How to improve Dublin Bus Services in 2017

KC8

A few years ago I set out some thoughts on how Dublin Bus services could be cut but the overall service improved for the customer. With some time over Christmas, I did the same again but with a slightly different perspective – in the knowledge that there will be growth next year in the number of buses and drivers available.

I set out below my thoughts. However, before getting into the route specifics, I think there are a few other things that could easily be done by Dublin Bus / NTA / Dublin City Council that would make huge improvements for the general customer.

Sunday start times – Departures begin far too late. IMO, it is very sad to see so many retail businesses treating Sunday just like any other day, but the reality is that thousands of people have work to go to early on a Sunday morning, yet Dublin Bus don’t have a meaningful service to the city Centre until about 1000. This is even more acute on Bank Holidays when many international businesses are also open. Services along core routes should begin around 0700, like Luas.

Intermediate Stop Times – In other words, if a bus is running ahead of schedule, it holds aty certain stops until the scheduled time is reached. Dublin Bus seem to always have been against this but I think it should at least be implemented in the late evenings when frequencies drop considerably. For example, Route 13 is only every 30 minutes. If you want to plan getting a bus to Ballymun from O’Connell Street, you have to estimate how long the bus will take from Clondalkin. If you just miss it, you have a long wait. If designed correctly, the introduction of this concept shouldn’t result in passengers sitting on stationary buses for any period more than a couple of minutes, but it should help customers overall and maintain even headways between services.

Bus Priority –If we want more people to use public transport, it must be reliable. For it to be reliable, journey times need to be reasonably consistent. As a starting point, I believe bus lanes should be installed everywhere there is capacity. For example, Clanbrassil Street outbound, the N81 outbound after Templeogue, Church Street and Summerhill/Ballybough should all get a lick of paint immediately. Nothing more is needed but it would instantly improve bus services along the routes. Where there isn’t capacity for a general traffic lane and a bus lane, careful design and implementation should take place. Without both, it doesn’t work. For example, the design along Templeouge Road is good but the implementation is pathetic – the bus light to hold back traffic before Terenure Cross has never been calibrated correctly. There are dozens of pinch points across the cities that need addressing urgently. From a cost benefit perspective it’s a no brainer. We don’t need fancy new buses, we don’t need undergrounds or new Luas lines, just a bit of thought and imagination. By way of example, I suspect the area that delays buses most at the moment is Kelly’s Corner which impacts on both the Tallaght and Rathfarnham QBCs. Traffic heading for Hatch Street holds up all routes approaching Kelly’s Corner. I believe this can be addressed with minimal overall disruption to traffic. Here goes:

1. Make Hatch Street one way from Harcourt Street to Earlsfort Terrace. This will increase throughput of traffic from the direction causing problems as you no longer need a green sequence for the Hatch Street to Harcourt Street manoeuvre. Those who can no longer use Hatch Street in the direction they wish have alternative options and are relatively few in number anyway.

2. Reduce overall traffic approaching Kelly’s Corner. Make Harrington Street to Kelly’s Corner bus only. Other traffic can be diverted via Heytesbury Street. Or be braver and make Camden Street outbound bus only.

3. Block Lenox Street at the junction of South Richmond Street to avoid the ‘rat run’. A similar measure was implemented successfully outside the DIT at Bishops Street.

Fares –The Leap Card is now widely used and the additional features such as the new version of “travel 90” are very helpful. The issue I still have with it is the time it takes for a transaction to be processed by a bus driver. It’s anything but ‘swipe and go’. Addressing this would significantly reduce dwell times. I remember seeing a QBC monitoring report a few years ago from the DTO and it showed almost 20% of a bus journey was spent at bus stops. The only way to properly address this is to do away with the complicated fare stage structure. I suspect the fare complexity is also a barrier for people to use buses that don’t normally do so. If I had a say, I would implement the following fares.
• Default Leap Card Fare: €2
• Default Leap Card Fare on an Xpresso Routes: €3
• Cash Fare within Canal Ring: €3
• Cash Fare outside / across Canal Ring: €5

I don’t know what this might mean from a revenue perspective but I don’t think anyone knows for sure – it could possibly raise revenue as a simplified fare structure would boost demand or it could reduce costs as faster journey times would mean the need for less busses and drivers.

