Is this the end of Debenhams?

trixi001 · 10-09-2020 2:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

KPMG don’t have to do any more. The staff are getting statutory payment. That’s all they’re entitled to. The business is gone. No point in flogging a dead horse. They’re doing themselves more harm than good in continuing their militant stance and making themselves unemployable.

I doubt KPMG are allowed to do anymore

KPMG have a duty to pay the creditors as much as they possibly can - not even sure how they were allowed to offer €1m - perhaps under the argument, that paying it means they can get the stock and get on with the liquidation..thus making some money for the creditors.

At the end of the day, Debenhams is in liqudation - the liquidators can't just give assets away, the government can't just write off Debenhams debt (think of the precedent it would set...)

The only hope Debenhams have of getting the money is if Debenhams UK (as the parent company) pays up

RGARDINR · 10-09-2020 3:12pm

trixi001 wrote: »

I doubt KPMG are allowed to do anymore

KPMG have a duty to pay the creditors as much as they possibly can - not even sure how they were allowed to offer €1m - perhaps under the argument, that paying it means they can get the stock and get on with the liquidation..thus making some money for the creditors.

At the end of the day, Debenhams is in liqudation - the liquidators can't just give assets away, the government can't just write off Debenhams debt (think of the precedent it would set...)

The only hope Debenhams have of getting the money is if Debenhams UK (as the parent company) pays up

That's why I think the staff should of taken it. They got shafted big time but they won't get what they are looking for. I do have sympathy for them I really do but they should of took the money. Sold stock got 33% on that for staff they might of sold a nice amount in the 2 shops. Now they will most likely get nothing and something is better then nothing.

08-10-2020 6:27pm

RGARDINR wrote: »

That's why I think the staff should of taken it. They got shafted big time but they won't get what they are looking for. I do have sympathy for them I really do but they should of took the money. Sold stock got 33% on that for staff they might of sold a nice amount in the 2 shops. Now they will most likely get nothing and something is better then nothing.

I wonder what they’re living on as they cannot claim unemployment benefit/assistance while on strike.

C3PO · 11-10-2020 7:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder what they’re living on as they cannot claim unemployment benefit/assistance while on strike.

Are you sure that they have not all been laid off?

11-10-2020 8:03pm

C3PO wrote: »

Are you sure that they have not all been laid off?

Yes. All laid off with statutory redundancy. Some have found alternative employment, but some small number reckon that they’re entitled to more, so are on strike, which prohibits them claiming unemployment welfare payments.
Court case coming up in the week.

StackSteevens · 11-10-2020 8:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes. All laid off with statutory redundancy. Some have found alternative employment, but some small number reckon that they’re entitled to more, so are on strike, which prohibits them claiming unemployment welfare payments.
Court case coming up in the week.

For me the real tragedy is that, misled by cyncial fraudsters like Paul Murphy - someone who will never face life on the dole - the workers' actions have probably ensured that they'll never find employment in the retail sector for the rest of their working lives.

The second tragedy is that they don't seem smart enough to realise that they've being misled and used for political purposes.

11-10-2020 8:35pm

StackSteevens wrote: »

For me the real tragedy is that, misled by cyncial fraudsters like Paul Murphy - someone who will never face life on the dole - the workers' actions have probably ensured that they'll never find employment in the retail sector for the rest of their working lives.

The second tragedy is that they don't seem smart enough to realise that they've being misled and used for political purposes.

Murphy and his ilk have a lot to answer for. Reading his social media posts, you’d think that the strikers were left high and dry. Not so. They got their redundancy, wages owed and holiday pay.

As you rightly say, they’re only making themselves unemployable by their actions but are too stupid to see it. The stock they claim to be guarding is now out of date and worthless.

StackSteevens · 12-10-2020 10:52am

Deleted User wrote: »

Murphy and his ilk have a lot to answer for. Reading his social media posts, you’d think that the strikers were left high and dry. Not so. They got their redundancy, wages owed and holiday pay.

As you rightly say, they’re only making themselves unemployable by their actions but are too stupid to see it. The stock they claim to be guarding is now out of date and worthless.

Back in the day, Charlie Haughey had a way of handling difficult strikes - using taxpayers' money, naturally!

