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Abolish the Dole

  • 05-09-2018 8:18pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9


    I believe the Irish government should cut social welfare payments drastically and implement a food stamp program similar to the one currently running in the USA. This would allow the government to free up cash to reduce borrowing and reduce the tax burden on the middle classes. It sickens me that people like Margaret Cash have the money for Sky digital subscriptions, shopping trips to Newry and computers with internet connections to post their drivel on Facebook. It has got to the stage were these people genuinely believe they deserve a reasonable middle-ish class lifestyle at the expense of the state. This may seem harsh to some but it is only fair that people that don't work live in abject poverty and are subjected to all the ills that such a lifestyle predisposes them to. I feel genuine rage that I am paying for other people's way through life; it makes me feel genuinely ill. At the moment the only viable alternative is to move to the US, a country where hard work is rewarded and the likes of Margaret Cash are left were they belong - in the gutter.


«1345

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,822 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Maybe thanks your rage and direct it at multinationals avoiding paying millions in tax every year. Easier to kick down though I guess


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon




  • Registered Users Posts: 653 ✭✭✭Gonad


    You know that type of thinking is exactly what the elite want you to think . Blame Margaret Cash for all the problems in the country . I actually thought it was strange the amount of publicity her plight was given and when you see posts like yours it’s obvious why they allowed her so much airtime.

    But they wouldn’t actually give the many many genuine homeless people that kind of publicity.

    Job done by them I guess .


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,972 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    I believe the Irish government should cut social welfare payments drastically and implement a food stamp program similar to the one currently running in the USA. This would allow the government to free up cash to reduce borrowing and reduce the tax burden on the middle classes.

    If you want to save money on the welfare budget you cut pensions

    Approx 7.6 billion spent on pensions each year compared to 2.1 billion for job seekers

    Are ya gonna propose that OP?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,654 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    Is John From Carlow Andy From Sligos evil nemesis?

    tenor.gif?itemid=11796793


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    well OP has a point maybe wrong example but smth like if one hasnt worked at least 5-10 years shouldnt be allowed on the dole if one is 18yold or gets knocked up let the parents pick up the slack, to many people well abled to work, get used to this free cash scheme, now being been on both sides its not a luxury life even if one doesnt have overheads, and not something one should rely on, i get some people fall on rough times but big majority see it as means of living that sort of life style, which gets easily passed onto next generation.


    Thou theres quite few schemes on now where they put pressure on people but still to many loopholes for those that dont want any work, worst being the longer one relies on it the chances of getting back to employment goes down with each year radically.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Still bitter about the Sugar Factory OP?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    It should be a safety net for when you fall on hard times after you pay into the system not a way of life.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,671 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Maybe thanks your rage and direct it at multinationals avoiding paying millions in tax every year. Easier to kick down though I guess

    Who provide thousands of well paid jobs.

    Its up to the Government to close any tax loopholes that might exist, if they took their eye off the ball thats not the companies issue to sort out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    I believe the Irish government should cut social welfare payments drastically and implement a food stamp program similar to the one currently running in the USA. This would allow the government to free up cash to reduce borrowing and reduce the tax burden on the middle classes. It sickens me that people like Margaret Cash have the money for Sky digital subscriptions, shopping trips to Newry and computers with internet connections to post their drivel on Facebook. It has got to the stage were these people genuinely believe they deserve a reasonable middle-ish class lifestyle at the expense of the state. This may seem harsh to some but it is only fair that people that don't work live in abject poverty and are subjected to all the ills that such a lifestyle predisposes them to. I feel genuine rage that I am paying for other people's way through life; it makes me feel genuinely ill. At the moment the only viable alternative is to move to the US, a country where hard work is rewarded and the likes of Margaret Cash are left were they belong - in the gutter.

    How much tax do you pay OP? Now remove every service you receive from the state, roads hospitals etc, cant imagine you fund much after that


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,388 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I would stop all those pensioners heading off on exotic foreign holidays on their Social Welfare money. They get a lot more than the people on the dole. Make them spend the money at home.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Most of the dole money goes straight back into the economy tbf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    They'll never do it because it would be political suicide and they would get voted out of the Dáil in the next general election. The €20 billion that is spent every year on welfare is way too high in my opinion but it's not all going to people on the dole!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,687 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    P_1 wrote: »
    It should be a safety net for when you fall on hard times after you pay into the system not a way of life.

    Exactly.

    50% or less of the current dole for those who have never had a job.

