Graham Linehan given police warning for "transphobia"

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 4:28pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Absolutely sick of this nonsense debate. Load of headers on all sides of it.

Have you considered staying away from the Daily Mail and a few threads here? It doesn't really come up very often as a hot issue for most people.

Calhoun · 10-02-2019 4:37pm

It's becoming a bigger issue for people as the the focus is shifting more and more onto kids.

I think it's the rock they will perish on but let them at it.

Calhoun · 10-02-2019 4:38pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Yes. That alone. As reported.

It interesting how many woke males are opposing the mumsnet feminist position.

What's the mumsnet position?

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 4:55pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Yes. That alone. As reported.

What reports are these? The reports I saw refer to "a campaign of targeted harassment" and "used accounts in two names to harass, defame and publish derogatory and defamatory tweets" and "stating she was racist, xenophobic and a crook" and "a fake lawyer".

That’s just a little bit more than "that alone" as you stated above, isn't it?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It interesting how many woke males are opposing the mumsnet feminist position.

Doubly woke, I'll have you know. I woke at 6.30am, went to the loo, read a bit, then went back asleep and woke again at around 9am. So I'm definitely doubly woke today.

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 4:57pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Convenient for the ruling classes that these kind of things are the political debate, alright.

In fairness, you seem to be making a much bigger deal about this yourself than any of the 'ruling classes'. You're making the debate.

Gravelly · 10-02-2019 4:58pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How ****in' hard is it too get someone's name right?

How often do you hear someone insisting on refering to Tom Cruise as as Thomas Mapother the Fourth just because it's his 'real' name?

Do you think anyone that calls him Thomas Mapother, or refers to him as such on twitter, should be arrested?

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 5:01pm

Calhoun wrote: »

It's becoming a bigger issue for people as the the focus is shifting more and more onto kids.

The focus of what? The Daily Mail?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-02-2019 5:04pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Do you think anyone that calls him Thomas Mapother, or refers to him as such on twitter, should be arrested?

Of course not! My point is he's being an attention-seeking dickhead, not that he's breaking the law.

FTA69 · 10-02-2019 5:13pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you considered staying away from the Daily Mail and a few threads here? It doesn't really come up very often as a hot issue for most people.

Unfortunately I’ve the bad luck to be a trade unionist who has to interact with the wider London left and I never hear the f*cking end of it.

“Oh we don’t want an article in that paper cos they had a transphobe on it.”

“Is your meeting going to be a safe space for transpeople?”

A mate of mine was asked to speak at a meeting in a university about organising migrant cleaners and they all kicked off introducing themselves with their pronouns. My mate didn’t and a few people got the hump with him accusing him of being transphobic etc.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 5:13pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

In fairness, you seem to be making a much bigger deal about this yourself than any of the 'ruling classes'. You're making the debate.

It’s just me Andrew. Nobody else cares.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 5:15pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The focus of what? The Daily Mail?

It didn’t work did it, me not linking to the DM.

Yer Da sells Avon · 10-02-2019 5:16pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Absolutely sick of this nonsense debate. Load of headers on all sides of it.

It's very easily avoidable. There wouldn't be a debate if people were prepared to live and let live.

"There just bloke's in skirts as far as im concerned" - Your opinion doesn't matter, mate. You're just some incurious, barely literate idiot on the internet. Try being a nice idiot.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 5:16pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How ****in' hard is it too get someone's name right?

How often do you hear someone insisting on refering to Tom Cruise as as Thomas Mapother the Fourth just because it's his 'real' name?

Is it? Odd name that. Still if you got it wrong would you be arrested?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 5:19pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

It's very easily avoidable. There wouldn't be a debate if people were prepared to live and let live.

"There just bloke's in skirts as far as im concerned" - Your opinion doesn't matter, mate. You're just some incurious, barely literate idiot on the internet. Try being a nice idiot.

Living and let living is clearly not happening when certain opinions get you arrested though. And it’s not just a libertarian position is it, the State is clearly prosecuting individuals for crime think.

Yer Da sells Avon · 10-02-2019 5:38pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Living and let living is clearly not happening when certain opinions get you arrested though. And it’s not just a libertarian position is it, the State is clearly prosecuting individuals for crime think.

