Abortion ref - am I the only one who doesn't care?

Lucy8080 · 01-05-2018 1:30am

This thread is like the repeal debate.

Do we have the right to tell the O.P. what he should do with his body (i.e. walk to a polling booth and lift a pencil to mark a card).

Orion · 01-05-2018 1:33am

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

I really don't care which side wins. I'm not registered and won't be voting. I barely go on Facebook these days because I'm sick of seeing posts about abortion. In work I have people trying to tease out which side I'm on and my response of 'don't know' seems to disappoint them.

I surely can't be the only one who doesn't give a toss about the outcome?

You're an idiot. /thread

A Pint of Goo · 01-05-2018 1:37am

Orion wrote: »

You're an idiot. /thread

In your opinion.

Toastytoes · 01-05-2018 1:49am

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

As ignorant as I am, I'm not as ignorant as you. The majority of men weren't given the right to vote because they have a penis

Men got the right to vote in 1884, women didn’t. Because they were women, not men. Ergo, penis = vote. Vagina= no vote.

chite · 01-05-2018 1:58am

end of the road wrote: »

to be fair, Sheila Hodgers died before the 8th was implemented.

True, she died in March of '83 (and baby), and the 8th was brought in September of that same year - but that's beside the point. She had been receiving treatment for cancer until she became pregnant, due to the ethos of the hospital and the harm that may affect the foetus.

I mentioned her to address the point of how repealing the 8th would prevent the likes of her case from happening, and how integral it is to women's healthcare (I could've said Savita, but we've all heard about that case - several accounts of women's stories (and men's) on the Facebook page, "In Her Shoes", is recommended reading for what I'm talking about).

Now off to bed I go.

Outlaw Pete · 01-05-2018 2:26am

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

The result is not important to me.

Perhaps not, but the result of the last abortion referendum might well have been very important to you in that had the result gone the other way, you might not be here.

So perhaps look at it that way. It was illegal when you were developing in the womb to decide to step in and end your life, discarding your remains. Wouldn't you therefore like that the rights that were afforded to you at that stage were afforded to others?

I know I would. I am grateful that Irish citizens voted to protect my rights in the womb and so that's what I intend to do also: vote to protect our developing young at their most vulnerable.

endacl · 01-05-2018 2:45am

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

In your opinion.

Dunno. I tend to agree. A consensus appears to be forming...

Are Am Eye · 01-05-2018 2:50am

I think it could be easily added to the referendum papers - an additional question "Do you care a fxck one way or the other"?

It's the only way we can get credible, accurate data on this issue.

Cookie_Monster · 01-05-2018 5:32am

It's hard to care that much when you can 100% guarantee whichever way the result goes the govt will completely botch any future legislation anyway and it'll rumble on for another decade or so unfixed.
why can't we just have EU law made by grown ups on the topic?

RDM_83 again · 01-05-2018 6:48am

DaveyDave wrote: »

---

I think it's pretty childish to not vote. You don't have to care about it to vote,

Ah here I think it's pretty important that people care at least a bit about what they are voting on, otherwise they might as well just flip a coin before going to the booth.

DaveyDave wrote: »

I'll be there to vote Yes. It's fine if people disagree with abortion but the fact of the matter is this vote is to do with giving women choice.

You're a great addition to our society...

No the vote is to remove the 8th nothing else, that's one of the problems with all this what's actually applied is in the hands of the politicians rather than the people, also one of the most of the popular stances raised by the Citizen's Convention, amending the 8th isn't being given as a choice.

Why get personal? Would it be better if they were voting to retain the 8th due to caring a lot?

I would say that there is going to be a lower turn out than expected know several lads that aren't voting and that's simply people who will out right say it.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 01-05-2018 7:30am

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I would say that there is going to be a lower turn out than expected know several lads that aren't voting and that's simply people who will out right say it.

