Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 5:42pm

muddypaws wrote: »

I'm outta here. If your whole rationale of how police forces should operate is that, it's pointless.

Get out into the real world and live your life.

If you think my theory doesn't hold up.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mobile-phone-sergei-skripal-daughter-12248068

A source (who?) told the paper: “The most credible explanation is their phones were switched off during the morning of the day they were targeted.

"The most likely reason would be if they were going to meet someone and wanted to remain off the radar.

There you have it Skipral was trying to avoid surveillance in those hours. It obvious why the British police are not releasing images of them returning because it would expose what exactly happening not the story the British are trying to sell.

Notice how this little nugget of information from March is never talked about now.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 6:00pm

According to the information which has so far been made available to the public, at 9:19 a.m. on March 4 Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia visited the graves of Skripal’s wife and son in a local cemetery in Salisbury.

Then we have a gap of around 4 hours. We assuming they returned home after visiting the graveyard.

At 1:30 p.m. they parked their car and dropped by a local pub.

The British have convinced a lot of people with this narrative, but the evidence clearly shows Skipral was meeting someone (presumably these men?) between these hours? Turning off your GPS tracking on your phone is a spy move to avoid surveillance

cnocbui · 16-09-2018 6:09pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

According to the information which has so far been made available to the public, at 9:19 a.m. on March 4 Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia visited the graves of Skripal’s wife and son in a local cemetery in Salisbury.

Then we have a gap of around 4 hours. We assuming they returned home after visiting the graveyard.

At 1:30 p.m. they parked their car and dropped by a local pub.

The British have convinced a lot of people with this narrative, but the evidence clearly shows Skipral was meeting someone (presumably these men?) between these hours? Turning off your GPS tracking on your phone is a spy move to avoid surveillance

I only turn on GPS on my phone when I need it, because I know that having it on consumes a lot of power. I must be a spy, obviously.

UsedToWait · 16-09-2018 6:10pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

If you think my theory doesn't hold up.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mobile-phone-sergei-skripal-daughter-12248068

A source (who?) told the paper: “The most credible explanation is their phones were switched off during the morning of the day they were targeted.

"The most likely reason would be if they were going to meet someone and wanted to remain off the radar.

There you have it Skipral was trying to avoid surveillance in those hours. It obvious why the British police are not releasing images of them returning because it would expose what exactly happening not the story the British are trying to sell.

Notice how this little nugget of information from March is never talked about now.

>head explodes<

I see it clearly now.
You're right!!!
How could I ever have doubted!

cnocbui · 16-09-2018 6:14pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Do you know the police only told the hotel owner they found Novitchok in a room only a week ago? You don't find that suspicious. You don't find it odd the deadliest nerve agent leaked in a room and nobody working there got sick? I guess the hotel cleaners are immune to Novitchok get them to the lab and make a vaccine! I guess guests are immune also.

They never caught them you have two men walking on the main road not even in the estate.

Er, maybe because even the deadliest nerve agent known, isn't deadly in trace quantities. Ever heard of Botox? Deadliest poison known, yet women cheerfully pay a lot to have someone else inject the stuff into their faces. Have a guess as to why it doesn't kill them. Should only take you about a decade to work that one out.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 6:19pm

cnocbui wrote: »

I only turn on GPS on my phone when I need it, because I know that having it on consumes a lot of power. I must be a spy, obviously.

Skipral and his daughter turned off the GPS at the same time and turned back it on again at the same time. In your world that may seem plausible?

The fact they turned their phones GPS off same time it's obvious they did not want their movements tracked.

And fits the evidence since there no images of their car returning home at any time on CTV. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to put this all together.

The UK government knows this but they can not reveal this because of fear of the backlash.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 6:26pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Er, maybe because even the deadliest nerve agent known, isn't deadly in trace quantities. Ever heard of Botox? Deadliest poison known, yet women cheerfully pay a lot to have someone else inject the stuff into their faces. Have a guess as to why it doesn't kill them. Should only take you about a decade to work that one out.

Again another strawman you assuming trace quantities isn't harmful. The cleaning lady would have cleaned their room when they left and if the liquid was leaking inside the bathroom she probably would have touched it. The fact they did not even tell the hotel owner till a week ago is very odd don't you think this room should have been secured? They visited this hotel in March and hotel owners heard for the first time in September they found Novichok?

