How to improve Dublin Bus Services in 2017

hmmm · 12-01-2017 12:01pm

sharper wrote: »

People wanting to get to Maynooth or Celbridge are left standing in the city centre hoping the next one in half an hour might at least have somewhere to stand while half empty ones are continuing on from Liffey Valley.

What do other countries do to address this problem?

It's great for people taking a short trip that there are 20 different buses to choose from, but it's unfair on the people who are going further and might only have 1 bus they can get.

Bray Head · 12-01-2017 12:13pm

hmmm wrote: »

sharper wrote: »

People wanting to get to Maynooth or Celbridge are left standing in the city centre hoping the next one in half an hour might at least have somewhere to stand while half empty ones are continuing on from Liffey Valley.

What do other countries do to address this problem?

They generally have much less bus stops entirely. And shorter, more frequent routes which allows for switching.
Also when you have clear maps at all bus stops and on buses then it is much easier to run express type services as the rules are clear to passengers.
It seemed madness to me that the 84X was not 'pick-up only' until at least Foxrock when I took it regularly 15 years ago. But it seems it is still the case today.

StreetLight · 12-01-2017 1:05pm

The timing of the Lucan Road buses is all wrong.

On plenty of occasions in Parkgate Street, I have observed a 66 or 67 going out to Maynooth, stuffed. Then about 5 minutes later a 66A or 66B with only a quarter load, even though it's covering a lot of the ground of a 66/67. Two minutes later a 25 or 26 then flies by carrying a only a handful.

sharper · 12-01-2017 1:49pm

hmmm wrote: »

What do other countries do to address this problem?

It's great for people taking a short trip that there are 20 different buses to choose from, but it's unfair on the people who are going further and might only have 1 bus they can get.

I don't know what other countries do, solutions have been mentioned by other posters.

If the busses had proper tag on/tag off it would give the NTA an enormous amount of usage data which could be used to optimise routes. They could then see people using longer routes for short journeys while the short routes that serve similar areas are half full.

The Xs used to discourage people from using them for short hops with the fare structure but the range of ticketing options makes it ineffective now.

Bray Head · 12-01-2017 2:16pm

sharper wrote: »

I don't know what other countries do, solutions have been mentioned by other posters.

If the busses had proper tag on/tag off it would give the NTA an enormous amount of usage data which could be used to optimise routes. They could then see people using longer routes for short journeys while the short routes that serve similar areas are half full.

I agree, but with pay-the-driver and use of middle doors tagging off as well as on would just slow the system down even more.

There are plenty of cities which collect less data than DB (because lots of people are on monthly tickets) yet still manage to have a better organised bus network.

You can gather the same data pretty much as effectively with the occasional census and surveys. I have no idea if DB carry these out.

sharper;102244914

The Xs used to discourage people from using them for short hops with the fare structure but the range of ticketing options makes it ineffective now.

Completely agree. Some incentive structure should be in place.

Dyr · 12-01-2017 2:27pm

bigredone wrote: »

Sunday start times, maybe a few here use the bus early sunday to get to work, but the fact is the rest of the population dont start to go out till arout 11, same on a saturday. It would be a waste of money putting on early service.
.

if public transport has a future then it has to provide a viable alternative to car ownership

Not getting out of the scratcher at weekends won't do that

Sooner we're using fully automated systems and certain stakeholders go the way of the dodo the better

Vic_08 · 12-01-2017 3:26pm

hmmm wrote: »

What do other countries do to address this problem?

It's great for people taking a short trip that there are 20 different buses to choose from, but it's unfair on the people who are going further and might only have 1 bus they can get.

Most longer Dublin Bus routes used to have minimum fares on peak departures from the city.

Short journey passengers could still use them but they'd have to pay the higher fare to the outer suburbs.

This is no longer effective with Leap capping, reduced fare bands and of course the ubiquitous free travel pass holders.

The only viable solution now is to make them limited stop or pick-up only for part of the route, not something DB has ever done well, even the X routes don't really work well for discouraging short journeys.

