Abolish the Dole

tayto lover · 05-09-2018 10:19pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What do you think of the proposal to have workers contribute to a stand alone scheme to pay for their future pensions. A separate contribution extra to income tax and PRSI? That would be a solution since your are so interested.

I paid into my own pension for almost 50 years. I'm still working and still paying all my taxes too.
How many years have you been paying towards yours?

Wheeliebin30 · 05-09-2018 10:28pm

Try_harder wrote: »

So sky digital, internet and shopping trips to Newry makes one middle class?

Jaysus

She’s pulling in 50k a year for doing nothing on top of a free house.

She’s actually richer than 90% of the population!!!

Sweetemotion · 05-09-2018 10:29pm

Feeling genuine rage too point of illness?

That's not right. I wonder do these people who want to abolish the dole realise how much they would be spending in personal security if it was gone.

Try_harder · 05-09-2018 10:30pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

She’s pulling in 50k a year for doing nothing on top of a free house.

She’s actually richer than 90% of the population!!!

she doesn't have a free house afaik, her fella did but he was released last week!

11 people on 50K is 4.5K pp

I win!

Sephiroth_dude · 05-09-2018 10:33pm

John from Carlow wrote: »

I believe the Irish government should cut social welfare payments drastically and implement a food stamp program similar to the one currently running in the USA. This would allow the government to free up cash to reduce borrowing and reduce the tax burden on the middle classes. It sickens me that people like Margaret Cash have the money for Sky digital subscriptions, shopping trips to Newry and computers with internet connections to post their drivel on Facebook. It has got to the stage were these people genuinely believe they deserve a reasonable middle-ish class lifestyle at the expense of the state. This may seem harsh to some but it is only fair that people that don't work live in abject poverty and are subjected to all the ills that such a lifestyle predisposes them to. I feel genuine rage that I am paying for other people's way through life; it makes me feel genuinely ill. At the moment the only viable alternative is to move to the US, a country where hard work is rewarded and the likes of Margaret Cash are left were they belong - in the gutter.

Why not cut politicians ridiculous salaries instead?

Wheeliebin30 · 05-09-2018 10:34pm

Try_harder wrote: »

she doesn't have a free house afaik, her fella did but he was released last week!

11 people on 50K is 4.5K pp

I win!

She’ll get her free forever home believe me.

You win what??

Yer Da sells Avon · 05-09-2018 10:34pm

Strazdas wrote: »

It's a myth that people on the dole have an easy time and it's a lifestyle choice. Social Protection, Intreo, Seetec and the rest are very proactive and tens of thousands of people have had their money cut or suspended for not engaging with the system.

The hilarious thing about JobPath is that the only people who gain jobs as a direct result of it are the employees of Seetec and Turas Nua - they also get a bonus if their 'client' finds a job (with or without their help).

I had to sign on the dole after finishing college, and was referred to Turas Nua. It ended up almost being an impediment to finding work. I had to reschedule three appointments with my 'advisor' (a very nice man, but with zero qualifications for the job - he could barely use a computer) at short notice because of clashes with interviews. As a result, my payment got cut and it took a lot of effort to eventually get it reinstated. Luckily one of those interviews was successful, but it was very much despite 'JobPath', not because of it. I like a quiet life, so I'll probably just allow them to take credit for it and receive their undeserved bonus. They'll keep hounding me for my employer's details otherwise.

DontThankMe · 05-09-2018 10:36pm

Try_harder wrote: »

Not always. He could live frugally and ship it all to his Cayman Islands savings

Its a poor rerturn when you have to use totals to enhance rich people’s contribution to the local economy

The exact same could be said when you choose to use percentages to enhance dole recipients contribution to the local economy.

dxhound2005 · 05-09-2018 10:39pm

Try_harder wrote: »

11 people on 50K is 4.5K pp

This is where all these arguments for employers to pay a "living wage" fall down. One employee could be living with their parents rent free, 5 minutes from the workplace. Their colleague doing the same job could have to travel 50 miles to get to work. And have a spouse and 4 children to support, as well as paying €700 a month mortgage.

How is the employer supposed to pay a living wage to both?

Cabaal · 06-09-2018 6:28am

Try_harder wrote: »

I was in San Fran and it was disgusting to see abject poverty and extreme wealth everywhere. People abandoned left to live on the streets and beg, is that a society we want?

Apparently the op does,

Maybe we should copy the US and their insane basket case of a health system too? Who wouldn't like to pay around a thousand euro plus in the ER to get a broken arm fixed?

I'll go with the HSE any day over the US system, it's not perfect but at least I won't have to remortgage my house to pay for treatment

Wanderer78 · 06-09-2018 6:43am

Cabaal wrote:

Maybe we should copy the US and their insane basket case of a health system too? Who wouldn't like to pay around a thousand euro plus in the ER to get a broken arm fixed?