That's because of the attention this while farce it's gathering.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't

You're the biggest evil murderer if you vote yes and you're the biggest evil murderer if you vote no.

People shoving opinions in my face in the city and across the country can ask the back end of my sack.

The information is there if we want to look it up, the dates and how to are there if we want to vote and when.

Personally I think their shouldn't be canvassing of posters , flyers , TV/radio/internet adverts, protests etc.

Stick all the information onto a non biased website , keep opinions to yourselfs and go and vote what you think is right without judgement.

I'll be voting myself, and if anyone asks what I'm voting, they'll be told "I'm voting" that's all that matters.

**** The above is how it should be done and that's it really.****

As this forum is for discussion and opinions and I'm going to say here what I'm voting and it is a yes vote.

Because too long this backwards / arseways country has been run on rule from the Catholic church. We want to be seen as a modern European country and move on in the world , currently in the 21st century but yet we are using some laws defined / created by the church and it needs to end.

One thing that annoys me about this debate too is people just seem to be under the illusion that removing the 8th will open up abortion to people that just didn't use contraception and couldn't be bothered etc when it's not the case. Or people that have their old fashioned view of abortion is murder.

I wish these people knew or seen how many people travel for abortions or even at home go through some extreme events of hoping to miscarry.

I disagree with the advert (appears for me on dailymotion) where the doctor (female) claims she believes in true healthcare etc and she's voting no.... But hey she's pregnant, and I'd say there's a doctor I hope not to visit.

Where doctors will sit idle by and let a woman suffer and cannot treat because of pregnancy.

Anyway I'm ranting.... Good luck to all sides here , and remember no matter what you do, you're wrong.

Wanderer78 · 01-05-2018 7:50am

A Pint of Goo wrote:

I surely can't be the only one who doesn't give a toss about the outcome?

I'd always say, get out and vote anyway, no matter what the campaign is about, democracy has been a very powerful creation by mankind, but it requires our participation in order to exist and survive.

Ave Sodalis · 01-05-2018 7:53am

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote:

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't

I think the only thing anyone can do is go out and find out all the information, go to official and/or expert sources, and vote with a good understanding of what's involved.

suicide_circus · 01-05-2018 8:40am

Abstaining from a vote is a valid democratic decision in ireland.

Vlad Kelly · 01-05-2018 8:59am

You should be voting no obviously, we're talking about killing babies and hoovering them out of the womb, but if you really don't care you could sell your vote to somebody. I didn't care about the gay marriage thing because it didn't matter so I just told a rabid leftist friend I'd vote the way they wanted for 50 quid. Bunsen burner, nice little earner.

Omackeral · 01-05-2018 9:00am

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I think the only thing anyone can do is go out and find out all the information, go to official and/or expert sources, and vote with a good understanding of what's involved.

And if you’re not convinced one way or the other do you think it’s acceptable to abstain?

A Pint of Goo · 01-05-2018 9:04am

Toastytoes wrote: »

Men got the right to vote in 1884, women didn’t. Because they were women, not men. Ergo, penis = vote. Vagina= no vote.

Universal suffrage for men didn't come about until WWI. Women had to protest in the street to get the vote, the average man had to die by the millions in the battlefields of Europe.

Put like that I probably should vote....on matters I care about!

Wanderer78 · 01-05-2018 9:10am

suicide_circus wrote: »

Abstaining from a vote is a valid democratic decision in ireland.

this is true, and people are perfectly entitled to do this, but participation is a key element of maintaining some sort of democratic control, you can always spoil your vote if needs be

Ave Sodalis · 01-05-2018 9:14am

Omackeral wrote:

And if youâ€™re not convinced one way or the other do you think itâ€™s acceptable to abstain?

It's your right to abstain.

However, with all these referendums that involve rights and human empathy (marriage ref, woman's vote etc), an abstain is saying that you want nothing to change, which is the same as a No vote. That may or may not be the intended consequence, but it should be taken into consideration when you are deciding.

whisky_galore · 01-05-2018 9:16am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Couldn’t give a sh1t. Housing and health far more important. Probably will vote yes if I can bother my arse to get out there.