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 6:39pm

The British are hilarious they must have realised their hotel story was suspicious.

Latest Russian assassins 'helped by medic dubbed 'Dr Novichok' and fourth man' as they carried out the attack?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/russian-assassins-helped-medic-dubbed-13252046

I sure they catch Dr Novitchok soon his image on the web.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 6:48pm

If the story could get any weirder

Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov spent the night before the poisoning in a £75 twin room at the two-star City Stay Hotel in East London.

Guests at the hotel complained to staff about the pair’s “noisy sex” and the strong stench of cannabis coming from their room.

Mr Petrov and Mr Boshirov argued with hotel staff the following day over their antics before they checked out and caught the train to Salisbury.

A cleaner at the hotel was forced to spend all day cleaning their room, which has since been redecorated.

One guest claimed he recognised Mr Petrov from CCTV footage released by the police after he came face-to-face with the hitman in the hotel’s toilet.

It was a Saturday night so it’s always quieter than a weekday.

“But I could smell weed from their room.

"It was by the door and in the corridor, it was unmistakable.

"It must have been around 7 pm.

Later there was a woman in there. I think it was a prostitute.

"They were having sex. Definitely.

“I heard them having really loud sex for a long time.

"It was definitely a woman.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1018200/salisbury-novichok-poisoning-latest-sergei-skripal-update-russia-spies-nerve-agent

Dohnjoe · 16-09-2018 7:21pm

It's been pointed out multiple times by multiple posters that trace amounts of Novichok aren't necessarily toxic, that the effects of delivered amounts depend on dosage - nope doesn't go in. It's not possible that someone is this belligerent and ignorant without it being deliberate.

On a side note researchers found that during the run up to the 2016 elections, trolls would deliberately fill threads with spurious facts, arguments and conspiracies in order to dilute debate and wear out responders

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 8:57pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's been pointed out multiple times by multiple posters that trace amounts of Novichok aren't necessarily toxic, that the effects of delivered amounts depend on dosage - nope doesn't go in. It's not possible that someone is this belligerent and ignorant without it being deliberate.

On a side note researchers found that during the run up to the 2016 elections, trolls would deliberately fill threads with spurious facts, arguments and conspiracies in order to dilute debate and wear out responders

Russian propaganda these days, aka the firehose of falsehood is basically high-volume shítposting. I've posted that link often enough because it's important to know it and the paper is simple to understand.

In countries with a free press and an accountable government, facts come out and a solid narrative forms for events. There might be different linguistic slants on a narrative but we normally agree on whether or not things actually happened.

In Russia, multiple, often contradictory narratives are disseminated by officials and the state media, often in the form of baseless conspiracy theories. Their talking heads, like FOX news, do a lot of "just asking questions" and "this doesn't make sense" pieces. It's transparent but it works.

The intent behind this isn't to produce an alternate narrative, like FOX news - it's to produce multiple narratives above the factual one. It's to sow doubt. It's to make the truth unknowable in the minds of their subjects. And that's all before you even consider social media.

Kermit.de.frog · 16-09-2018 9:00pm

2 more people have taken ill in the area though unconfirmed as to whether directly related.

A thug country run by a gurrier has carried out a chemical weapons attack on a European country.

Enough grounds for war in my opinion.

igCorcaigh · 16-09-2018 9:00pm

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1041410241265631234?s=19

Hande hoche! · 16-09-2018 9:02pm

Bit mad. Doubt it's a bad dose of food poisoning.

Kermit.de.frog · 16-09-2018 9:06pm

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 9:12pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

2 more people have taken ill in the area though unconfirmed as to whether directly related.

A thug country run by a gurrier has carried out a chemical weapons attack on a European country.

Enough grounds for war in my opinion.

Unfortunately, you can't attack a nuclear armed country. Sanctions, on the other hand, are very much on the menu.

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 9:17pm

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Bit mad. Doubt it's a bad dose of food poisoning.

To be fair, it could be. People fall ill all the time but it happening in Salisbury is going to a bit more intriguing.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be novichok but I'll wait for confirmation.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 9:19pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1041410241265631234?s=19

I was thinking it was food poisoning and still could be but this very odd again.

