BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

KD345 · 10-09-2018 12:13pm

ITV2 wrote: »

I attended one of the customer meets in west Dublin recently, their knowledge of Bus Connect was a bit sketchy to say the least, not good PR is my opinion.

I had a similar experience. The NTA person I was speaking with was very friendly but couldn’t answer many of my questions and called another colleague over to assist. They seemed to lack knowledge of many parts of the current network, so when questioned on new options or anything outside of the maps they struggled to give answers.

They were very welcome of the feedback and asked me to email in all of my comments and suggestions.

Wheety · 10-09-2018 12:23pm

I don't like the tagline "How about that?" on their posters.

There, I said it.

AlanG · 10-09-2018 12:24pm

I attended both the Fianna Fail and NTA meetings in Dublin 15 last week. As expected the FF meeting was ill informed and focused on the mess the is the lack of interchanges on the 261 route that is supposed to replace the 39. (a genuine concern)
Unfortunately the NTA presentation was very poor - the staff there did not know the area and gave a lot of mis information on the road layouts. They were the same staff used in all the areas and had no idea of road layouts or traffic around the Blanchardstown center.

They told me the infrastructure changes would be announced after the public consultation on the network. In D15 in particular the success or otherwise of the network is wholly dependent on the infrastructure changes. Separating them leaves an information vacuum that will be filled by worst case scenarios (given the experience of previous Dublin Bus Changes)

AlanG · 10-09-2018 12:31pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1038797050492551168
Walker disagrees

Has Walker explained how there will be a direct route form Tyrrelstown - I can't see the misinformation he is talking about on the map. Perhaps he would be better explaining how peak services from Tyrrelstown will compare before and after.

LeinsterDub · 10-09-2018 12:37pm

AlanG wrote: »

Has Walker explained how there will be a direct route form Tyrrelstown - I can't see the misinformation he is talking about on the map. Perhaps he would be better explaining how peak services from Tyrrelstown will compare before and after.

Why don't you ask him?

Daith · 10-09-2018 1:24pm

KD345 wrote: »

I had a similar experience. The NTA person I was speaking with was very friendly but couldn’t answer many of my questions and called another colleague over to assist. They seemed to lack knowledge of many parts of the current network, so when questioned on new options or anything outside of the maps they struggled to give answers.

They were very welcome of the feedback and asked me to email in all of my comments and suggestions.

Their job is to advise generally and try and get the public to make a suggestions on the website.

Problem is they're against groups who think the plan is the finalised one so it looks the the NTA people haven't a clue.

NTA should cop on by now or change their message. There's probably more people on this forum who could explain the changes better than the NTA people at these events.

CatInABox · 10-09-2018 1:25pm

AlanG wrote: »

They told me the infrastructure changes would be announced after the public consultation on the network. In D15 in particular the success or otherwise of the network is wholly dependent on the infrastructure changes. Separating them leaves an information vacuum that will be filled by worst case scenarios (given the experience of previous Dublin Bus Changes)

No point starting work on infrastructure changes until the plan is finalised, as they'd be working on things that may change.

AlanG wrote: »

Has Walker explained how there will be a direct route form Tyrrelstown - I can't see the misinformation he is talking about on the map. Perhaps he would be better explaining how peak services from Tyrrelstown will compare before and after.

He's stated that all of the areas mentioned except Tyrrelstown will have a direct connection.

hmmm · 10-09-2018 1:43pm

CatInABox wrote: »

No point starting work on infrastructure changes until the plan is finalised, as they'd be working on things that may change.

The problem (I think) is that there is an assumption that the plan will happen, and that there can be some grand reveal later in 2019. This is project planning from the 1980s.

In the age of social media, fake news and shouty politicians trying to make a name for themselves, this doesn't work for politically sensitive projects where it can be killed before ever getting off the ground. I'm not an expert on this by any means, but a bit more social media savvy wouldn't be amiss - get spokespeople on social media, get a political sponsor (has anyone seen a Minister recently?), get some glossy sales brochures showing connections to a monorail where smiley happy commuters are served champagne etc. It doesn't even matter if it is stretching the truth, only the nerds on places like this will notice

Hurrache · 10-09-2018 1:48pm

AlanG wrote: »

Has Walker explained how there will be a direct route form Tyrrelstown - I can't see the misinformation he is talking about on the map. Perhaps he would be better explaining how peak services from Tyrrelstown will compare before and after.

