2020 12:40am

briany wrote: »

The jury's still out on Vince McMahon for me. I don't know if it'll ever come back with a verdict. That snippet of him at that hearing (?) where he says to the woman, "I resent your tone" makes him come off as little more than a cold and callous businessman who ultimately looks at the deaths and injuries of his performers such as Owen as being not a tragedy but a liability to be wriggled out of.

But, on the other hand, other testimonies about Vince do paint him as caring and having a personal relationship with his performers.

To use an analogy, always see McMahon's relationship with his performers as akin to a dealer and his users. No matter how badly he can ever treat them (and deep down he knows he can treat them like sh*t, hes the only real show in town) they will always come back for more if the money is right.

Unless they make it big in acting or whatever, they will always be on the hook to him and looking for their next fix of "nostalgia", "entrance pop", basically adulation and attention these guys can only find in wrestling.

And despite moments of showing he does actually care (attending the hospital with taker for instance), I wouldn't for one second think he sees these guys as anything other than commodities/pieces of furniture that he can move around.

They will always 100% fall into line, albeit eventually. Barring Rock who made a name in the mainstream and doesn't need WWE for anything really, what is a guy like CM Punk going to do for instance? Even Vince knows it, he can pretend like he doesn't need wrestling all that much, but he will no doubt be back when he starts needing to scratch that itch of self importance/buzz of attention that he needs.

Its a fix for most of these guys, and Vince knows it.

Monokne · 22-05-2020 10:00am

If the jury is out on Vince after:

- Using Eddies death for profit
- Using Romans cancer for profit
- Putting show on in Saudi Arabia 21 days after they literally cut a journalist into pieces for challenging their propaganda
- Being partly responsible for Owen's death then suing his widow
- Fostering an environment that required steroid & painpill use for decades resulting in the death of tens of wrestlers
- Firing scores of people during a f*cking pandemic to protect his all time record profit margin
- Folding the XFL & screwing all the people owed money just so he could secretly try and buy it back out of bankruptcy and reopen later

Exactly what would he have to for the jury to come in?

He is a piece of sh*t.

Dark side of the ring

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