Saorview Connect

Tony · 21-01-2016 10:32am

Its most likely there will be a combi box

The Cush wrote: »

Details of the new connected receivers were vague today, is it possible there could be a combi receiver in the range?

MBSnr · 21-01-2016 11:09am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

That unreliable piece of junk isn't worth €9.50. Yet somehow Saorview certified and approved it. I've never successfully recorded a series of more than two episodes on it. Even one-off recordings frequently fail for no reason.

It's going to be difficult if not impossible for me to have enough faith in any future Saorview PVR to fork out my cash for it.

I've not had much bother with it. It's not ideal but much more reasonable at less than €100 than it's previous price. Admittedly ours gets limited recording use (compared to the Freesat box), so I wouldn't see the amount of failures you may have.

slicedpanman · 21-01-2016 11:38am

Tony wrote: »

Its most likely there will be a combi box

ta Tony, any industry hints of; combi connect anywhere + basic FTA sat? or + freesat?

Hibrasil · 21-01-2016 1:58pm

From Today's Irish Times:-

"RTÉ’s chief technology officer Richard Waghorn recently said Saorview was having conversations” with broadcasters about adding more channels.

The Oireachtas TV channel, TV3 HD and TV3 +1 are possible future additions to the service."

Don't know if this is speculation or semi-informed comment!

Tony · 21-01-2016 2:48pm

Sorry I cannot comment on that right now as I've agreed non disclosure with saorview.

slicedpanman wrote: »

ta Tony, any industry hints of; combi connect anywhere + basic FTA sat? or + freesat?

The Cush · 21-01-2016 6:20pm

Tony wrote: »

Sorry I cannot comment on that right now as I've agreed non disclosure with saorview.

Thanks for the earlier post in any case Tony.

Why the secrecy though, always has been the case with RTÉ/Saorview since they launched the service.

Dave..M · 21-01-2016 6:56pm

Aye.

I do hope its a proper combined EPG based product with auto channel updates etc but I fear content rights issues could be problematic as they are for any provider for a full Freesat listing. Personally though anything less is a missed opportunity, roll back EPG on Irish only channels won't make any difference to me, I already only really watch Freesat channels now and rarely if ever any of the Irish ones a fancier version won't make me spend.

The Cush · 21-01-2016 7:25pm

Hibrasil wrote: »

From Today's Irish Times:-

"RTÉ’s chief technology officer Richard Waghorn recently said Saorview was having conversations” with broadcasters about adding more channels.

The Oireachtas TV channel, TV3 HD and TV3 +1 are possible future additions to the service."

Don't know if this is speculation or semi-informed comment!

Richard Waghorn's comments were first reported a week ago in the Irish Times (see post #92 on the previous page) but he didn't refer to any particular channels.

The Oireachtas channel is on a trial run atm and will probably do so until the Dáil is dissolved, will it return with as a full service channel post election?

STB. · 21-01-2016 7:51pm

Dave..M wrote: »

Aye.

I do hope its a proper combined EPG based product with auto channel updates etc but I fear content rights issues could be problematic as they are for any provider for a full Freesat listing. Personally though anything less is a missed opportunity, roll back EPG on Irish only channels won't make any difference to me, I already only really watch Freesat channels now and rarely if ever any of the Irish ones a fancier version won't make me spend.

Indeed they would have to get permission from Freesat to access the Data Transponder even if the software is being released by the same company that provides both.

Pity, they could have accessed the data elsewhere, just not OTA.

mackersdublin · 21-01-2016 8:27pm

STB. wrote: »

Indeed they would have to get permission from Freesat to access the Data Transponder even if the software is being released by the same company that provides both.

Pity, they could have accessed the data elsewhere, just not OTA.

But, isn't there a Saorview approved Walker Combi box with 'SatFree' as an option which is the Freesat EPG?

STB. · 21-01-2016 9:26pm

mackersdublin wrote: »

But, isn't there a Saorview approved Walker Combi box with 'SatFree' as an option which is the Freesat EPG?

Officially ? No. It infact voided your warranty on the box. It wasa kludge and fairly crude if I remember correctly, no doubt due to low flash memory and poor software.

For the box to work with Freesat and Saorview in one menu would require agreements and continued support. If it was pushed (given that overspill is a bigger elephant in the room) then..... But then again how committed are they ? We'll find out when the combo box is released. Its no secret what will work and what they need to release.

As long as Saorview persist with Vestel, then Ireland will never have a robust fta box that combines IPTV/Saorview/Freesat.

21-01-2016 9:41pm

STB. wrote: »

Officially ? No. It infact voided your warranty on the box. It wasa kludge and fairly crude if I remember correctly, no doubt due to low flash memory and poor software.

