Options for enforcing no parking on a private road

nuac · 17-10-2020 12:06pm

Cyrus wrote: »

yes they have and i thanked people for them.

no need for you to "echo" anyone elses view.

Sorry, posted in wrong forum

The Continental Op · 17-10-2020 12:25pm

Has anyone thought to apply for planning permission to see if the council have changed their minds?

IamMe33 · 17-10-2020 12:34pm

The thread has gone off course by trying to paint the OP as a curtain-twitchng grump.

Easy to imagine scenarios where non-residents parking in estates doesn't impact anyone.
It's also easy to imagine scenarios where they do.

The shorter the term parking, the the greater the liklihood of less consideration in choosing where to park.
'Sure I'll only be a minute' is the rationale as you decide to park where most connvenient/closest to your pop-in destination.

Most poeple would usually try to choose not to block up driveways, or in a private driveway, or at an angle onto a road, but when spots become scarce during a surge event like a school pickup a percentage will opt for dog ignorance rather than inconvenience themselves by parking a minute or two further away.
Also plenty who will be more than '5 minutes' as they treat meeting up with other parents outside the schoold as a social event.

Most of the time it shouldn't impact residents needing the way clear, but you can't know when it might.
And if it does, even occasionallly, it's a problem.
Easy to scoff when it's not heaped on your own doorstep.

No, I'm not personally affected by this phenomenon where I live but can think of a couple of primary schools nearby where no parking manners are evident.

Hannibal_Smith · 17-10-2020 12:43pm

If the road was never going to be taken in charge by the council, then I would imagine it was a condition of the planning permission that a management company be set up?

Is the management company still up and running?

As someone else said, a Council can take an estate in charge despite what the planning permission says in certain circumstances and if an application is made to them by the residents. But that is a side issue.

Parents dropping off school kids is a bug bear of mine and I can completely see where you're coming from OP. At the end of the day, it is not a public road way. Its just a shame you can't get gates.

I have seen estates without gates and they have signs up on walls saying No Parking Private Residents only. There's an estate in Ranelagh that comes to mind. Could you ring a clamping company and ask them what their experience /process is and then put it to the Management Company/residents?

If the management company isn't up and running properly I'd get that sorted ASAP and get the common areas and roads insured.

AndrewJRenko · 17-10-2020 1:09pm

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I get that, I have small children myself.

I suppose my point was where else does OP expect parents to park to drop off their children.

Personally I’d only consider it an inconvenience were cars to block my driveway but that aside it’s a bit of a first world dilemma.

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Where should they park then?

Is there enough space outside the school?

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I think that’s entirely unfair.

Personally was trying to ascertain if parents had any other choice but to park in your estate or not.

Why it is now the responsibility of the OP or the management company of this development to provide drop-off parking for parents doing school drop offs?

Parents ALWAYS have a choice about where to park. They can ALWAYS find the nearest safe, legal parking spot and walk a bit from there, even if that costs them a couple of minutes on their journey.

Better still would be to take the choice to attend the local school so that they'll have the option to walk or cycle instead of blocking up traffic and pumping out toxic fumes just so that little Feekra and Suresha don't have to stretch their legs to get to their classrooms.

AndrewJRenko · 17-10-2020 1:11pm

Cyrus wrote: »

I doubt that’s it, we still need a management co, abs annual service charge , a sinking fund and we still need insurance for public liability, having gates would just increase the cost a little.

Problems with gates are a much more immediate, pressing issue, and indeed a possible safety and security issue. If you don't have a sinking fund, people can still get in and out.

The Continental Op · 17-10-2020 1:23pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why it is now the responsibility of the OP or the management company of this development to provide drop-off parking for parents doing school drop offs?

Parents ALWAYS have a choice about where to park. They can ALWAYS find the nearest safe, legal parking spot and walk a bit from there, even if that costs them a couple of minutes on their journey.

Better still would be to take the choice to attend the local school so that they'll have the option to walk or cycle instead of blocking up traffic and pumping out toxic fumes just so that little Feekra and Suresha don't have to stretch their legs to get to their classrooms.

But it doesn't work like that. People picking their kids up from school think they have the right to do any of the following and more .....

