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Dark side of the ring

undertaker fan 88

The second series started tonight in the US with a double episode on the benoit murder suicide.. My god what a show. Quiet possibly the greatest wrestling show I have ever seen. This episode blew series 1 out of the water.

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Itssoeasy

Monokne wrote: »

Because of the lawsuit, everything is public record already. They cover the release shackle which has probably never been seen by most people. If you want details you don't know, the list I posted above has everything.

Well yeah I've read most of those links and is the photographer the guy who went out and bought a similiar shackle and spoke to police ? I still don't know why the Kansas City police department don't get **** on more. I've said it before they should have closed the event down that night. They didn't cover themselves in glory.

The one think from the podcast with Jericho is that owens kids don't have a relationship with their cousins. I mean the kids shouldn't be blamed for **** their parents did.

J. Marston

That Owen Hart shirt is class but I think it has a huge "Dark Side of the Ring" logo on the back and that would be put me off.

Blue_Dabadee

I think people who want Owen Hart into WWE Hall of Fame are ignorant. She has not stopped Owen Hart going into other wrestling Hall of Fames.

Itssoeasy

Blue_Dabadee wrote: »

I think people who want Owen Hart into WWE Hall of Fame are ignorant. She has not stopped Owen Hart going into other wrestling Hall of Fames.

Nice sweeping generalisation there abiut calling people ignorant.

RollieFingers

Blue_Dabadee wrote: »

I think people who want Owen Hart into WWE Hall of Fame are ignorant. She has not stopped Owen Hart going into other wrestling Hall of Fames.

Same, the WWE HOF is a vehicle to sell tickets to the ceremony, why would she want Owen or her family involved in that?

As you said she had no problem with Owen being inducted into the Lou Thesz HOF. Martha knows her wrestling, love how she said her favourite Owen matches were against Hiroshi Hase and Makhan Singh and not the usual WWE stuff.

CastorTroy

I wasn't watching wrestling at the time, but seeing JR doing commentary and breaking the news reminded me of the night of Jerry Lawler's heart attack. I know it's not the same but the show continuing and having Cole continue out there.
Have there been any other situations like that? Where something happened but they had to continue as normal

Insect Overlord

CastorTroy wrote: »

I wasn't watching wrestling at the time, but seeing JR doing commentary and breaking the news reminded me of the night of Jerry Lawler's heart attack. I know it's not the same but the show continuing and having Cole continue out there.
Have there been any other situations like that? Where something happened but they had to continue as normal

Maybe the Droz injury? Or even Stone Cold after his match with Owen Hart.

ThePott

Enzo being knocked out by the ropes. Of course much more minor than the other examples but it did happen mid-PPV and there was some uncertainty. I remember a lot of people at the time thinking it was insane that WWE don't better adapt to situations like this.
Also made the unfortunate move of searching Enzo Amore on youtube for this and now Simon Gotch buries Enzo Amore is forever implanted in my recommendations.

Itssoeasy

CastorTroy wrote: »

I wasn't watching wrestling at the time, but seeing JR doing commentary and breaking the news reminded me of the night of Jerry Lawler's heart attack. I know it's not the same but the show continuing and having Cole continue out there.
Have there been any other situations like that? Where something happened but they had to continue as normal

Austin maybe at summerslam although while Austin was clearly injured it wasn't as serious. If the droz and dlo match had been on raw instead of smackdown then it would have been serious. I honestly think they now use the reaction for Owen for situations that don't warrant it.

J. Marston

ThePott wrote: »

Enzo being knocked out by the ropes. Of course much more minor than the other examples but it did happen mid-PPV and there was some uncertainty. I remember a lot of people at the time thinking it was insane that WWE don't better adapt to situations like this.
Also made the unfortunate move of searching Enzo Amore on youtube for this and now Simon Gotch buries Enzo Amore is forever implanted in my recommendations.

Same with Kairi at TLC. She was left out there with a fairly obvious concussion. Asuka and Becky adapted best they could.

Charlotte...didn't.

PTH2009

enjoyed the episode and the series

Owen Hart 100% deserves to go into the WWE HOF but sadly wont happen.

The whole situation is pretty grim and paints Vince/WWE in a bad bad way. Im sure there was shock around the locker room when it happened and everyone was prob on auto pilot and going around in a zombie like state

Clareman

That was a strange episode for me, Owen was a great lad, great father, looking to make money to spend time with his family, on the road, stuck in no-man's land gimmick wise, showed him doing the descent thing, then shows the new harness, gave the reason for the new harness. It kind of igored the fact that there was a settlement of ~20 million

It's a terrible tragedy and an accident, but I don't know why they kept on going on about the lowest cost supplier, EVERY organisation looks for the best deal which is almost always the cheapest deal and wasn't there a story where if something looked really dangerous that Vince would do it, I seem to remember reading that he did the famous Shawn arrival on zip line in practise when Shawn said it was too dangerous.