Nobody's being arrested for thinking anything. They're being arrested because of things that they're saying. Unless they're actively harassing the person, I don't personally think they should be arrested at all, but let's not ignore the fact that they're saying those things for no reason other than to cause hurt and upset. Live and let live. Trans people exist, whether you like it or not. Their existence doesn't impact upon your life in any way. If you're not prepared to listen and learn, and would prefer to remain ignorant about the torment they go through, that's entirely a matter for yourself. I'm fairly ill-informed about trans people too - which is why my opinions on the topic don't extend beyond the suggestion that it's best not to be an arsehole towards people whose lives have been a struggle.

Robert Wolfe · 10-02-2019 5:46pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

It's very easily avoidable. There wouldn't be a debate if people were prepared to live and let live.

"There just bloke's in skirts as far as im concerned" - Your opinion doesn't matter, mate. You're just some incurious, barely literate idiot on the internet. Try being a nice idiot.

Bit touchy there eh? What's the matter, mad angry because you'll never pass as a woman?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 5:47pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Nobody's being arrested for thinking anything.

You’re right but only because the technology to read thought isn’t there I suppose.

They're being arrested because of things that they're saying. Unless they're actively harassing the person, I don't personally think they should be arrested at all, but let's not ignore the fact that they're saying those things for no reason other than to cause hurt and upset.

They are also saying that they don’t believe trans ideology, which is why they are being arrested.

Live and let live. Trans people exist, whether you like it or not. Their existence doesn't impact upon your life in any way.

Trans ideology absolutely does affect female spaces however, which is in part what this arrested woman was arguing against.

If you're not prepared to listen and learn,

Meaning agree with you or shut up.

and would prefer to remain ignorant about the torment they go through, that's entirely a matter for yourself.

Meaning agree with you or shut up. Also an appeal to emotion.

I'm fairly ill-informed about trans people too - which is why my opinions on the topic don't extend beyond the suggestion that it's best not to be an arsehole towards people whose lives have been a struggle.

I’m not ill informed about trans ideology at all, I just don’t agree with it in total that’s all. In fact I’m really only opposed to self identification because that in fact does have wider societal impact, particularly on biological female spaces and sports.

padd b1975 · 10-02-2019 5:50pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Unfortunately I’ve the bad luck to be a trade unionist who has to interact with the wider London left and I never hear the f*cking end of it.

“Oh we don’t want an article in that paper cos they had a transphobe on it.”

“Is your meeting going to be a safe space for transpeople?”

A mate of mine was asked to speak at a meeting in a university about organising migrant cleaners and they all kicked off introducing themselves with their pronouns. My mate didn’t and a few people got the hump with him accusing him of being transphobic etc.

Ah FFS!

ceadaoin. · 10-02-2019 5:55pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Nobody's being arrested for thinking anything. They're being arrested because of things that they're saying. Unless they're actively harassing the person, I don't personally think they should be arrested at all, but let's not ignore the fact that they're saying those things for no reason other than to cause hurt and upset. Live and let live. Trans people exist, whether you like it or not. Their existence doesn't impact upon your life in any way. If you're not prepared to listen and learn, and would prefer to remain ignorant about the torment they go through, that's entirely a matter for yourself. I'm fairly ill-informed about trans people too - which is why my opinions on the topic don't extend beyond the suggestion that it's best not to be an arsehole towards people whose lives have been a struggle.

They're not saying those things to hurt and harrass anyone. This woman in particular was trying to debate the issues around allowing any male who says they are a female into women's spaces. This does impact on the lives of many women, why can't they discuss it? She said that trans women aren't female, which is true.

this Stephanie person treats the police like their own personal security team and spends their time constantly threatening people with legal action for the smallest things. Even trans women have been targeted as "transphobes"

Also, a man received a call from police to "check his thinking" after liking or retweeting a limerick that was supposedly transphobic. So yes, they are policing thoughts. Do you think that's what the police should spend their time doing when they don't even respond to calls of actual crimes, including domestic violence?

Yer Da sells Avon · 10-02-2019 5:58pm

Robert Wolfe wrote: »

What's the matter, mad angry because you'll never pass as a woman?

I'd make a better effort than your mother did anyway, Rereginald.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Also an appeal to emotion.

Bit of empathy never hurt anyone.

Robert Wolfe · 10-02-2019 6:00pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I'd make a better effort than your mother did anyway, Rereginald.

Sure buddy. Maybe lay off the hormones for a bit?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-02-2019 6:22pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Is it? Odd name that. Still if you got it wrong would you be arrested?