Light weights, we should also encourage heavily arming our citizens, increase their stresses by all means, and see what happens, this should keep everyone in check

suicide_circus · 06-09-2018 7:04am

the SW system is the mechanism by which folks like my wife and I pay folks like Ms Cash to have the children that we can't afford to have.

fxotoole · 06-09-2018 7:06am

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Why not cut politicians ridiculous salaries instead?

Because that wouldn’t make even a tiny dent in the overall government spend. Health and Social Welfare are the two biggest budget spends iirc

Wanderer78 · 06-09-2018 7:06am

suicide_circus wrote:

the SW system is the mechanism by which folks like my wife and I pay folks like Ms Cash to have the children that we can't afford to have.

Strangely enough, it might just keep you and your wife alive if anything should happen to either of you preventing either of you working

fxotoole · 06-09-2018 7:09am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This is where all these arguments for employers to pay a "living wage" fall down. One employee could be living with their parents rent free, 5 minutes from the workplace. Their colleague doing the same job could have to travel 50 miles to get to work. And have a spouse and 4 children to support, as well as paying €700 a month mortgage.

How is the employer supposed to pay a living wage to both?

It’s a universal payment, just like Child Benefit. Even Michael O’Leary is entitled to it.

suicide_circus · 06-09-2018 7:13am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Strangely enough, it might just keep you and your wife alive if anything should happen to either of you preventing either of you working

yes indeed. I ended up on the dole for a few months back in '08. Took the first minimum wage job I could get and went from there, perhaps I should have stayed on it.

Wanderer78 · 06-09-2018 7:48am

suicide_circus wrote: »

yes indeed. I ended up on the dole for a few months back in '08. Took the first minimum wage job I could get and went from there, perhaps I should have stayed on it.

strangely enough, it can be a better option for some, sometimes

suicide_circus · 06-09-2018 7:51am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

strangely enough, it can be a better option for some, sometimes

yes and that is problematic.

Wanderer78 · 06-09-2018 7:52am

suicide_circus wrote: »

yes and that is problematic.

true, when critical systems are not resourced enough to deal with complex social issues, it most certainly can be very problematic

Sardonicat · 06-09-2018 8:03am

John from Carlow wrote: »

I feel genuine rage that I am paying for other people's way through life; it makes me feel genuinely ill.

If this is the case, I genuinely believe you should seek professional help.

suicide_circus · 06-09-2018 8:06am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

true, when critical systems are not resourced enough to deal with complex social issues, it most certainly can be very problematic

when safety nets become a permanent multi generational lifestyle choice actively encouraging state dependence over work, we all suffer.

Wanderer78 · 06-09-2018 8:21am

suicide_circus wrote: »

when safety nets become a permanent multi generational lifestyle choice actively encouraging state dependence over work, we all suffer.

what if these 'safety nets' are actually trapping people, and not effectively dealing with whatever complex issues these individuals have

Try_harder · 06-09-2018 8:35am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

what if these 'safety nets' are actually trapping people, and not effectively dealing with whatever complex issues these individuals have

Dont be silly its all the persons own making! Dont bring complex external influences into it, it makes them angrier

suicide_circus · 06-09-2018 8:47am

ah yes, the poor are totally devoid of agency or strategy and are but flotsam on a sea of circumstance. the bigotry of low expectations and an ideological gra for big government.

Wanderer78 · 06-09-2018 8:48am

suicide_circus wrote: »

ah yes, the poor are totally devoid of agency or strategy and are but flotsam on a sea of circumstance. the bigotry of low expectations and an ideological gra for big government.

have you ever spent some time with long term unemployed?

suicide_circus · 06-09-2018 8:49am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

have you ever spent some time with long term unemployed?

that would be most of my neighbours

Wanderer78 · 06-09-2018 8:50am

suicide_circus wrote: »

that would be most of my neighbours

ever noticed anything unusual with their behavior?

suicide_circus · 06-09-2018 8:52am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ever noticed anything unusual with their behavior?

not sure, unusual by what standard?

Wanderer78 · 06-09-2018 8:53am

suicide_circus wrote: »

not sure, unusual by what standard?

why are they in the situation that they are in?

suicide_circus · 06-09-2018 8:58am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

why are they in the situation that they are in?

for a good few it would be because their parents were in the same boat and it's normal for them

Wanderer78 · 06-09-2018 8:59am

suicide_circus wrote: »

for a good few it would be because their parents were in the same boat and it's normal for them

so whats the problem?

suicide_circus · 06-09-2018 9:01am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so whats the problem?

seriously?

Wanderer78 · 06-09-2018 9:02am

suicide_circus wrote: »

seriously?

yes seriously?

Hitman3000 · 06-09-2018 9:02am

Ah the twice weekly dole bashing thread .....