Diner at nearby table claims couple affected were also Russians and showed same symptoms as Skripals

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salisbury-medical-incident-prezzo-high-street-wiltshire-police-poisoning-skripals-a8540566.html

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 9:21pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

To be fair, it could be. People fall ill all the time but it happening in Salisbury is going to a bit more intriguing.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be novichok but I'll wait for confirmation.

I think Porton Down needs to be raided and see if there is someone out there carrying out rogue acts.

Compare the Novichok found with their samples we know they have?

batgoat · 16-09-2018 9:26pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I think Porton Down needs to be raided and see if there is someone out there carrying out rogue acts.

Compare the Novichok found with their samples we know they have?

There's plenty of evidence that Russia did it, no such proof of Porton Down being the source. You're trying to crime solve based on google maps and streetview... It's the same sort of nonsensical arguments for 911 being an inside job or Sandy Hook being a false flag...

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 9:28pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I think Porton Down needs to be raided and see if there is someone out there carrying out rogue acts.

Compare the Novichok found with their samples we know they have?

That would have been the first thing to rule out. There's no question that it was compared to existing samples.

Regardless of that, we're well past that now. While a rogue poisoner from that lab is physically possible, we already know that two Russian "tourists" who went to see the cathedral ended up being spotted 8 minutes from the Skripal home. The Skripals lived on the opposite side of the train station. Russian tourists would have no business going there.

Kermit.de.frog · 16-09-2018 9:30pm

This is how the Russian regime goes about it's business.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/16/europe/pussy-riot-pyotr-verzilov-poisoned-berlin-intl/index.html

Where are our bunch of Irish left politicians condemning this behaviour?

Always talking about the US but I have never once heard any of them condemn Russia's behaviour...

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 9:34pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

That would have been the first thing to rule out. There's no question that it was compared to existing samples.

Regardless of that, we're well past that now. While a rogue poisoner from that lab is physically possible, we already know that two Russian "tourists" who went to see the cathedral ended up being spotted 8 minutes from the Skripal home.

We hope they did but we have no evidence for that. They were looking to blame Russia from the beginning, maybe they did not do the tests?

This is a wild ride if this turns out to be another Novitchok attack? Rumours do circulate and this could turn out be a false alarm. But if this another attack it not those Russians who are now back home. We got other people carrying out attacks?

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 9:38pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

We hope they did but we have no evidence for that. They were looking to blame Russia from the beginning, maybe they did not do the tests?

This is a wild ride if this turns out to be another Novitchok attack? Rumours do circulate and this could turn out be a false alarm. But if this another attack it not those Russians who are now back home. We got other people carrying out attacks?

This could still be food poisoning or something other than novichok. If it turns out to be novichok, then it would mean that there are others or that two people got affected by the novichok carried by the "tourists".

EDIT:

Just to add, the two affected are thought by some randomer on the internet who claims to have been in the restaurant to be Russian. Take that with a heap of salt.

Kermit.de.frog · 16-09-2018 9:49pm

https://twitter.com/bbcpetercooke/status/1041428333895065601

https://twitter.com/bbcpetercooke/status/1041428721876520960

https://twitter.com/bbcpetercooke/status/1041429146738548736

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 9:55pm

batgoat wrote: »

There's plenty of evidence that Russia did it, no such proof of Porton Down being the source. You're trying to crime solve based on google maps and streetview... It's the same sort of nonsensical arguments for 911 being an inside job or Sandy Hook being a false flag...

You kind of forgetting there is military chemical weapons facility just a few miles from the scene. It would be an obvious place for where the Novitchok came from. The Russians it claimed here had to smuggle Novitchok through UK customs. They are also pot smoking noisy guests GRU agents. Have standards slipped in the GRU? If they were sent to carry out an attack why they smoking weed and partying and annoying guests in the hotel. Would you not think they try to be lowkey and not bringing attention to their activities?

I not solving any crime, I just can see the many discrepancies that don't add up. Skipral and his daughter turned off their GPS on their mobiles for 4 hours that's just a fact. The British police have not released a single CTV image of Skipral and daughter returning home. You think it doesn't matter but you're wrong it crucial to understanding what actually happened with them.

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 10:00pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You kind of forgetting there is military chemical weapons facility just a few miles from the scene. It would be an obvious place for where the Novitchok came from. The Russians it claimed here had to smuggle Novitchok through UK customs. They are also pot smoking noisy guests GRU agents. Have standards slipped in the GRU? If they were sent to carry out an attack why they smoking weed and partying and annoying guests in the hotel. Would you not think they try to be lowkey and not bringing attention to their activities?