You won't find many protests, no cute logos and no catchy hashtags about our abominable health system or housing even though it impacts on far more people than abortion ever will.

There's only people dying over HSE fcuk-ups and dying on the streets.

If this is passed, I wonder how many will die through botched abortions courtesy of the HSE?

lawred2 · 01-05-2018 9:16am

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

This is what I find interesting. I'm 'supposed' to care, I don't. And why should I?

you have a civic responsibility to society and to your fellow citizens

It's a consequence of a being a grown up in a democratic society

but it's easier not to care

and so cool as well

mickoneill31 · 01-05-2018 9:23am

I listened to a podcast of an analysis of Facebook manipulation during the US election.

One point they made that was they can identify which way you're likely to vote. If you were going to vote against them they would target your ads to try and deter you from voting at all. Like the op.
They knew they wouldnt get you to change your vote so getting you not to vote is still a win. So while I don't really care I have an opinion. So I vote.

If everybody who didn't really care, voted in the Brexit referendum I think thered have been a different result.

Wanderer78 · 01-05-2018 9:25am

mickoneill31 wrote: »

I listened to a podcast of an analysis of Facebook manipulation during the US election.

One point they made that was they can identify which way you're likely to vote. If you were going to vote against them they would target your ads to try and deter you from voting at all. Like the op.
They knew they wouldnt get you to change your vote so getting you not to vote is still a win. So while I don't really care I have an opinion. So I vote.

If everybody who didn't really care, voted in the Brexit referendum I think thered have been a different result.

can you link that podcast? thank you

Hitman3000 · 01-05-2018 9:26am

OP well done 74 (including mine) posts, including mine discussing 'how you don't care' but just enough to start a thread. Almost like you wanted to troll. ; )

von Smallhausen · 01-05-2018 9:32am

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

I really don't care which side wins. I'm not registered and won't be voting. I barely go on Facebook these days because I'm sick of seeing posts about abortion. In work I have people trying to tease out which side I'm on and my response of 'don't know' seems to disappoint them.

I surely can't be the only one who doesn't give a toss about the outcome?

Nope. I'm in the same boat. Won't be in the country anyway. But I do wish that they would f**k right off with the distracting posters on every single lamp post. Some are even up so high you have to look up to see them, which is a major distraction while driving.

The Bishop Basher · 01-05-2018 9:34am

My 15 year old daughter has been discussing this topic with us and trying to form her views on it. Both myself and my wife struggle to find a position that we’re comfortable with such is the complexity of the issue so we try and share the facts as best we can and leave the door open for discussion.

She came home visibly upset yesterday and said they were chatting about it in school. She mentioned that there were some girls that were extremely vocal and in favour of a yes vote. She mentioned during the discussion that she didn’t know what way to think about it and was subsequently launched on, abused and called a cee you next tues by one of the extreme “yes” girls for daring to think for herself.

I explained that this is what it’s like for grown ups too.

On one end you have the yes side who tend to shout a lot and righteously tell everyone else that they’re wrong.

On the other end of the spectrum we have a small core group of religious nutters doing exactly the same thing..

And the rest of us are stuck somewhere in the middle just trying to do the right thing by our own conscience whatever way that may land.

Ash.J.Williams · 01-05-2018 9:35am

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

I really don't care which side wins. I'm not registered and won't be voting. I barely go on Facebook these days because I'm sick of seeing posts about abortion. In work I have people trying to tease out which side I'm on and my response of 'don't know' seems to disappoint them.

I surely can't be the only one who doesn't give a toss about the outcome?

Have you any family members that may require an abortion at any time in the future?

