Bus Eireann - seriously poor

namloc1980 · 22-11-2018 10:30pm

smurgen wrote: »

It's not a fair playing field.other companies are not subsidised by the government.remove government funding for bus eireann and then see who wins the biddings.

The PSO subvention will then be paid to the winning company and they will be subsidised.

namloc1980 · 22-11-2018 10:38pm

smurgen wrote: »

How?cork isn’t the only city in the world with traffic. If I go on google maps it can predict my delay due to traffic fairly easily. Either bus Eireann is too lazy or incompetent to work such data into their time tables and plan accordingly, which is it?

That makes no sense. You of course can check Google maps and see how long your journey will take on a given day. Not a bother. But are you suggesting that a bus company should change their timetables every day based on the predicted traffic? Can you show us a city that has bus timetables built around variances in daily traffic? For example if we use traffic we could say that it takes 40 minutes to do a certain journey on a given morning in moderate traffic. But what if the traffic is really light on a given day. Should the bus sit around once it reaches a bus stop to wait for it to catch up with the timetable, shoot off to the next stop and again wait to catch up with the timetable?? And what happens on those days when traffic is much heavier than the average....??

smurgen · 22-11-2018 10:47pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

It's not a fair playing field.other companies are not subsidised by the government.remove government funding for bus eireann and then see who wins the biddings.

The PSO subvention will then be paid to the winning company and they will be subsidised.

So the bus eireann fleet and drivers wages being subsidised prior to bidding doesn't give them a competative advantage?

smurgen · 22-11-2018 10:50pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

How?cork isn’t the only city in the world with traffic. If I go on google maps it can predict my delay due to traffic fairly easily. Either bus Eireann is too lazy or incompetent to work such data into their time tables and plan accordingly, which is it?

That makes no sense. You of course can check Google maps and see how long your journey will take on a given day. Not a bother. But are you suggesting that a bus company should change their timetables every day based on the predicted traffic? Can you show us a city that has bus timetables built around variances in daily traffic? For example if we use traffic we could say that it takes 40 minutes to do a certain journey on a given morning in moderate traffic. But what if the traffic is really light on a given day. Should the bus sit around once it reaches a bus stop to wait for it to catch up with the timetable, shoot off to the next stop and again wait to catch up with the timetable?? And what happens on those days when traffic is much heavier than the average....??

Do bus eireann not to digital timetables now?

namloc1980 · 22-11-2018 11:01pm

smurgen wrote: »

So the bus eireann fleet and drivers wages being subsidised prior to bidding doesn't give them a competative advantage?

Sure but what you want to do, strip them of their assets? Any company coming in will be a well established entity, look at Go Ahead who have taken over 10% of the Dublin Bus PSO routes.

namloc1980 · 22-11-2018 11:02pm

smurgen wrote: »

Do bus eireann not to digital timetables now?

What's a digital timetable?

end of the road · 22-11-2018 11:30pm

smurgen wrote: »

It's not a fair playing field.other companies are not subsidised by the government. remove government funding for bus eireann and then see who wins the biddings.

it is the public service obligation routes that are subsidized, not bus eireann itself. it is simply paid for running the public service obligation routes, something which would continue to happen whichever company would run them.
the playing field in relation to this is very fair, as the national transport authority decides everything when it comes to what is contained within the contract in relation to how routes should be run, and all companies are treated the exact same in terms of being able to bid for a contract that becomes availible to open tender, and in terms of funding to operate these uneconomic but socially necessary and vital routes.

smurgen wrote: »

So the bus eireann fleet and drivers wages being subsidised prior to bidding doesn't give them a competative advantage?

absolutely not no . the costs for both are paid for whichever company wins the contract for routes.
the NTA own a lot of the fleet used on the public service obligation routes now, so whoever gets the contract will have the busses used on those routes transferred to them for the duration of the contract. the wages would likely come under the running costs of the service, so will be within the money paid to operate the routes.

smurgen · 22-11-2018 11:33pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

Do bus eireann not to digital timetables now?

What's a digital timetable?

Mobile apps and digital timetables at bus stops.neither of which currently work accurately for bus eireann routes in Cork.

TheChizler · 22-11-2018 11:34pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

But what if the traffic is really light on a given day. Should the bus sit around once it reaches a bus stop to wait for it to catch up with the timetable, shoot off to the next stop and again wait to catch up with the timetable?? And what happens on those days when traffic is much heavier than the average....??