Vic_08 · 12-01-2017 3:30pm

Bambi wrote: »

if public transport has a future then it has to provide a viable alternative to car ownership

Not getting out of the scratcher at weekends won't do that

Sooner we're using fully automated systems and certain stakeholders go the way of the dodo the better

If that is a swipe at the staff then you are wide of the mark, there is no resistance to extra Sunday working from staff or unions. Sunday is OT rates so there are plenty of drivers only to happy to get more Sunday shifts which are scarce enough as it is.

end of the road · 12-01-2017 3:47pm

Bambi wrote: »

if public transport has a future then it has to provide a viable alternative to car ownership

Not getting out of the scratcher at weekends won't do that

Sooner we're using fully automated systems and certain stakeholders go the way of the dodo the better

the "certain stakeholders" will still be existing automated systems or not. automated systems will still call for people in operations and on board supervisors.

BonnieSituation · 12-01-2017 4:33pm

Using someone's observation of the Lucan road buses. Perhaps limiting stopping to city centre and then Liffey valley between 4 and 7 would discourage palmerstown and Chapelizod residents from using them. This in conjunction with only using the N4 at these times And expanding the 26 would solve that issue.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 12-01-2017 9:57pm

Vic_08 wrote: »

If that is a swipe at the staff then you are wide of the mark, there is no resistance to extra Sunday working from staff or unions. Sunday is OT rates so there are plenty of drivers only to happy to get more Sunday shifts which are scarce enough as it is.

I think we need to get rid of Sunday overtime to get more Sunday shifts.

BonnieSituation · 12-01-2017 11:18pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think we need to get rid of Sunday overtime to get more Sunday shifts.

I think Dublin Bus staff should consider themselves lucky to have a job and perhaps minimum wage is all they're worth.

While we're at it, uniforms should be made out of sack cloth.

lucernarian · 12-01-2017 11:42pm

Bray Head wrote: »

I agree, but with pay-the-driver and use of middle doors tagging off as well as on would just slow the system down even more.

I can't understand this part at all. By doubling the entry and exit points on the bus, how would it slow down things?

Also, I suspect the time taken to tag off would be more than offset by the saved time in boarding, owing to the slow speed of the existing wayfarer.

Also, I'd think there's a lot to be said for tagging off and on at bus stops, with an additional "tagged on status" check when boarding to ensure passengers have paid. Then you get the best of both worlds, and no need to have exit validators that slow disembarkation. Setting that up at every bus stop would cost a fortune though

Vic_08 · 13-01-2017 12:28am

lucernarian wrote: »

I can't understand this part at all. By doubling the entry and exit points on the bus, how would it slow down things?

Also, I suspect the time taken to tag off would be more than offset by the saved time in boarding, owing to the slow speed of the existing wayfarer.

Also, I'd think there's a lot to be said for tagging off and on at bus stops, with an additional "tagged on status" check when boarding to ensure passengers have paid. Then you get the best of both worlds, and no need to have exit validators that slow disembarkation. Setting that up at every bus stop would cost a fortune though

And sadly they would be completely exposed to the usual element that make providing any unattended public amenity a chore. In certain areas you wouldn't be able to keep the things operational.

Kyleboy · 13-01-2017 6:19am

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think we need to get rid of Sunday overtime to get more Sunday shifts.

Why don't you get them faster buses and pay them minimum wage?

BrianG23 · 13-01-2017 7:03am

An emergency axe should be available to passengers in distress of knack bags

StreetLight · 13-01-2017 11:28am

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think we need to get rid of Sunday overtime to get more Sunday shifts.

I think people who have a Monday to Friday attitude should have to work a Sunday too, free of charge. :rolleyes:

RainMakerToo · 13-01-2017 9:14pm

It'd be nice if they realised the 1970s idea of "Rush hour" doesn't really exist anymore, but all the normal route timetables seem to assume everybody goes to work between 8 and 9 and comes home between 5 and 6

Slutmonkey57b · 13-01-2017 11:08pm

Traffic patterns prove they do. It just lasts 2 hours now instead of 1.

D8 boy · 14-01-2017 12:04am

For medium-large cities, flat fare systems do not generate as much revenue as a zonal or graduated fare system. Large cities with a flat fare typically provide much higher subsidy for their bus systems. For example, in 2007, the subsidy to bus services in Brussels, which has a flat fare, was 68% of costs, compared with 29% in Dublin.