The only thing that is stopping Owen being in the hall of fame is that his wife doesn't want him to be in it which is fair enough.

Monokne

Clareman wrote: »

That was a strange episode for me, Owen was a great lad, great father, looking to make money to spend time with his family, on the road, stuck in no-man's land gimmick wise, showed him doing the descent thing, then shows the new harness, gave the reason for the new harness. It kind of igored the fact that there was a settlement of ~20 million

It's a terrible tragedy and an accident, but I don't know why they kept on going on about the lowest cost supplier, EVERY organisation looks for the best deal which is almost always the cheapest deal and wasn't there a story where if something looked really dangerous that Vince would do it, I seem to remember reading that he did the famous Shawn arrival on zip line in practise when Shawn said it was too dangerous.

The only thing that is stopping Owen being in the hall of fame is that his wife doesn't want him to be in it which is fair enough.

They asked the original rigger to do it and he told them it was not safe.

They then asked an inexperienced rigger to do it, who agreed to do it and at a substantially cheaper rate

The original rigger came back to them and offered to do the stunt at the cheaper rate, because he was so concerned by the rigger they were using.

So the reason people are going on about it is that their determination to pinch pennies and make the stunt more spectacular is directly responsible for Owen Hart's death.

764dak

Monokne wrote: »

The ring was cracked and his blood was in the corner.

The blood was there from Sunday Night Heat.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbc2l8

764dak

This is what the rigger (Bobby Talbert) said:

words can’t express how sad...it was preventable which is the worst part. During the 7 yr long court case it was discovered by the engineer who originally design the release that it had a flow in the Quality control portion during machining process. There were 2 previous accidental releases with this particular shackle in 95 and 97. The engineer told the manufacturer if they weren’t going to change it they should at least put a flyer in each box stating these have been known to prematurely release. They refused. Stating losses this far didn’t warrant a complete retooling. It’s the same release we were using on sting and DDP at the time. Also the most expensive one on the market and had a rating of 3600lbs. It was really, really bad...

I 100% promise there was no conspiracy. I’ve read some of the stuff online and it seems no one went and read the case files. Not 1 has been accurate. A column writer for a well know paper wrote one and when I wrote to him to ask him about his inaccurate comments and why as a journalist he obviously did no research and his response was “I’m responsible for 5 columns a week ,I don’t have time to research every one of them”...... 1 lady testified under oath that she saw me cut the line from where she was sitting in the audience. Another guy said he overheard a conversation with Vince an I just before the match talking about ending the hart family. I didn’t meet Vince till after this event and no conversations ever took place with anyone and me about the Hart’s. If you have to choose one of the guys to be a fan of Owen is a good one. He was good guy as well as a great wrestler.

These are from the comment section under one of his videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrKSLckKb7g

Monokne

764dak wrote: »

The blood was there from Sunday Night Heat.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbc2l8

I knew there was blood on heat but always assumed since his widow said he had bled in the ring, she would know.

Itssoeasy

Monokne wrote: »

I knew there was blood on heat but always assumed since his widow said he had bled in the ring, she would know.

Well he died of blunt force trauma and he had internal bleeding and isn't there a story from jerry lawler about how Owens arm was broken but no blood ? It may not have been lawler but that story is out there.

But in the episode the police photo showing the blood was probably a case of whoever was doing it saw the blood and took a picture.

briany

The jury's still out on Vince McMahon for me. I don't know if it'll ever come back with a verdict. That snippet of him at that hearing (?) where he says to the woman, "I resent your tone" makes him come off as little more than a cold and callous businessman who ultimately looks at the deaths and injuries of his performers such as Owen as being not a tragedy but a liability to be wriggled out of.

But, on the other hand, other testimonies about Vince do paint him as caring and having a personal relationship with his performers.

Blanco100

briany wrote: »

The jury's still out on Vince McMahon for me. I don't know if it'll ever come back with a verdict. That snippet of him at that hearing (?) where he says to the woman, "I resent your tone" makes him come off as little more than a cold and callous businessman who ultimately looks at the deaths and injuries of his performers such as Owen as being not a tragedy but a liability to be wriggled out of.

But, on the other hand, other testimonies about Vince do paint him as caring and having a personal relationship with his performers.

To use an analogy, always see McMahon's relationship with his performers as akin to a dealer and his users. No matter how badly he can ever treat them (and deep down he knows he can treat them like sh*t, hes the only real show in town) they will always come back for more if the money is right.