Fann Linn · 01-05-2018 9:37am

Hitman3000 wrote: »

OP well done 74 (including mine) posts, including mine discussing 'how you don't care' but just enough to start a thread. Almost like you wanted to troll. ; )

Apathy isn't just confined to the op. 150,000 young people still haven't regiatered to vote according to the National Youth Council. Personally speaking I couldn't care either, I'll probably vote the same way as I did laat time we had a vote on this matter, however,if I missed the polling booth that day I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
I'm with the op.

mickoneill31 · 01-05-2018 9:40am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

can you link that podcast? thank you

It was about a year ago so I'm not entirely sure.
It was one of Sam Harris.
I just had a google and I think it was this one.

https://samharris.org/podcasts/the-russia-connection/

smokingman · 01-05-2018 9:44am

So a new reg promotes people not voting after the polls show a load of undecided voters...
Not suspicious at all at all...

seachto7 · 01-05-2018 9:52am

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

Froshtbit wrote: »

It's kind of a big deal for everybody. I dont partake in conversations related to it at work or on facebook but you know, it' understandable why people are talking about it.

I get that's a big deal for a lot of people, but there's surely plenty of people like me who don't give a ****?

Well you should give a f**k. It might have an impact on a friend or relation down the line.
Me me me me me me ,

Billgirlylegs · 01-05-2018 10:05am

Maybe RedC/Irish Times/MRBI could add new categories to polling options - Yes / No / I Don't Know / I Don't Care / I Don't Want To Talk About It.

NickNickleby · 01-05-2018 10:06am

I actually think this is a useful thread.

I'm one of those 'undecideds'. No doubt some will throw up their hands in horror at such an admission in the face of so much 'evidence'. My difficulty is that I can see some argument for both sides. Anyway, my position is not the point of the thread.......**

I believe that voting in any election/referendum should be compulsory. Otherwise only the truly committed get to decide on important matters. This might sound ideal, but the risk is that those most committed souls may not accurately reflect the aspiration of the majority.

So, to the OP I would say - you absolutely should vote, and you should try to inform yourself as best you can beforehand. You should care about the outcome because it will shape our society. You will have to live in that society.

** the opener was to put some context around my point and to say that come what may, I WILL be voting. Perversely perhaps, I may even consider spoiling my vote. But the total poll will still reflect that I took part.

Red_Wake · 01-05-2018 10:17am

I'm not too pushed about the referendum. If I was in politics, I'd only be using it as a bargaining chip to entice a party with strong views on the issue into coalition, in exchange for unquestioningly following my vision. It'd be a bargaining chip and nothing more.

Pat Mustard · 01-05-2018 10:19am

I'm so sick of hearing about the bloody referendum that for some time, a large part of me wanted nothing to do with it. My own little protest in my head was going to be abstention from voting.

Sometimes I have these self indulgent episodes.

NickNickleby · 01-05-2018 10:20am

Red_Wake wrote: »

I'm not too pushed about the referendum. If I was in politics, I'd only be using it as a bargaining chip to entice a party with strong views on the issue into coalition, in exchange for unquestioningly following my vision. It'd be a bargaining chip and nothing more.

That's an interesting point. I've often thought over the years, that parties choose a position based on political expediency rather than conscience or 'the right thing'.

Silly cynical me.

Mutant z · 01-05-2018 10:21am

Whether you care or not it will have a major impact on this country so its highly important and one which every citizen who's eligible to vote should there's no point in not voting and moaning about the result after when you're 1 vote could have been the difference in whatever outcome it ends up bring so a vote is a must for every Irish citizen.

Mutant z · 01-05-2018 10:22am

Whether you care or not it will have a major impact on this country so its highly important and one which every citizen who's eligible to vote should there's no point in not voting and moaning about the result after when you're 1 vote could have been the difference in whatever outcome it ends up being so a vote is a must for every Irish citizen to determine the future of this country.