His point is that there is overwhelming evidence that the poisoning was done by the two tourists while there is no evidence whatsoever that this was done by lab other than the fact that it exists.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 10:04pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

His point is that there is overwhelming evidence that the poisoning was done by the two tourists while there is no evidence whatsoever that this was done by lab other than the fact that it exists.

There was overwhelming evidence to convict the Guilford 4 and Maguire seven and Birmingham six. Have you forgotten what the English did to frame those people just because they were from Ireland?

Kermit.de.frog · 16-09-2018 10:12pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

There was overwhelming evidence to convict the Guilford 4 and Maguire seven and Birmingham six. Have you forgotten what the English did to frame those people just because they were from Ireland?

What do have to say about the continued poisoning of Russia opposition leaders and murders of journalists critical of Putin?

Is that a western conspiracy too?

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 10:20pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

There was overwhelming evidence to convict the Guilford 4 and Maguire seven and Birmingham six. Have you forgotten what the English did to frame those people just because they were from Ireland?

No there wasn't. There was enough to convince a court in a country that disliked the Irish it was far from overwhelming.

If you have evidence for the many, many, oh so many theories you have proposed so far, I'd be interested in seeing it.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 10:20pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What do have to say about the continued poisoning of Russia opposition leaders and murders of journalists critical of Putin?

Is that a western conspiracy too?

Where you get that information from I bet the western media? The same Western media that printed all the lies about Iraq WMD and supported the war. Their claims Libya was about bringing freedom. The same media that does not report on Western powers arming jihadists in Syria. What about Yemen hardly ever talked about.

I don't believe a word of it Putin is murdering journalists and opposition leaders, it baseless rumours.

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 10:23pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What do have to say about the continued poisoning of Russia opposition leaders and murders of journalists critical of Putin?

Is that a western conspiracy too?

Always. It's either an inside job, a false flag or it never happened or jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams. It's anything and everything but the autocrat who does this all the time.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 10:25pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

No there wasn't. There was enough to convince a court in a country that disliked the Irish it was far from overwhelming.

If you have evidence for the many, many, oh so many theories you have proposed so far, I'd be interested in seeing it.

Spin it whatever way you like they got convicted in a UK court using evidence they said was rock solid. Those men served lengthy sentences and they did nothing wrong only they were Irish in the wrong place and right time.

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 10:26pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Where you get that information from I bet the western media? The same Western media that printed all the lies about Iraq WMD and supported the war. Their claims Libya was about bringing freedom. The same media that does not report on Western powers arming jihadists in Syria. What about Yemen hardly ever talked about.

Some papers in the US were in favour of the war but there were others which were not. Irish media was mostly against it and the UK press was around 50/50. That's what happens in countries that have a press that isn't controlled by the state. I think you're projecting the Russian media landscape onto the western one.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 10:28pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Some papers in the US were in favour of the war but there were others which were not. Irish media was mostly against it and the UK press was around 50/50. That's what happens in countries that have a press that isn't controlled by the state. I think you're projecting the Russian media landscape onto the western one.

BBC and Channel 4 are UK state news channels not sure what you even getting at there?

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 10:32pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

BBC and Channel 4 are UK state news channels not sure what you even getting at there?

Every country has a government financed media. Every country with a free media also has non-government media. Russian media is almost all controlled by the Kremlin. That's different from a country with a state media and a private media.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 10:32pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Always. It's either an inside job, a false flag or it never happened or jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams. It's anything and everything but the autocrat who does this all the time.

I don't believe Sandy Hook was a false flag I even said so in the Alex Jones channel. I actually dislike Alex Jones he done a lot of harm. He just thinks everything is a conspiracy I don't.

The smoking gun of 9/11 was always WTC7 and that was never hit by a plane.

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 10:35pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Spin it whatever way you like they got convicted in a UK court using evidence they said was rock solid. Those men served lengthy sentences and they did nothing wrong only they were Irish in the wrong place and right time.

The evidence was not rock-solid. That's why they got off.

The Skripal poisoners were recorded electronically going to a place they had no business going to and spun an unbelievable story on RT.

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 10:36pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The smoking gun of 9/11 was always WTC7 and that was never hit by a plane.