However, a graduated fare system does not have to mean driver interaction.
In Dutch cities, the buses have a graduated fare system using a system similar to the Luas or trains it Dublin. You tag on when you board and tag off at the exit when you alight; the system deducts a standard fare when you board, calculates the appropriate fare when you leave and rebates the card as required. The validators seem much faster than the ones in Dublin, BTW. Only passengers without a Leap card equivalent have to go near the driver, who can issue a rather pricey 1 hour ticket.

For Dublin if all buses were 2 door and proper London/Amsterdam-speed validators were applied at the foot and centre doors, the process could be changed to get passengers to tag on and off as in the Netherlands. The current graduated structure could be retained and a simple (high) cash fare charged for the odd (in all senses) passenger who does not have a Leap card. All single door buses will need to be replaced eventually as will the current validators so the net capital costs would be low.

Dyr · 14-01-2017 12:17am

D8 boy wrote: »

For example, in 2007, the subsidy to bus services in Brussels, which has a flat fare, was 68% of costs, compared with 29% in Dublin.

Is that including all subsidies, like purchase of vehicles?

devnull · 14-01-2017 12:31am

In a fair few European countries vehicles are funded out of subsidy directly, whereas in Ireland they are funded in addition to subsidy.

Van.Bosch · 14-01-2017 1:06am

Install cameras in buses which take pictures of cars in bus lanes..

OscarMIlde · 14-01-2017 3:53am

As a 66/67 bus user, they really need to update this route. It is far too long, especially at rush hour. It should either bypass Chapelizod at peak times or bypass Lucan village, preferably both. At least half an hour could be knocked off the journey by this measure. If necessary have the 66a or 66b service these places, but not the buses travelling all the way from Maynooth.

BrianG23 · 14-01-2017 4:06am

OscarMIlde wrote: »

As a 66/67 bus user, they really need to update this route. It is far too long, especially at rush hour. It should either bypass Chapelizod at peak times or bypass Lucan village, preferably both. At least half an hour could be knocked off the journey by this measure. If necessary have the 66a or 66b service these places, but not the buses travelling all the way from Maynooth.

I remember this bus used to regularly skip the intel stop due to max capacity. Nothing worse than seeing a bus drive by 3 days in a row. Then the leixlip trains are delayed every other day. **** I hate public TP in Ireland. The worst of it is when you have to commute through connolly grabbing a second bus/train. My god do those inconsistent times really show.

OscarMIlde · 14-01-2017 4:06am

Yep, I travel from Belfield to Maynooth. Plenty of times I have been working late, missed the 66, been unable to get on a 67 as it is full, and have seen an empty 26, 66b show up a few minutes later, no doubt able to serve most of the same passengers who took my spot on the 67.

defrule · 14-01-2017 4:15am

A place I went to recently had an express interchange station. It was a bit like a toll area on the highway. X buses would stop there and you can switch to another X bus free.

The idea was that you might being trying to get from A to D but there is not X bus for it. So you take X bus A to B, get off at the interchange midway and go on the next C to D bus that arrives for free.

sharper · 14-01-2017 11:38am

OscarMIlde wrote: »

As a 66/67 bus user, they really need to update this route. It is far too long, especially at rush hour. It should either bypass Chapelizod at peak times or bypass Lucan village, preferably both. At least half an hour could be knocked off the journey by this measure. If necessary have the 66a or 66b service these places, but not the buses travelling all the way from Maynooth.

I got the 67 from the city centre yesterday at around 4:10 and got into Maynooth about 20 minutes before the 66x leaving the city centre at 5pm.

Why did I get the 67 instead of the 66? Because I was tracking the arrival time of the 66 using the app. It went from "arriving in 13 minutes" to "arriving in 5 minutes" so I had to leave work in a rush. Then from across the bridge I saw it pull up to the stop and leave while it was at "arriving in 4 minutes". In the space of two minutes it went from "Don't even bother going to the stop yet" to "It's gone".

Meanwhile the 67 that followed counted down to "arriving in 4 minutes" and stayed there for 5 minutes. I was as well to leave work when I'd planned to and go have a coffee until 5pm.

The worst part of the real time tracking isn't that it's wrong but that it never improves. Busses that didn't track two years ago still don't. Arrival times vary all over the place and if you know a route well you can usually estimate it's arrival time yourself better than the supposedly real time system will tell you.