I remember in Vancouver 9 years ago they had three coloured lights above the driver's face, speed up, ok, and slow down that lit up based on how the journey was progressing relative to the timetable. Seemed to be quite good at keeping the driver to time. They must have timetabled to bad traffic and seemed to dawdle at stops if traffic was light. I wouldn't mind that at all here if it meant they were more predictable.

smurgen · 22-11-2018 11:42pm

end of the road wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

It's not a fair playing field.other companies are not subsidised by the government. remove government funding for bus eireann and then see who wins the biddings.

it is the public service obligation routes that are subsidized, not bus eireann itself. it is simply paid for running the public service obligation routes, something which would continue to happen whichever company would run them.
the playing field in relation to this is very fair, as the national transport authority decides everything when it comes to what is contained within the contract in relation to how routes should be run, and all companies are treated the exact same in terms of being able to bid for a contract that becomes availible to open tender, and in terms of funding to operate these uneconomic but socially necessary and vital routes.

smurgen wrote: »

So the bus eireann fleet and drivers wages being subsidised prior to bidding doesn't give them a competative advantage?

absolutely not no . the costs for both are paid for whichever company wins the contract for routes.
the NTA own a lot of the fleet used on the public service obligation routes now, so whoever gets the contract will have the busses used on those routes transferred to them for the duration of the contract. the wages would likely come under the running costs of the service, so will be within the money paid to operate the routes.

You still don't get it. Bus Eireann have a head start on any company by the subsidises they've received to date. Any company entering the market will be at a disadvantage regarding driver training and infrastructure received by bus eireann to date due to governement subsidising. Making up for this by any company looking to compete will put them at a cost disadvantage.

namloc1980 · 22-11-2018 11:46pm

smurgen wrote: »

Mobile apps and digital timetables at bus stops.neither of which currently work accurately for bus eireann routes in Cork.

That's RTPI. You're anger is misguided at Bus Eireann. RTPI is the National Transport Authority.

smurgen · 22-11-2018 11:50pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

So the bus eireann fleet and drivers wages being subsidised prior to bidding doesn't give them a competative advantage?

Sure but what you want to do, strip them of their assets? Any company coming in will be a well established entity, look at Go Ahead who have taken over 10% of the Dublin Bus PSO routes.

Make the playing field fair. Bus eireann does not like competition.they are a protected species.when aircoach first started they completely opened up the cork dublin market and now dominate it.the daily amount of busses shot of for consumers and prices came down. Bus Eireann were seriously disgruntled and tried to block them from using any of the bus stops on their shared routes. During the 2017 bus eireann strike i also remember them stopping aircoarches from leaving cork by physically standing in front of them while picketing. Sore losers.

namloc1980 · 22-11-2018 11:52pm

smurgen wrote: »

Make the playing field fair. Bus eireann does not like competition.they are a protected species.when aircoach first started they completely opened up the cork dublin market and now dominate it.the daily amount of busses shot of for consumers and prices came down. Bus Eireann were seriously disgruntled and tried to block them from using any of the bus stops on their shared routes. During the 2017 bus eireann strike i also remember them stopping aircoarches from leaving cork by physically standing in front of them while picketing. Sore losers.

How do you propose making it fair?

smurgen · 22-11-2018 11:53pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

Do bus eireann not to digital timetables now?

What's a digital timetable?

Did you google digital timetable? I just did,shows exactly what i was on about. I advise End of the Road who liked your comment to google it too.

smurgen · 22-11-2018 11:55pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

Make the playing field fair. Bus eireann does not like competition.they are a protected species.when aircoach first started they completely opened up the cork dublin market and now dominate it.the daily amount of busses shot of for consumers and prices came down. Bus Eireann were seriously disgruntled and tried to block them from using any of the bus stops on their shared routes. During the 2017 bus eireann strike i also remember them stopping aircoarches from leaving cork by physically standing in front of them while picketing. Sore losers.

How do you propose making it fair?

Remove subsidies from Bus Eireann.

namloc1980 · 22-11-2018 11:57pm

smurgen wrote: »

Remove subsidies from Bus Eireann.

That means PSO routes will not be operated. Are you ok with removing loss making bus routes from rural communities and many city routes? I don't think you understand what PSO routes are.

smurgen · 23-11-2018 12:04am

namloc1980 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

Remove subsidies from Bus Eireann.

