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But who will look after you when you're old?

1235

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,330 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    A Strawman? Says the person who harps on about a guarantee regarding kids?

    It's a person, not a Toyota Corolla.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Sure enough, no evacuation by those children who'll take care of you when your old, of elderlies in the path of Hurricane Ian in advance of the hurricane, here's a recent photo


    Must've been some scene in the elderly storage facility.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    I thought about it sometimes, but I like to live in the moment as much as possible. Anxiety living in the past, fear living in the present and all that jazz.

    My plan is to be as self sufficient as I can, eat healthily, zero alcohol and street drugs etc

    I've a few good friends from my teens none of us married kid's grown up and we've always been supportive both men and women, we're slightly bohemian and we have helped each other through rough times. All different personalities, grumpy, funny, awkward, oppositional to world views, but supportive. A good mix.

    We are like a group of misfits who go our own ways but we'd be there in a jiffy. Like a movie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Deabhdh


    Jamieson and xanax.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,313 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    How do you know you would find your own children incredibly annoying and that your life would be better without them?


    With regards to climate change (how this thread ended up here is beyond me btw!)

    It seems more logical that the average person would have fewer children rather than some people have none and some have many. If no one has kids then there isn't much point in trying to save the planet...who are you saving it for?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,313 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    How exactly do you figure out if you can handle it in advance?

    If everyone avoided it until they were sure (and the only logical way to be sure is to actually have kids) then that will be more of an issue for humans than any climate change.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    How do you know they wouldn't be annoying?

    As regards climate change, this one is obvious. People cause climate change. Fewer people means less climate change. Simples.

    Is this a serious question? Serious introspection and analysis. Do you have a steady job? Your own property? Savings in case things go south? That sort of thing.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,313 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I didn't say that I knew they wouldn't be, merely that you cant state that you would find your own children annoying, you don't have any.

    I didnt know that my own wouldn't be annoying, but I took the big brave step of assuming that since the vast, vast majority of people have children and have done so literally since time began, it was probably going to work out ok for us.

    Your "simples" explanation is too simplistic I'm afraid. Fewer people doesn't necessarily mean less climate change, unless you take the incredibly simplistic and naïve approach that everyone equally produces climate change?

    You cant accurately analyze something that you have no experience of. If you are going to say that you have family members with kids or friends with kids then I'm going to inform you that someone else's kids are nothing like your own kids. The reasons you mention for potentially not having kids seem little to do with "handling" them and more to do with being able to afford them.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I've no idea why people have to make up silly nonsense because some people choose not to have children. Plenty of people have made this choice and have gone on to lead rich and fulfilling lives.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    So today I found out that asking yourself if you are emotionally and financially capable of having children is actually eugenics! I shall shun such thinking in the future lest I wish to be accused of wanting to sterilise the homeless!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That poster has form for getting triggered whenever anyone disagrees with them. They respond with lies and gaslighting as above.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 717 ✭✭✭mykrodot


    i know your post in months old but your attitude is great, your lifestyle and your friends sound spot on too!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,422 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    All you can really do in life when making a big decision is to base it on the knowledge you currently have to hand. Nobody can read the future. I have no way of knowing anything about children that do not exist.

    Piece of knowledge 1 - In general, I find children incredibly annoying and don't want to be around them for extended periods of time.

    Piece of Knowledge 2 - all of my friends with children look almost a decade older than I do. They're mostly overweight, greying and look tired any time I see them.

    Piece of knowledge 3 - my life is pretty darn great as is. I've my own property, a great partner, a great job, great friends, my health and loads of time and cash for my hobbies that I am very involved in.

    Going on the above points, I can extrapolate to a degree as to how my life might change for the worse if I were to have children and have decided not to have any.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,330 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Missed my point.

    The poster alluded to the fact that people who don't have a steady job, home or income should not be having kids until all those boxes are ticked so to speak.

    A serious question thus arises, How many young people in their 30's or younger own their own home, how many have a job for life, how many of them have substantial savings that can sort them out for 4-6 months?

    I'd say if you looked at each criteria, the vast majority of people would fail that test.

    Individually, of course, people can decide for themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,330 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Lies?

    Ha, it wasn't I who stated that to 'handle' being a parent you must satisfy some arbitrary criteria.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,330 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Piece of Knowledge 2 - all of my friends with children look almost a decade older than I do. They're mostly overweight, greying and look tired any time I see them.

    That isn't knowledge, it's an anecdote.

    Why do people who want to be childfree (and fair play on your decision) need to punch down and use people with children as some mirror to base their decision of?

    I know many parents who are fit, happy, and healthy while people without kids spend a lot of their time in pubs drinking themselves away to oblivion.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I know many parents who are fit, happy, and healthy while people without kids spend a lot of their time in pubs drinking themselves away to oblivion.