    100% for those who have just left employment, dropping 10% after 3 years on the register and a further 10% every 3 months until it hits 50%.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Where would you cut DontThankMe?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,388 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    They'll never do it because it would be political suicide and they would get voted out of the Dáil in the next general election. The €20 billion that is spent every year on welfare is way too high in my opinion but it's not all going to people on the dole!

    There could be some of it going into your family. Would you like to see that cut?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Some people really want to condemn innocent children to poverty dont they


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Heard a mother today crying on the radio as she sees her kids for an hour after crèche each day cause she works to pay taxes etc.

    Also would love a 3rd child but can’t afford it.

    Then we have ms cash who can afford to have 7 children and stay home with them in a free house while collecting 50k a year all paid for by this poor working mother.

    Yeah but conquer and divide rabble, multinationals rabble rabble, most vulnerable in society rabble ****en rabble.

    Spare me....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Pa8301


    Eat the Poor!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    OP take yourself for a walk around some of the US towns and cities with high unemployment and see if you come back with the same opinion...

    while I don't want people taking advantage of a social welfare system I abhor the US system which penalises everyone, even those that do want to work.

    Move to the US it's perfect:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/she-said-i-had-the-best-kind-of-cancer-you-could-have-1.3597363


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Heard a mother today crying on the radio as she sees her kids for an hour after crèche each day cause she works to pay taxes etc.

    Also would love a 3rd child but can’t afford it.

    Then we have ms cash who can afford to have 7 children and stay home with them in a free house while collecting 50k a year all paid for by this poor working mother.

    Yeah but conquer and divide rabble, multinationals rabble rabble, most vulnerable in society rabble ****en rabble.

    Spare me....

    Cant imagine she works to pay taxes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    If the dole was abolished completely I would give the state a fortnight max before it looked like a mad max post apocalyptic wasteland.

    Apart from Finglas... obviously - as you can't take knickers off a bare hole.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    jon1981 wrote: »
    OP take yourself for a walk around some of the US towns and cities with high unemployment and see if you come back with the same opinion...

    while I don't want people taking advantage of a social welfare system I abhor the US system which penalises everyone, even those that do want to work.

    Move to the US it's perfect:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/she-said-i-had-the-best-kind-of-cancer-you-could-have-1.3597363

    I was in San Fran and it was disgusting to see abject poverty and extreme wealth everywhere. People abandoned left to live on the streets and beg, is that a society we want?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    If the dole was abolished completely I would give the state a fortnight max before it looked like a mad max post apocalyptic wasteland.

    Apart from Finglas... obviously - as you can't take knickers off a bare hole.

    are you saying Finglas would cease looking like one, otherwise your sentence doesn't make sense


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭badtoro


    Abolish dole threads.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭wally1990


    CSO https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lr/liveregisterjune2018/



    The number of long term claimants on the Live Register in June 2018 was 94,778.

    The number of male long term claimants decreased by 13,581 (-19.4%) in the year to June 2018, while females decreased by 6,846 (-15.1%), giving an overall annual decrease of 20,427 (-17.7%) in the number of long term claimants. See table 6 and figure 2.

    In June 2018, 58.4% (133,287) of all claimants on the Live Register were short term claimants.

    The comparable figure for June 2017 was 57.1% (153,521).

    The annual fall of 20,234 (-13.2%) in the number of short term claimants consisted of a decrease of 12,103 (-14.6%) in the number of male short term claimants and a decrease of 8,131 (-11.5%) in female short term claimants. See table 6.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted 10 December 1948 by the UN General Assembly, contains this text regarding housing and quality of living:

    Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    Try_harder wrote: »
    Where would you cut DontThankMe?

    Child benefit for a start if you have more than 3 kids (Just randomly picked 3) you should get less of a payment for the 4th child and so on. It should also be means tested so families with an income over 100k shouldn't get it buy maybe replace with a subsidised child care or something similar.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    I've often thought what Ireland needs is to be more like America. I believe they also have some fantastic ideas on gun ownership laws that we could look into as well.


    /sarcasm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,388 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Maybe it is better that some people are given €107.70 a week to do nothing. Rather that letting them out into the world of work. Some of them are only cut out to be permanent mature students, and would ruin your house if they became a plumber.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭lalababa


    There are alot of people riding the SW system, because it is well worth riding! You don't have to work your ass off for an income or house! Alot of these people are also doing nixers/seasonal OR/AND full time jobs on the sly.
    Low paid Gen. Op etc. work is paying only E10 p.h. and alot of that work can be tough enough. So E400 p.w.(E366 net) to run a car , pay rent, medical ins. etc.
    Very tough to do in the cities. Kiss morgaging a house goodbye.