In the early 1980's a motor factory in Santry (CJH's constituency) was in the process of being closed down so there was a bitter strike and the workers occupied the factory (it's now the back of Santry Garda Station).

Haughey was under huge pressure from the workers and the Unions and he decided that the best solution would be to import all of the strikers into the civil service! Which he did - and they all lived happily ever after (and never worked again!)

I bet Meehawl wishes that he could pull the same stroke!

L1011 · 12-10-2020 10:55am

Its deeply questionable whether opening stores to sell off the stock would cover costs with reduced footfall these days. The stock wasn't selling to begin with - Debenhams had not kept up with fashion and that's a major reason they were in trouble to begin with - and is now even further out of date.

The comparisons that some of them are making to Clerys are not valid. Clerys was a sort-of viable business, wasn't stuck in a death spiral and the new owner had lots and lots of cash. They got money in the end due to that.

RGARDINR · 13-10-2020 9:35am

If they eventually get the stock out where exactly do they sell it? I mean say for example all kids clothes or all the toys are they just shipped off somewhere in a sold lot or do people get a chance to buy same?

13-10-2020 9:36am

RGARDINR wrote: »

If they eventually get the stock out where exactly do they sell it? I mean say for example all kids clothes or all the toys are they just shipped off somewhere in a sold lot or do people get a chance to buy same?

Online or TK MAXX

RGARDINR · 13-10-2020 10:01am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Online or TK MAXX

Just wouldn't be debenhams online as they don't own the stock now

13-10-2020 3:25pm

Liquidators granted an injunction against protesters.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/1013/1171266-debenhams-injunction/

StackSteevens · 13-10-2020 4:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Liquidators granted an injunction against protesters.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/1013/1171266-debenhams-injunction/

Trade union representative, Carole Bridgeman, who worked at the Mahon Point store in Cork for 15 years, denied the protests by workers at various stores were unlawful.

However, under questioning from Judge Leonie Reynolds, she accepted she had been involved in an unlawful occupation of a store on Patrick Street in Cork

Unsurprisingly, Ms. Bridgeman's statement was "...supported by Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald as well as TDs, Brid Smith and Mick Barry."

For any other wannabe Taoiseach, supporting lawbreakers would be a blot on their copybook, but for Mary-Lou and her supporters it's probably a badge of honour.

13-10-2020 10:36pm

Union not for turning apparently.

https://www.facebook.com/113857976970300/posts/188472379508859/?sfnsn=mo

14-10-2020 9:49am

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Union not for turning apparently.

https://www.facebook.com/113857976970300/posts/188472379508859/?sfnsn=mo

It will be interesting to see how many turn out to support them, seeing as so few actual workers have to date. Most have gained other employment since being made redundant.

They claim that they are entitled to the 4 weeks redundancy per year of employment as previously agreed. That would be ok if the business was still trading. It isn’t. If it was such a good deal, why didn’t they take it back then? The business has been struggling for years. It cannot have been a surprise to them.

StackSteevens · 14-10-2020 5:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If it was such a good deal, why didn’t they take it back then?

Probably because Debenhams Ireland were such a good employer. Decent local management, good commission rates and excellent working terms and conditions. Of course, as soon as the UK pulled the plug the whole narrative changed.

It's the liquidators that I feel sorry for - getting all of the abuse because they have been tasked with cleaning up someone else's mess, while having to ensure that they abide by the law. The costs of yesterday's court action can only come from the funds available - meaning there's less in the pot to pay the creditors.

yaknowski · 15-10-2020 12:21pm

debenhams.ie is still in operation. The Irish gov should threaten to block access to the domain unless they pay over anything that is due to the ex-staff.

C3PO · 15-10-2020 2:42pm

yaknowski wrote: »

debenhams.ie is still in operation. The Irish gov should threaten to block access to the domain unless they pay over anything that is due to the ex-staff.

But that's the point - there is nothing due to the ex-staff!

StackSteevens · 15-10-2020 6:11pm

yaknowski wrote: »

debenhams.ie is still in operation.

Many thanks for the heads up, yaknowall!

Some good bargains there - I've just bought some really good stuff - and free delivery too!

RGARDINR · 15-10-2020 11:27pm

Yeah good stuff on their website. I do miss the store. Wouldn't of minded going in if they had of been selling the stock in their stores to the public in a big liquidation sale.