Sure is. Had to Google the spelling of it though and didn't know there were three prior to him.

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 6:22pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Unfortunately I’ve the bad luck to be a trade unionist who has to interact with the wider London left and I never hear the f*cking end of it.

“Oh we don’t want an article in that paper cos they had a transphobe on it.”

“Is your meeting going to be a safe space for transpeople?”

A mate of mine was asked to speak at a meeting in a university about organising migrant cleaners and they all kicked off introducing themselves with their pronouns. My mate didn’t and a few people got the hump with him accusing him of being transphobic etc.

Is this in Ireland or the UK? It really doesn't seem to be a big issue over here, beyond a few posters here.

Maybe you should speak to your union rep if you're being put into inappropriate situations at your workplace?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It’s just me Andrew. Nobody else cares.

Slight exaggeration all right, but it's not really an issue that comes up often with family or friends, or in mainstream media here, despite Prime Time's best efforts to import the controversy from the UK.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It didn’t work did it, me not linking to the DM.

I suppose that was the risk you took when you tried positioning Mumsnet as the centrist voice of reason, instead of the hotbed of activism on one extremity of this particular issue, in bed with Glinner.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

They're not saying those things to hurt and harrass anyone. This woman in particular was trying to debate the issues around allowing any male who says they are a female into women's spaces. This does impact on the lives of many women, why can't they discuss it? She said that trans women aren't female, which is true.

From a quick look through the tweets linked above, it's a bit more than 'debating the issues around women's spaces'.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Living and let living is clearly not happening when certain opinions get you arrested though. And it’s not just a libertarian position is it, the State is clearly prosecuting individuals for crime think.

Sorry, I though you said above that the sole reason for the police arrest (not prosecution) was deadnaming "that alone" but now you're saying that it is 'crime think'? Which is it? [Based on the report I read, it is actually neither of those.]

And just to be clear, what 'State' are you talking about here - the UK, right?

ceadaoin. · 10-02-2019 7:01pm

Changing your identity is a great way to hide a criminal past. Even better if you can punish people who make a connection between former names and criminal convictions. This is the terrible harrassment that Stephanie is constantly complaining about.

What could possibly go wrong with a system that allows people to hide their dodgy past? I'm sure no criminals would ever take advantage of it.

Oh but wait. Here is case in Ireland where someone tried to have their charges cancelled claiming that the person literally doesn't exist anymore so therefore cannot be held culpable

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/10/03/4162881-judge-to-consider-legal-points-in-mayo-case-involving-transgender-person/

freshpopcorn · 10-02-2019 7:04pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Changing your identity is a great way to hide a criminal past. Even better if you can punish people who make a connection between former names and criminal convictions. What could possibly go wrong with a system that allows people to hide their dodgy past? I'm sure no criminals would ever take advantage of it.

It will be interesting to see what will happen with Ian Huntley.
From what I know they are talks of him changing genders. So l, he may be transferred feŕed to a female prison.

ceadaoin. · 10-02-2019 7:07pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what will happen with Ian Huntley.
From what I know they are talks of him changing genders. So l, he may be transferred feŕed to a female prison.

I read that there are plans to set up specific facilities for trans gender prisoners. The likes of Huntley won't be happy with that I'm sure but it's the best solution IMO.

super_furry · 10-02-2019 7:09pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what will happen with Ian Huntley.
From what I know they are talks of him changing genders. So l, he may be transferred feŕed to a female prison.

I really don't think that it's ever going to be a massive issue outside of some outlying cases, but if it is, just have a trans wing in a women's prison.

I dunno, the whole trans right's fight is so sad to me. I mean I personally have only ever known one trans person and she ended up taking her life. They have such a hard time of it across every part of their lives, for me, if you can make things even slightly easier for them by using their preferred pronouns and their names, why wouldn't you?

freshpopcorn · 10-02-2019 7:15pm

super_furry wrote: »

I really don't think that it's ever going to be a massive issue outside of some outlying cases, but if it is, just have a trans wing in a women's prison.

I dunno, the whole trans right's fight is so sad to me. I mean I personally have only ever known one trans person and she ended up taking her life. They have such a hard time of it across every part of their lives, for me, if you can make things even slightly easier for them by using their preferred pronouns and their names, why wouldn't you?

I just thinking it will be interesting to see what will happen with trans gender prisoners in the future and at what point do you allow them to change prisons/etc.
Sorry to hear about your friend.