    On the dole E190(E190 net). Don't have to run car, most of rent paid,medical card, wait what 5-10 on the housing list? It is a NO BRAINER! Esp. if you have a family.
    SW have to actively hound people doing nixers or hiding income. Almost all low paid work/hospitality is done by Eastern Europens. Alot of Irish people wouldn't be seen dead in these jobs. Government have to encourage dolers to work these jobs (legally). How they do this I don't know?
    Maybe get all nixers investigated/drop dole benefits/incentivise working by making it easier to secure home/accomodation on low wages.
    Will any centrist gov. do this -no.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    There could be some of it going into your family. Would you like to see that cut?

    I've been on the dole myself but it was a choice if I'm being honest not a necessity. None of my family are currently on any social welfare payment but if they were and it was to get cut I wouldn't have a problem with it. I can't advocate cutting social welfare l and then say you can't cut a payment to a family member.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,172 ✭✭✭screamer


    Try_harder wrote: »
    Where would you cut DontThankMe?

    Child benefit for a start if you have more than 3 kids (Just randomly picked 3) you should get less of a payment for the 4th child and so on. It should also be means tested so families with an income over 100k shouldn't get it buy maybe replace with a subsidised child care or something similar.
    Yep.. the people who contribute the most to keep the **** from hitting the fan should get the least back. Spare me. Sure let's drive all the high earners out of Ireland (other countries are offering huge wages and benefits), and watch it turn into a **** hole overnight.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Try_harder wrote: »
    I was in San Fran and it was disgusting to see abject poverty and extreme wealth everywhere. People abandoned left to live on the streets and beg, is that a society we want?

    I travel there regularly with work, the locals are blind to it now. Most of the poor and homeless also have severe mental issues, again ignored.

    Though I guess San Fran is a bubble in itself, you need a minimum 100k salary just to afford a studio in that city.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Child benefit for a start if you have more than 3 kids (Just randomly picked 3) you should get less of a payment for the 4th child and so on. It should also be means tested so families with an income over 100k shouldn't get it buy maybe replace with a subsidised child care or something similar.

    How much saving would all this red tape actually generate?

    I presume you would include the crude exception that if a 4th or subsequent child was as a result of rape you would allow child benefit for that child?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rape-victims-child-benefits-women-dwp-universal-credit-work-pensions-support-a8421086.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    jon1981 wrote: »
    I travel there regularly with work, the locals are blind to it now. Most of the poor and homeless also have severe mental issues, again ignored.

    It repulsed me, The American Dream? No thanks.

    Norway on the other hand was a very different affair


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭Ninthlife


    wally1990 wrote: »
    CSO https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lr/liveregisterjune2018/



    The number of long term claimants on the Live Register in June 2018 was 94,778.

    The number of male long term claimants decreased by 13,581 (-19.4%) in the year to June 2018, while females decreased by 6,846 (-15.1%), giving an overall annual decrease of 20,427 (-17.7%) in the number of long term claimants. See table 6 and figure 2.

    In June 2018, 58.4% (133,287) of all claimants on the Live Register were short term claimants.

    The comparable figure for June 2017 was 57.1% (153,521).

    The annual fall of 20,234 (-13.2%) in the number of short term claimants consisted of a decrease of 12,103 (-14.6%) in the number of male short term claimants and a decrease of 8,131 (-11.5%) in female short term claimants. See table 6.


    Lies, lies and damn statistics!

    Theres a large number of Jobseekers receipients who are taken off the live registrar by puttimg them on Tús Schemes. Beneficial to the local community but really just massaging and manipulating figures to make it seem as if there is a higher rate of employment then there actually is. The money is still coming out of the same social welfare budget


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Sure scrap maternity benefit while we're at it... pesky kids.

    /more sarcasm.

    Again the US is great
    Currently, the Family Medical Leave Act, gives women 12 weeks job-protected unpaid leave, but many workers don't qualify for that

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/05/17/paid-maternity-leave-elite-benefit-u-s/325075001/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    Lies, lies and damn statistics!

    Theres a large number of Jobseekers receipients who are taken off the live registrar by puttimg them on Tús Schemes. Beneficial to the local community but really just massaging and manipulating figures to make it seem as if there is a higher rate of employment then there actually is

    Surely things like the Tus scheme should be supported? An income earned from work and the society benefits?


