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But who will look after you when you're old?

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    #122
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,040 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118535050#Comment_118535050

    Ermm, no. I'm suggesting that some of them had children, who refused to help their parents in their old age. I don't know they all did, but in Texas and that age group, I'd suspect the likelihood was very high that most of them had children and grandchildren.

    In fact, there's a quote from one of the residents photographed hip-deep in water that might help you:

    As the hours wore on, workers tried to placate the residents with Gatorade and cookies.

    One asked repeatedly for her son.

    Seems like there were some children around.

    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-weather/hurricaneharvey/article/seniors-flood-water-Hurricane-Harvey-nursing-home-12013358.php



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    #123
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,994 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118337480#Comment_118337480

    Maybe those without kids will die younger anyway, so you dont have to worry about getting old.

    https://www.mpg.de/14064449/children-influence-parents-life-expectancy




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    #124
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Just seeing the title has me fuming. Never heard of it. Maybe some people could do that but sounds like mostly bullshit

    Afaik people dont go around having kids so that they've someone to look after them when they're older. Rarely people would actually do that with that as the main reason for having children.... however to expand and have a close family that look after each other...then nothing wrong with that. You can have that by adding to your family by having children or adopting, or just close friends etc.

    In cases where people look after their own parents when they get old .it's cause they care about them and want them to have a nice comfortable end knowing they were loved.

    Hate this internet shyte and people questioning every single thing in life...just natural things. Some kids don't look after their parents, some do. Doubt there's this big conspiracy where people are having children thinking of 30/40/50 years down the line and even if they were...as long as they are good/close family then that's a good thing? No?



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    #125
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,040 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557750#Comment_118557750

    It's just another justification for having children and going through the misery that yields. Plus another way to ignore the environmental impact of having children - "but, who will take care of you when you're old?"


    You never hearing it doesn't mean anything, really.



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    #126
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,095 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536056#Comment_118536056

    Ah, so some did have kids and some didn't but all stayed in the home. So it was a meaningless point, got it.



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    #127
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,095 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557907#Comment_118557907

    "going through the misery that yields"

    Do you have them yourself or is this just another observation?

    Everyone who actually has kids can comment on both sides of being childfree and not, those on the childfree side cant really comment on what its like to have kids any more than I can comment on what its like to be an astronaut. To me it seems very hard and dangerous, dare I say a miserable existence?

    Post edited by GreeBo on


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    #128
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,544 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559149#Comment_118559149

    It's not quite that black and white.

    Someone who had a kid in their 20s has absolutely no idea what it's like to be childfree in their 30s and beyond.

    Childfree people who have played a large part in the raising of children (very young siblings, being a primary school teacher etc) have a pretty fair idea what it's like to be responsible for kids.

    I've a child free friend who's 25 and she has 4 year old and 6 year old siblings who she takes care of a hell of a lot - completely turned her off the idea of having kids of her own.

    Your last comment perplexes me a bit, being child free is the default existence. You go from that to choosing to have children. If you think that's a 'miserable existence' (was your life miserable before you had kids?) then you might want to rethink your existence as your kids may go off and do their own thing when they're older.



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    #129
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559149#Comment_118559149

    To me it seems very hard and dangerous, dare I say a miserable existence?

    I don't think astronauts have it that bad



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    #130
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557711#Comment_118557711

    What's your point?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #131
    Faith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560153#Comment_118560153

    That people with children are even more determined to contribute to climate change than we previously thought? 😂

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/24/health/climate-change-elderly.html




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    #132
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,040 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559149#Comment_118559149

    As I stated earlier, and you just confirmed, you can never question the decision to become a parent. You've said so yourself - only the childed can comment on children. Well, guess what. No. The decision needs to be questioned; justification would be nice, too, but there really isn't one. Every justification you hear from a breeder starts with, "I want<....>." It's all about the parent's wants, and never about what the child might want.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559143#Comment_118559143


    Sigh... Reiterating: children won't take care of you when you're old. There's no guarantee. Having them because you think they might, is pretty damn selfish.

    Be nice to them, though, they're likely to choose your nursing home. The one inhe picture looks particularly bad.



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    #133
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,095 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559960#Comment_118559960

    Minding children bares little relationship to minding your own children to be honest, they are very, very different things.

    I think you have misread or misinterpreted my post, it was the other poster who claimed "going through the misery that yields" in regards to having kids. My point was that training to be an astronaut might, from the outside seem like a miserable existence, constant training, study, increased chances of dying, etc, etc. yet for those that choose that path, the upside (being in space!) outweighs any of the perceived downsides, a bit like some people feel about having children.



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    #134
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,095 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560523#Comment_118560523

    No one is saying you cant question it, what you cant do is give an objective opinion from a position of ignorance. If you have not had kids you cant possibly comment on the process of having and raising kids. Only "the childed" can comment on what its like to be one of "the childed". Perhaps you also think you know what its like to be subjected to racism or internment, having read about them?


    If you argument now depends on the parents of an unborn, pre-conceived child knowing what that child might want then I'd suggest we are going down a road that is with logic.


    To reiterate, all children might not take care of you when you're old. There's no guarantee either way. Other than the person who started the thread, I dont believe anyone has stated that this is the reason they choose to have kids?


    Meanwhile I'm sure your solicitor will pick out a lovely nursing home for you...



