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12-07-2017, 17:55   #61
IE 222
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I was always of the opinion that EI and FR could have flights leave DUB between 10Pm and 12 PM heading to the usual bucket and spade routes returning between 4am and 5:30am, then be ready for the morning departure bank starting at 6am.

I'm sure there is a reason they don't currently do it in the summer however I think it could work.
Not very family-friendly also hotel check in times don't help and people will loose time of their hols
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12-07-2017, 18:04   #62
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I was always of the opinion that EI and FR could have flights leave DUB between 10Pm and 12 PM heading to the usual bucket and spade routes returning between 4am and 5:30am, then be ready for the morning departure bank starting at 6am.

I'm sure there is a reason they don't currently do it in the summer however I think it could work.
Not very family-friendly also hotel check in times don't help and people will loose time of their hols
I dont think that would be an issue, many*most* UK charter and holiday airlines do these flights, TUI, Thomas Cook, Monarch, Jet2 etc frequently have flights through the night, it can work, but you have leave space for your fleet to catch up delays, maintenance, cleaning etc.
This type of operation also relies on flexible airports etc one down side is that is creates difficulty in terms of crewing, crew have a limit of deep night hours they can do, and to transition back to early or even mid day starts they'd require an extra day off. EI have a terrible reputation for crewing, throw in TA flights to the mix and you have a rostering nightmare.
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12-07-2017, 20:55   #63
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Question : would Seattle be a runner - long stretch but massive tech hub and the bus class fares + feed to Portland and Vancouver is there.
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12-07-2017, 21:16   #64
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Bringing back EI102 would be a start and pushing LAX and SFO out 3 or 4 hours for later arrival in Dublin could work. A 3rd early service on Boston as well. Chicago and Miami are well fed with direct or connection flights already plus there longer routes.

The A321 order can help with adding extra morning flights to the likes of Chicago and Boston. I also think EI would do very well targeting the likes of Winnipeg, Halifax, St. John's, Buffalo, Richmond, Portland (Maine) and Quebec with A321s. Personally I think EI are leaving themselves short on A321.
They can always order more if they feel the demand is there.
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12-07-2017, 21:31   #65
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 Personally I think EI are leaving themselves short on A321.
Unfortunately Aer Lingus are at the mercy of IAG, they'll only ever get as many aircraft as IAG want. Management will have to compete with the other carriers in the group for aircraft orders and general investment. 

Just look at the A350, an aircraft Aer Lingus ordered themselves but was quickly transferred to BA/IB after the take over. Same story with the large number of A320neo's on the IAG order books, recently divided up between Iberia, British Airways and Vueling while Aer Lingus will seemingly have to wait a lot longer than its partners for a short haul replacement.
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12-07-2017, 21:40   #66
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The only trick with this is getting planes out of Dublin early enough. It could be done if there was the will (5:30am DUB-ORD anyone?) but I can't see it.
What about late afternoon fights to the US?
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12-07-2017, 21:41   #67
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Bringing back EI102 would be a start and pushing LAX and SFO out 3 or 4 hours for later arrival in Dublin could work. A 3rd early service on Boston as well. Chicago and Miami are well fed with direct or connection flights already plus there longer routes.

The A321 order can help with adding extra morning flights to the likes of Chicago and Boston. I also think EI would do very well targeting the likes of Winnipeg, Halifax, St. John's, Buffalo, Richmond, Portland (Maine) and Quebec with A321s. Personally I think EI are leaving themselves short on A321.
It doesn't matter. LHR has a dayflight from Chicago and it is further away.
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12-07-2017, 21:47   #68
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What about late afternoon fights to the US?
If you want to make the most of your aircraft they need to go both ways across the atlantic every 24 hours.

An 8:00am departure from JFK would get into DUB ~8:00pm. You're not going to get a 10:00pm departure from DUB-JFK realistically, so you want to do it the other way around – which is what EI102 did; send over a plane as early as you can and bring it back before midnight.
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12-07-2017, 22:22   #69
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7 hours from JFK? 8am would get in at 6pm.

Anyway, my suggestion is the following:

Dublin to Boston: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 12pm to 11pm
Dublin to JFK: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 12pm to 11pm
Dublin to YYZ: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 12pm to 11pm
Dublin to ORD: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 10am to 11pm

So that's 11-13 hours at each base.

Some will complain but British Airways do something similar. Dublin will have a passenger of 30 million this year so I am sure that the airport will now have ample demand for dayflights.