That means PSO routes will not be operated. Are you ok with removing loss making bus routes from rural communities and many city routes? I don't think you understand what PSO routes are.

Allow prices to rise and discount the commuters passes. Then private companies with reduced driver cost and operating costs will be better able to compete for all routes.

smurgen · 23-11-2018 12:06am

namloc1980 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

Remove subsidies from Bus Eireann.

That means PSO routes will not be operated. Are you ok with removing loss making bus routes from rural communities and many city routes? I don't think you understand what PSO routes are.

I don't think you understand that the current service offered by Bus Eireann in Cork is not up to scratch and is hindering the development of the city.

namloc1980 · 23-11-2018 12:09am

smurgen wrote: »

I don't think you understand that the current service offered by Bus Eireann in Cork is not up to scratch and is hindering the development of the city.

Again your anger is misdirected. The NTA manage the PSO routes, the frequency etc. Bus Eireann operate the PSOs. But the NTA are responsible for them.

end of the road · 23-11-2018 2:03am

smurgen wrote: »

You still don't get it. Bus Eireann have a head start on any company by the subsidises they've received to date. Any company entering the market will be at a disadvantage regarding driver training and infrastructure received by bus eireann to date due to governement subsidising. Making up for this by any company looking to compete will put them at a cost disadvantage.

1. the subsidies paid to bus eireann are to operate the routes, not to subsidize bus eireann itself. they are route subsidies, not company subsidies. any company bidding for routes will receive subsidies to operate the routes.
2. any company setting up from scratch, such as many of the international operators setting up an irish presence, or a new operator, will have to train drivers whether they are operating a tendered service or a commercial service. that is nothing to do with subsidies or bus eireann but the realities of operating a new business.
3. the depot facilities bus eireann have are in a lot if not most cases, facilities inherrited from the old pre-nationalised bus and rail companies, others being capital investment, something which can easily be done by the NTA if they so choose. so realistically, there isn't a disadvantage to other companies, as go ahead have proven that they can and will build a depot to service the routes they have won tenders for, and i suspect going forward the companies won't be expected to find/build their own depot facilities.

smurgen wrote: »

Make the playing field fair. Bus eireann does not like competition.they are a protected species.when aircoach first started they completely opened up the cork dublin market and now dominate it.the daily amount of busses shot of for consumers and prices came down. Bus Eireann were seriously disgruntled and tried to block them from using any of the bus stops on their shared routes. During the 2017 bus eireann strike i also remember them stopping aircoarches from leaving cork by physically standing in front of them while picketing. Sore losers.

the playing field is very fair, as fair as it can be . no company likes competition, bus eireann have had it for a very long time however, whether it be small local operators or more recently commercial operators. do note though that while tendering is a form of competition, it is not user-based competition, so unless the NTA specify certain criteria in the contract that will bring about changes to make things better, you won't notice anything different on the ground apart from a change of operator, where a different operator may win a tender.

smurgen wrote: »

Allow prices to rise and discount the commuters passes. Then private companies with reduced driver cost and operating costs will be better able to compete for all routes.

these routes are not commercial routes. nobody is going to compete to run routes which are not economically viable, where there is no chance of payment for operating them. no subsidy means the fare payers end up paying in full, which drives them away, which means no route. so what have you achieved, apart from driving more people into the car? certainly not the level playing field you are after, which currently exists.

smurgen · 23-11-2018 8:52am

end of the road wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

You still don't get it. Bus Eireann have a head start on any company by the subsidises they've received to date. Any company entering the market will be at a disadvantage regarding driver training and infrastructure received by bus eireann to date due to governement subsidising. Making up for this by any company looking to compete will put them at a cost disadvantage.

1. the subsidies paid to bus eireann are to operate the routes, not to subsidize bus eireann itself. they are route subsidies, not company subsidies. any company bidding for routes will receive subsidies to operate the routes.
2. any company setting up from scratch, such as many of the international operators setting up an irish presence, or a new operator, will have to train drivers whether they are operating a tendered service or a commercial service. that is nothing to do with subsidies or bus eireann but the realities of operating a new business.
3. the depot facilities bus eireann have are in a lot if not most cases, facilities inherrited from the old pre-nationalised bus and rail companies, others being capital investment, something which can easily be done by the NTA if they so choose. so realistically, there isn't a disadvantage to other companies, as go ahead have proven that they can and will build a depot to service the routes they have won tenders for, and i suspect going forward the companies won't be expected to find/build their own depot facilities.