    That would be an anecdote also, no?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,422 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    I was responding to someone posing 'how do you know?' type questions. The reality of the situation is 'I don't' - I just have to base my own personal decision on my experiences and observations of those around me who do have children.

    Having kids takes a toll on you physically. From lack of sleep in the early years, worrying and anxiety about providing for them, the physical toll on the body during pregnancy/child bearing, not to mention things like postnatal depression and how it can result in partners growing distant from each other - it's all fairly factual and I don't think it's punching down that I happen to have noticed a lot of the above in my peer group who have had kids.

    I am not saying that is every case, it would be ridiculous to say it is. There are plenty of people living healthy lives out there with kids. It's just another risk I'm not willing to take by having them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    I knew what your point was. I'm just interested in how you ended up at eugenics as a way to express that point? But I guess hyperbolic appeals to emotion are all the rage nowadays.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    "...punch down"


    Nonsense. It's the childed who do all the punching, and manipulate government into supporting their optional lifestyle choices.

    "...It's like saying marriage is a crapshoot, so whatever you do, don't get married... EVER!"

    There are legal escapes from marriage, it's called divorce. You typically can't retract the choice to have children, beyond giving them up for adoption, but the child exists at that point. At best you can foist the burden off onto others.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,330 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    True, but I'm not using it as a method to decide wether or not I should have kids.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,330 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Nonsense. It's the childed who do all the punching, and manipulate government into supporting their optional lifestyle choices.

    Tell us more about this 'manipulation' and support for optional 'lifestyle' choices, and try and say it without punching down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,422 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    What method are you/did you use if you don't mind me asking?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,330 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    If you know the history of Eugnics you will know that there have historically been calls for the 'unwashed' and poor to be sterilised in order to prevent them from having kids.

    As I mentioned already, most people would fail the 'are you rich enough' to have kids' criteria set out by that poster. Yes, it was hyperbolic, but it had a stench of eugenics of it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,330 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I wanted a family, as did my partner.

    You don't need an Excel sheet for this type of question, most of the time. Often people will know one way or the other. Good luck to people either way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,330 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    There is that word again. Repeating it wont make it true my'lord.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,422 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe



    It's absolutely okay to analyse your choices before making them.

    If I had the urge to make any big decision I'd first be asking myself 'why?' just to make sure it's the right decision and I'm not walking into a mistake.

    Be that buying a house in a certain area, taking a job, having kids etc.

    Deciding to have kids is just another big decision like any other one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,313 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Clearly none of these perceived negatives are really that much of an issue, based on the fact that all of us are here?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,422 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    What a strange bit of logic. What has us all being here got to do with people having negative experiences during parenthood?

    Is it that because we are all here, parenthood can't be bad by virtue of it 'always being that way'?

    I suppose what childless by choice people are doing is questioning a status quo. You don't have to have children, which is something society as a whole has somewhat brainwashed everyone into thinking is 'the correct way'.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Mod Note
    Folks, let's get back on topic.
    Please bear in mind that while this is a divisive topic, this is also the "Childfree by Choice" forum and is intended as a space for those who don't intend to have children for whatever reason.Please respect that.
    Thanks
    S


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    They say you die twice - firstly when you kick the bucket and lastly when you're no longer remembered by any living soul.

    So forget about who's going to wipe your arse and think of your legacy, children and grandchildren etc. :)

    Of course you can try to be famous by other means but that by definition is limited in itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    We had decided to remain child free, but then an accident happened,

    Once we had one we wanted more and that rest is history. Really enjoyed life being child free, and it was a shock when she got pregnant. But life has been amazing with the kids. Better than I ever thought it in a million years t would be.

    But I digress. To get back on to the post title ...

    What needs to happen in Ireland is that retirement vilagges need to start being built. Proper ones. I was visiting a realtive in the UK who lives in one and it was so nice. You have to be over 55 to live in it. It was its own little village, but on the outskirts of another village and had woods to walk in, a bowling green, cycle lanes, tennis courts, sports hall and a big hall where people could meet up for whatever they wanted to do, all sorts of nice things in and around it. It also had its own bus which did the rounds to all the local towns and villages. There were doctors who would call to the village twice a week and visit people who needed them. There were also nurse who lived there. There was also a service that went to the hospital and back as needed. We need that kind of place in Ireland. But in Ireland all you have for "retirement" villages is a little house in a bunch of little houses and nothing else with it. Its either a nursing home or just a normal house.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Guys- please think before you post- and be considerate of other posters.