For the box to work with Freesat and Saorview in one menu would require agreements and continued support. If it was pushed (given that overspill is a bigger elephant in the room) then..... But then again how committed are they ? We'll find out when the combo box is released. Its no secret what will work and what they need to release.

As long as Saorview persist with Vestel, then Ireland will never have a robust fta box that combines IPTV/Saorview/Freesat.

No, mackersdublin is right. The Walker WP645TS-HD. Quite a slow box and it's hardcoded to London but it does work unofficially.

Hibrasil · 21-01-2016 9:47pm

"Little Bird" whispered that Saorview Connect Service is to be launched in three months time!
Hope the bird is not whispering "sweet nothings"

Tony · 21-01-2016 11:19pm

No problem. I think they may want to keep everything under wraps until the hardware is fully ready. Conor Pope from the Irish Times is following this also so he may publish more info from the possible consumer benefit point of view .

The Cush wrote: »

Thanks for the earlier post in any case Tony.

Why the secrecy though, always has been the case with RTÉ/Saorview since they launched the service.

STB. · 21-01-2016 11:23pm

Karsini wrote: »

No, mackersdublin is right. The Walker WP645TS-HD. Quite a slow box and it's hardcoded to London but it does work unofficially.

I didn't say he was wrong. I said officially a box doesn't exist and openly branded as doing Freesat/Irish Channels. Sat4free also existed in the past. In any event neither combined both sets of channels in one epg.

For what its worth I saw the box and the reason it was slow was due to where the epg data was being populated and stored and its low spec in general.

To put it my original point in context you don't get the likes of metaphor to design the software and not find a way of linking the data on sat (event if it is running from epg grab from a webdownload rather than OTA). No 7 day epg would be a bad start.

I know and you know that a basic low to mid spec 750MHZ broadcom chip box could run this with 2 dvb-s and dvb-t tuners and have IPTV capabilities. Add an internal HDD at your own expense.

A hybrid combo box should have been the only box that they release. God knows there is enough of the Vestel single tuner boxes already on the market.

Tony · 21-01-2016 11:28pm

I think Saorview would need Freesats approval to use their 7 days epg regardless of whether it was over the air or via the net. To date Freesat have been very protective of their epg, they took action pretty quickly against sat4free if memory serves.

bk · 25-01-2016 2:04am

Tony wrote: »

I think Saorview would need Freesats approval to use their 7 days epg regardless of whether it was over the air or via the net. To date Freesat have been very protective of their epg, they took action pretty quickly against sat4free if memory serves.

I don't see how Freesat could stop anyone from using EPG data accessed from the net.

It would of course be against the law to decrypt Freesats EPG data without their permission. But in the end remember the channel information doesn't actually belong to Freesat, it belongs to each individual channel.

Nothing stopping RTE from licensing that data directly, as they most already do for the RTE guide and use it to create their own EPG that would be directly accessed over the web.

Now I'm not saying they will do this, but I don't see any reason why they couldn't.

Tony · 25-01-2016 10:50am

Interesting idea . I guess it depends on whether they recognize the value users place on having a fully integrated EPG for both Saorview and Freesat.

bk wrote: »

Nothing stopping RTE from licensing that data directly, as they most already do for the RTE guide and use it to create their own EPG that would be directly accessed over the web.

Now I'm not saying they will do this, but I don't see any reason why they couldn't.

bk · 25-01-2016 3:44pm

bk wrote: »

Nothing stopping RTE from licensing that data directly, as they most already do for the RTE guide and use it to create their own EPG that would be directly accessed over the web.

Actually, thinking about it, they could even deliver a "Freesat like" EPG data via the Saorview EPG and DVB-T

In other words, RTE licenses the EPG data from the various FTA channels and transmit it via the Saorview EPG on DVB-T along with the FTA satellite location details. So combined Saorview/FTA sat combo boxes can pick up this EPG data from the Soarview transmission and display the full EPG.

If you think about it, it is much the same way Sky runs the "Freesat from Sky" service. They aren't using the Freesat EPG data, they are using their own licnsed EPG data.

Tony wrote: »

Interesting idea . I guess it depends on whether they recognize the value users place on having a fully integrated EPG for both Saorview and Freesat.

Yes, that is the key question. What does RTE/Saorview want to do and do they even see the issue?

For me, the need for integrated box and EPG is very clear. Time and time again, I've seen people buy Freesat boxes, with the intention of flicking between the Freesat box and a Saorview box/TV. But in reality I've seen that after a few weeks, they rarely, if ever, return to Saorview due to the vastly superior experience of Freesat and it just being too much trouble to deal with two remotes, etc.