Candamir · 10-02-2019 7:15pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Changing your identity is a great way to hide a criminal past. Even better if you can punish people who make a connection between former names and criminal convictions l. What could possibly go wrong with a system that allows people to hide their dodgy past? I'm sure no criminals would ever take advantage of it.

Oh but wait. Here is case in Ireland where someone tried to have their charges cancelled claiming that the person literally doesn't exist anymore so therefore cannot be held culpable

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/10/03/4162881-judge-to-consider-legal-points-in-mayo-case-involving-transgender-person/

Very good point. Stephanie seems to be a vile individual. Nothing to do with the fact that she’s transgender.

On a completely separate note, here’s a link referencing a man in the UK who has several criminal convictions, including an incident where another man ended up bleeding from the back of his head after an affray with a golf club.
https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-transgender-lawyer-suing-graham-linehan-was-convicted-threatening-man-golf

:rolleyes:

Candamir · 10-02-2019 7:19pm

super_furry wrote: »

I really don't think that it's ever going to be a massive issue outside of some outlying cases, but if it is, just have a trans wing in a women's prison.

I dunno, the whole trans right's fight is so sad to me. I mean I personally have only ever known one trans person and she ended up taking her life. They have such a hard time of it across every part of their lives, for me, if you can make things even slightly easier for them by using their preferred pronouns and their names, why wouldn't you?

I honestly think a lot of trans people wouldn’t be happy about being accommodated in a ‘trans wing’ - surely that just further marginalises and segregated them?
A similar arguement could be made for having trans only catagories in sport competitions - I doubly many would be happy with that, but undoubtedly would be fairer than some of the current arrangements, which I think are very unfair on biologically female athletes.

ceadaoin. · 10-02-2019 7:21pm

Candamir wrote: »

Very good point. Stephanie seems to be a vile individual. Nothing to do with the fact that she’s transgender.

On a completely separate note, here’s a link referencing a man in the UK who has several criminal convictions, including an incident where another man ended up bleeding from the back of his head after an affray with a golf club.
https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-transgender-lawyer-suing-graham-linehan-was-convicted-threatening-man-golf

:rolleyes:

Stephanie Hayden, who is also suing Mumsnet and recently sued a transsexual solicitor, now identifies as a lawyer.

One eyed Jack · 10-02-2019 7:33pm

super_furry wrote: »

They have such a hard time of it across every part of their lives, for me, if you can make things even slightly easier for them by using their preferred pronouns and their names, why wouldn't you?

If only it were so simple, but it isn’t, and you’re undoubtedly aware that it isn’t so simple. Everyone in one way or another has such a hard time of it across every part of their lives, but none of those people have specific accommodations in law which compel other people to refer to them as they prefer to be referred to. If trans advocates could make those people’s lives easier by not compelling them to refer to trans people as they prefer to be referred to, then not only would they be making those people’s lives easier, but they’d be making their own lives easier too.

Or does the concept of “treat others as you would like to be treated” not equally apply to trans people as much as it applies to anyone else?

ceadaoin. · 10-02-2019 7:36pm

Here is another recent case of a police contacting a 74 year woman over her thought crimes. Can anyone point out anything incorrect or offensive about what she wrote? It also mentions the man who was contacted about a "hate incident".

Margaret Nelson is a 74-year-old woman who lives in a village in Suffolk. On Monday morning she was woken by a telephone call. It was an officer from Suffolk police. The officer wanted to speak to Mrs Nelson about her Twitter account and her blog.

Mrs Nelson, a former humanist celebrant and one-time local newspaper journalist, enjoys tweeting and writing about a number of issues, including the legal and social distinctions between sex and gender.

Among the statements she made on Twitter last month and which apparently concerned that police officer: ‘Gender is BS. Pass it on’.

Another:

Gender’s fashionable nonsense. Sex is real. I’ve no reason to feel ashamed of stating the truth. The bloody annoying ones are those who use words like ‘cis’ or ‘terf’ and other BS, and relegate biological women to a ‘subset’. Sorry you believe the mythology.’

The blog, meanwhile, is mainly about death and funeral rituals: Mrs Nelson has officiated at many funerals. One of her blog posts, on 19 January 2018, challenges the statement that ‘transwomen are women’ on the grounds that a person’s proclaimed gender does not change their biological sex.