    It only takes a moment to be civil.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The legacy argument makes no sense. Virtually nobody leaves a legacy. The best an average person is getting is something like a park bench with their name on it. A poor return for decades of your life if you ask me.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Pretty much this 100%. Do something with your life that people will remember for good reasons.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,510 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    We had decided to remain child free, but then an accident happened,

    Once we had one we wanted more and that rest is history. Really enjoyed life being child free, and it was a shock when she got pregnant. But life has been amazing with the kids.

    i suspect this is common enough; in that people who often don't want kids end up having them for various reasons, and are great parents.

    funny thing is, i know a couple, one of whom wanted kids and one who didn't. the one who didn't want the kids is a far better parent than the one who did.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,313 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    For me at least, its a pretty good indication that having significantly negative experiences is effectively an outlier.

    Otherwise the vast majority of people wouldn't be having kids.

    I don't agree that having kids is "the correct way", but its certainly the default way for things that are alive, its pretty much the meaning of and essential to life.

    Not having them doesn't make you wrong, but its certainly unusual.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Or, they're having children and don't want to admit it was a mistake. The only way to know what having a child is like is to have one for yourself by which point it's too late to step back.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,058 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    I don't think anyone having "accidents" and then going through with them can genuinely, innately not have wanted kids. They simply wouldn't have ended up in that situation in the first place otherwise. I don't want children and have never had so much as a pregnancy scare because I am *militant* about contraception. I simply can't conceive (no pun intended) of any scenario where a) I could end up pregnant or b) I'd continue the pregnancy if I did.

    Also, that "die twice" stuff is specious nonsense. What difference does it make that nobody remembers you any longer? You'll be dead, you won't know.





  • I’m 62, single, live alone & I’ve developed progressive MS, which has scared the sh1te out of me as to what is going to happen down the line. At Christmas, though my feet were numb, I did a skydive, a few months on and I need a stick or crutch to walk outside of my apartment. I’m an only child, no nieces or nephews, most cousins are considerably older than me, most friends my own age or older. Can’t even get taken on by a neurologist to get the needed treatment, looks like I will have to seek it overseas. It is highly likely I will end up in some sort of care setting, but the thoughts of the usual sort of nursing home with disturbed residents absolutely depress me. There’s very little availability in Ireland of sheltered independent living centres where assistance is on hand if and when needed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,313 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Likewise for not having children though. The only way to know not having one was a mistake is to have one.

    There was something on Newstalk the other day about 1 in 10 "at some stage" regretting having kids. So not necessarily regretting over all, but acknowledging that at some point they regretted it. Which, to be honest I think is true enough of so many things as to be meaningless.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I really don't see how regretting such an irreversible choice one way or the other is meaningless. I think the best that one can do is to analyse the situation and decide what's best. What we're seeing is that more and more people see having children as being less important which is fantastic given how overpopulated the planet is.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,313 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    The point that I tried to emphasize was that of those 1 in 10, they don't necessarily regret having kids now. Just that at some point in the past they did.

    Not having kids is also an irreversible choice too yunno!

    I would much rather that more people had fewer children than some people go without due to some sort of misguided save the planet ideology.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Doesn't mean they still don't. They could just be resigned to it.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,053 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Who looks after old people without kids now…?

    lots of old people rely on…

    good neighbors, friends, homecare etc… unfortunately the availability of homecare is a big issue. The companies pay peanuts, the population is ageing and spiralling upwards in number…

    that said technology is helping, like when I’m a senior individual I’m going to be able to order shopping online and deal with varying elements of engagement with healthcare, businesses etc. with an iPad. Which there is still a generation and a half that find that alien / impossible to manage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,422 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Generally when you take a poll on such a sensitive topic as this, the numbers you will get in reality far under represent the true figures.

    When you say something like '1 in 10 regret having kids at some stage', what you are actually saying is:

    '1 in 10 people will regret having children at some stage and have also come to terms with this fact to the point where they can acknowledge it to someone else'

    What you are missing then are:

    People who regret having children but have so much shame in doing so, they'd never acknowledge it within themselves, let anyone else.

    You've people who regret it but don't even realise they regret it due to cognitive dissonance.

    You've people who regret it and might acknowledge it within, but wouldn't tell another person in a million years.

    It's a very complex thing really, I doubt you'd ever get a real figure.

    All I know is, it has to be far higher than 1 in 10, if 1 in 10 people would currently admit it in a poll.

    As for regret in having/not having, I come from the point of view that I'd rather regret not having children than to have children and then regret having them. I think the later is actually a bit cruel tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,313 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I'm sure closer to 10 out of 10 people at some stage regretted having kids, the number who ultimately regret would be far lower though, imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Hard to say. These threads always ignore bad outcomes, like a disabled kid. Parents in the majority regret having a disabled kids. Siblings of disabled kids regret their parents choice.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I usually find that the people who shout most about how important it is to have children are the same ones who'll begrudge anyone struggling the meanest bit of support from the state. While, I'd say most of those anecdotes are made significantly worse by being American, I wouldn't want a disabled child in the UK either.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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