I wonder if RTE are aware of this and the fact that it is likely to only get worse as more people buy Freesat boxes and as Freesat gets more channels (HD channels and UKTV channels, etc.). RTE could lose their key position as channel 101 to these people.

A fancier Saorview EPG and Irish only IPTV services aren't going to change this IMO. And people aren't going to buy a new expensive box if it just does Saorview. Best case scenario, they will just continue with their basic saorview compatible TVs

Personally I think it would be far better for RTE if they delivered a combi box with a fully integrated EPG, with RTE at channel 101, etc. and make it as easily as possible for people to use this one box to do everything.

Better for RTE to exist as position 1 of an EPG, then not on the EPG at all.

I think this is obvious to you and me, but I'm not sure it is obvious to the people at RTE.

MBSnr · 25-01-2016 4:10pm

^^^
Exactly. 95% of the time I watch Freesat. Occasionally RTE for the news and sporting events that they only have the rights to. Very rare to record anything on RTE - I watch live or not at all. They have shows on a few weeks ahead of the UK at times but I prefer to set them to record on one box (with it's nicer interface) and can live with not seeing it immediately.

I wouldn't be lining up to get a SAORVIEW Anywhere box for sure - seems fairly pointless. I wonder if they'll future proof it with DVB-T2 tuners as I see the trend is to move from DVB-T

The Cush · 25-01-2016 9:54pm

MBSnr wrote: »

I wonder if they'll future proof it with DVB-T2 tuners as I see the trend is to move from DVB-T

DVB-T2 has been mandatory for all newly approved Saorview receivers since 1st January 2013.

khumbu · 27-01-2016 8:34pm

Tony wrote: »

I think Saorview would need Freesats approval to use their 7 days epg regardless of whether it was over the air or via the net. To date Freesat have been very protective of their epg, they took action pretty quickly against sat4free if memory serves.

Pity the terrestrial MOU between Irish/British Governments on TV reception of each others signal didn't include Freesat EPG data?

The Cush · 27-01-2016 9:28pm

khumbu wrote: »

Pity the terrestrial MOU between Irish/British Governments on TV reception of each others signal didn't include Freesat EPG data?

The discussions that led up to the MoU had been going on a year or two before the agreement was signed which were terrestrial focused, at that time Freesat was a UK focused commercial satellite venture between the BBC and ITV.

Maybe Richard Waghorn, a former Freesat board director, joining RTÉ back in 2012 may have sown the seed for this venture with Freesat?

Maybe Freesat looking outside the UK and its alliance with other European FTA satellite platforms back in 2014 leading to the creation of the Metaphor smart TV guide solution for sat, terrestrial and cable, was the catalyst for this venture?

The Cush · 01-02-2016 9:50am

Tony wrote: »

Conor Pope from the Irish Times is following this also so he may publish more info from the possible consumer benefit point of view .

He has that article in the paper today, no extra info from a Saorview Connected point of view - Don’t pay a premium for TV channels you never watch

Small typo in the article, I assume he meant Sky/UPC channels

“I don’t have the sports or BBC channels, or the movie channels, but I have more than enough.”

Tony · 01-02-2016 2:48pm

I spoke with the guy who was being interviewed and apparently the online version has been corrected.

The Cush wrote: »

He has that article in the paper today, no extra info from a Saorview Connected point of view - Don’t pay a premium for TV channels you never watch

Small typo in the article, I assume he meant Sky/UPC channels

channelsurfer2 · 01-02-2016 4:29pm

I will hold out for this new box as I was considering getting the Enigma boxes. hopefully it will be worth the few months extra wait.

Atlantic Dawn · 01-02-2016 4:58pm

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

I will hold out for this new box as I was considering getting the Enigma boxes. hopefully it will be worth the few months extra wait.

I'd only wait if your happy spending about €250 on one.

channelsurfer2 · 01-02-2016 5:40pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I'd only wait if your happy spending about €250 on one.

Yep I know it will be around that price, which hopefully will justify the spend. The Enigmas/amiko etc. have benefits but its ease of use I am after which I am willing to pay more for rather than having to update images etc. or get the cool epg update.

The Cush · 01-02-2016 11:47pm

Saorview confirms there will be a combi box in the new range but no further details

https://twitter.com/SAORVIEW/status/694224003385401346

announcement soon

https://twitter.com/SAORVIEW/status/694223740855533568

Tony · 02-02-2016 12:16am

The Cush wrote: »

Saorview confirms there will be a combi box in the new range but no further details

Logical channel numbering is part of the spec for combo boxes which is a step forward I think.