BrianG23 · 14-01-2017 11:59am

sharper wrote: »

I got the 67 from the city centre yesterday at around 4:10 and got into Maynooth about 20 minutes before the 66x leaving the city centre at 5pm.

Why did I get the 67 instead of the 66? Because I was tracking the arrival time of the 66 using the app. It went from "arriving in 13 minutes" to "arriving in 5 minutes" so I had to leave work in a rush. Then from across the bridge I saw it pull up to the stop and leave while it was at "arriving in 4 minutes". In the space of two minutes it went from "Don't even bother going to the stop yet" to "It's gone".

Meanwhile the 67 that followed counted down to "arriving in 4 minutes" and stayed there for 5 minutes. I was as well to leave work when I'd planned to and go have a coffee until 5pm.

The worst part of the real time tracking isn't that it's wrong but that it never improves. Busses that didn't track two years ago still don't. Arrival times vary all over the place and if you know a route well you can usually estimate it's arrival time yourself better than the supposedly real time system will tell you.

Yeah its a real pain in the whole. Its happened to me way to many times. On another note i've had trains arriving both late and EARLY. 4-5 minutes early. How does that happen.

Arriving at a bus and/or train is just flipping a coin. Don't expect it to actually follow a schedule.

Art(h)ur · 14-01-2017 8:09pm

D8 boy wrote: »

flat fare systems do not generate as much revenue as a zonal or graduated fare system.

Not sure how the fare structure and the farebox recovery are connected. I'm not familiar with the detils of the Brussels example you've quoted but I would suspect any of the following to play a part:

- low demand and high supply (an unsuccessful attempt to bring in more passengers by high frequencies)?
- flat fare deliberately set at a level to encourage more passengers?
- high levels of fare evasion?

In fact, I would expect a flat fare structure to discourage people as if you're journey happens to require a transfer (or two), you are charged double (or triple) - a transfer penalty, quite literally. In which case you have low demand, which causes low farebox recovery = high subsidy.

While, in my view, a distance-based or zone-based fare structure is a superior concept to a single fare (due to encouraging v. discouraging transfers), in Dublin the practicalities are against tagging both on and off on a bus. Even we finally move away from the need to interact with the driver, getting on and off a bus is still likely to be longer than in other European countries. So adding another process of tagging off could put us back where we are now in terms of disasterous stop dwelling times. Examples of bottlenecks:

1) The narrow gangway at the front of a bus, behind the driver's cab - only one person at a time can walk through, not enough room for two so you'll still have queues on the way in (assuming the middle door would be used for getting off at the same time).

2) On the Continent a typical 10 meter single decker with capacity of 90 people has 3 doors. Some double deckers in Dublin with capacity of 120 people have 2 doors. So we'll never achieve compareably speedy boardings, even with faster Leap card readers and the like.

Dravokivich · 14-01-2017 10:04pm

OscarMIlde wrote: »

As a 66/67 bus user, they really need to update this route. It is far too long, especially at rush hour. It should either bypass Chapelizod at peak times or bypass Lucan village, preferably both. At least half an hour could be knocked off the journey by this measure. If necessary have the 66a or 66b service these places, but not the buses travelling all the way from Maynooth.

It may not suit you, but I see a lot of school kids that depend on that routing from chapelizod, Lucan and leixlip who go up to maynooth.

bk · 14-01-2017 10:09pm

Art(h)ur wrote: »

In fact, I would expect a flat fare structure to discourage people as if you're journey happens to require a transfer (or two), you are charged double (or triple) - a transfer penalty, quite literally. In which case you have low demand, which causes low farebox recovery = high subsidy.

There is absolutely no reason why you couldn't operate a flat fare and still continue the travel 90 discount!

Tag-on the first bus, pay €2, tag on the second bus within 90 minutes pay just €1. The coding in the ticket machines can easily work all this out, jsut as they do today.

I'd also argue that the Dutch Style tag-on/tag-off even through single door buses would still be faster then what we currently have today, with the horrendously slow interaction with the driver. Specially if the ticket machines were updated to make them faster like they are in other companies.

Today you have to place the card on the drivers ticket machine, tell him the fare you want, wait for the Leap screen to load on his ticket machine and for him to then select the fair you asked for. Really it all takes ages!

