How to improve Dublin Bus Services in 2017

As a 66/67 bus user, they really need to update this route. It is far too long, especially at rush hour. It should either bypass Chapelizod at peak times or bypass Lucan village, preferably both. At least half an hour could be knocked off the journey by this measure. If necessary have the 66a or 66b service these places, but not the buses travelling all the way from Maynooth.

Yep, I travel from Belfield to Maynooth. Plenty of times I have been working late, missed the 66, been unable to get on a 67 as it is full, and have seen an empty 26, 66b show up a few minutes later, no doubt able to serve most of the same passengers who took my spot on the 67.

OscarMIlde wrote: »

As a 66/67 bus user, they really need to update this route. It is far too long, especially at rush hour. It should either bypass Chapelizod at peak times or bypass Lucan village, preferably both. At least half an hour could be knocked off the journey by this measure. If necessary have the 66a or 66b service these places, but not the buses travelling all the way from Maynooth.

I got the 67 from the city centre yesterday at around 4:10 and got into Maynooth about 20 minutes before the 66x leaving the city centre at 5pm.

Why did I get the 67 instead of the 66? Because I was tracking the arrival time of the 66 using the app. It went from "arriving in 13 minutes" to "arriving in 5 minutes" so I had to leave work in a rush. Then from across the bridge I saw it pull up to the stop and leave while it was at "arriving in 4 minutes". In the space of two minutes it went from "Don't even bother going to the stop yet" to "It's gone".

Meanwhile the 67 that followed counted down to "arriving in 4 minutes" and stayed there for 5 minutes. I was as well to leave work when I'd planned to and go have a coffee until 5pm.

The worst part of the real time tracking isn't that it's wrong but that it never improves. Busses that didn't track two years ago still don't. Arrival times vary all over the place and if you know a route well you can usually estimate it's arrival time yourself better than the supposedly real time system will tell you.

D8 boy wrote: »

flat fare systems do not generate as much revenue as a zonal or graduated fare system.

Not sure how the fare structure and the farebox recovery are connected. I'm not familiar with the detils of the Brussels example you've quoted but I would suspect any of the following to play a part:

- low demand and high supply (an unsuccessful attempt to bring in more passengers by high frequencies)?
- flat fare deliberately set at a level to encourage more passengers?
- high levels of fare evasion?

In fact, I would expect a flat fare structure to discourage people as if you're journey happens to require a transfer (or two), you are charged double (or triple) - a transfer penalty, quite literally. In which case you have low demand, which causes low farebox recovery = high subsidy.

While, in my view, a distance-based or zone-based fare structure is a superior concept to a single fare (due to encouraging v. discouraging transfers), in Dublin the practicalities are against tagging both on and off on a bus. Even we finally move away from the need to interact with the driver, getting on and off a bus is still likely to be longer than in other European countries. So adding another process of tagging off could put us back where we are now in terms of disasterous stop dwelling times. Examples of bottlenecks:

1) The narrow gangway at the front of a bus, behind the driver's cab - only one person at a time can walk through, not enough room for two so you'll still have queues on the way in (assuming the middle door would be used for getting off at the same time).

2) On the Continent a typical 10 meter single decker with capacity of 90 people has 3 doors. Some double deckers in Dublin with capacity of 120 people have 2 doors. So we'll never achieve compareably speedy boardings, even with faster Leap card readers and the like.

Asa Shy Ferryboat wrote: »

For me the biggest thing that needs to improve is that buses need to actually run. Around 2 out of every 5 buses I go for just don't run for "operational reasons". In the past three weeks I have taken the bus 12 times and 5 just didn't show at all. I know I am taking buses at off peak times that may not be deemed priority but it's hard to have confidence in a system that is so unreliable. Perhaps it is certain routes that are affected more than others and maybe rush hour buses are given priority, but I don't know how anyone could rely on this service to get to work when a no-show means an hour's wait.

You seem to be very unlucky, what buses do you take?

Asa Shy Ferryboat wrote: »

For me the biggest thing that needs to improve is that buses need to actually run. Around 2 out of every 5 buses I go for just don't run for "operational reasons". In the past three weeks I have taken the bus 12 times and 5 just didn't show at all. I know I am taking buses at off peak times that may not be deemed priority but it's hard to have confidence in a system that is so unreliable. Perhaps it is certain routes that are affected more than others and maybe rush hour buses are given priority, but I don't know how anyone could rely on this service to get to work when a no-show means an hour's wait.

I'm a 25A/25B user. Have had the "operational reasons" excuse given out to me a few times after tweeting Dublin Bus. It's so annoying. I mean if a bus is not running don't put it on the RTPI or better still put it on the RTPI saying not running due to operational reasons.

You don't mind me asking when these buses weren't running and what direction?

It';s become very apparent that the 25B suffers from this phenomenon a lot less.

