Is this the end of Debenhams?

RGARDINR

So as the title says is this end of of Debenhams? Looking like going into administration come early next week according to news and papers. Just wondering will that be them gone or will they soldier on for a while? Have stuff ordered with them due next week so hopefully I get them. But it is a store I have always liked and hope it can carry on but highly doubtful. So what is your thoughts on it? Gone in the next few days or keep going on for a while or some miracle it survives and gets stronger? Or will this be one of the first massive store closures from Covid19? I know probably just last mail in it's coffin from it. Apologise if in wrong section as never posted much in boards before. Long time reader not poster.

jams100

RGARDINR wrote: »

So as the title says is this end of of Debenhams? Looking like going into administration come early next week according to news and papers. Just wondering will that be them gone or will they soldier on for a while? Have stuff ordered with them due next week so hopefully I get them. But it is a store I have always liked and hope it can carry on but highly doubtful. So what is your thoughts on it? Gone in the next few days or keep going on for a while or some miracle it survives and gets stronger? Or will this be one of the first massive store closures from Covid19? I know probably just last mail in it's coffin from it. Apologise if in wrong section as never posted much in boards before. Long time reader not poster.

The first of many I'd say, unfortunately

The_Honeybadger

RGARDINR wrote: »

So as the title says is this end of of Debenhams? Looking like going into administration come early next week according to news and papers. Just wondering will that be them gone or will they soldier on for a while? Have stuff ordered with them due next week so hopefully I get them. But it is a store I have always liked and hope it can carry on but highly doubtful. So what is your thoughts on it? Gone in the next few days or keep going on for a while or some miracle it survives and gets stronger? Or will this be one of the first massive store closures from Covid19? I know probably just last mail in it's coffin from it. Apologise if in wrong section as never posted much in boards before. Long time reader not poster.

I’d be surprised if you don’t get your order, and they will indeed try to soldier on, probably big job losses and further non performing store closures down the road and a move to a more online model. It depends on how much leeway their creditors give and how credible their plan is going forward.

Tough tough road ahead for the high street generally speaking.

callaway92

Have to say, I'd be a bit sickened if Debenhams goes too (although it's an almost certainty at this stage).

kravmaga

RGARDINR wrote: »

So as the title says is this end of of Debenhams? Looking like going into administration come early next week according to news and papers. Just wondering will that be them gone or will they soldier on for a while? Have stuff ordered with them due next week so hopefully I get them. But it is a store I have always liked and hope it can carry on but highly doubtful. So what is your thoughts on it? Gone in the next few days or keep going on for a while or some miracle it survives and gets stronger? Or will this be one of the first massive store closures from Covid19? I know probably just last mail in it's coffin from it. Apologise if in wrong section as never posted much in boards before. Long time reader not poster.

To answer your question ,Yes I think its the end, cant see them re-opening.

Since they bought over the Roches Stores group in 2005 they never had the same foot fall or trade sales compared to Roches Stores. customer service was poor and the shop was in dis-array in its layout, my Mrs always preferred to shop in Marks and Sparks on Henry Street over Debenhams on Henry Street. The clothes were outdated and they were old fashioned.

They never converted the Roches Stores customer over and they lost their mark on Henry Street with such a large building with little or no customers.

The mens section in the basement was sh1te , rails and rails of clothes shipped in from India or Bangladesh.

Its been a long time coming, they have been in trouble for a few years, cash flow is poor and they had to many concession units inside the store.

Very good article here by The Guardian UK last year about the group.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/13/debenhams-problem-not-just-indebted-dull-too

_Brian

If the market is profitable either they or someone else will set up and fill the need.

The_Honeybadger

_Brian wrote: »

If the market is profitable either they or someone else will set up and fill the need.

This, they still have a lot of revenue, creditors are well aware that if they close the door nobody gets their money back. Their best hope is probably a buy out / rescue along with a settlement with creditors. Haven't been following it that closely but closing up is absolutely the last resort in these cases, only when it’s clear that there is no hope of ever repaying the debt or continuing as a going concern. They are not at that stage (yet).