Stop in the middle of the road
Park on the pavement
Park on double yellow lines
Park on pelican crossings
Park on zebra crossings
Park within 3m of crossings and junctions
Park on roundabouts
Park where there are white lines down the middle of the road forcing other drivers to cross the lines
Park on cycle lanes (ironic when they are often there to keep kids safe)
Park 3 foot out in the road
Park in disabled parking places
Block access to drives
Park in spots allocated for buses
Double park
Drive less than 400m from house to school to pick the kids up.
etc

And whats worse they will do it day after day after day even if the school asks them not to.

Personally I'd go for gates or blocking the road one way or another. Where my parents had this problem near them the locals put a chain across the road and just put it up when there was going to be a problem with parking (they were near a beach with limited parking so chain when up on sunny weekends during the summer).

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 1:28pm

Kowerski wrote: »

It was a joke. Who in their right mind would actually go and ask to install gates in first place just to block a few mothers

Bit sexist there chief

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 1:31pm

Sittingpretty wrote: »

It’s not your driveway.

If someone parked in my driveway I’d be furious and rightly so. If someone parked on the pathway outside my house to drop their children to school, being a parent to small children I’d have no issue with that.

If they do have other suitable options and are not using them then I’d suggest making a nuisance of yourself every drop off and collection time until you irritate them so much by asking them to leave they’ll eventually not want to encounter you and park where they should be parking.

Otherwise I see no legal solution save gates or employing a clamping company and these bring with them their own issues.

If it’s a safety issue for children then you could also go the route of speaking with the principal/parents council of the school however, in this instance, my own personal experience is it effects change for a short period and then people revert to the status quo of parking wherever they please.

I suppose it all depends on the basis of the resident’s issue and how far they are prepared to go/how much they are willing to pay to resolve it.

It really really does depend on whether or not the parents have other options. If they don’t then I’d say you’re fighting a losing battle and it’d be less stressful for residents to accept it as an inconvenience of living in such close proximity to to a school than to pursue a long term response effort.

Is the path outside your house yours or the councils ? Because if it’s the council your opinion on whether people park on it or not is irrelevant as it’s not your property.

I have small kids too and when I take them to school I make sure to park in an appropriate place.

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 1:32pm

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

If the road was never going to be taken in charge by the council, then I would imagine it was a condition of the planning permission that a management company be set up?

Is the management company still up and running?

As someone else said, a Council can take an estate in charge despite what the planning permission says in certain circumstances and if an application is made to them by the residents. But that is a side issue.

Parents dropping off school kids is a bug bear of mine and I can completely see where you're coming from OP. At the end of the day, it is not a public road way. Its just a shame you can't get gates.

I have seen estates without gates and they have signs up on walls saying No Parking Private Residents only. There's an estate in Ranelagh that comes to mind. Could you ring a clamping company and ask them what their experience /process is and then put it to the Management Company/residents?

If the management company isn't up and running properly I'd get that sorted ASAP and get the common areas and roads insured.

Thanks for the constructive post , mgt co up and running all insurances etc in place .

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 1:37pm

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

Op I'd hate too live anywhere near you.
You sound like a horrible neighbor too even consider clamping somebody's car if they are dropping little johnny or Mary too school.
A couple of minutes a day and your out barking.
I could only imagine what you would be like if the school parked the school bus there.
Would you not consider moving house ???

I’m a lovely neighbour, the people parking aren’t my neighbours though.

And yes I’d be apoplectic if a school bus used our
private road to park on.

Sittingpretty · 17-10-2020 1:41pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Is the path outside your house yours or the councils ? Because if it’s the council your opinion on whether people park on it or not is irrelevant as it’s not your property.

I have small kids too and when I take them to school I make sure to park in an appropriate place.

I don’t live in an estate and couldn’t be paid enough to do so. I live in the countryside, there is no path outside my house though, occasionally people park their cars outside my house to walk their dogs in nearby woods. Again I’ve no issue with this.

My children attend a country school 20 minutes drive from my house at which I park at the church car park and walk them to the gates.

I’m not your problem here.

I think you’ve received good advice here. Best of luck.

Sittingpretty · 17-10-2020 1:43pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why it is now the responsibility of the OP or the management company of this development to provide drop-off parking for parents doing school drop offs?

Parents ALWAYS have a choice about where to park. They can ALWAYS find the nearest safe, legal parking spot and walk a bit from there, even if that costs them a couple of minutes on their journey.

Better still would be to take the choice to attend the local school so that they'll have the option to walk or cycle instead of blocking up traffic and pumping out toxic fumes just so that little Feekra and Suresha don't have to stretch their legs to get to their classrooms.

Parents don’t always have a choice of where to park.