Switching to having people quickly tagging-on as they enter and again quickly tagging-off as they leave feels like it would be much quicker to me, then interacting with the driver.

And of course it would work much faster on the double door buses where it is actually used.

Either way the current way of paying is horribly broken, and it badly needs fixing ASAP.

r93kaey5p2izun · 14-01-2017 10:27pm

For me the biggest thing that needs to improve is that buses need to actually run. Around 2 out of every 5 buses I go for just don't run for "operational reasons". In the past three weeks I have taken the bus 12 times and 5 just didn't show at all. I know I am taking buses at off peak times that may not be deemed priority but it's hard to have confidence in a system that is so unreliable. Perhaps it is certain routes that are affected more than others and maybe rush hour buses are given priority, but I don't know how anyone could rely on this service to get to work when a no-show means an hour's wait.

Kyleboy · 14-01-2017 10:36pm

Asa Shy Ferryboat wrote: »

For me the biggest thing that needs to improve is that buses need to actually run. Around 2 out of every 5 buses I go for just don't run for "operational reasons". In the past three weeks I have taken the bus 12 times and 5 just didn't show at all. I know I am taking buses at off peak times that may not be deemed priority but it's hard to have confidence in a system that is so unreliable. Perhaps it is certain routes that are affected more than others and maybe rush hour buses are given priority, but I don't know how anyone could rely on this service to get to work when a no-show means an hour's wait.

You seem to be very unlucky, what buses do you take?

r93kaey5p2izun · 14-01-2017 10:45pm

Kyleboy wrote: »

You seem to be very unlucky, what buses do you take?

25a - mostly evenings and weekends. I don't use the bus to commute - this is for visiting family. It's not my own local route either and I sincerely hope it's better at peak times for commuters. But my experience as someone taking the bus a few times a week at off peak times does not give a good impression of reliability.

BonnieSituation · 14-01-2017 11:10pm

Asa Shy Ferryboat wrote: »

For me the biggest thing that needs to improve is that buses need to actually run. Around 2 out of every 5 buses I go for just don't run for "operational reasons". In the past three weeks I have taken the bus 12 times and 5 just didn't show at all. I know I am taking buses at off peak times that may not be deemed priority but it's hard to have confidence in a system that is so unreliable. Perhaps it is certain routes that are affected more than others and maybe rush hour buses are given priority, but I don't know how anyone could rely on this service to get to work when a no-show means an hour's wait.

I'm a 25A/25B user. Have had the "operational reasons" excuse given out to me a few times after tweeting Dublin Bus. It's so annoying. I mean if a bus is not running don't put it on the RTPI or better still put it on the RTPI saying not running due to operational reasons.

You don't mind me asking when these buses weren't running and what direction?

It';s become very apparent that the 25B suffers from this phenomenon a lot less.

Bray Head · 14-01-2017 11:10pm

D8 boy wrote: »

For medium-large cities, flat fare systems do not generate as much revenue as a zonal or graduated fare system. Large cities with a flat fare typically provide much higher subsidy for their bus systems. For example, in 2007, the subsidy to bus services in Brussels, which has a flat fare, was 68% of costs, compared with 29% in Dublin.

I am not sure I buy this comparison.

Ticket prices in Brussels are extremely cheap. It is a €7.50 for a 24-hour ticket and just €499 for a yearly pass for bus and metro.

A bus and Luas ticket in Dublin is €1620 which even with Taxsaver is much more expensive than Brussels. There would be protests but the citizens of Brussels could easily handle 50% more in fares - it is on the whole not a poor city. So maybe the high subvention is down to a policy choice on low fares.

BonnieSituation · 14-01-2017 11:15pm

Low fares to encourage use perhaps because the costs of the subvention are offset elsewhere in the economy.

r93kaey5p2izun · 14-01-2017 11:19pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I'm a 25A/25B user. Have had the "operational reasons" excuse given out to me a few times after tweeting Dublin Bus. It's so annoying. I mean if a bus is not running don't put it on the RTPI or better still put it on the RTPI saying not running due to operational reasons.

You don't mind me asking when these buses weren't running and what direction?

It';s become very apparent that the 25B suffers from this phenomenon a lot less.