Charles Babbage

Bring back Roches Stores.

Wanderer2010

If Debenhams is still online, wont there still be a need for staff in Ireland to process orders and collect them from the warehouse? I appreciate this wont help most of the people working in the stores.

RGARDINR

Be a huge empty space on Henry street that's for sure if it goes. Will look really bad. Yeah maybe it might move to online only. I say it is doing well this way as one of the few places at moment doing online shopping but saying that order in last week and just says sent to supplier even tho says on email due this Friday so maybe they aren't sending things through as they are afraid Debenhams won't pay up?

uck51js9zml2yt

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

If Debenhams is still online, wont there still be a need for staff in Ireland to process orders and collect them from the warehouse? I appreciate this wont help most of the people working in the stores.

everything ships from the UK.

Feets

It has to be the end of them, they were in trouble before the pandemic, I heard New Look and Topshop will be very very lucky to get through this also.

punisher5112

Pity found their mend clothing some of the best out their for the money and proper sizes too.

Feel terribly bad for staff....

RGARDINR

Zara not in Debenhams as well on Henry st attached into the store? Will that go? Also is Debenhams Ireland a separate entity to Debenhams UK? If so does it be in profit in Ireland and not in the UK?

The_Honeybadger

RGARDINR wrote: »

Zara not in Debenhams as well on Henry st attached into the store? Will that go? Also is Debenhams Ireland a separate entity to Debenhams UK? If so does it be in profit in Ireland and not in the UK?

There is no suggestion that the Irish stores will close (unless already marked for closure).

Having looked it up the UK situation is a voluntary administration to give them time to negotiate with creditors and agree a funding package between the owners. They are not closing the business, although they are / were rolling out a targeted store closure programme in the UK anyway, planning to keep just over 100 stores. They seem to be fairly sure they’ll get a deal done to keep going.

RGARDINR

Yeah was this they might keep going for how long tho is another thing but hopefully they can pull through. I like the shop and I wouldn't want people to lose their jobs. Just as their huge stores over here would like really bad with them closed and boarded up. Can't imagine Henry street shop turning into another huge shop, would have to be sub let into minor shops for the size of it and let's be honest I think there are enough Penny's in town.

The_Honeybadger

RGARDINR wrote: »

Yeah was this they might keep going for how long tho is another thing but hopefully they can pull through. I like the shop and I wouldn't want people to lose their jobs. Just as their huge stores over here would like really bad with them closed and boarded up. Can't imagine Henry street shop turning into another huge shop, would have to be sub let into minor shops for the size of it and let's be honest I think there are enough Penny's in town.

With Covid19 now anything is possible, any business that was struggling already could find that this is that straw that breaks the camels back.

They did an interesting Panorama programme on the BBC a few months ago that looked at the town centres in the UK where a lot of Debenhams and other retailers are already closed leaving huge empty buildings everywhere. In some cases left derelict, some were being turned in to hotels and apartments or leisure facilities etc. The government there are spending billions to try to tackle it and the innovation shown by some of the local authorities was really impressive while others were shrugging their shoulders and looking the other way.

carrickbawn

I put an order in on the 2nd and it was due for delivery today.
No dispatch email and no delivery.
When I track the order they are telling me how to return and get refund.
Really weird. Can’t even send a message to them. Even if I can’t get my order I want my money back.

RGARDINR

Well that's Debenhams Ireland gone. Poor staff. I still had some orders to come from them. Wonder will they be done and still sent as I think someone said that the stuff comes from the UK or you reckon that's tough luck there?

stargazer 68

RGARDINR wrote: »

Well that's Debenhams Ireland gone. Poor staff. I still had some orders to come from them. Wonder will they be done and still sent as I think someone said that the stuff comes from the UK or you reckon that's tough luck there?