I didn’t say it was was the OP responsibility to provide drop off points.

And it’s Fiachra not Feekra

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 1:44pm

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I don’t live in an estate and couldn’t be paid enough to do so. I live in the countryside, there is no path outside my house though, occasionally people park their cars outside my house to walk their dogs in nearby woods. Again I’ve no issue with this.

My children attend a country school 20 minutes drive from my house at which I park at the church car park and walk them to the gates.

I’m not your problem here.

I think you’ve received good advice here. Best of luck.

If there’s no path outside your house why post and say you don’t mind if someone parks on the path outside your house ? And I never asked if you lived in an estate that’s not relevant .

spyderski · 17-10-2020 1:45pm

I’m putting up with a similar attitude from neighbours in a newly built infill estate beside ours. It’s also beside a school. They also want to erect gates and believe their estate is private property when their grant of planning permission explicitly states that the public areas will be take in charge by the local authority. The same local authority as the OP’s who have a policy not to allow gated communities. Seems like a serious case of buyers remorse from property owners who didn’t research their purchase properly. Wonder if it’s the same development we’re talking about?

Sittingpretty · 17-10-2020 1:48pm

Cyrus wrote: »

If there’s no path outside your house why post and say you don’t mind if someone parks on the path outside your house ? And I never asked if you lived in an estate that’s not relevant .

Because I grew up in an estate, and lived in one throughout my 20’s. So I have experience of living in one.

Nothing I or anyone else who thinks you’re being a bit of a Victor Meldrew says here is relevant in your opinion So as I say, best of luck, hope you get your dilemma resolved.

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 1:54pm

spyderski wrote: »

I’m putting up with a similar attitude from neighbours in a newly built infill estate beside ours. It’s also beside a school. They also want to erect gates and believe their estate is private property when their grant of planning permission explicitly states that the public areas will be take in charge by the local authority. The same local authority as the OP’s who have a policy not to allow gated communities. Seems like a serious case of buyers remorse from property owners who didn’t research their purchase properly. Wonder if it’s the same development we’re talking about?

It’s not sorry to disappoint you. You must have been giddy

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 1:56pm

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Because I grew up in an estate, and lived in one throughout my 20’s. So I have experience of living in one.

Nothing I or anyone else who thinks you’re being a bit of a Victor Meldrew says here is relevant in your opinion So as I say, best of luck, hope you get your dilemma resolved.

I didn’t ask for anyone’s opinion on whether I’m being like victor meldew or not but it hasn’t stopped a few of you giving it, it’s peak boards really .

And sorry your credibility is shot a little as the path you don’t mind people parking on doesn’t exist anyway !

spyderski · 17-10-2020 1:58pm

Cyrus wrote: »

It’s not sorry to disappoint you. You must have been giddy

Wow, that means there’s at least 2 estates in DLRC’s area where people are apoplectic and want to erect gates which would be in clear contravention of council policy. Guess that’s SoCoDu for ya! Maybe write a strongly worded letter to the Irish Times? Seems to be a popular pastime around here..

Graham · 17-10-2020 1:59pm

Mod Note

quit it with the personal digs.

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 2:01pm

spyderski wrote: »

Wow, that means there’s at least 2 estates in DLRC’s area where people are apoplectic and want to erect gates which would be in clear contravention of council policy. Guess that’s SoCoDu for ya! Maybe write a strongly worded letter to the Irish Times? Seems to be a popular pastime around here..

Don’t be salty because your super sleuthing was wrong

And I never said we were apoplectic .

Finally the other estate your referring to clearly isn’t private so your comparison is entirely inaccurate.

Sittingpretty · 17-10-2020 2:02pm

Cyrus wrote: »

I didn’t ask for anyone’s opinion on whether I’m being like victor meldew or not but it hasn’t stopped a few of you giving it, it’s peak boards really .

And sorry your credibility is shot a little as the path you don’t mind people parking on doesn’t exist anyway !

I never claimed to have any credibility to begin with

I see someone reported my post for calling you a Victor Meldrew in this thread. You couldn’t actually make it up, it seems you’re not alone on planet curmudgeon.

It was worth it the warning

Ta ta.

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 2:06pm

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I never claimed to have any credibility to begin with

I see someone reported my post for calling you a Victor Meldrew in this thread. You couldn’t actually make it up, it seems you’re not alone on planet curmudgeon.

It was worth it the warning

Ta ta.