I saw posters from Jack Chambers about a meeting that he's organising for this evening concerning the changes around that area. With the proposed new houses to be built in that general area, as well as the numerous business parks, it does look like much attention wasn't paid to there.

AlekSmart · 10-09-2018 1:57pm

hmmm wrote: »

The problem (I think) is that there is an assumption that the plan will happen, and that there can be some grand reveal later in 2019. This is project planning from the 1980s.

In the age of social media, fake news and shouty politicians trying to make a name for themselves, this doesn't work for politically sensitive projects where it can be killed before ever getting off the ground. I'm not an expert on this by any means, but a bit more social media savvy wouldn't be amiss - get spokespeople on social media, get a political sponsor (has anyone seen a Minister recently?), get some glossy sales brochures showing connections to a monorail where smiley happy commuters are served champagne etc. It doesn't even matter if it is stretching the truth, only the nerds on places like this will notice

For me,that would be a good start.

Problem is,however,the launch of Busconnects needed to be a Hollywood Blockbuster affair,with the full resources of the NTA studio deployed.

Instead,we have had Jarret Walker himself attempting to deal with questions which are outside his remit,particularly on the Infrastructural side.

The "Parallell Project" regarding the Infrastructure,is,in typically Irish fashion,glossed over by the NTA,as it is more than aware of the necessity to "engage" with Local Government,traditionally the lair of the Flath Earth Society in Ireland.

The Infrastructural elements required by Busconnects are,on reflection,vast and straddle so many areas jealously guarded by a phalanx of senior Civil Servants and bewigged Gentlemen,traditionally highly averse to change,particularly if it impinges on Private Property.

I am increasingly of the opinion that the NTA are NOT the agency to progress Busconnects. :mad:

Annasopra · 10-09-2018 2:00pm

ITV2 wrote: »

I attended one of the customer meets in west Dublin recently, their knowledge of Bus Connect was a bit sketchy to say the least, not good PR is my opinion.

Same here. I found the NTA reps had really poor local knowledge and hadnt a clue what was proposed or why it was proposed.

OldMrBrennan83 · 10-09-2018 2:01pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Yes, for another wedge issue, not engaging with the facts which are that BusConnects provides more frequent services that get people further for cheaper than they currently do. No real engagement with facts just creating fear and anger, no solutions just scaremongering.

What I've got from people is that they don't really know what's going to happen. If busconnects had a decent marketing department and people who could engage with real people then there probably wouldn't have been a need for even the first public meeting.

AlekSmart · 10-09-2018 2:05pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Same here. I found the NTA reps had really poor local knowledge and hadnt a clue what was proposed or why it was proposed.

Some might suggest that it was deliberate.

Some of the Official Reps were allocated Events far removed from their own localities,almost as if the NTA were intent on appearing lacklustre.

Busconnects really is taking on a decidely less than healthy hue....I wonder if they could interest Micheal O'Leary

?

MJohnston · 10-09-2018 2:11pm

Patww79 wrote: »

What I've got from people is that they don't really know what's going to happen. If busconnects had a decent marketing department and people who could engage with real people then there probably wouldn't have been a need for even the first public meeting.

I think you're being massively naive there. No amount of marketing or PR was going to help BusConnects against the pure and simple fact that it is changing the bus network.

Any change to buses, no matter how useful and necessary, will always be swamped in hysteria.

OldMrBrennan83 · 10-09-2018 2:15pm

MJohnston wrote: »

I think you're being massively naive there. No amount of marketing or PR was going to help BusConnects against the pure and simple fact that it is changing the bus network.

Any change to buses, no matter how useful and necessary, will always be swamped in hysteria.

Nah, there's some truth in what you're saying but it could be infinitely better.

schemingbohemia · 10-09-2018 2:22pm

Patww79 wrote: »

What I've got from people is that they don't really know what's going to happen. If busconnects had a decent marketing department and people who could engage with real people then there probably wouldn't have been a need for even the first public meeting.

They're having public information sessions all over the County! The NBRU sponsored mis-information sessions run with PBPP/SOLIDARITY/WHATEVERYOU'REHAVINGYOURSELFTHISWEEK are deliberately not giving the full story, they are spreading lies about services. This has been followed by FF doing the same thing.
The marketing and engagement should be better from the NTA and their PR has been awful - but when you're fighting against fake news and information being peddled about by people who are only interested in votes and not in making their constituents lives better it's very difficult. It's particularly difficult for the NTA to call out politician's lies.