01-12-2020 12:03pm

Debenhams gone in uk now too https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

RGARDINR · 01-12-2020 2:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Debenhams gone in uk now too https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

Yup say they will make it to January anyhow with winding the business down.

16-12-2020 8:49pm

Former workers still trying to flog a dead horse. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40191909.html

RGARDINR · 16-12-2020 9:49pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Former workers still trying to flog a dead horse. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40191909.html

Yeah madness was never going to end well for them sadly. I think I saw that 4 of the Irish debenhams stores that the stock has already been removed. Shame not sold to the public at the time, end up in tkmax etc. I have still bought online from them and latest was last night I know staff said not to do this but....... I really did like debenhams and staff who worked there were A+

CrabRevolution · 17-12-2020 1:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Former workers still trying to flog a dead horse. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40191909.html

Where is this notion coming from that if A makes a contract with B and B shirks on the deal, it's immediately incumbent on the state to pay A what B would have owed them?

The state had nothing to do with Debenhams and their employees, why should they for no reason start paying the former Debenhams workers above and beyond what other unemployed citizens are given?

rolling boh · 17-12-2020 2:02pm

Yeah I am sorry to see the shop gone and it's tough on the staff but unfortunately the same has happened to plenty of others and will happen again .Anything in retail is vulnerable these days so regrettably jobs are not fully secure nowadays .

17-12-2020 2:31pm

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Where is this notion coming from that if A makes a contract with B and B shirks on the deal, it's immediately incumbent on the state to pay A what B would have owed them?

The state had nothing to do with Debenhams and their employees, why should they for no reason start paying the former Debenhams workers above and beyond what other unemployed citizens are given?

The original deal was for an earlier round of redundancies. It was no longer on the table. So, B didn’t shirk on any deal. Just a few greedy people with a misplaced sense of entitlement.

GerardKeating · 17-12-2020 2:31pm

yaknowski wrote: »

debenhams.ie is still in operation.

Closing down sale now on.

Also mentioned on the site today

URGENT! This website will be temporarily closing at Midnight, use your gift cards today. .

17-12-2020 2:38pm

If the strike is an official protest, are the strikers getting unemployment benefit?

CrabRevolution · 17-12-2020 2:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The original deal was for an earlier round of redundancies. It was no longer on the table. So, B didn’t shirk on any deal. Just a few greedy people with a misplaced sense of entitlement.

Yeah my original post included "shirks/goes bankrupt etc." to cover all bases but I deleted it to simplify. Either way they feel that since they didn't get what they want off Debenhams, the government have a duty to give it to them.

13-01-2021 6:01pm

Still striking. Really greedy now. They want money, not the chance to upskill! Less than half of the former workers voted.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40206314.html

rolling boh · 13-01-2021 7:50pm

I think holding out for some miracle better deal was very short sighted have made a lot of themselves unemployable now .Unfortunately all retail jobs are not so secure now so people should do their best to up skill or else face a lot of financial uncertainty .

BlondeBomb · 14-01-2021 1:15am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If the strike is an official protest, are the strikers getting unemployment benefit?

I wondered about that too.

What stores still have stock - I know a few were emptied.

I’m not sure why the Government should be forced to pay them what they think they are owed. They got their statutory redundancy.

beachhead · 14-01-2021 1:22am

Debenhams online? Give yourself a break,Its an english company.It will turn into another Littlewoodsireland.ie where you order stuff and it never arrives and you tear your hair trying to get a refund

beachhead · 14-01-2021 1:24am

BlondeBomb wrote: »

I wondered about that too.

What stores still have stock - I know a few were emptied.

I’m not sure why the Government should be forced to pay them what they think they are owed. They got their statutory redundancy.

NO stat redund has been paid.Debs liquidator does not have enough ready cash for that

RGARDINR · 14-01-2021 2:21am

beachhead wrote: »

Debenhams online? Give yourself a break,Its an english company.It will turn into another Littlewoodsireland.ie where you order stuff and it never arrives and you tear your hair trying to get a refund

I actually found their online store very good. I ordered loads from them. Shame can't anymore.

14-01-2021 10:20am

beachhead wrote: »

NO stat redund has been paid.Debs liquidator does not have enough ready cash for that

The government will pay it. What they’re looking for is double statutory. Debenhams.ie online has been discontinued.