The Cush · 02-02-2016 12:28am

Tony wrote: »

Logical channel numbering is part of the spec for combo boxes which is a step forward I think.

Just thinking out loud here and not expecting you to answer because of Saorview's NDA ...

LCNs for the sat channels I assume as the Saorview channels had their own LCNs on the previous approved combis.

So the question is are they Freesat LCNs or a tailored service for Saorview? Will it include UTV/ITV channels?

And of course will it be a combined or separate epg?

FRIENDO · 02-02-2016 7:56am

Will it be Saorsat approved?

My guess is that it will have separate epg like the Walker, possibly three choices, saorview, freesat and other Sat.

Sorry if already asked,
Will it have a built in hardrive for recording?

FreudianSlippers · 02-02-2016 10:27am

Tony wrote: »

Sorry I cannot comment on that right now as I've agreed non disclosure with saorview.

Just FYI - check your agreement again because often the non-disclosure agreements prohibit announcing that you have a non-disclosure agreement.

Yours may not, but just a heads-up so you stay out of the doghouse!

Tony · 02-02-2016 10:55am

I'm speculating here as although its in the spec I'm not sure how it will be implemented from a technical standpoint. I'd imagine they will make a table/database for saorview and satellite channels and then build that into the firmware so a tailored service as you suggested would be my view. There's no reason why it could not be a combined EPG if the LCN's are allocated correctly but this will have to be managed on an ongoing basis to take account of new saorview services and satellite transponder changes.

As for EPG I think it would be an own goal if it was not combined but at this point I've no knowledge as to what the plans are on this.

The Cush wrote: »

Just thinking out loud here and not expecting you to answer because of Saorview's NDA ...

LCNs for the sat channels I assume as the Saorview channels had their own LCNs on the previous approved combis.

So the question is are they Freesat LCNs or a tailored service for Saorview? Will it include UTV/ITV channels?

And of course will it be a combined or separate epg?

Tony · 02-02-2016 10:56am

That's a fair point but I'm allowed talk about what has already been released in the press .

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Just FYI - check your agreement again because often the non-disclosure agreements prohibit announcing that you have a non-disclosure agreement.

Yours may not, but just a heads-up so you stay out of the doghouse!

WheatenBriar · 02-02-2016 11:11am

I rarely watch anything on satellite anymore, I've a humax fvp4000t with series link on the freeview and freeview HD channels and although none on saorview, you can set anything there to record once from the epg
The tv has netflix,both it and freeviews on demand services routed through a 100% legal company vpn

The humax has a remote control app making it handy for controlling viewing in any room and a live tv anywhere app
The tv is a panny also with a live tv anywhere app meaning you can watch rte or Dave or whatever in France or Africa,America or Gorey on your phone or tablet via wifi or data

All this saorview anywhere stuff ergo is to me a bit meh

The Cush · 02-02-2016 11:33am

WheatenBriar wrote: »

All this saorview anywhere stuff ergo is to me a bit meh

A lot of us don't live in a Freeview reception area like you.

FRIENDO · 02-02-2016 12:00pm

WheatenBriar wrote: »

I rarely watch anything on satellite anymore, I've a humax fvp4000t with series link on the freeview and freeview HD channels and although none on saorview, you can set anything there to record once from the epg
The tv has netflix,both it and freeviews on demand services routed through a 100% legal company vpn

The humax has a remote control app making it handy for controlling viewing in any room and a live tv anywhere app
The tv is a panny also with a live tv anywhere app meaning you can watch rte or Dave or whatever in France or Africa,America or Gorey on your phone or tablet via wifi or data

All this saorview anywhere stuff ergo is to me a bit meh

Add your reply here.
We also must remember Freeview and Freesat were launched before Saorview and have had more time to advance.

With the population of the 26 counties and with the limited funding and support in comparison to freeview or Freesat, I believe Saorview/RTE are doing well.

We must also take into account the might of the Pay per view providers in this State along with the politics that could effect the Saorview development.

The added feature of having possible online apps available from Saorview will be most welcome.

At the moment freeview and Freesat apps are very restricted along with roll back features on the freesat freetime boxes in the State.

WheatenBriar · 02-02-2016 1:02pm

Aye, those features are very handy but restricted to the UK
That box has its freetime functions greyed out if not routed through a UK licence payers completely 100% legal vpn

The remote control app features are very handy,something saorview could be thinking about
I've attached a photo during the set up of the humax
A lot of channels, think it found 230 after,obviously preseli wales,but also Arklow, Kippure and mount Leinster saorview
It only stored Arklow, the strongest Saorview

Edit attachments aren't working today,its a boards issue

Tony · 02-02-2016 2:23pm

From Conor Popes article

"The new features will include a facility to catch up on missed programmes by scrolling back through the electronic programme guide, as well as a remote recording function."