Wasn’t me for what it’s worth but cheerio!

spyderski · 17-10-2020 2:08pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Don’t be salty because your super sleuthing was wrong

And I never said we were apoplectic .

Finally the other estate your referring to clearly isn’t private so your comparison is entirely inaccurate.

That’s what’s so funny - it isn’t private, but the residents think it is. They’re relying on an ambiguous solicitors letter which is dancing on the head of a needle. I’ve got a senior counsels opinion which will put them straight in the very near future. Very entertaining.

Lantus · 17-10-2020 2:10pm

Is it really an issue at all? Kids being picked up is a 5 to 10min task and they will want to be gone as quick as anyone.

Most people wouldn't see this as they are at work. If your in all day then is waiting at the window for a car to hover outside your house for 10 mins a good use of your time??

And I live outside a school with same issue. Except its not an issue.....
Too busy to worry about that nonsense or my 'precious' street, which isn't mine anyway...

Kowerski · 17-10-2020 2:11pm

spyderski wrote: »

That’s what’s so funny - it isn’t private, but the residents think it is. They’re relying on an ambiguous solicitors letter which is dancing on the head of a needle. I’ve got a senior counsels opinion which will put them straight in the very near future. Very entertaining.

The OP refuses to accept advice. As I posted I live in estate which was private and now has been transferred into the local county council, they recently arrived put up signs etc.

Not sure why the OP put up a post in first place if they already think they know more than anyone else

spyderski · 17-10-2020 2:17pm

Kowerski wrote: »

The OP refuses to accept advice. As I posted I live in estate which was private and now has been transferred into the local county council, they recently arrived put up signs etc.

Not sure why the OP put up a post in first place if they already think they know more than anyone else

Yep. Same as my local example. The estate is CURRENTLY private (which is what their solicitors letter says, and is technically correct at this moment in time), however it’s a condition of planning that it SHALL be taken in charge by the council once complete. The sad thing is, I couldn’t have cared less about what they did, until they stopped my kids from cycling on the road, and told my wife that “they weren’t being elitist”!

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 2:17pm

spyderski wrote: »

That’s what’s so funny - it isn’t private, but the residents think it is. They’re relying on an ambiguous solicitors letter which is dancing on the head of a needle. I’ve got a senior counsels opinion which will put them straight in the very near future. Very entertaining.

Unfortunately I’m paying a fortune in management fees so there’s no ambiguity here, seems like you have gone to great efforts to prove your neighbours wrong, entertaining indeed !

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 2:19pm

Lantus wrote: »

Too busy to worry about that nonsense or my 'precious' street, which isn't mine anyway...

Well then whether you care or not doesn’t matter because people can park there if they want

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 2:19pm

spyderski wrote: »

Yep. Same as my local example. The estate is CURRENTLY private (which is what their solicitors letter says, and is technically correct at this moment in time), however it’s a condition of planning that it SHALL be taken in charge by the council once complete. The sad thing is, I couldn’t have cared less about what they did, until they stopped my kids from cycling on the road, and told my wife that “they weren’t being elitist”!

And it’s a condition of ours that they won’t take it in charge, so the exact opposite.

spyderski · 17-10-2020 2:20pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Unfortunately I’m paying a fortune in management fees so there’s no ambiguity here, seems like you have gone to great efforts to prove your neighbours wrong, entertaining indeed !

Paying management fees doesn’t mean the estate is private. The fees will be used for the sinking fund to cover communal roofs etc. The development I’m referring to also has a management company and pay fees.

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 2:21pm

Kowerski wrote: »

The OP refuses to accept advice. As I posted I live in estate which was private and now has been transferred into the local county council, they recently arrived put up signs etc.

Not sure why the OP put up a post in first place if they already think they know more than anyone else

Well ours is private and will likely stay that way for reasons I don’t need to share with you but will be why the council made that decision in the first place.

I got the answers to my post and thanked people for them, you arrived after the fact and have added nothing .

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 2:23pm

spyderski wrote: »

Paying management fees doesn’t mean the estate is private. The fees will be used for the sinking fund to cover communal roofs etc. The development I’m referring to also has a management company and pay fees.

The fees here are to pay for street lighting , insurance of the common areas and landscaping I.e the stuff the council would cover if they took it in charge , which they won’t . Not sure why I’m engaging with you on this you might set your senior council on me.

ted1 · 17-10-2020 2:55pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Whether they have an option or not that’s not an issue it’s private land they shouldn’t be in here at all, same as someone’s driveway or their entrance to their house.