C3PO · 14-01-2021 8:20pm

beachhead wrote: »

NO stat redund has been paid.Debs liquidator does not have enough ready cash for that

If a company cannot afford the statutory redundancy then the State will pay it.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-01-2021 3:39am

I'd say most of these are long service employees - going back to the old Roches Stores days.

Like the Clerys employees too when that closed.

They thought that they would keep their jobs and generous T&Cs forever - totally ignoring the drastic changes affecting retail especially online shopping. Unfortunately that proved not to be the case.

Successful retail businesses operate on thin margins - they have to keep abreast of fashions etc. as one bad season can threaten the whole business. Much bigger and more successful retailers like M&S have found this difficult. The UK 'high street' is being destroyed by online shopping and high costs, it's no surprise that badly run retailers like Debenhams have experienced similar here.

The last time I bought something in Debenhams was 20 years ago, and that was only just worth what I paid even though it was "half price". Any time I was in there since, their offerings were pure rubbish. They're one of the many clothing retailers with a completely shyte offering for men. I know we buy less clothing than women, but you can't ignore the buying power of half of the population either and expect to survive.

They have called for the €3m to be given as top-up redundancy pay instead.

Ay, there's the rub, as Shakespeare wrote.

Doing this would favour the longest serving employees financially - and, not coincidentally, as the ones nearest retirement they'd have the least interest in any bullshít retraining fund.

I don't blame them for doing what they're doing but it's just not going to work.

“If the Government are willing to change the €3m training fund into cash then this could be finished."

I really don't know why I'm expected as a taxpayer to dip into my pocket to buy this crowd off, they are entitled to statutory redundancy and anything above that is a matter for their former employer.

F them to be honest, the government should withdraw the 3 million.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-01-2021 3:50am

beachhead wrote: »

NO stat redund has been paid.Debs liquidator does not have enough ready cash for that

Dept of Social Affairs will pay it if the employer doesn't. It's funded by employer PRSI. I would imagine the reason it hasn't been paid yet is, ironically, because of the strike. If you're on strike you're not redundant.

15-01-2021 10:44am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Dept of Social Affairs will pay it if the employer doesn't. It's funded by employer PRSI. I would imagine the reason it hasn't been paid yet is, ironically, because of the strike. If you're on strike you're not redundant.

Wait until Turas Nua get them on their books!

I wonder when redundancy will be paid to those not striking as it doesn’t appear that many actually are, especially seeing as only 40% voted with most of those rejecting the offer to fund upskilling?

RGARDINR · 25-01-2021 10:36am

I see boohoo have bought Debenhams online only for 55 million pound not their stores. Might get Debenhams.ie again so.

12-04-2021 4:52pm

Debenhams uk having a massive closing down sale. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/debenhams-closing-down-sale-attracts-5289015

RGARDINR · 12-04-2021 4:58pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Debenhams uk having a massive closing down sale. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/debenhams-closing-down-sale-attracts-5289015

Such a shame they didn't do that on the Irish stores.

12-04-2021 5:10pm

RGARDINR wrote: »

Such a shame they didn't do that on the Irish stores.

They didn’t get a chance due to Covid.

RGARDINR · 12-04-2021 5:25pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They didn’t get a chance due to Covid.

Actually 100% true. Days blending into one just forgot about covid there.

GT89 · 15-04-2021 10:38pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Debenhams uk having a massive closing down sale. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/debenhams-closing-down-sale-attracts-5289015

Imagine going back to work after lockdown in order to close down

23-04-2021 5:30pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-remove-workers-former-debenhams-store-dublin-5418011-Apr2021/

Don’t they get it? The jobs are gone. They got what they were entitled to. Their greedy antics will do them no favours, especially when/if they try to get a job.

RGARDINR · 23-04-2021 5:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-remove-workers-former-debenhams-store-dublin-5418011-Apr2021/

Don’t they get it? The jobs are gone. They got what they were entitled to. Their greedy antics will do them no favours, especially when/if they try to get a job.

Shame in the end they should of took the offer when it was offered to sell the stock and keep percentage of the sale. Might of brought up their redundancy payments from it then plus the million KPMG were offering at the time. I think lots of people would of shopped in debenhams once that was mentioned to help staff out. Would of bought a bit in it myself.

Is this the end of Debenhams?

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