Ten Pin · 02-02-2016 7:18pm

Is there a possibility that the new combo will software block Freesat programs that Saorview channels don't have first broadcast rights for?

The Cush · 02-02-2016 7:29pm

Ten Pin wrote: »

Is there a possibility that the new combo will software block Freesat programs that Saorview channels don't have first broadcast rights for?

Possibly not programming as it's already available FTA but they may block channels such as UTV/ITV at the broadcasters request to avoid conflicting with UTVI for example. If this is the case dedicated Freesat receivers will continue to be an option.

galtee boy · 02-02-2016 9:16pm

Tony wrote: »

I'm speculating here as although its in the spec I'm not sure how it will be implemented from a technical standpoint. I'd imagine they will make a table/database for saorview and satellite channels and then build that into the firmware so a tailored service as you suggested would be my view. There's no reason why it could not be a combined EPG if the LCN's are allocated correctly but this will have to be managed on an ongoing basis to take account of new saorview services and satellite transponder changes.

As for EPG I think it would be an own goal if it was not combined but at this point I've no knowledge as to what the plans are on this.

I hope you are correct about this and I know it's speculation, but I can't see how Freesat can allow their EPG, even a cut down version of it to be used in a box designed for the ROI. I would assume that TV3 and UTVI would go ballistic if ITV 1,2,3,4, and Channel 5 to name but five were available on the Saorview Connected EPG, as TV3 and UTVI show programmes that are also on those channels and I'm sure there are other Freesat channels whose programmes also show up on ROI channels. I know the Freesat channels are fta, but having them on the EPG with 7 day programming and series link etc is a different kettle of fish. Would Freesat not have to get permission from every single channel to allow its EPG data to appear on an Irish box and then the resultant rights issues etc ? Dont get me wrong, I would love to see the holy grail of a combined Saorview/Freesat EPG , but I can't see it happening. I think the combo box will just have a now/next EPG for satellite, but I'll live the dream until the official announcements from Saorview about the Connected boxes. When do we expect more news from Saorview anyway ?

The Cush · 02-02-2016 9:31pm

galtee boy wrote: »

When do we expect more news from Saorview anyway ?

Announcement soon according to their tweet yesterday

https://twitter.com/SAORVIEW/status/694223740855533568

STB. · 02-02-2016 10:32pm

Tony wrote: »

From Conor Popes article

"The new features will include a facility to catch up on missed programmes by scrolling back through the electronic programme guide, as well as a remote recording function."

Well that's is the main purpose of the Freetime software.

I gather that it will be just the RTE channels ? Although Tv3 have a playback service I doubt they would be organised or committed enough to get involved.

I don't think that this alone will be enough for people to part with their money. Smart TV's and Linux combo boxes running Ondemand plugin already have this feature for TV3 and RTE players. Hyperlinking in an epg grid isn't enough to entice me on DVB-T alone.

There has been huge investment in the infrastructure for the small number of channels available and I hate to harp on about this, but without a combo version that some sort of 7 day epg and autoupdate feature, the opportunity of offering a fool proof FTA platform will have been lost.

Tony · 03-02-2016 10:50am

As I mentioned before Freesat are very protective of their EPG and I'm not aware of any suggestion that they will allow it to be used by any other company.

galtee boy wrote: »

I know the Freesat channels are fta, but having them on the EPG with 7 day programming and series link etc is a different kettle of fish.

The Cush · 03-02-2016 11:10am

Tony wrote: »

As I mentioned before Freesat are very protective of their EPG and I'm not aware of any suggestion that they will allow it to be used by any other company.

In this case as well as developing the service for saorview Freesat will be actively managing it, if that makes a difference.

channelsurfer2 · 03-02-2016 12:43pm

So if Freesat manages the software then they can let it be used on a combi-box, but it will not ask you to actually be subscribe to anything. Then I guess all they are providing is software for you to access free to air channels but with a 7 day EPG that are freely available. It would be an interesting development.

Tony · 03-02-2016 1:28pm

Yes active management is essential but its not quite clear yet as to what will be managed. IE the interactive and the EPG or just the interactive part of the service.

The Cush wrote: »

In this case as well as developing the service for saorview Freesat will be actively managing it, if that makes a difference.

Tony · 03-02-2016 1:30pm

The saorview connect software will definitely be on the approved combo box but as to what type of EPG they will choose to allow thats another story.

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

So if Freesat manages the software then they can let it be used on a combi-box,

Saorview Connect

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