Both directions. Towards city centre mid afternoon at weekends - between 2 and 4pm. From city centre at weekends around between 8 and 10pm. I've actually found the Saturday 6.30pm bus from town doesn't show more often than it does, though it wouldn't be every Saturday I get it. I also find the 25b seems to be prioritised - think I've posted about that before here.

I'm taking this route just over a year now and it's just shocking. I take it more often during summer months and during a wider variety of times (more midweek) during those months and it was just as bad. I spent many summer evenings sitting on the railings of Merrion Square from 9pm to 10pm.

D8 boy · 15-01-2017 1:00am

Bray Head wrote: »

I am not sure I buy this comparison.

Ticket prices in Brussels are extremely cheap. It is a €7.50 for a 24-hour ticket and just €499 for a yearly pass for bus and metro.

A bus and Luas ticket in Dublin is €1620 which even with Taxsaver is much more expensive than Brussels. There would be protests but the citizens of Brussels could easily handle 50% more in fares - it is on the whole not a poor city. So maybe the high subvention is down to a policy choice on low fares.

I agree, the flat structure is not the only reason for the high subsidy in Brussels. As in many mainland European cities, there is an explicit policy to provide a good service at moderate costs even if that entails considerable subsidy. But a flat fare has to be relatively low so as not to deter passengers making short trips so it generally requires more subsidy.

D8 boy · 15-01-2017 1:25am

Art(h)ur wrote: »

Not sure how the fare structure and the farebox recovery are connected.

It was something I found in an OECD report when I was wring my MSc thesis, many years ago! The report doesn't seem to be downloadable unless you have a subscription rot the OECD library. Eyeballing the Wikipedia entry on farebox ratio would suggest it's still the case, especially as it does include entries from UK cities apart from London which generally have graduated fares, and high farebox ratios.

L1011 · 15-01-2017 3:04am

Tallinn has free PT for residents. I don't want to even imagine how high the subsidies are there. It'll cost a hell of a lot to get PT fares down to match cities specifically picked for having low fares.

StreetLight · 15-01-2017 9:20am

Asa Shy Ferryboat wrote: »

Both directions. Towards city centre mid afternoon at weekends - between 2 and 4pm. From city centre at weekends around between 8 and 10pm. I've actually found the Saturday 6.30pm bus from town doesn't show more often than it does, though it wouldn't be every Saturday I get it. I also find the 25b seems to be prioritised - think I've posted about that before here.

I'm taking this route just over a year now and it's just shocking. I take it more often during summer months and during a wider variety of times (more midweek) during those months and it was just as bad. I spent many summer evenings sitting on the railings of Merrion Square from 9pm to 10pm.

The 25 group of routes lack sufficient running time, so sometimes the inbound ones are told to operate to Bachelors Walk only, so they can turn around at O'Connell Bridge and start working outbound again from Aston Quay.

This can happen at any time of the day or night. There appears to be no urgency to rectify it. Maybe they're waiting for the Luas works to be completed.

sharper · 15-01-2017 11:57am

Dravokivich wrote: »

It may not suit you, but I see a lot of school kids that depend on that routing from chapelizod, Lucan and leixlip who go up to maynooth.

My guess is what they need to do is expand the operation of the 66x. It's also the only bus that serves Glenn Easton.

I've taken the 66 at different times of the day from the city centre and it's consistently close to full at it's current route and frequency.

Slutmonkey57b · 15-01-2017 12:12pm

But how quickly does it empty out once it leaves the city? Are hoards of people getting off a third of the way along the route?

sharper · 15-01-2017 12:38pm

I'd guess about 1/3 full by the time it gets past Leixlip. It's hard to know how many people wanted to get to Maynooth but couldn't because it was full.

The Xs generally remain full until Glenn Easton. The outgoing X's can often be full before Leixlip so I think there are quite a few trying to get to/from Maynooth.

r93kaey5p2izun · 15-01-2017 3:59pm

StreetLight wrote: »

The 25 group of routes lack sufficient running time, so sometimes the inbound ones are told to operate to Bachelors Walk only, so they can turn around at O'Connell Bridge and start working outbound again from Aston Quay.

This can happen at any time of the day or night. There appears to be no urgency to rectify it. Maybe they're waiting for the Luas works to be completed.