smurgen wrote: »

Make the playing field fair. Bus eireann does not like competition.they are a protected species.when aircoach first started they completely opened up the cork dublin market and now dominate it.the daily amount of busses shot of for consumers and prices came down. Bus Eireann were seriously disgruntled and tried to block them from using any of the bus stops on their shared routes. During the 2017 bus eireann strike i also remember them stopping aircoarches from leaving cork by physically standing in front of them while picketing. Sore losers.

the playing field is very fair, as fair as it can be . no company likes competition, bus eireann have had it for a very long time however, whether it be small local operators or more recently commercial operators. do note though that while tendering is a form of competition, it is not user-based competition, so unless the NTA specify certain criteria in the contract that will bring about changes to make things better, you won't notice anything different on the ground apart from a change of operator, where a different operator may win a tender.

smurgen wrote: »

Allow prices to rise and discount the commuters passes. Then private companies with reduced driver cost and operating costs will be better able to compete for all routes.

these routes are not commercial routes. nobody is going to compete to run routes which are not economically viable, where there is no chance of payment for operating them. no subsidy means the fare payers end up paying in full, which drives them away, which means no route. so what have you achieved, apart from driving more people into the car? certainly not the level playing field you are after, which currently exists.

Bus Eireann should be told to share their depos with other companies.it's part of national infrastructure as far as i'm concerned.
The company has an unfair strangle hold over public transport in the city and it's damaging a good example of this was the 2017 strike of 20 days. Done alot of damage to the company the city was incredibly quiet and it done nothing but inconvenienced commuters.
Anyone who wants to be on time cannot use bus eireann,it's not fit for purpose.i believe those strongly supportive at this stage have to be management or drivers as that's the only people who could be supporting the extremely poor service on offer.
Removing the subsidy at the company side would mean the operators would need to become leaner and more efficient.the fare would need to rise until it became commercially viable.to pay this higher fare a discount could be given to the customers to offset the increase.this would see the government money being used by the comutter rather that being used to pay over inflater wages at bus eireann.

end of the road · 23-11-2018 3:10pm

smurgen wrote: »

Bus Eireann should be told to share their depos with other companies.it's part of national infrastructure as far as i'm concerned.

there is nothing stopping other companies looking to co-locate with bus eireann where there is room to do so. bus eireann would gladly be happy with the rent. however in reality, there is no room, because in an area where bus eireann lose a tender for routes, there will be expansions in service elsewhere where bus eireann may have won a tender, so the depot facility will still be used due to no room at other depots. also, i suspect a lot of the DEPOTS are owned outright by CIE, which from what i understand is an entity in it's own right even if it's main shareholder is the state. so i'd imagine it's not that easy to force it to allow others use it's property if it chooses not to.

smurgen wrote: »

The company has an unfair strangle hold over public transport in the city and it's damaging a good example of this was the 2017 strike of 20 days. Done alot of damage to the company the city was incredibly quiet and it done nothing but inconvenienced commuters.
Anyone who wants to be on time cannot use bus eireann,it's not fit for purpose.

the company has no strangle hold on transport at all. a strike is irrelevant, given it can happen at any company if the conditions are right for it. bus eireann simply operate the services, if the services are unreliable, then that is DOWN to the NTA not insuring proper frequencies and other measures, and the local authorities not implementing more bus priority measures.

smurgen wrote: »

i believe those strongly supportive at this stage have to be management or drivers as that's the only people who could be supporting the extremely poor service on offer.

this guff may work with other posters but not on me i'm afraid. i certainly do not support the service having issues and i believe all involved need to sort it out. however what i'm not supportive of, and by the looks of it others aren't either, is your ideas of removing subsidies and expecting other operators to run routes for nothing.

smurgen wrote: »

Removing the subsidy at the company side would mean the operators would need to become leaner and more efficient.the fare would need to rise until it became commercially viable.to pay this higher fare a discount could be given to the customers to offset the increase.this would see the government money being used by the comutter rather that being used to pay over inflater wages at bus eireann.