Mrs Nelson wrote:

‘If a transgender person’s body was dissected, either for medical education or a post-mortem examination, his or her sex would also be obvious to a student or pathologist. Not the sex that he or she chose to present as, but his or her natal sex; the sex that he or she was born with. Even when a body has been buried for a very long time, so that there is no soft tissue left, only bone, it is still possible to identify the sex. DNA and characteristics such as the shape of the pelvis will be clear proof of the sex of the corpse.’

Mrs Nelson told me this about the call from the police:

‘The officer said she wanted to talk to me about some of the things I’d written on Twitter and my blog. She said that some of the things that I’d written could have upset or offended transgender people. So could I please stop writing things like that and perhaps I could remove those posts and tweets?’

‘I asked the officer if she agreed that free speech was important. She said it was. I said that in that case, she’d understand that I wouldn’t be removing the posts or stopping saying the things I think. She accepted that and that was the end of the conversation.’

Mrs Nelson says the that officer made no suggestion that anything she had done was illegal. She says the officer gave no reason for the call.

She later asked the Suffolk force for an explanation, and received, via Twitter, this explanation:

Hi Margaret, we had a number of people contact us on social media about the comments made online. A follow-up call was made for no other reason than to raise awareness of the complaints. Kind regards, Web Team.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/why-are-the-police-stopping-a-74-year-old-tweeting-about-transgenderism/

Robert Wolfe · 10-02-2019 7:42pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what will happen with Ian Huntley.
From what I know they are talks of him changing genders. So l, he may be transferred feŕed to a female prison.

They surely won't give in to that freak's demands.

FTA69 · 10-02-2019 8:05pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

It's very easily avoidable. There wouldn't be a debate if people were prepared to live and let live.

"There just bloke's in skirts as far as im concerned" - Your opinion doesn't matter, mate. You're just some incurious, barely literate idiot on the internet. Try being a nice idiot.

Sorry mate, I didn't say that at all. You're quoting someone else. And yes there is a debate to be had about female spaces and categories.

Over here a male sex offender transitioned inside, was moved to a women's prison and promptly sexually assaulted two women. In many female sports, we are seeing transwomen compete to the absolute detriment of women in that particular sport. Rachel McKinnon in cycling is one example, you also had a transitioned person called Fallon Fox who was beating the f*ck out of women like no tomorrow.

My partner is a competitive amateur boxer, should she be expected to fight people with male physiques?

These are real questions with real world applications and it's not nearly as simple as you're making out.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-02-2019 8:20pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Sorry mate, I didn't say that at all. You're quoting someone else. And yes there is a debate to be had about female spaces and categories.

Someone did, but not sure if it was trolling or unimaginable ignorance. Can sometimes be hard to tell.

Over here a male sex offender transitioned inside, was moved to a women's prison and promptly sexually assaulted two women. In many female sports, we are seeing transwomen compete to the absolute detriment of women in that particular sport. Rachel McKinnon in cycling is one example, you also had a transitioned person called Fallon Fox who was beating the f*ck out of women like no tomorrow.

My partner is a competitive amateur boxer, should she be expected to fight people with male physiques?

These are real questions with real world applications and it's not nearly as simple as you're making out.

Yep, there are indeed implications, but that's not really a reason for ignorance and demanding that your (general, not you personally) definition of gender should be taken more seriously than someone else's because you've got no reference or knowlegdge of transgenderism and can't be arsed finding out.

Zorya · 10-02-2019 8:23pm

Oh, all this poor poor trans people guff again from the usual posters, telling us to be nice. As if we are monsters.

We are not. No one wants to hurt trans people at all. No one! Trans people are perfectly entitled and welcome to express their gender however they feel like it and as adults to have surgeries to affirm their dispositions.
People know full well that gender dysphoria must be a terrible suffering.

People just do not want to have to -

adhere to scientific denialism that claims sex is not biological

or to accept that trans women are indistinguishable from birth women
(likewise transmen)

or to allow children to be taught the wholly destructive, disruptive and false idea culled from radical gender theory that they could have been born in the ''wrong body''.

That's all.

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 8:25pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Changing your identity is a great way to hide a criminal past. Even better if you can punish people who make a connection between former names and criminal convictions. This is the terrible harrassment that Stephanie is constantly complaining about.

Anyone can change their identity at any time. It's nothing to do with gender.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/changing_your_name_by_deed_poll.html

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what will happen with Ian Huntley.
From what I know they are talks of him changing genders. So l, he may be transferred feŕed to a female prison.