Just no. Let's keep that one to the conspiracy forum or another thread.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 10:38pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Just no. Let's keep that one to the conspiracy forum or another thread.

You brought it up but yes I agree.

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 10:41pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You brought it up but yes I agree.

That I did.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 10:45pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

The evidence was not rock-solid. That's why they got off.

The Skripal poisoners were recorded electronically going to a place they had no business going to and spun an unbelievable story on RT.

They got convicted on evidence British claimed was rock solid during court proceedings. Of course, it was not rock solid that's not the point, they still got convicted and served sentences in jail. How do you know this not another stitch up?

What are Russians not allowed to visit the UK, really? Where Guilford 4 in a place they should not have gone to?

mcmoustache · 16-09-2018 10:57pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

They got convicted on evidence British claimed was rock solid during court proceedings. Of course, it was not rock solid that's not the point, they still got convicted and served sentences in jail. How do you know this not another stitch up?

There was evidence of shenanigans in those cases early on. In this case, with the world watching in the electronic era and all the evidence pointing at Russia and nowhere else, I don't see how this is a stitch-up.

kingc · 16-09-2018 10:59pm

I highly doubt Russia had anything to do with the situation. What would Russia have to gain by poisoning British civilians? Nothing.
Now what would the West have to gain by blaming/framing Russia? They could continue the propaganda campaign painting Russia as the enemy and gain public support for military spending and interference in the Middle East. This benefits the richest people in society as they are the biggest investors in war. The war machine rolls on and the sheep are fooled again

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 11:01pm

Some photographs were taken from where this new incident took place, nothing new in regards updates though.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-prezzo-salisbury-cordoned-police-13257086

prinzeugen · 16-09-2018 11:02pm

What has 9/11 and the Guildford 4 got to do with Salisbury?

Nobody knows yet why these people fell ill today but it is prudent to take precautions as you don't know what the murdering "only here for a holiday" Russians left behind.

Kermit.de.frog · 16-09-2018 11:06pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Always. It's either an inside job, a false flag or it never happened or jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams. It's anything and everything but the autocrat who does this all the time.

You can't talk to people like that so I don't bother.

They are crazy. It's as simple as that.

Any evidence given is discarded, common sense does not exist for them and it does not matter what you say.

Cheerful Spring · 16-09-2018 11:12pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

There was evidence of shenanigans in those cases early on. In this case, with the world watching in the electronic era and all the evidence pointing at Russia and nowhere else, I don't see how this is a stitch-up.

I see holes in this narrative that have not been explained yet. The British narrative is very convincing on first appearances, but if you look closely there are discrepancies. British have you believing these men did not know Skipral? That could be true, but then you find out they turned off their mobiles both of them at the same time for 4 hours in those 4 hours those Russian men were arriving and planning out the attack allegedly. Skipral was trying to hide from being tracked. The British have even said a word on who Skipral could be meeting?

Personally, I think very odd the British police have not yet released a single image of Skipral and his daughter on the same road going home. We have a clear image of his car when he left home at 1.30pm. It just not believable this same camera would not have seen his car return again in those 4 hours when his phone was off. Or do you disagree with that?

Pero_Bueno · 16-09-2018 11:17pm

Jesus Christ, what the f*ck did these pricks do ?
Just waltz in to Salisbury and f'uck their poison everywhere ?

prinzeugen · 16-09-2018 11:34pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I see holes in this narrative that have not been explained yet. The British narrative is very convincing on first appearances, but if you look closely there are discrepancies. British have you believing these men did not know Skipral? That could be true, but then you find out they turned off their mobiles both of them at the same time for 4 hours in those 4 hours those Russian men were arriving and planning out the attack allegedly. Skipral was trying to hide from being tracked. The British have even said a word on who Skipral could be meeting?

Personally, I think very odd the British police have not yet released a single image of Skipral and his daughter on the same road going home. We have a clear image of his car when he left home at 1.30pm. It just not believable this same camera would not have seen his car return again in those 4 hours when his phone was off. Or do you disagree with that?

Why should they release CCTV? They might have info and don't want to spook anyone.

Just like they knew who poisoned Skipral but said nothing in the hope that they would return to Europe and get arrested on an EAW.

I am sure CCTV could emerge of the Russian "tourists" outside Skiprals frontdoor and the usual Putin worshipers would still be looking for "proof".

Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

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