there is no subsidy at the company side. this has already been explained to you twice at this stage and now for a third time. the subsidies are to pay the company for operating the routes, not to subsidize the company. any company who bids for routes will receive that subsidy should they win whether state or private. removing these subsidies isn't going to force operators to become leaner or more efficient, as all operators are as lean and efficient as they can be given their operations. what it will do however, is insure the route no longer exists, because no operator is going to operate them for nothing.
the fare rising until it became commercially viable is unviable for public service obligation routes. that is the whole point. the routes don't have the users, or in other cases have lots of users, but who will go to their cars if the fares are to high, which in turn causes issues elsewhere, mainly in terms of congestion on the roads, which in turn causes issues for those who have no option but to use the roads. giving a discount to the customer to offset the increase means the increase is invalid because there will be nobody to pay the higher fare, and it means either a subsidy being paid to operate the routes, which is what is happening currently, or it means the company state or private loses out, meaning they in all likelyhood walk away, for which they would be correct to do so, given they are not a charity.
there are no overinflator wages at bus eireann, the wages are simply at the higher end of the market.

Mardyke · 23-11-2018 4:25pm

Where do ye get time to post these essays!? *

* must be waiting for a 220

smurgen · 23-11-2018 9:56pm

end of the road wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

Bus Eireann should be told to share their depos with other companies.it's part of national infrastructure as far as i'm concerned.

there is nothing stopping other companies looking to co-locate with bus eireann where there is room to do so. bus eireann would gladly be happy with the rent. however in reality, there is no room, because in an area where bus eireann lose a tender for routes, there will be expansions in service elsewhere where bus eireann may have won a tender, so the depot facility will still be used due to no room at other depots. also, i suspect a lot of the DEPOTS are owned outright by CIE, which from what i understand is an entity in it's own right even if it's main shareholder is the state. so i'd imagine it's not that easy to force it to allow others use it's property if it chooses not to.

smurgen wrote: »

The company has an unfair strangle hold over public transport in the city and it's damaging a good example of this was the 2017 strike of 20 days. Done alot of damage to the company the city was incredibly quiet and it done nothing but inconvenienced commuters.
Anyone who wants to be on time cannot use bus eireann,it's not fit for purpose.

the company has no strangle hold on transport at all. a strike is irrelevant, given it can happen at any company if the conditions are right for it. bus eireann simply operate the services, if the services are unreliable, then that is DOWN to the NTA not insuring proper frequencies and other measures, and the local authorities not implementing more bus priority measures.

smurgen wrote: »

i believe those strongly supportive at this stage have to be management or drivers as that's the only people who could be supporting the extremely poor service on offer.

this guff may work with other posters but not on me i'm afraid. i certainly do not support the service having issues and i believe all involved need to sort it out. however what i'm not supportive of, and by the looks of it others aren't either, is your ideas of removing subsidies and expecting other operators to run routes for nothing.

smurgen wrote: »

Removing the subsidy at the company side would mean the operators would need to become leaner and more efficient.the fare would need to rise until it became commercially viable.to pay this higher fare a discount could be given to the customers to offset the increase.this would see the government money being used by the comutter rather that being used to pay over inflater wages at bus eireann.

there is no subsidy at the company side. this has already been explained to you twice at this stage and now for a third time. the subsidies are to pay the company for operating the routes, not to subsidize the company. any company who bids for routes will receive that subsidy should they win whether state or private. removing these subsidies isn't going to force operators to become leaner or more efficient, as all operators are as lean and efficient as they can be given their operations. what it will do however, is insure the route no longer exists, because no operator is going to operate them for nothing.
the fare rising until it became commercially viable is unviable for public service obligation routes. that is the whole point. the routes don't have the users, or in other cases have lots of users, but who will go to their cars if the fares are to high, which in turn causes issues elsewhere, mainly in terms of congestion on the roads, which in turn causes issues for those who have no option but to use the roads. giving a discount to the customer to offset the increase means the increase is invalid because there will be nobody to pay the higher fare, and it means either a subsidy being paid to operate the routes, which is what is happening currently, or it means the company state or private loses out, meaning they in all likelyhood walk away, for which they would be correct to do so, given they are not a charity.
there are no overinflator wages at bus eireann, the wages are simply at the higher end of the market.