That's a UK case, isn't it?

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I read that there are plans to set up specific facilities for trans gender prisoners. The likes of Huntley won't be happy with that I'm sure but it's the best solution IMO.

That's in the UK, isn't it?

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Here is another recent case of a police contacting a 74 year woman over her thought crimes. Can anyone point out anything incorrect or offensive about what she wrote? It also mentions the man who was contacted about a "hate incident".

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/why-are-the-police-stopping-a-74-year-old-tweeting-about-transgenderism/

That's a UK case, isn't it?

FTA69 wrote: »

Sorry mate, I didn't say that at all. You're quoting someone else. And yes there is a debate to be had about female spaces and categories.

Over here a male sex offender transitioned inside, was moved to a women's prison and promptly sexually assaulted two women. In many female sports, we are seeing transwomen compete to the absolute detriment of women in that particular sport. Rachel McKinnon in cycling is one example, you also had a transitioned person called Fallon Fox who was beating the f*ck out of women like no tomorrow.

My partner is a competitive amateur boxer, should she be expected to fight people with male physiques?

These are real questions with real world applications and it's not nearly as simple as you're making out.

They're UK cases, aren't they?

I'm curious as to why some people are so determined to import this particular controversy from the UK when there is no such controversy here after 3 years of self-identification.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-02-2019 8:26pm

Zorya wrote: »

Oh, all this poor poor trans people guff again from the usual posters, telling us to be nice. As if we are monsters.

We are not. No one wants to hurt trans people at all. No one! Trans people are perfectly entitled and welcome to express their gender however they feel like it and as adults to have surgeries to affirm their dispositions.
People know full well that gender dysphoria must be a terrible suffering.

People just do not want to have to -

adhere to scientific denialism that claims sex is not biological

or to accept that trans women are indistinguishable from birth women
(likewise transmen)

or to allow children to be taught the wholly destructive, disruptive and false idea culled from radical gender theory that they could have been born in the ''wrong body''.

That's all.

Bit of a contradiction? If you say they deserve to be respected then why the poor poor guff line? Tarrinng everyone with the same brush isn't going to help.

ceadaoin. · 10-02-2019 8:30pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Anyone can change their identity at any time. It's nothing to do with gender.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/changing_your_name_by_deed_poll.html

That's a UK case, isn't it?

That's in the UK, isn't it?

That's a UK case, isn't it?

They're UK cases, aren't they?

I'm curious as to why some people are so determined to import this particular controversy from the UK when there is no such controversy here after 3 years of self-identification.

Nice blatant ignoring of the Irish case I linked to in one the posts you quoted!

Yes, anyone can change their identity at any time. It's only in the case of gender though that people are campaigning for others to be punished for referencing any former names, campaigning for criminal records in former names to be expunged, making it so that former names do not need to be disclosed for a background check and even claiming that the person literally no longer exists. You can't see any problems with any of that?

Zorya · 10-02-2019 8:31pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Bit of a contradiction? If you say they deserve to be respected then why the poor poor guff line? Tarrinng everyone with the same brush isn't going to help.

The poor poor trans people guff is your guff. Yours. You are one of the ones always going on about people not being nice to the poor trans. Not me.

Candamir · 10-02-2019 8:34pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Bit of a contradiction? If you say they deserve to be respected then why the poor poor guff line? Tarrinng everyone with the same brush isn't going to help.

You seem to have completely misread the post. Or are deliberately misrepresenting it. Either way, you’re wrong.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-02-2019 8:36pm

Zorya wrote: »

The poor poor trans people guff is your guff. Yours. You are one of the ones always going on about people not being nice to the poor trans. Not me.

I'd ask you to quote a post of mine indicating what "guff" you're talking about, but we both know I'd either get an amazingly vague quote to a post that wasn't even close, or some blind distracting moral-highground claim and not an actual link to a post, so we can call that bull**** right there.

Beyond that, my point was you don't respect trans people, you just pretend to and highlighted the part of your post that proved it. Just be more honest about it.

FTA69 · 10-02-2019 8:36pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Anyone can change their identity at any time. It's nothing to do with gender.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/changing_your_name_by_deed_poll.html

That's a UK case, isn't it?

That's in the UK, isn't it?

That's a UK case, isn't it?

They're UK cases, aren't they?