PlaneSpeeking · 06-09-2018 9:07am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

what if these 'safety nets' are actually trapping people, and not effectively dealing with whatever complex issues these individuals have

Being bone idle and wanting someone else to pay for everything is NOT complex!

Wanderer78 · 06-09-2018 9:08am

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Being bone idle and wanting someone else to pay for everything is NOT complex!

so laziness?

06-09-2018 9:09am

I feel like thread is mostly made up of people paid to push an agenda. Which political party though?

suicide_circus · 06-09-2018 9:16am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yes seriously?

you're asking me what the problem is with multiple generations of the same families being wards of the state?

Try_harder · 06-09-2018 9:29am

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Being bone idle and wanting someone else to pay for everything is NOT complex!

You dont think being bone idle is a simple catch all phrase that gives the user the answer they want?

Lollipops23 · 06-09-2018 9:30am

My OH has recently had to sign on after being made redundant. He has no plan to stay sitting on it for long; he already has interviews lined up.

You think he should be made "exist" on food stamps for the foreseeable? Why? He's paid into the system since he was 16. Why would you want to make him suffer even more than he already is? He wants to work. He likes work.

FishOnABike · 06-09-2018 9:30am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

If the dole was abolished completely I would give the state a fortnight max before it looked like a mad max post apocalyptic wasteland...

Agree, it is less costly to the state to give someone enough to survive than it is to keep that same person in prison. If someone has nothing to lose, a guaranteed roof over their head and three meals a day can start to look attractive.

suicide_circus · 06-09-2018 9:33am

Lollipops23 wrote: »

My OH has recently had to sign on after being made redundant. He has no plan to stay sitting on it for long; he already has interviews lined up.

You think he should be made "exist" on food stamps for the foreseeable? Why? He's paid into the system since he was 16. Why would you want to make him suffer even more than he already is? He wants to work. He likes work.

as I said many a time, the fact your fella, having paid prsi for years, receives the same as someone who has never contributed is a national disgrace.

dxhound2005 · 06-09-2018 9:37am

Deleted User wrote: »

I feel like thread is mostly made up of people paid to push an agenda. Which political party though?

Which party do you think it is?

rob316 · 06-09-2018 9:42am

Lollipops23 wrote: »

My OH has recently had to sign on after being made redundant. He has no plan to stay sitting on it for long; he already has interviews lined up.

You think he should be made "exist" on food stamps for the foreseeable? Why? He's paid into the system since he was 16. Why would you want to make him suffer even more than he already is? He wants to work. He likes work.

Imo opinion his basic wages should be matched until he gains new employment.

Try_harder · 06-09-2018 9:52am

rob316 wrote: »

Imo opinion his basic wages should be matched until he gains new employment.

Indefinitely or for how long?

endacl · 06-09-2018 10:01am

suicide_circus wrote: »

you're asking me what the problem is with multiple generations of the same families being wards of the state?

Or Cash’s of the state. Or Conners of the state.

Kivaro · 06-09-2018 10:02am

Lollipops23 wrote: »

My OH has recently had to sign on after being made redundant. He has no plan to stay sitting on it for long; he already has interviews lined up.

You think he should be made "exist" on food stamps for the foreseeable? Why? He's paid into the system since he was 16. Why would you want to make him suffer even more than he already is? He wants to work. He likes work.

Not saying you, but a lot of "informed" people who spout the usual anti-American spiel on here do not know how the system works there.

In your husband's situation (and for all workers in the States), he would be entitled to unemployment compensation, which varies from State to State e.g. you could get a maximum of $420 per week in New York. And that unemployment can be extended beyond 6 months for various reasons.

This is what's great about the U.S. system.
Sit on your backside and expect the worker to support your lifestyle; then you get food stamps.
Unfortunate enough to get let go from work, then the worker (and your own payments into the system) will support you for a reasonable amount of time for you to get back on your feet again.

Unfortunately, the usual "brigade" on here just shouts down any suggestions for modifications to the lucrative welfare lifestyle in Ireland because:
a) They are abusing the system themselves.
b) They are supporters of political parties that push the welfare agenda.

In my own opinion, any savings that can be achieved by reducing the payments to professional social welfare recipients, should be put back into more deserving aspects of the welfare program e.g. increase home carers allowances, increase disability assistance spending, fund nationalised childcare for low-to-middle-tier working families etc. etc.

suicide_circus · 06-09-2018 10:04am

endacl wrote: »

Or Cash’s of the state. Or Conners of the state.

brilliant

06-09-2018 10:13am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Which party do you think it is?

Fine Gael? Was it them and Varadker pushing that welfare cheats us all thing?

dxhound2005 · 06-09-2018 10:19am

Deleted User wrote: »

Fine Gael? Was it them and Varadker pushing that welfare cheats us all thing?

I don't think it's them. They are the ones paying out 20 billion of taxpayers money a year in Social Welfare.

Abolish the Dole

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