There's no subsidy on the company side? Tell me then how come the tax saver ticket is directly connected to Bus Eireann monthly tickets? The governent is literally giving people a tax deduction only if they use bus eireann's busses. How is this fair? If the taxsaver system could be applied in an easy to trasfer ways to other operators it would drastically alter the competitave advantage bus eireann enjoys.

end of the road · 23-11-2018 10:47pm

smurgen wrote: »

There's no subsidy on the company side? Tell me then how come the tax saver ticket is directly connected to Bus Eireann monthly tickets? The governent is literally giving people a tax deduction only if they use bus eireann's busses. How is this fair? If the taxsaver system could be applied in an easy to trasfer ways to other operators it would drastically alter the competitave advantage bus eireann enjoys.

the tax saver applies to irish rail, dublin bus, bus eireann, the privately operated luas, and i'd imagine the private operator go ahead's routes and other tendered PSO routes. presumably there just isn't enough money there to roll it out to commercially operated routes where they do exist, i believe the ftp also has this issue, commercially operated routes haven't been able to join it since 2010 i think.
i'd imagine to implement a system where a tax saver could be simply transferred to another operator where they do exist would cost quite a bit, all though perhapse that may come in due course i don't know. as it stands though, renewal time is the best opportunity to change to another operator where it exists and where tax saver is valid, as long as your employer agrees.

smurgen · 24-11-2018 12:53am

end of the road wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

There's no subsidy on the company side? Tell me then how come the tax saver ticket is directly connected to Bus Eireann monthly tickets? The governent is literally giving people a tax deduction only if they use bus eireann's busses. How is this fair? If the taxsaver system could be applied in an easy to trasfer ways to other operators it would drastically alter the competitave advantage bus eireann enjoys.

the tax saver applies to irish rail, dublin bus, bus eireann, the privately operated luas, and i'd imagine the private operator go ahead's routes and other tendered PSO routes. presumably there just isn't enough money there to roll it out to commercially operated routes where they do exist, i believe the ftp also has this issue, commercially operated routes haven't been able to join it since 2010 i think.
i'd imagine to implement a system where a tax saver could be simply transferred to another operator where they do exist would cost quite a bit, all though perhapse that may come in due course i don't know. as it stands though, renewal time is the best opportunity to change to another operator where it exists and where tax saver is valid, as long as your employer agrees.

So for the purpose of cork city you agree the taxsaver gives bus eireann an unfair advantage?

end of the road · 24-11-2018 1:32am

smurgen wrote: »

So for the purpose of cork city you agree the taxsaver gives bus eireann an unfair advantage?

i don't, no .

Stephen15 · 24-11-2018 1:37am

smurgen wrote: »

So for the purpose of cork city you agree the taxsaver gives bus eireann an unfair advantage?

It applies to PSO services that includes state operators such as IE, BE and DB but also private operators such as Transdev (Luas) and Go-Ahead.

smurgen · 24-11-2018 10:20am

Stephen15 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

So for the purpose of cork city you agree the taxsaver gives bus eireann an unfair advantage?

It applies to PSO services that includes state operators such as IE, BE and DB but also private operators such as Transdev (Luas) and Go-Ahead.

No Luas in Cork,Go Ahead is dublin DB is Dublin and IE doesn't apply except for one line to East Cork.So yes it's a monopoly for BE.

namloc1980 · 24-11-2018 11:43am

smurgen wrote: »

No Luas in Cork,Go Ahead is dublin DB is Dublin and IE doesn't apply except for one line to East Cork.So yes it's a monopoly for BE.

No it isn't. Do you understand what taxsaver actually is? Cobh Connect has taxsaver so can we drop this nonsense about taxsaver monopolies.

smurgen · 24-11-2018 12:20pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

No Luas in Cork,Go Ahead is dublin DB is Dublin and IE doesn't apply except for one line to East Cork.So yes it's a monopoly for BE.

No it isn't. Do you understand what taxsaver actually is? Cobh Connect has taxsaver so can we drop this nonsense about taxsaver monopolies.

Yes,i use it.why is it not made more transferrable so new bus companies could quickly and easily avail of the imcentive? Why mention bus eireann so promidently on the website? How about tax saving on a generic card,have private operators accept this card and use that as payment instead. Then the customer can choose if they want to use bus eireann or an alternative and aren't locked into a bus eireann monthly ticket.

namloc1980 · 24-11-2018 12:47pm

smurgen wrote: »

Yes,i use it.why is it not made more transferrable so new bus companies could quickly and easily avail of the imcentive? Why mention bus eireann so promidently on the website? How about tax saving on a generic card,have private operators accept this card and use that as payment instead. Then the customer can choose if they want to use bus eireann or an alternative and aren't locked into a bus eireann monthly ticket.