Yes I have seen this happen a few times (been on buses that terminate at Bachelor's Walk because they are late). However, I find DB are usually honest when this happens and clearly state that the inspector on duty decided to curtail the route and operate from the quays only. That's if you ask them on Twitter - obviously they don't bother notifying customers unless asked, either through RTPI or just a tweet or note on the website. That is rarely given as the reason for no shows in the late evening though - that's always just operational reasons. Also, no shows from the Lucan terminus are just as common.

A relative works for the company and has asked around on what the operational reason for 25a not running so frequently is and was told it was simply lack of drivers.

dublinman1990 · 15-01-2017 7:02pm

I haven't been into Sandymount for a few months because I go to college in Bray now. But if the OP suggested that the 1 & 47 routes should be taken out of Sandymount altogether & leaving it only with a 77a would leave passengers with a much worse service than anticipated.

I would prefer adding the 77a as an extra route from Tallaght & let it terminate at St. Johns Church like the No. 1 route.

Just to note OP that the old 77 route was merged with the 27 to Jobstown under Network Direct.

A lot of students & some staff members attend Roslyn Park College in Sandymount. They use the bus to get to College live in areas like Tallaght, Santry, Blanchardstown, Drumcondra, Finglas & Portarlington. They would largely use the 1 to get off in DCC & get another bus, Luas or train to get home. When the students get on a bus from the college to DCC sometime after 4pm; both a 1 & 47 arrive at the stop at the same time. However there is a large gap of 45 minutes to wait for the next 47 into DCC afterwards between 4pm & 4:45pm. If the 77a retained it's 20 minute frequency or if it had a slightly better one; it would take a lot of passengers off the 47's hands from Sandymount into DCC because it works on the same route as the other two routes.

The current 77a terminus is at Ringsend Bus Garage btw. They currently use it as a turnaround point for this route to go on the journey back to Citywest. Am I right to say that extending the 77a to Sandymount will probably add up to an extra 15 minutes to the route?

Getting rid of the 47 could make sense if demand had allowed it to be a good idea. You will have to be careful with that route as you couldn't possibly repeat the situation of it being redundant by leaving it at Donnybrook Garage as a terminus all over again.

It would probably be much better to re-align that route into DCC back through Merrion Road & Ballsbridge as per the 4, 7, 7a, 27x & 120.

There are students who use the 18 as well to get into college. If that route was extended into Liffey Valley as per the OP's post. It could be still be a good idea in theory. The only difference is the route terminus outside Roslyn Park College in Sandymount. Having the 18 bus there normally blocks the 1 & 47 to pick up or drop off passengers nearly every time it starts there. If you workmen parking their vehicles at that stop; it is another kettle of fish for Dublin Bus to resolve.

I also heard rumors last year that the 1 was meant to be extended from Santry to Dublin Airport. But no further updates on these changes have been made since they was first announced. Has there any development on this stage yet as it could be a very option for passengers to get from Sandymount to Dublin Airport.

Aircoach recently announced they are to get rid of the Sandymount variation on their Greystones & Dalkey routes in their new timetables.

Would it not be a good idea for Dublin Bus now to take over those arrangements by replacing these Aircoach services with a 1 to the Airport?

aphex™ · 15-01-2017 7:35pm

Would like to see a bus route go from Dun Laoghaire to Tallaght via sandyford using the Sounth Dublin Green route. Basically, a straightened out version of the 75 that doesn't take the piss with huge detours due to years of legacy route changes.

howiya · 15-01-2017 9:50pm

Asa Shy Ferryboat wrote: »

For me the biggest thing that needs to improve is that buses need to actually run. Around 2 out of every 5 buses I go for just don't run for "operational reasons". In the past three weeks I have taken the bus 12 times and 5 just didn't show at all. I know I am taking buses at off peak times that may not be deemed priority but it's hard to have confidence in a system that is so unreliable. Perhaps it is certain routes that are affected more than others and maybe rush hour buses are given priority, but I don't know how anyone could rely on this service to get to work when a no-show means an hour's wait.

I thought I was bad. I only get buses to work. Have other arrangements for getting home. At least 1 day a week there'll be a no show. So I'm only at 1 of 5. Tweet dublin bus but the only reply you ever get is "operational reasons".

If you knew in advance the bus wasn't running it would be some improvement

How to improve Dublin Bus Services in 2017

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