No it’s very different

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 2:56pm

ted1 wrote: »

No it’s very different

How so?

17-10-2020 2:58pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Thought you were going stop repeating yourself ?

Where did I say that before?

Cyrus · 17-10-2020 3:01pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I'm only going to end up repeating myself which you will ignore again so I will not bother. Yo have evidently decided

Here you go

ted1 · 17-10-2020 3:02pm

Cyrus wrote: »

I’d have thought it was obvious by now. Keep unwanted people out .

You wanted to keep unwanted cars out. Guess it’s not obvious.

If you want to keep cars out , you could engage with a clamping company. But first check what planning was granted with regards visitor spots and public parking.

spyderski · 17-10-2020 3:02pm

Cyrus wrote: »

How so?

It’s different because your driveway is unambiguously your property. The road through your estate is, by definition open to the public. Do you also want to stop bin lorries, tradesmen etc using the road to access properties in your estate?

I think this problem is symptomatic of people being forced to live in communal type developments due to the land value. This is why I bought a detached house on its own plot. I couldn’t afford to buy a detached house in the same area now - I’d be also forced to buy in one of these communal developments. Council policy to increase housing density is also to blame.

99nsr125 · 17-10-2020 3:02pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Sometimes the solution to a problem is to consider whether or not it's such a big problem after all, and if you should just learn to live with it. If you don't think that applies here - and clearly you don't - then once again, fair 'nuff.

I think it's more of a case of I live in a private estate and we want no skangers in here

Kowerski · 17-10-2020 3:04pm

ted1 wrote: »

No it’s very different

Wouldn't bother...

AndrewJRenko · 17-10-2020 3:05pm

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Parents don’t always have a choice of where to park.

In what circumstances do people not have the choice of parking legally and safely, albeit a little further away?

Kowerski · 17-10-2020 3:07pm

99nsr125 wrote: »

I think it's more of a case of I live in a private estate and we want no skangers in here

Skangers? they are mothers going to drop off kids. How did you get Skangers from that?

Some of the biggest sh*tholes in Dublin are "private" estates by the way. Just because you stick private in the front of it doesn't make it any better

Kowerski · 17-10-2020 3:08pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

In what circumstances do people not have the choice of parking legally and safely, albeit a little further away?

They are parking in a closed estate, perfectly legal and not blocking anyone. How is that not legally and safely? Just because the OP doesn't like it doesn't mean it is not legal

17-10-2020 3:09pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Unfortunately I’m paying a fortune in management fees so there’s no ambiguity here, seems like you have gone to great efforts to prove your neighbours wrong, entertaining indeed !

Plenty of estates handed over still pay management fees. It's not a or b. The council won't maintain the corridors etc of an apartment block and so on

AndrewJRenko · 17-10-2020 3:10pm

Lantus wrote: »

Is it really an issue at all? Kids being picked up is a 5 to 10min task and they will want to be gone as quick as anyone.

Great, sure if it's only a few minutes, the parents will have no problem in finding alternative safe and legal parking nearby, right?

17-10-2020 3:11pm

Kowerski wrote: »

They are parking in a closed estate, perfectly legal and not blocking anyone. How is that not legally and safely? Just because the OP doesn't like it doesn't mean it is not legal

To be fair to him, it's private so not legal, it's a civil trespass.

They have a defence though in that it appears there's little evidence to the naked eye of this fact.

Kowerski · 17-10-2020 3:12pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Great, sure if it's only a few minutes, the parents will have no problem in finding alternative safe and legal parking nearby, right?

If they are blocking driveway, taking spots etc you could have an argument but based on the posts so far they are doing none of the above. They are parking legally and not disturbing anyone. I don't see the problem but then again I am a reasonable person

AndrewJRenko · 17-10-2020 3:12pm

Kowerski wrote: »

They are parking in a closed estate, perfectly legal and not blocking anyone. How is that not legally and safely? Just because the OP doesn't like it doesn't mean it is not legal

They're on private property. It's not their space.

Why would they and you feel entitled to use other people's space for storage of their own private property?

AndrewJRenko · 17-10-2020 3:12pm

Kowerski wrote: »

If they are blocking driveway, taking spots etc you could have an argument but based on the posts so far they are doing none of the above. They are parking legally and not disturbing anyone. I don't see the problem but then again I am a reasonable person

They are NOT parking legally if they are on private property.

Options for enforcing no parking on a private road

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