Website says there online is still operating but it may not have been updated yet! I have an order with them too - was getting rid of vouchers I had

Foweva Awone

carrickbawn wrote: »

I put an order in on the 2nd and it was due for delivery today.
No dispatch email and no delivery.
When I track the order they are telling me how to return and get refund.
Really weird. Can’t even send a message to them. Even if I can’t get my order I want my money back.

I placed an order on the 3rd. One item arrived the other day, and I got an email on the 6th saying the rest had been dispatched. So fingers crossed it'll arrive!

RGARDINR

Dovies wrote: »

Website says there online is still operating but it may not have been updated yet! I have an order with them too - was getting rid of vouchers I had

That's what I'm thinking. Mine had saying order to supplier but was like that for a week now so doesn't even look like it was processed. Even tho money taken out. Hopefully we all get them be more if the UK Debenhams goes but may not for a while longer and hopefully we get our stuff posted out.

RGARDINR

carrickbawn wrote: »

I put an order in on the 2nd and it was due for delivery today.
No dispatch email and no delivery.
When I track the order they are telling me how to return and get refund.
Really weird. Can’t even send a message to them. Even if I can’t get my order I want my money back.

Some things were sent out of my orders got 3 emails two sent on Tuesday saying dispatched so hopefully get those 2. Other one due to arrive yesterday but never got it as usually get nightline delivery email saying on way so not sure there as got Debenhams dispatch email for that one last week. Had 2 sets of clothes to come still and only ordered a toy last night for kids so not sure on all of this stuff.

rolling boh

Sorry to see Debenhams pull out thought they stocked decent enough clothes maby for slightly older customers generally did not see many younger people in there .Most of the shops in blanchardstown seem to be geared to young customers so Debenhams was good for us slightly older buyers bought a couple of suits there and they worked out well .

The_Honeybadger

They were saying Ireland was unaffected a few day’s ago and now this. I wonder where the liquidators will dispose of the stock

RGARDINR

Probably send it back to the UK stores or up to the newry and Belfast stores. I presume they are staying open and just stores down south?

SozBbz

rolling boh wrote: »

Sorry to see Debenhams pull out thought they stocked decent enough clothes maby for slightly older customers generally did not see many younger people in there .Most of the shops in blanchardstown seem to be geared to young customers so Debenhams was good for us slightly older buyers bought a couple of suits there and they worked out well .

Sad but not really surprised at all - they've had problems for years with debt and tenancy agreements etc.

Plus I'm not sure if they knew who their customer was. I think you're right that in reality they had a lot of older customers but they seems to try to aim at the younger market too especially with their concessions in the beauty hall etc. They were neither high end nor low end. They didnt really have much of an identity.

RGARDINR

SozBbz wrote: »

Sad but not really surprised at all - they've had problems for years with debt and tenancy agreements etc.

Plus I'm not sure if they knew who their customer was. I think you're right that in reality they had a lot of older customers but they seems to try to aim at the younger market too especially with their concessions in the beauty hall etc. They were neither high end nor low end. They didnt really have much of an identity.

Just reading on rte that some Irish stores might have a future so maybe not all of them will close and people still can buy online from them. Be nice if one or two stayed open in the republic.

uck51js9zml2yt

Info here

https://m.independent.ie/business/jobs/debenhams-heading-into-liquidation-with-11-irish-stores-to-remain-closed-after-covid-19-lockdown-39116499.html

evosteo

Feel so sorry for the staff. Similar to clerys some would have worked there 20+ years if not alot longer.

Pretty much told on an email this morning that the the shutters were staying down, thanks for your service and best of luck evening after saying thta the UK operations were going into administration and the irish arm was unaffected.

I knew myself they were in trouble but I feel they have used this crisis as a perfect oportunity to burn their staff too who will now only be entitled to statutory rednudancy.

Strange that they have anounced the store closures but in another breath mention they are still trading online. debenhams.ie????

still in existance/gone out of existance?