MJohnston · 10-09-2018 2:29pm

Patww79 wrote: »

Nah, there's some truth in what you're saying but it could be infinitely better.

Whether the information distribution could have been better or not is a completely different question. You claimed that with better info available to the public there wouldn't have been a need for public meetings. I think that's just never going to be true, no matter how good and how much information is supplied.

salmocab · 10-09-2018 3:55pm

I think at some stage a flyer needs to go in every door in Dublin, a localized one explaining what you currently have locally, what your getting and the honest pros and cons of the change.
My area is losing a direct bus to town and even allowing for maybe being a bit quicker people are going to think I’d be happier sitting on a bus for 10 extra minutes than having to change halfway and probably having to stand the rest of the way.

AlanG · 10-09-2018 4:30pm

CatInABox wrote: »

No point starting work on infrastructure changes until the plan is finalised, as they'd be working on things that may change.
.

The point of holding a public consultation is that things may change - the plan for Dublin 15 is rubbish without significant infrastructure changes yet they pretend they haven't got details of these yet. In the absence of details of the infrastructure changes people can only give feedback on the network changes with the current infrastructure. This will be negative feedback and then those who place hope above experience complain about the negativity.

A plan without infrastructure is not a plan - a kid could have drawn it. I actually support changes to the network but I have no faith that infrastructure changes including CPOs will follow on from network changes, if it is going to happen it should all happen together.

AlanG · 10-09-2018 4:37pm

Daith wrote: »

Their job is to advise generally and try and get the public to make a suggestions on the website.

Problem is they're against groups who think the plan is the finalised one so it looks the the NTA people haven't a clue.

NTA should cop on by now or change their message. There's probably more people on this forum who could explain the changes better than the NTA people at these events.

The reps in Blanchardstown center were telling people they could hop off the 261, go around the corner and get on the B route on the N3 near the M50. When I pointed out that the B route was running on a dual carriageway about 20 meters below the 261 bridge with no access they said they didn't realise that an passed me onto the expert in the team - he didn't realise either until we opened google maps. That was at 7:45 so they had been giving people the wrong information for almost 6 hours at that stage.

AlekSmart · 10-09-2018 4:39pm

AlanG wrote: »

The point of holding a public consultation is that things may change - the plan for Dublin 15 is rubbish without significant infrastructure changes yet they pretend they haven't got details of these yet. In the absence of details of the infrastructure changes people can only give feedback on the network changes with the current infrastructure. This will be negative feedback and then those who place hope above experience complain about the negativity.

A plan without infrastructure is not a plan - a kid could have drawn it. I actually support changes to the network but I have no faith that infrastructure changes including CPOs will follow on from network changes, if it is going to happen it should all happen together.

Got it in ONE.

I have a high degree of faith in Jarrett Walker and his committment to his Plan.

Sadly,I have zero faith in the senior echelons of the National Transport Authority,whom,I suspect will eventually compromise the Busconnects plan so much that Mr Walker will disown it and walk away.

As it is currently strtuctured,the NTA is comprised of mediocre career Civil Servants,supported by a retinue of transferees from Irish Local Administration.

This boxed-set will not end well.

Dublinstiofán · 10-09-2018 6:26pm

I attended one of these ‘Consultation’ days. There wasn’t much consulting going on, nothing was being recorded at all which is not meaningful consultation! They’ll railroad the whole thing through without the supporting infrastructure and try to fix it as and when it suits them. They will save money and we’ll be paying with our time waiting to change busses.

I’m certainly not impressed anyway. For me to get from Templeogue to Rathmines it looks like I will have to walk for 15 - 20 minutes (to one of two stops) and change bus at least two to three times to get onto the ‘A Spine’. The 15a gets me directly to Rathmines in 15 minutes at the moment. How does this constitute progress when the 15a bus is highly subscribed to and has been perfected over many years? The mind boggles!

Sierra Oscar · 10-09-2018 6:56pm

The NTA's publicity of these changes seems to be a bit of a shambles. Apparently they aren't sending people to the public meetings that have been organised despite being invited to do so.