Taxsaver is linked to a specific type of ticket. Have you contacted the various operators, the NTA, the Revenue Commissioners to ask those questions?

smurgen · 24-11-2018 2:13pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

Yes,i use it.why is it not made more transferrable so new bus companies could quickly and easily avail of the imcentive? Why mention bus eireann so promidently on the website? How about tax saving on a generic card,have private operators accept this card and use that as payment instead. Then the customer can choose if they want to use bus eireann or an alternative and aren't locked into a bus eireann monthly ticket.

Taxsaver is linked to a specific type of ticket. Have you contacted the various operators, the NTA, the Revenue Commissioners to ask those questions?

So you agree that the taxsaver set up suits Bus Eireann over private bus operators in Cork? That it would provide a barrier to entry to new enterants.

namloc1980 · 24-11-2018 2:47pm

smurgen wrote: »

So you agree that the taxsaver set up suits Bus Eireann over private bus operators in Cork? That it would provide a barrier to entry to new enterants.

No. Case in point is Cobh Connects....new operator who have taxsaver.

You didn't answer my question...have you contacted the various authorities with your concerns?

end of the road · 24-11-2018 2:54pm

smurgen wrote: »

So you agree that the taxsaver set up suits Bus Eireann over private bus operators in Cork? That it would provide a barrier to entry to new enterants.

no, i don't, because it doesn't. there is no barrier to entry for private operators in cork or anywhere. they can tender for a contract to operate existing PSO routes when the contract with the existing operator is up, they can provide a new PSO route, and they can operate a commercial route, as long as the new PSO or commercial route adds to the network.

smurgen · 24-11-2018 3:15pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

So you agree that the taxsaver set up suits Bus Eireann over private bus operators in Cork? That it would provide a barrier to entry to new enterants.

No. Case in point is Cobh Connects....new operator who have taxsaver.

You didn't answer my question...have you contacted the various authorities with your concerns?

The cobh connect is not listed on the taxsaver.ie website. Why is that?
I will be contacting the authorities about my concerns. To be honest with you i see a number of concerning issues with the the tender process also and the lack of transparancy looks very suspicious to me. The nta submission by bus eireann looks suspicious also and the performance metrics just to not look believeable.
As an accountant myself i think i could pick apart the numbers pretty easy. I just had a cursory glance last night at some of the financials reports audited by Deloitte and seen several inconsistencies.The customer surveys look like a complete book of fiction.
I'll be putting together a breakdown of my issues with the cosy relationship between NTA and Bus Eireann, the damage I believe Bus Eireann is doing to Cork city as a provider on a vital public service and make recommendations.
I'll be forwarding all of this onto Cork T.D's see if i can get any replies.

end of the road · 24-11-2018 4:06pm

smurgen wrote: »

The cobh connect is not listed on the taxsaver.ie website. Why is that?

i don't know. perhapse it's a simple mistaken omission. it's certainly not a conspiracy against private operators given luas is mentioned. goahead dublin isn't mentioned from what i can find either but tax saver is availible as far as i understand on their routes along with apparently cobh connect.

smurgen · 24-11-2018 7:39pm

end of the road wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

The cobh connect is not listed on the taxsaver.ie website. Why is that?

i don't know. perhapse it's a simple mistaken omission. it's certainly not a conspiracy against private operators given luas is mentioned. goahead dublin isn't mentioned from what i can find either but tax saver is availible as far as i understand on their routes along with apparently cobh connect.

I'm curious as to what your job is.i can see from you arguing on this thread you never consider the service from the consumers perspective and seem to attribute delays to private cars. Do you work for a union or other semi state body?

end of the road · 24-11-2018 8:15pm

smurgen wrote: »

I'm curious as to what your job is. Do you work for a union or other semi state body?

no

smurgen wrote: »

i can see from you arguing on this thread you never consider the service from the consumers perspective and seem to attribute delays to private cars.

i very much consider transport services from the customer's point of view, given i am a customer and frequent user of public transport myself, all be it not in the cork area. the fact is, private cars will be part of the delays to transport, in some cases a huge part. from what i understand of cork, there is far from enough bus priority measures and not enough being done by all stakeholders to sort out what are clearly issues on services down there. there will be aspects of that which are the fault of the company, all be it not as much as it is made out to be, but mostly it's the regulator, who is not holding them to account and who is doing nothing to resolve the issues. i believe in defending and criticising where warrented and have very much been willing to criticise transport operators where i believe they can do better.