Strange one

boardise

punisher5112 wrote: »

Pity found their mend clothing some of the best out their for the money and proper sizes too.

Feel terribly bad for staff....

Endorse that .
Sad to see them go and of course for the staff who'll find it hard to find similar jobs in a contracting sector.Their stuff seemed to suit me well and they had great bargain racks. Such is life -nothing lasts forever.

uck51js9zml2yt

evosteo wrote: »

Feel so sorry for the staff. Similar to clerys some would have worked there 20+ years if not alot longer.

Pretty much told on an email this morning that the the shutters were staying down, thanks for your service and best of luck evening after saying thta the UK operations were going into administration and the irish arm was unaffected.

I knew myself they were in trouble but I feel they have used this crisis as a perfect oportunity to burn their staff too who will now only be entitled to statutory rednudancy.

Strange that they have anounced the store closures but in another breath mention they are still trading online. debenhams.ie????

still in existance/gone out of existance?

Strange one

Everything will be posted from their warehouse

Gal2glam

evosteo wrote: »

Feel so sorry for the staff. Similar to clerys some would have worked there 20+ years if not alot longer.

Pretty much told on an email this morning that the the shutters were staying down, thanks for your service and best of luck evening after saying thta the UK operations were going into administration and the irish arm was unaffected.

I knew myself they were in trouble but I feel they have used this crisis as a perfect oportunity to burn their staff too who will now only be entitled to statutory rednudancy.

Strange that they have anounced the store closures but in another breath mention they are still trading online. debenhams.ie????

still in existance/gone out of existance?

Strange one

The liquidator will still have to sell as much of the stock off as possible so it makes sense to leave people shop online if they want. Especially because they won’t be able to have an in store liquidation sale for the foreseeable future.

RGARDINR

Is the stock still in their stores in Ireland?

newuser99999

RGARDINR wrote: »

Is the stock still in their stores in Ireland?

The liquidator most likely has it in off site storage.

GerardKeating

RGARDINR wrote: »

Is the stock still in their stores in Ireland?

It was in Galway the other day.

RGARDINR

GerardKeating wrote: »

It was in Galway the other day.

Hopefully it works out for staff now with the possible agreement. There best off accepting it as Debenhams UK could be gone in the next few weeks.

ongarboy

According to the news, most workers are not accepting the additional offer being proposed as it just means a paltry few hundred Euro for the majority.

ongarboy

ongarboy wrote: »

According to the news, most workers are not accepting the additional offer being proposed as it just means a paltry few hundred Euro for the majority.

Can they get the dole while on strike? They are foolish to reject the offer as Debenhams seem st be in trouble in the Uk. They will get their statutory payment anyway.

I see they’ve escalated their protest. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40044932.html
Do they think that they’ll draw blood from a stone? They’ll still get their statutory payment. The offer on the table would have given some over €1,000 extra. Yet, they’re hell bent on making themselves unemployable by their actions.

ziedth

Deleted User wrote: »

I see they’ve escalated their protest. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40044932.html
Do they think that they’ll draw blood from a stone? They’ll still get their statutory payment. The offer on the table would have given some over €1,000 extra. Yet, they’re hell bent on making themselves unemployable by their actions.

To be fair I read that quite a few of the staff have service carried over from Roaches Stores which gives them between 20-30 years service...... if they are looking for 4 weeks per year (Again not a crazy amount) That is allot more than €1k extra....... Likes of Store Managers you could be talking €20k+ in the difference

punisher5112

1 days wages to most is an absolute insult.

Its disgraceful what is allowed and you will find KPMG aren't doing this for buttons either.