It's important that the misinformation at these meetings is challenged head on. It hasn't been to date and the opposition to the changes has been steadily increasing as a result. Walker shouldn't have to defend the proposals single-handedly.

https://twitter.com/taniadoylecllr/status/1039207052189556736

Dardania · 10-09-2018 7:05pm

I’ve called NTA’s head of pr out on this a few times on Twitter. Quite frustrating to see his refusal to deal with the misinformation. I get that it’s tough to deal with walking into a room of people actively against your ideas / the ideas you must sell, but still that’s surely the job.

Peregrine · 10-09-2018 7:22pm

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

I attended one of these ‘Consultation’ days. There wasn’t much consulting going on, nothing was being recorded at all which is not meaningful consultation!

"Consultation" days because they weren't consultation days. They were information days.

You don't seem to understand how public consultations work. There isn't going to be someone standing there with clipboard to write down your thoughts. It's up to you to submit your thoughts to the consultation process. Details can be found on the website and at the imformation sessions.

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

They’ll railroad the whole thing through without the supporting infrastructure and try to fix it as and when it suits them. They will save money and we’ll be paying with our time waiting to change busses.

Save money? The NTA is not the cabinet. Why would the NTA not spend money on something when the money has been allocated to them?

You're showing a fundamental lack of understanding of how the whole process works.

devnull · 10-09-2018 8:03pm

NTA have confirmed that they now intend to extend the 90 minute transfer fare onto commuter services out to Maynooth as well as DART services, which will mean a big saving for people using bus + Maynooth line.

https://twitter.com/dermotog/status/1039217278536044544

jd · 10-09-2018 8:23pm

Also Hazelhatch on the Kildare Line

https://twitter.com/dermotog/status/1039231329815224321

devnull · 10-09-2018 8:26pm

jd wrote: »

Also Hazelhatch on the Kildare Line

https://twitter.com/dermotog/status/1039231329815224321

Reckon that will push the price of the ticket up though to include the commuter trains.

I know they were talking about between €2.20 and €2.60 or so, but I reckon you will probably be looking at €2.60 itself now.

CatInABox · 10-09-2018 8:30pm

devnull wrote: »

Reckon that will push the price of the ticket up though to include the commuter trains.

I know they were talking about between €2.20 and €2.60 or so, but I reckon you will probably be looking at €2.60 itself now.

It's the right thing to do though, as much as I'd like the price to be lower.

Dublinstiofán · 11-09-2018 8:26am

Peregrine wrote: »

"Consultation" days because they weren't consultation days. They were information days.

Exactly my point, why were they information days when they should have been consultation days! Nothing is gained unless meaningful consultation takes place.

Peregrine wrote: »

You don't seem to understand how public consultations work. There isn't going to be someone standing there with clipboard to write down your thoughts. It's up to you to submit your thoughts to the consultation process. Details can be found on the website and at the imformation sessions.

I know exactly how consultation works having being involved in over 50 of them in the last few years. I can tell you that what the NTA are doing isn’t an effective method of consultation. I have submitted my comments through the proper channels. Also sometimes what is required is somebody writing down what people’s thoughts are so the information isn’t lost. If you worked one of these events you would know that if you met 300 people in the day and have no record of what any of them said it’s a waste of a day!

Peregrine wrote: »

Save money? The NTA is not the cabinet. Why would the NTA not spend money on something when the money has been allocated to them? You're showing a fundamental lack of understand of how the whole process works.

If you think this system isn’t being developed to save money in the long run, I think that it is you who has the fundamental lack of understanding

CatInABox · 11-09-2018 8:33am

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

If you think this system isn’t being developed to save money, I think that it is you who has the fundamental lack of understanding

BusConnects will require more buses, more drivers and more hours from those drivers, along with the required infrastructure. We'll end up with a more efficient bus network, but there's no part of this plan that will result in money "saved".

Dublinstiofán · 11-09-2018 8:49am

CatInABox wrote: »

BusConnects will require more buses, more drivers and more hours from those drivers, along with the required infrastructure. We'll end up with a more efficient bus network, but there's no part of this plan that will result in money "saved".

I’m talking about in the long run. They’ll spend like lunatics to get it railroaded through on consultants and everything else. Personally I doubt more drivers will be required especially since a large number of the routes serve north and south of the city meaning one driver can serve two of the old routes.

devnull · 11-09-2018 8:50am

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

I’m talking about in the long run. They’ll spend like lunatics to get it railroaded through on consultants and everything else. Personally I doubt more drivers will be required especially since a large number of the routes serve north and south of the city meaning one driver can serve two of the old routes.