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  • Posts: 5,311 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I believe the Irish government should cut social welfare payments drastically and implement a food stamp program similar to the one currently running in the USA. This would allow the government to free up cash to reduce borrowing and reduce the tax burden on the middle classes. It sickens me that people like Margaret Cash have the money for Sky digital subscriptions, shopping trips to Newry and computers with internet connections to post their drivel on Facebook. It has got to the stage were these people genuinely believe they deserve a reasonable middle-ish class lifestyle at the expense of the state. This may seem harsh to some but it is only fair that people that don't work live in abject poverty and are subjected to all the ills that such a lifestyle predisposes them to. I feel genuine rage that I am paying for other people's way through life; it makes me feel genuinely ill. At the moment the only viable alternative is to move to the US, a country where hard work is rewarded and the likes of Margaret Cash are left were they belong - in the gutter.

    Abolish your drivel. What reactionary nonsense, let all those who have fallen between the cracks up sticks to a bastion of democracy. That brush is running dry...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    Try_harder wrote: »
    How much saving would all this red tape actually generate?

    I presume you would include the crude exception that if a 4th or subsequent child was as a result of rape you would allow child benefit for that child?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rape-victims-child-benefits-women-dwp-universal-credit-work-pensions-support-a8421086.html

    I don't have figures off the top of my head but I'm you'd get an estimate from figures off the CSO website.

    WOW that is some leap to make for a simple suggestion of cutting the payment for each subsequent child.

    So you're telling me the state and hard working tax payers should keep funding a woman that keeps popping out babies one after another where do we draw the line?

    The entitlement culture in this country is one of the main reasons we spend so much on welfare. Some people out there believe that the government should provide them with everything they need without having to work a day in their lives or contribute a single euro in PAYE, PRSI or USC


  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think it's time to look seriously at Universal Basic Income, I know that an experiment in Finland was done a couple of years ago and then suspended without explanation.
    The main reason for this is to allow people to take the low paid jobs and avoid the trap of losing benefits and ending up no better off or even worse off than staying at home on the scratcher.
    Also, it would remove the stigma of being "unemployed", even more so as we move into a world of ever increasing automation.
    Another thing to consider is "what is money?" It is a symbol of pure faith that is imposed by banks and supported by governments, it is based on nothing apart from sentiment and can be printed at will, but only if you're the one controlling the presses.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭Ninthlife


    Try_harder wrote: »
    Surely things like the Tus scheme should be supported? An income earned from work and the society benefits?

    Like i said benficial to the community and the participants and Ive no issue with the scheme.

    But it is an easy mechanism by government to manipulate unemployment figures


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    I don't have figures off the top of my head but I'm you'd get an estimate from figures off the CSO website.

    WOW that is some leap to make for a simple suggestion of cutting the payment for each subsequent child.

    So you're telling me the state and hard working tax payers should keep funding a woman that keeps popping out babies one after another where do we draw the line?

    The entitlement culture in this country is one of the main reasons we spend so much on welfare. Some people out there believe that the government should provide them with everything they need without having to work a day in their lives or contribute a single euro in PAYE, PRSI or USC

    Plenty of high earners are anything but Hard Working

    Work input =! Reward! Such a Tory expression.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,388 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Try_harder wrote: »
    How much saving would all this red tape actually generate?

    I presume you would include the crude exception that if a 4th or subsequent child was as a result of rape you would allow child benefit for that child?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rape-victims-child-benefits-women-dwp-universal-credit-work-pensions-support-a8421086.html

    Much simpler would be to make it payable only for the third child and subsequent children. Nothing for the first two. This is what was in the Act which brought it in , in 1944. Before that nothing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    Like i said benficial to the community and the participants and Ive no issue with the scheme.

    But it is an easy mechanism by government to manipulate unemployment figures

    But if its beneficial why get so annoyed! You want to call them unemployed?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    Try_harder wrote: »
    Plenty of high earners are anything but Hard Working

    Work input =! Reward! Such a Tory expression.

    Yes but at least those "non-hard working" high earners are actually contributing money into the tax system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Much simpler would be to make it payable only for the third child and subsequent children. Nothing for the first two. This is what was in the Act which brought it in , in 1944. Before that nothing.

    Then the <3 kids families would feel hard done by!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Yes but at least those "non-hard working" high earners are actually contributing money into the tax system.

    So are the non-hardworking poor people! In fact a far greater % of their money feeds directly back into the local economy and exchequer!


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