But who will look after you when you're old?

Sure enough, no evacuation by those children who'll take care of you when your old, of elderlies in the path of Hurricane Ian in advance of the hurricane, here's a recent photo

Must've been some scene in the elderly storage facility.

How exactly do you figure out if you can handle it in advance?

If everyone avoided it until they were sure (and the only logical way to be sure is to actually have kids) then that will be more of an issue for humans than any climate change.

I didn't say that I knew they wouldn't be, merely that you cant state that you would find your own children annoying, you don't have any.

I didnt know that my own wouldn't be annoying, but I took the big brave step of assuming that since the vast, vast majority of people have children and have done so literally since time began, it was probably going to work out ok for us.

Your "simples" explanation is too simplistic I'm afraid. Fewer people doesn't necessarily mean less climate change, unless you take the incredibly simplistic and naïve approach that everyone equally produces climate change?

You cant accurately analyze something that you have no experience of. If you are going to say that you have family members with kids or friends with kids then I'm going to inform you that someone else's kids are nothing like your own kids. The reasons you mention for potentially not having kids seem little to do with "handling" them and more to do with being able to afford them.

i know your post in months old but your attitude is great, your lifestyle and your friends sound spot on too!

Missed my point.

The poster alluded to the fact that people who don't have a steady job, home or income should not be having kids until all those boxes are ticked so to speak.

A serious question thus arises, How many young people in their 30's or younger own their own home, how many have a job for life, how many of them have substantial savings that can sort them out for 4-6 months?

I'd say if you looked at each criteria, the vast majority of people would fail that test.

Individually, of course, people can decide for themselves.

That isn't knowledge, it's an anecdote.

Why do people who want to be childfree (and fair play on your decision) need to punch down and use people with children as some mirror to base their decision of?

I know many parents who are fit, happy, and healthy while people without kids spend a lot of their time in pubs drinking themselves away to oblivion.

I was responding to someone posing 'how do you know?' type questions. The reality of the situation is 'I don't' - I just have to base my own personal decision on my experiences and observations of those around me who do have children.

Having kids takes a toll on you physically. From lack of sleep in the early years, worrying and anxiety about providing for them, the physical toll on the body during pregnancy/child bearing, not to mention things like postnatal depression and how it can result in partners growing distant from each other - it's all fairly factual and I don't think it's punching down that I happen to have noticed a lot of the above in my peer group who have had kids.

I am not saying that is every case, it would be ridiculous to say it is. There are plenty of people living healthy lives out there with kids. It's just another risk I'm not willing to take by having them.

"...punch down"

Nonsense. It's the childed who do all the punching, and manipulate government into supporting their optional lifestyle choices.

"...It's like saying marriage is a crapshoot, so whatever you do, don't get married... EVER!"

There are legal escapes from marriage, it's called divorce. You typically can't retract the choice to have children, beyond giving them up for adoption, but the child exists at that point. At best you can foist the burden off onto others.

Tell us more about this 'manipulation' and support for optional 'lifestyle' choices, and try and say it without punching down.

If you know the history of Eugnics you will know that there have historically been calls for the 'unwashed' and poor to be sterilised in order to prevent them from having kids.

As I mentioned already, most people would fail the 'are you rich enough' to have kids' criteria set out by that poster. Yes, it was hyperbolic, but it had a stench of eugenics of it.

I wanted a family, as did my partner.

You don't need an Excel sheet for this type of question, most of the time. Often people will know one way or the other. Good luck to people either way.

It's absolutely okay to analyse your choices before making them.

If I had the urge to make any big decision I'd first be asking myself 'why?' just to make sure it's the right decision and I'm not walking into a mistake.

Be that buying a house in a certain area, taking a job, having kids etc.

Deciding to have kids is just another big decision like any other one.

What a strange bit of logic. What has us all being here got to do with people having negative experiences during parenthood?

Is it that because we are all here, parenthood can't be bad by virtue of it 'always being that way'?

I suppose what childless by choice people are doing is questioning a status quo. You don't have to have children, which is something society as a whole has somewhat brainwashed everyone into thinking is 'the correct way'.

They say you die twice - firstly when you kick the bucket and lastly when you're no longer remembered by any living soul.

So forget about who's going to wipe your arse and think of your legacy, children and grandchildren etc. :)

Of course you can try to be famous by other means but that by definition is limited in itself.

Pretty much this 100%. Do something with your life that people will remember for good reasons.

For me at least, its a pretty good indication that having significantly negative experiences is effectively an outlier.

Otherwise the vast majority of people wouldn't be having kids.

I don't agree that having kids is "the correct way", but its certainly the default way for things that are alive, its pretty much the meaning of and essential to life.

Not having them doesn't make you wrong, but its certainly unusual.

I don't think anyone having "accidents" and then going through with them can genuinely, innately not have wanted kids. They simply wouldn't have ended up in that situation in the first place otherwise. I don't want children and have never had so much as a pregnancy scare because I am *militant* about contraception. I simply can't conceive (no pun intended) of any scenario where a) I could end up pregnant or b) I'd continue the pregnancy if I did.

Also, that "die twice" stuff is specious nonsense. What difference does it make that nobody remembers you any longer? You'll be dead, you won't know.

Likewise for not having children though. The only way to know not having one was a mistake is to have one.

There was something on Newstalk the other day about 1 in 10 "at some stage" regretting having kids. So not necessarily regretting over all, but acknowledging that at some point they regretted it. Which, to be honest I think is true enough of so many things as to be meaningless.

The point that I tried to emphasize was that of those 1 in 10, they don't necessarily regret having kids now. Just that at some point in the past they did.

Not having kids is also an irreversible choice too yunno!

I would much rather that more people had fewer children than some people go without due to some sort of misguided save the planet ideology.

Who looks after old people without kids now…?

lots of old people rely on…

good neighbors, friends, homecare etc… unfortunately the availability of homecare is a big issue. The companies pay peanuts, the population is ageing and spiralling upwards in number…

that said technology is helping, like when I’m a senior individual I’m going to be able to order shopping online and deal with varying elements of engagement with healthcare, businesses etc. with an iPad. Which there is still a generation and a half that find that alien / impossible to manage.

I'm sure closer to 10 out of 10 people at some stage regretted having kids, the number who ultimately regret would be far lower though, imo.