You do realise that there has been a large amount of cross city routes for years at this point?

Dublinstiofán · 11-09-2018 8:52am

devnull wrote: »

You do realise that there has been a large amount of cross city routes for years at this point?

I do but there looks to be an expansion of those from what I’ve seen

L1011 · 11-09-2018 8:57am

This will allow more services to be run for less than tacking them on to the Victorian network we have now. They'll spend less additional money but that isn't the same as saving money

MJohnston · 11-09-2018 8:59am

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

I do but there looks to be an expansion of those from what I’ve seen

Regardless of whether or not that's true (and I'm not sure it is), the absolute number of buses making journeys is increasing, even though the number of routes is going down. You can't achieve that without more drivers.

devnull · 11-09-2018 9:00am

Plus the fleet will increase by approx 100 buses this year alone, with the increase of another 50-60 expected next year.

AlmightyCushion · 11-09-2018 9:35am

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

I’m talking about in the long run. They’ll spend like lunatics to get it railroaded through on consultants and everything else. Personally I doubt more drivers will be required especially since a large number of the routes serve north and south of the city meaning one driver can serve two of the old routes.

They're increasing the amount of buses in use this year. The buses don't drive themselves so this will require more drivers.

Wheety · 11-09-2018 9:38am

salmocab wrote: »

My area is losing a direct bus to town and even allowing for maybe being a bit quicker people are going to think I’d be happier sitting on a bus for 10 extra minutes than having to change halfway and probably having to stand the rest of the way.

This was my point a few weeks ago, I think it was in this thread. The new 14 will start at Liffey Valley and will go through Palmerstown and Chapilizod towards the city centre.

People in Chapilizod are up in arms as this will now be their only bus. The buses are currently full to capacity before Chapilizod. We're being told that the people getting on the 14 before Chapilizod will simply hop off on the N4 and get a bypass bus.

You have to be very naive to believe that will actually happen. If someone has a seat on the 14, they will stay where they are, especially if it's wet and cold out. It's not like the bypass saves you a huge amount of time, maybe 10 or 15 minutes.

antoinolachtnai · 11-09-2018 10:03am

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

They're increasing the amount of buses in use this year. The buses don't drive themselves so this will require more drivers.

According to the figures, the new patterns will use the existing drivers and vehicles more intensively. If this can be done, the unit cost (cost per vehicle km) will indeed fall.

CatInABox · 11-09-2018 10:24am

Wheety wrote: »

You have to be very naive to believe that will actually happen. If someone has a seat on the 14, they will stay where they are, especially if it's wet and cold out. It's not like the bypass saves you a huge amount of time, maybe 10 or 15 minutes.

To save 10 to 15 minutes, I'd definitely change bus, particularly on a spine where the buses are going to come once every three minutes. 10 to 15 minutes might not be huge to you, but it certainly is to me, and countless others.

CatInABox · 11-09-2018 10:25am

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

According to the figures, the new patterns will use the existing drivers and vehicles more intensively. If this can be done, the unit cost (cost per vehicle km) will indeed fall.

Yes, we'll end up with a more efficient service, but in terms of money being spent, it's only going to go up. Cost per passenger will definitely go down, that's one of the stated goals of the BusConnects proposal.

Podge_irl · 11-09-2018 10:33am

Wheety wrote: »

This was my point a few weeks ago, I think it was in this thread. The new 14 will start at Liffey Valley and will go through Palmerstown and Chapilizod towards the city centre.

People in Chapilizod are up in arms as this will now be their only bus. The buses are currently full to capacity before Chapilizod. We're being told that the people getting on the 14 before Chapilizod will simply hop off on the N4 and get a bypass bus.

You have to be very naive to believe that will actually happen. If someone has a seat on the 14, they will stay where they are, especially if it's wet and cold out. It's not like the bypass saves you a huge amount of time, maybe 10 or 15 minutes.

Look at the 14 route though. It makes no sense for anyone to get on the 14 in the first place unless they are going to Chapelizod or Islandbridge. There will certainly be no one getting on it at Liffey Valley just to go into town.