Low fares to encourage use perhaps because the costs of the subvention are offset elsewhere in the economy.

Bray Head wrote: »

I am not sure I buy this comparison.

Ticket prices in Brussels are extremely cheap. It is a €7.50 for a 24-hour ticket and just €499 for a yearly pass for bus and metro.

A bus and Luas ticket in Dublin is €1620 which even with Taxsaver is much more expensive than Brussels. There would be protests but the citizens of Brussels could easily handle 50% more in fares - it is on the whole not a poor city. So maybe the high subvention is down to a policy choice on low fares.

I agree, the flat structure is not the only reason for the high subsidy in Brussels. As in many mainland European cities, there is an explicit policy to provide a good service at moderate costs even if that entails considerable subsidy. But a flat fare has to be relatively low so as not to deter passengers making short trips so it generally requires more subsidy.

Dravokivich wrote: »

It may not suit you, but I see a lot of school kids that depend on that routing from chapelizod, Lucan and leixlip who go up to maynooth.

My guess is what they need to do is expand the operation of the 66x. It's also the only bus that serves Glenn Easton.

I've taken the 66 at different times of the day from the city centre and it's consistently close to full at it's current route and frequency.

I'd guess about 1/3 full by the time it gets past Leixlip. It's hard to know how many people wanted to get to Maynooth but couldn't because it was full.

The Xs generally remain full until Glenn Easton. The outgoing X's can often be full before Leixlip so I think there are quite a few trying to get to/from Maynooth.

I haven't been into Sandymount for a few months because I go to college in Bray now. But if the OP suggested that the 1 & 47 routes should be taken out of Sandymount altogether & leaving it only with a 77a would leave passengers with a much worse service than anticipated.

I would prefer adding the 77a as an extra route from Tallaght & let it terminate at St. Johns Church like the No. 1 route.

Just to note OP that the old 77 route was merged with the 27 to Jobstown under Network Direct.

A lot of students & some staff members attend Roslyn Park College in Sandymount. They use the bus to get to College live in areas like Tallaght, Santry, Blanchardstown, Drumcondra, Finglas & Portarlington. They would largely use the 1 to get off in DCC & get another bus, Luas or train to get home. When the students get on a bus from the college to DCC sometime after 4pm; both a 1 & 47 arrive at the stop at the same time. However there is a large gap of 45 minutes to wait for the next 47 into DCC afterwards between 4pm & 4:45pm. If the 77a retained it's 20 minute frequency or if it had a slightly better one; it would take a lot of passengers off the 47's hands from Sandymount into DCC because it works on the same route as the other two routes.

The current 77a terminus is at Ringsend Bus Garage btw. They currently use it as a turnaround point for this route to go on the journey back to Citywest. Am I right to say that extending the 77a to Sandymount will probably add up to an extra 15 minutes to the route?

Getting rid of the 47 could make sense if demand had allowed it to be a good idea. You will have to be careful with that route as you couldn't possibly repeat the situation of it being redundant by leaving it at Donnybrook Garage as a terminus all over again.

It would probably be much better to re-align that route into DCC back through Merrion Road & Ballsbridge as per the 4, 7, 7a, 27x & 120.

There are students who use the 18 as well to get into college. If that route was extended into Liffey Valley as per the OP's post. It could be still be a good idea in theory. The only difference is the route terminus outside Roslyn Park College in Sandymount. Having the 18 bus there normally blocks the 1 & 47 to pick up or drop off passengers nearly every time it starts there. If you workmen parking their vehicles at that stop; it is another kettle of fish for Dublin Bus to resolve.

I also heard rumors last year that the 1 was meant to be extended from Santry to Dublin Airport. But no further updates on these changes have been made since they was first announced. Has there any development on this stage yet as it could be a very option for passengers to get from Sandymount to Dublin Airport.

Aircoach recently announced they are to get rid of the Sandymount variation on their Greystones & Dalkey routes in their new timetables.

Would it not be a good idea for Dublin Bus now to take over those arrangements by replacing these Aircoach services with a 1 to the Airport?

Asa Shy Ferryboat wrote: »

For me the biggest thing that needs to improve is that buses need to actually run. Around 2 out of every 5 buses I go for just don't run for "operational reasons". In the past three weeks I have taken the bus 12 times and 5 just didn't show at all. I know I am taking buses at off peak times that may not be deemed priority but it's hard to have confidence in a system that is so unreliable. Perhaps it is certain routes that are affected more than others and maybe rush hour buses are given priority, but I don't know how anyone could rely on this service to get to work when a no-show means an hour's wait.

I thought I was bad. I only get buses to work. Have other arrangements for getting home. At least 1 day a week there'll be a no show. So I'm only at 1 of 5. Tweet dublin bus but the only reply you ever get is "operational reasons".

If you knew in advance the bus wasn't running it would be some improvement