They'll be getting nice payout from it.

ziedth

ziedth wrote: »

To be fair I read that quite a few of the staff have service carried over from Roaches Stores which gives them between 20-30 years service...... if they are looking for 4 weeks per year (Again not a crazy amount) That is allot more than €1k extra....... Likes of Store Managers you could be talking €20k+ in the difference

Their Roche’s Stores time doesn’t enter into the equation. Different employers. They’re already getting the statutory 2 weeks. The figure of €1k extra was just a simple division. €1,000,000/1,000.
Debenhams in the Uk are in trouble too. It might be one days wages for a few, but not for most.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Their Roche’s Stores time doesn’t enter into the equation. Different employers. They’re already getting the statutory 2 weeks. The figure of €1k extra was just a simple division. €1,000,000/1,000.
Debenhams in the Uk are in trouble too. It might be one days wages for a few, but not for most.

The Roches time does count - TUPE.

Or else a company trying to slash a redundancy bill would just "sell" to a new holdingco owned by a different part of its group.


The stock that they think has value to hold as ransom against the liquidators is now effectively valueless - its Spring/Summer 2020 + whatever old stuff was in the stores. Its fit to be sold to TK Maxx at maybe 5% of ticket price if even; so take whatever millions they claim there is in stock and divide it by 20.

RGARDINR

L1011 wrote: »

The Roches time does count - TUPE.

Or else a company trying to slash a redundancy bill would just "sell" to a new holdingco owned by a different part of its group.


The stock that they think has value to hold as ransom against the liquidators is now effectively valueless - its Spring/Summer 2020 + whatever old stuff was in the stores. Its fit to be sold to TK Maxx at maybe 5% of ticket price if even; so take whatever millions they claim there is in stock and divide it by 20.

I understand there frustration but they should of taken the offer. Debenhams UK might be gone come the end of this month, even a few hundred extra is better then zero at the end of the day. Was up in the Newry store about 2 wks ago. They definitely could do with some stock up there lots or space between racks up there and more or less zero toys.

L1011

I think that was the best offer they're going to get; they're on a hiding to nothing now that the stock is dated and worthless. Mandate are very good at valiant strikes that get nowhere.

Debenhams UK are out of the picture now though; its all KPMG. That applies both to the offer and to the stock - Debenhams UK don't own it.

RGARDINR

Sadly I think you ate right they should of taken the money. They might of sold a lot of stock and made another million or 2 for the staff to divide up.

Trouble is that the workers are listening to eegits like Paul Murphy who’s telling them that the liquidators aren’t giving them what they’re entitled to. They are only entitled to 2 weeks per year’s service, once they’ve been employed 2 years. That’s what they’re getting. There are others, suppliers, etc., who have a bigger claim on any monies available. Debenhams have been in trouble for decades. The sinking ship should have been abandoned by the workers before now.

RGARDINR

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Trouble is that the workers are listening to eegits like Paul Murphy who’s telling them that the liquidators aren’t giving them what they’re entitled to. They are only entitled to 2 weeks per year’s service, once they’ve been employed 2 years. That’s what they’re getting. There are others, suppliers, etc., who have a bigger claim on any monies available. Debenhams have been in trouble for decades. The sinking ship should have been abandoned by the workers before now.

I do feel for staff but they should of jumped on this offer but hopefully we're wrong and KPMG increase the million to even 2 or 3 million.

RGARDINR

RGARDINR wrote: »

I do feel for staff but they should of jumped on this offer but hopefully we're wrong and KPMG increase the million to even 2 or 3 million.

KPMG don’t have to do any more. The staff are getting statutory payment. That’s all they’re entitled to. The business is gone. No point in flogging a dead horse. They’re doing themselves more harm than good in continuing their militant stance and making themselves unemployable.

RGARDINR

[Deleted User] wrote: »

KPMG don’t have to do any more. The staff are getting statutory payment. That’s all they’re entitled to. The business is gone. No point in flogging a dead horse. They’re doing themselves more harm than good in continuing their militant stance and making themselves unemployable.

Your probably right but will see. I wonder what 2 stores they would of opened to sell the merchandise. Henry St and one in Cork maybe or the Blanchardstown one as footfall in town is lower so shopping centre might have been better. Say would of been a good sale as well in the store if they had of opened the 2 stores up to sell the merchandise.