I'm curious as to why some people are so determined to import this particular controversy from the UK when there is no such controversy here after 3 years of self-identification.

Because I live in the UK for one. Secondly what happens here will usually occur in Ireland at some stage as well. There's no point in going "oh that's the UK" and insinuating that these issues will never crop up in Ireland.

Do you think it's fair on female athletes to have to compete against transwomen in contact sports? Do you think male prisoners with sexual assault convictions should be allowed in female prisons?

ceadaoin. · 10-02-2019 8:53pm

Why has there not been any campaigns for trans men to be housed in male prisons. Could it be because it's acknowledged that it is not safe to house males and females in prison together? Why does that change when the male says he is really a woman but not when a female says she is really a man? Can anyone explain this logically? The same goes for sports. It is acknowledged that females competing in male sports will have no advantages, even with supplemental testosterone. But these biological advantages are completely ignored when it comes to trans women competing against women. In every possible scenario, it's females losing out. Says it all.

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 9:03pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Because I live in the UK for one. Secondly what happens here will usually occur in Ireland at some stage as well. There's no point in going "oh that's the UK" and insinuating that these issues will never crop up in Ireland.

Ireland is years ahead of the UK on this. We've had three years of self-identification, with no significant issues arising.

So again, I'm curious as to why some people are so determined to import this particular UK controversy here, to create a problem that doesn't exist.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Nice blatant ignoring of the Irish case I linked to in one the posts you quoted!

Yes, anyone can change their identity at any time. It's only in the case of gender though that people are campaigning for others to be punished for referencing any former names, campaigning for criminal records in former names to be expunged, making it so that former names do not need to be disclosed for a background check and even claiming that the person literally no longer exists. You can't see any problems with any of that?

Tell me more about these campaigns - who is campaigning for these objectives you mention in Ireland?

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 9:07pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

In every possible scenario, it's females losing out. Says it all.

Except for the scenario of the last three years of self-identification in Ireland where no female has lost anything out.

Says it all.

ceadaoin. · 10-02-2019 9:16pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Ireland is years ahead of the UK on this. We've had three years of self-identification, with no significant issues arising.

So again, I'm curious as to why some people are so determined to import this particular UK controversy here, to create a problem that doesn't exist.

Tell me more about these campaigns - who is campaigning for these objectives you mention in Ireland?

Any comment about the Irish case ?

A District Judge is to consider legal submissions as to whether a transgender person could be properly before a court on a charges under the Misuse of Drugs Act, having been charged as a male but was now registered under the Gender Recognition Act of 2015 as a female.

The issue arose when an application was made by the State before Judge Fiona Lydon at Castlebar Court today to amend the Christian name of the defendant named on the summons from a male to a female.

The solicitor for the defendant, Ms. Fiona Daly, objected to the application by the State to amend the summons brought before the court against the defendant under the Misuse of Drugs Act.

It was Ms. Daly's contention that the person, who was named on the summons, did not exist and any attempt to amend any summons would compromise that person's constitutional and human rights under the Gender Recognition Act.

Due to the sensitive nature of the case the court asked that the defendant not be named publicly.

The person had changed their named by deed poll in June of 2016 and had obtained a gender recognition certificate.

Superintendant Joe McKenna said the State would argue that this was one and the same person.

Judge Lydon adjourned the matter to the November 21 sitting of Castlebar District Court when evidence will be heard from the gardai of details provided by the person when they were arrested.

The defence's case is that that person no longer exists and therefore the prosecution should not and could not proceed as it would be a violation of the rights of the defendant under the Gender Recognition Act.

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/10/03/4162881-judge-to-consider-legal-points-in-mayo-case-involving-transgender-person/

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 9:31pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Any comment about the Irish case ?

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/10/03/4162881-judge-to-consider-legal-points-in-mayo-case-involving-transgender-person/

Don't really have a whole lot to go on there, from those couple of articles. If someone is chancing their arm, well, it wouldn't be the first time that someone chanced their arm in Court to find a loophole. If there is a loophole, I'd guess it could be sorted fairly easily.

Seems like a fairly small problem in the context of the many other loopholes in our legal system, like the thousands of disqualified drivers who don't hand in their licences.

Again, I'm curious as to why some people are so determined to make a mountain out of a molehill on this particular issue.

Will I Am Not · 10-02-2019 9:45pm

Graham Linehan given police warning for "transphobia"

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