Unless they make it big in acting or whatever, they will always be on the hook to him and looking for their next fix of "nostalgia", "entrance pop", basically adulation and attention these guys can only find in wrestling.

And despite moments of showing he does actually care (attending the hospital with taker for instance), I wouldn't for one second think he sees these guys as anything other than commodities/pieces of furniture that he can move around.

They will always 100% fall into line, albeit eventually. Barring Rock who made a name in the mainstream and doesn't need WWE for anything really, what is a guy like CM Punk going to do for instance? Even Vince knows it, he can pretend like he doesn't need wrestling all that much, but he will no doubt be back when he starts needing to scratch that itch of self importance/buzz of attention that he needs.

Its a fix for most of these guys, and Vince knows it.

Monokne

If the jury is out on Vince after:

- Using Eddies death for profit
- Using Romans cancer for profit
- Putting show on in Saudi Arabia 21 days after they literally cut a journalist into pieces for challenging their propaganda
- Being partly responsible for Owen's death then suing his widow
- Fostering an environment that required steroid & painpill use for decades resulting in the death of tens of wrestlers
- Firing scores of people during a f*cking pandemic to protect his all time record profit margin
- Folding the XFL & screwing all the people owed money just so he could secretly try and buy it back out of bankruptcy and reopen later

Exactly what would he have to for the jury to come in?

He is a piece of sh*t.

montyrebel

wonder how much martha was paid for this and will she try and use it to get another payday from vince so he can place owen into the HOF

LineOfBeauty

montyrebel wrote: »

wonder how much martha was paid for this and will she try and use it to get another payday from vince so he can place owen into the HOF

What planet are you on? "another payday from Vince" like he's just handing out money rather than he negligently killed her husband on ppv, continued with the ppv, sued the widow, then turned the family against her to stop it from going to trial where he would've had to pay out double what he did pay.

Like think about it for a second, and realise that the Hall of Fame that exists literally solely in the mind of this sociopath is not important to people who aren't wrapped up in the cult of McMahon and that the stuff Martha has done to honor Owen is far more positive and fitting a tribute to him than a few fake tears from Triple H, a gaudy ring and a patronising pat on the back ever will be.

Wuff Wuff

montyrebel wrote: »

wonder how much martha was paid for this and will she try and use it to get another payday from vince so he can place owen into the HOF

so edgy :rolleyes:

RocketRaccoon

764dak wrote: »

The blood was there from Sunday Night Heat.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbc2l8

That's the opposite corner to the one Owen hit I think.

Monokne

montyrebel wrote: »

wonder how much martha was paid for this and will she try and use it to get another payday from vince so he can place owen into the HOF

:rolleyes:

Monokne

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

That's the opposite corner to the one Owen hit I think.

His wife has said repeatedly this week "Owens blood was in the ring". It seems likely she would know. Perhaps it was a smaller spot elsewhere if not the big spot everyone has seen.

Matmania

Only starting watching this recently. Knew off alot of the bad side of wrestling but this series has been excellent. Fav one is the Bret Hart one. The early days of wrestling left alot of tragedy behind. Macho man Elizabeth one very sad.

The White Wolf

montyrebel wrote: »

wonder how much martha was paid for this and will she try and use it to get another payday from vince so he can place owen into the HOF

Tongue in cheek I imagine.....or hope.

It's not just Martha either, her kids made their opinion very clear as well. It was hard to watch and sobering I'll never ask again why Owen isn't in the WWE HoF when their father was ripped from them when they were kids.

I heard the story before but it's quite shocking to hear again how a Hart family member stole documents and fed them to Vince's team. Brings dysfunction to a whole other level.

Itssoeasy

montyrebel wrote: »

wonder how much martha was paid for this and will she try and use it to get another payday from vince so he can place owen into the HOF

Not a hope in hell of that happening. It's been clear for years that Martha hart wants nothing to do with the WWE and let's be honest it's not surprising. We as fans didn't know how their children felt about it and whether they may have a slightly different view point. Well we heard and saw both kids on screen make it very clear on their positions. So it was on life support before and now time of death for Owen hart being in the WWE HOF was May, 2020. Its over.

Monokne

The White Wolf wrote: »

Tongue in cheek I imagine.....or hope.

It's not just Martha either, her kids made their opinion very clear as well. It was hard to watch and sobering I'll never ask again why Owen isn't in the WWE HoF when their father was ripped from them when they were kids.

I heard the story before but it's quite shocking to hear again how a Hart family member stole documents and fed them to Vince's team. Brings dysfunction to a whole other level.

Important to note that it was Ellie Hart, Nattie's mother. Jim got a job scouting talent for WWE out of it, although he lost it pretty quickly because the suit was settled and he was so drugged out of it.