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    #135
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Does we really need stupid new words like "childed"?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #136
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,040 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560592#Comment_118560592

    Your typo (you probably mean 'withOUT' logic), actually works well. If you can't anticipate what the child would want, should you breed? And as to opinions, a parent can't make an objective opinion about children. Subjective at best. Maybe you meant 'better informed' there?

    As for children taking care of you when you're old, glad to learn that we agree there's no guarantee they will. As for each of our decisions on how to manage our care when we're incapable, best to take care of that when you're capable.



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    #137
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,659 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118332416#Comment_118332416

    There's very few of these places in the country. Which is why most people stay at home until some crisis forces them out of it.



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    #138
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560757#Comment_118560757

    It's right up there with "breeder" in terms of stupidity and there's been mod warnings in the past on the use of such terms as they are deliberately provocative.



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    #139
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566636#Comment_118566636

    It comes across as being extremely petty and inflammatory IMO. I appreciate that it's "Childree by choice" and I'm more childfree by circumstance but it's not conducive to anything other than an echo chamber.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #140
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566686#Comment_118566686

    Agreed.

    Both sides of the discussion have valid viewpoints and experiences.

    Using terms such as the few highlighted are only done in an effort to belittle the experiences of others, regardless of their situation or position on the topic.



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    #141
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,659 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The days when many Irish generations are able (or want) to live under the same roof has to be fading. Houses are smaller, families are smaller. I think its more common in other countries and cultures, and perhaps it will get a new lease of life here due to that. But it was more common when people died younger. These days people live longer often with very much reduced independence. often beyond the capabilities of people working to manage at home. Financially people can't afford to give up working either. Though obviously if someone has a good experience of it, they might hope the same will happen to them. Equally people who've not had a good experience, will think its not a viable option.

    So this idea that people have kids to look after them, in modern Ireland, seems very over stated. Considering the multitude of stories of people having no help from siblings, with older relatives or parents.

    People disappear when they asked to help. Only to reappear on reading the will.



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    #142
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,894 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Mod Note
    Do not use derogatory phrases such as "childed" or "breeders". Aside from the obvious fact that such words add nothing to the discussion, we are all human beings, therefore we are essentially all "breeders".
    A discussion is welcome, but keep it civil and respect that there are very polar views on this topic.
    This is the last warning I will post on this - next step is deleting posts and issuing warnings/bans.
    S


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    #143
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566799#Comment_118566799

    Personally, I feel like the choice of whether or not to have a child has been taken out of my hands. I had to emigrate to find work and now cannot afford to rent or own my own place when growing up, my father's wage supported a family of six. I recall several times growing up where older people would pass judgement on people for having children. They'd be condemning them as feckless parasites. Now, the opposite is happening because a lot of people are seeing that they can't afford it or just don't want to do it at all.

    I find the thought of getting old chilling. Heart conditions, dementia, physical and mental deterioration, whatever. The idea of creating a new human life just to look after me is just unbelievably selfish and irresponsible. I'm surprised it isn't called out more.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #144
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,659 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Its not called out more because very few think like that. (Other than threads like these)

    Multigenerational families, the extended family is the most common type of family in the world. It's just how people live. It's not a care plan.



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    #145
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566893#Comment_118566893

    Would it be a good idea to add this to the forum charter as its not a rare issue on this particular forum.



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    #146
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,994 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567528#Comment_118567528

    I have to agree.

    It's as if those who advocate a childfree lifestyle are at pains to point out that there is no guarantee that your kids will look after you as if its some kind of solace to their own choice to be childfree.

    Ignoring of course how families the world over live and have lived for thousands of years..

    I guess it's like this, being childless IS a guarantee that your kids won't be there to help you when you get older. Having kids is an each-way bet :)



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    #147
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598179#Comment_118598179

    Having kids so that you have an each way bet is selfish.

    No-one is at pains, to point out the facts.

    And fyi, not having kids when you don't want them, is its own solace😉



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    #148
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,994 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598366#Comment_118598366

    These are not facts in that statement, only opinions.

    I dont know any parent whose prime motivation to have children was to be looked after in old age.



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    #149
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,040 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604351#Comment_118604351

    Most are motivated by their own wants. I want a child because I will do a better job than my parents... We have a boy so we want a girl because... The 'take care of you when your old' lie is just another bit of excuse making for filling a want by the parents. Never the wants of the child. Never.



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    #150
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604351#Comment_118604351

    I'm sure it wasn't the prime motivation.

    you think that pointing out kids are not guaranteed to look after you is an opinion. It's not it's a fact.

    And it's not something I would be pointing out to any parents, except on the occasions where that parent asks me 'who will look after you when you're old'



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    #151
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,745 ✭✭✭Deeec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604359#Comment_118604359

    Wrong. The urge to have children is the most natural thing - its nature. Nobody has children for selfish reasons. When I was pregnant I didnt mind whether I had a boy or a girl - usually people dont have a preference. Parents make so much sacrifices ( time, career, financial etc )for their children - you are saying that parents are selfish and never think of the needs of their child - Wow. On the contrary some of the justifications for people choosing not to have children are so daft - climate change, economy etc.

    I respect peoples choice not to have children but I do feel they are missing out on so much - the joy and love family life brings is so special - there is nothing better in life than the love of family.



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