Pat Mustard · 01-05-2018 10:25am

Red_Wake wrote: »

I'm not too pushed about the referendum. If I was in politics, I'd only be using it as a bargaining chip to entice a party with strong views on the issue into coalition, in exchange for unquestioningly following my vision. It'd be a bargaining chip and nothing more.

Somewhat like the prominent Irish politicians who were pro-life, who then "struggled with their beliefs" are now pro-choice.

Q: what changed?
A: the wind.

whisky_galore · 01-05-2018 10:28am

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Somewhat like the prominent Irish politicians who were pro-life, who then "struggled with their beliefs" are now pro-choice.

Q: what changed?
A: the wind.

Depends on their fan-base, example the Healy-Raes will never be 'struggling' with their beliefs.

Mutant z · 01-05-2018 10:29am

seachto7 wrote: »

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

Froshtbit wrote: »

It's kind of a big deal for everybody. I dont partake in conversations related to it at work or on facebook but you know, it' understandable why people are talking about it.

I get that's a big deal for a lot of people, but there's surely plenty of people like me who don't give a ****?

Well you should give a f**k. It might have an impact on a friend or relation down the line.
Me me me me me me ,

Exactly it never ceases to amaze me how some people could be so ignorant when it could affect one of their own family members down the line its hugely important to go out there and cast your vote at least you could make a difference rather than sitting around not caring.

Squatter · 01-05-2018 10:32am

NickNickleby wrote: »

I may even consider spoiling my vote. But the total poll will still reflect that I took part.

That's the way I'm leaning too. There are far too many nasties on both sides of the debate for me to feel comfortable supporting either faction. Even on this thread there's been quite a lot of patronising talking down to the OP for daring not to care.

Furthermore, given the growing number of pond lives (both Right and Left Wing) and populist chancers that are being elected/appointed to both houses of the Oireachtas, I'm more than a little sceptical of their ability to make good laws, should the repealers win the day.

Pat Mustard · 01-05-2018 10:37am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Depends on their fan-base, example the Healy-Raes will never be 'struggling' with their beliefs.

I can respect people who maintain their genuinely held beliefs.
I can respect people who change their beliefs, legitimately, after careful consideration.

But backflips for votes is not a policy that should be supported.

I'm probably being a bit naive, now. We are talking about politicians. What the hell are we meant to expect.

taserfrank · 01-05-2018 10:44am

I won't be bothered voting- I couldn't give a damn about this referendum, even though it would have been funny to see the meltdown of the left if they lost!

smokingman · 01-05-2018 10:47am

Have a read of the "In her shoes" Facebook group and then ask yourself if you don't care.
It's barbaric what's happening and we need to start treating our ladies better as a society.

Hitman3000 · 01-05-2018 10:50am

Squatter wrote:

That's the way I'm leaning too. There are far too many nasties on both sides of the debate for me to feel comfortable supporting either faction. Even on this thread there's been quite a lot of patronising talking down to the OP for daring not to care.

How about look at the referendum in isolation and ignore the gobsh*tes on both sides. Then make your decision.

Pat Mustard · 01-05-2018 10:51am

taserfrank wrote: »

I won't be bothered voting- I couldn't give a damn about this referendum, even though it would have been funny to see the meltdown of the left if they lost!

If it doesn't pass this time, there is likely to be another referendum next year. The illusion of choice and all that.

RDM_83 again · 01-05-2018 11:00am

Pat Mustard wrote: »

If it doesn't pass this time, there is likely to be another referendum next year. The illusion of choice and all that.

It will definitely pass like despite the people who want to bring in a UK style system the referendum is about the 8th, like i regularly argue with the more hard core pro-choice posters but will probably vote to repeal (not sure if I am in country) as the 8th isn't appropriate or even functional.

Pat Mustard · 01-05-2018 11:04am

I think that it will pass eventually but I don't see how you can be so sure that it will pass on the first go. Maybe it won't.

indy_man · 01-05-2018 11:05am

Abortion ref - am I the only one who doesn't care?

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