Alternatively, you could have 8am departures which will have a 9 hour gap but that doesn't take full advantage of the midday departures which gives more time in bed.
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12-07-2017, 22:42   #70
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Bringing back EI102 would be a start and pushing LAX and SFO out 3 or 4 hours for later arrival in Dublin could work. A 3rd early service on Boston as well. Chicago and Miami are well fed with direct or connection flights already plus there longer routes.

The A321 order can help with adding extra morning flights to the likes of Chicago and Boston. I also think EI would do very well targeting the likes of Winnipeg, Halifax, St. John's, Buffalo, Richmond, Portland (Maine) and Quebec with A321s. Personally I think EI are leaving themselves short on A321.
Winnipeg, Buffalo, Richmond VA, Portland ME? This way bankruptcy lies....
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12-07-2017, 22:45   #71
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Unfortunately Aer Lingus are at the mercy of IAG, they'll only ever get as many aircraft as IAG want. Management will have to compete with the other carriers in the group for aircraft orders and general investment. 

Just look at the A350, an aircraft Aer Lingus ordered themselves but was quickly transferred to BA/IB after the take over. Same story with the large number of A320neo's on the IAG order books, recently divided up between Iberia, British Airways and Vueling while Aer Lingus will seemingly have to wait a lot longer than its partners for a short haul replacement.
I know but if things continue as they are and if Ireland do well in terms of brexit relocations that should give EI a stronger hand.

I personally wouldn't completely write off A350 order. They won't get the 9 but I think 2 or 3 could be possible.

Last edited by IE 222; 12-07-2017 at 23:23.
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12-07-2017, 23:15   #72
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7 hours from JFK? 8am would get in at 6pm.

Anyway, my suggestion is the following:

Dublin to Boston: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 12pm to 11pm
Dublin to JFK: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 12pm to 11pm
Dublin to YYZ: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 12pm to 11pm
Dublin to ORD: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 10am to 11pm

So that's 11-13 hours at each base.

Some will complain but British Airways do something similar. Dublin will have a passenger of 30 million this year so I am sure that the airport will now have ample demand for dayflights.

Alternatively, you could have 8am departures which will have a 9 hour gap but that doesn't take full advantage of the midday departures which gives more time in bed.
It would require a whole schedule change or require nearly doubling the fleet presuming your keeping current services in place as well.

There is two ways of doing It, either go out early in the morning pre 7am for same day return or turn departure times the opposite way and depart Dublin late night to arrive back in the late afternoon the next day.

My original point was to utilise aircraft and serve more medium haul routes without having to source new frames. Yes US connections would be helpful but it wouldn't need to be fed from every US city. My idea would be to use the first 3 or 4 short haul arriving back in Dub for the night to be sent out by 8 - 9pm returning between 5 and 7am for normal duties and also feed current US morning/midday flights. Given the normal early evening short haul and eastern long haul departures these additional late medium haul would give Dublin an attractive hub operation.
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12-07-2017, 23:22   #73
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Winnipeg, Buffalo, Richmond VA, Portland ME? This way bankruptcy lies....
I don't suggest serving each of them daily or straight away all at once but with the new A321 these routes will become workable out as they have no or very little TATL routes. Connections onwards from Dublin would also be very important.

Look at Westjet, ASL and Norwigen and Hartford has done alright for itself albeit a healthy payment way made to kick start it but maybe some of these airports will be willing to offer something similar.
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12-07-2017, 23:36   #74
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Unfortunately Aer Lingus are at the mercy of IAG, they'll only ever get as many aircraft as IAG want. Management will have to compete with the other carriers in the group for aircraft orders and general investment. 

Just look at the A350, an aircraft Aer Lingus ordered themselves but was quickly transferred to BA/IB after the take over. Same story with the large number of A320neo's on the IAG order books, recently divided up between Iberia, British Airways and Vueling while Aer Lingus will seemingly have to wait a lot longer than its partners for a short haul replacement.
There is still no confirmation on the A350's. Not saying I don't agree with you but I find it strange they still show as being EI bound.
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13-07-2017, 00:49   #75
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There is still no confirmation on the A350's. Not saying I don't agree with you but I find it strange they still show as being EI bound.
Probably easier to still list them as an EI order rather than just saying 'IAG'? That said I still wouldn't rule out some of them flying for EI eventually.
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