I think you are naive to think that people won't value getting places 10-15 mins faster. Indeed, if you informed people they were all going to take 10-15 mins longer to get everywhere there would be uproar. It is a sizeable chunk of time.

MJohnston · 11-09-2018 10:40am

10-15 minutes would be a massive time saving for a journey that should only take around 30 minutes total.

salmocab · 11-09-2018 10:58am

Don’t know the routes ye are talking about but if it’s a choice between taking 30 minutes by a direct route but you risk standing or possibly not even getting on the first bus past or spending 40/45 minutes on a bus you can get on and get a seat in the first few stops lots will pick the latter.
I think an important thing is where you have the spine routes the wait times must be minimum so the various sub routes are timed so that your actually waiting say 7 minutes tops instead of 14 and two arrive together. Also the capacity must be there that people aren’t being driven past.

CatInABox · 11-09-2018 11:01am

salmocab wrote: »

Don’t know the routes ye are talking about but if it’s a choice between taking 30 minutes by a direct route but you risk standing or possibly not even getting on the first bus past or spending 40/45 minutes on a bus you can get on and get a seat in the first few stops lots will pick the latter.
I think an important thing is where you have the spine routes the wait times must be minimum so the various sub routes are timed so that your actually waiting say 7 minutes tops instead of 14 and two arrive together. Also the capacity must be there that people aren’t being driven past.

Peak time on the spine will be 3 minutes, giving an average wait time of 90 seconds.

Wheety · 11-09-2018 11:07am

The reason why I'm taking this point of view is because I see it every morning. Maybe not everyone's time is as important as yours. Some leave the house earlier than necessary and can take their time getting in to work.

Today, the 26 arrived at the 2nd bus stop on the N4 (at the oval) and the majority of the people waiting got on even though there was a 25A, 25B, 67X and 51D (all bypass buses) due within 5 minutes, the first 2 due within a minute. You could see the buses further up the road. This was around 12-15 people. Bus was stopped at the first N4 stop at the footbridge for a while too, obviously letting people on there too. They weren't too bothered about the extra time it takes going through Chapilizod and Islandbridge to get into the city centre.

hmmm · 11-09-2018 11:16am

MJohnston wrote: »

10-15 minutes would be a massive time saving for a journey that should only take around 30 minutes total.

10-15 minutes best case. Do you think people are going to get off a bus in bad weather, queue at a location which potentially is exposed to the elements, and take their chances at getting on another bus?

Apparently we are supposed to trust our transport planners will have the infrastructure in place at the time this plan is launched, and we won't all be standing out in the rain waiting for non-existent buses.

The more I think about this plan, the less I like it. I don't trust our transport planners, certainly not after the cross-city shambles and the way bus passengers were treated, and I'm not alone in this.

MJohnston · 11-09-2018 11:37am

hmmm wrote: »

10-15 minutes best case. Do you think people are going to get off a bus in bad weather, queue at a location which potentially is exposed to the elements, and take their chances at getting on another bus?

Apparently we are supposed to trust our transport planners will have the infrastructure in place at the time this plan is launched, and we won't all be standing out in the rain waiting for non-existent buses.

The more I think about this plan, the less I like it. I don't trust our transport planners, certainly not after the cross-city shambles and the way bus passengers were treated, and I'm not alone in this.

As has been pointed out - if they're getting on Liffey Valley, they're not going to have any good reason for getting on a 14 bus anyway, other than because they are specifically going to somewhere within Chapelizod. From LV, they can get the S4 route, or, more importantly, the entire C spine (which has a 3 minute peak frequency).

This 14 + Chapelizod issue is a complete non-issue, from the looks of the facts.

Wheety · 11-09-2018 12:01pm

MJohnston wrote: »

As has been pointed out - if they're getting on Liffey Valley, they're not going to have any good reason for getting on a 14 bus anyway, other than because they are specifically going to somewhere within Chapelizod. From LV, they can get the S4 route, or, more importantly, the entire C spine (which has a 3 minute peak frequency).

This 14 + Chapelizod issue is a complete non-issue, from the looks of the facts.

Forget about Liffey Valley. The 26 can fill up at the first stop in Palmerstown some mornings.

I love how people who don't live in the area can say it's a non issue and what are these facts you speak of?

Some mornings I've gotten a bus which goes through Chapilizod and there are more than 20 people waiting at the bus stop at the school. There are 3 Chapilizod stops before the school too.

BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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