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 03-02-2019 10:29am

Over a year later (I'm the OP) and nothing has changed.

First day back to college last week and the driver sees me, and despite me waving and standing at the stop, he drives straight past me, 5-7 mins early.

Luckily he got stuck in traffic a few hundreds metres up the road so I knocked on the door and he let me in.

I asked him why he left the stop early and he began to argue with me, telling me that 'because it's a college bus, the timetable doesn't matter' - at that stage I wasn't even going to try and talk to this fella.

I've sent BE many emails over the past year about poor service and despite false apologies and 'we're continually improving' emails, they're still the same.

Nothing has changed... and then you wonder why we're so car reliant in Cork City.

This has to change if we want more people to use public transport FFS. It's just constant despicable service. Someone has to step up and do something about it, whether it be the public, politicians, someone just has to tackle this, because Bus Eireann themselves are clearly not interested in improving.

See the below response from the NTA too - they don't want to help or investigate either. Jokers.

Bus Eireann are not held accountable for their poor service and that's part of the problem.

Sorry for the long post but it's an absolute joke at this stage.

namloc1980 · 03-02-2019 11:09am

Anecdotally at least there's lots of issues with Go Ahead services in Dublin since they they took up the old DB routes (have a look at Twitter for examples). Some of the old issues like phantom buses, multiple buses showing up at once are still there plus new issues like incorrect fares being charged / Leap cards not working etc.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Mardyke · 03-02-2019 3:39pm

The new 220 timetable is fantastic in fairness. It remains to be seen, though, whether they can continue to provide a service that sticks to the timetable. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. They've basically just thrown lots more buses at the route. So now, even if a bus is late, you probably won't be waiting for too long.

Despite that positivity, though, there are still glaring issues with BE as a service provider. The old brigade of drivers clearly are trouble, we'll see if the newer bunch are thought some manners and customer service.

Timetables still mean nothing to a driver as far as I can see. They just set off and plough ahead.

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 03-02-2019 4:26pm

Had three 220's pass me one after the other last night in town, within a minute of eachother, going out towards Ovens. No traffic so no excuses. They are definitely not sticking to timetables which makes a joke of the new (improved) timetable.

kub · 03-02-2019 6:24pm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Had three 220's pass me one after the other last night in town, within a minute of eachother, going out towards Ovens. No traffic so no excuses. They are definitely not sticking to timetables which makes a joke of the new (improved) timetable.

I am not at all excusing Bus Eireann and their questionable customer service or whatever they call it, but that 220 route is one of, if not the longest suburban service in the country. Traffic may have been light where you were but who is to say what it was like before you saw the buses together, anywhere along that route.

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 03-02-2019 6:31pm

kub wrote: »

I am not at all excusing Bus Eireann and their questionable customer service or whatever they call it, but that 220 route is one of, if not the longest suburban service in the country. Traffic may have been light where you were but who is to say what it was like before you saw the buses together, anywhere along that route.

Sorry but this was at 11pm last night, so I refuse to believe traffic was the reason for that occurring. Certainly not to delay 3 buses anyway. But fair point either way.

kub · 03-02-2019 7:06pm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Sorry but this was at 11pm last night, so I refuse to believe traffic was the reason for that occurring. Certainly not to delay 3 buses anyway. But fair point either way.

Ah 11pm, well there is no excuse for that, any chance they were coming off service i wonder ?

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 03-02-2019 7:08pm

kub wrote: »

Ah 11pm, well there is no excuse for that, any chance they were coming off service i wonder ?

All were marked as heading to Ovens and all stopped. So I don't know. Very, very strange though.

questionmark? · 03-02-2019 11:28pm

kub wrote: »

, but that 220 route is one of, if not the longest suburban service in the country.

Surely they should consider splitting that route into two rather than one very long route. Could build recovery time in the centre into the schedule before going back the way they came.

Treviso · 03-02-2019 11:30pm

Whatever happened to Bus Eireann's live bus tracker service? See bits about it from 2010. Surely they could now try to start that service again

TheChizler · 04-02-2019 12:02am

Treviso wrote: »

Whatever happened to Bus Eireann's live bus tracker service? See bits about it from 2010. Surely they could now try to start that service again

You can see the current (sometimes ghost) bus position when you look at the schedule on the real time information site.

Bus Eireann - seriously poor

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