The Leap Card is currently cheaper if availing of the City Centre Fare or the 3 stage fare but I think the NTA just need to be confident in selling such a change for the ‘greater good’. The above fare structure is easy to explain and would mean you no longer need to interact with the bus driver. The only possible exception you might make to the above is for outer suburban routes such as the 33 or the 65.

Routes: In assessing the current network of routes, I haven’t started from scratch but rather made some changes to the current setup. I’ve also sent a far greater number of routes to ‘Hubs’ to allow for interchange and to reflect likely destinations for customers. I don’t see why drivers couldn’t take their breaks at such Hubs (e.g. Heuston, Airport, UCD) which would make driver scheduling more efficient.

Route 1 – Cancel. Replaced Southside by 77A; Replaced Northside by higher frequency 16.

Route 4 – Extend Route to Airport on the Northside via Northwood and to Cherrywood Luas via Cornelscourt on the Southside. Increase daytime frequency to every 10 mins.

Route 7s – Cancel inbound diversion for some busses via Blackrock to avoid bunching of services after Blackrock.

Route 9 – No Change

Route 11 – Extend to Bellarmine; every 15 minutes with a few of the morning departures from Bellarmine going via Stillorgan Shopping Centre and the N11 QBC to avoid the morning congestion through Clonskeagh.

Route 13 – I propose that the current 13 service gets its northside terminus extended to the airport. Airport departures should be integrated with route 4. The first of my few radical changes is on the Southside. A few reasons. Firstly the current route runs along the Nass Road which is congested and is served by the Luas. Secondly it also goes via Mount Brown which can lead to huge delays. Thirdly, James’s Street is already well served by the 123 and the 40. So the new 13 route on the Southside takes the current route 51D to Clondalkin (much faster route with bus priority) and then terminates at the Red cow Luas (creating further route integration options).
Route 14 – Extend to airport. This will ensure Fairview and the Malahide Road finally have a connection to the Airport and that Route 16 doesn’t need to make the Beaumont diversion anymore.

Route 15s – No change

Route 16 – Extend to Dundrum Luas via Wyckham Way with the Bus Lanes activated. Increase frequency to 10 minutes all day. Do away with diversion via Beaumount as the extended route 14 to the airport will cover this. Extra Peak Times services on the Southside via Clanbrassil Street and on the Northside from Kellys Corner to Santry (Northwood).

Route 17 – Extend to Heustion Station via James’s Hospital and run route along Luas Tracks then to Heuston. 30 minute frequency.

Route 17A – More running time.

Route 18 – Extend to Liffey Valley via Coldcut Road. No longer serves Palmerstown. Simplify timetable. 15 minute peak, 30 minute off peak frequency

Route 25A and 25B - Extend to UCD via Ballsbridge and Nutley Lane. This increases capacity which is badly needed through Ballsbridge and also offers easy transfer for DART passengers (Sydney Parade) from UCD (without buses being delayed by level crossings like old route 2 and 3 were).

Route 25 and 26 – Currently all Lucan Road buses have integrated timetables but the hourly Route 25 leads to one anomaly every hour and often caries very few passengers as a result. I propose that Route 25 be cancelled but

Route 26 be extended to the current 25 terminus of Dodsboro via Coldcut
Road.

Route 27 – No change but I often observe big gaps on RTPI for this service and a lot of bunching. This tells me greater running time is needed. Intermideiate stops at the Square and Dame Street would help.

Route 27A – Reduce frequency to hourly as core route should be prioritised

Route 27B - Extend route to Heuston on the Southside and to the Airport on the Northside.

Route 29A – No change

Route 31 – No change

Route 32s – No Change

Route 33s – Route all services via Port Tunnel

Route 37 – No Change

Route 38 - The second radical change. Cancel Route 38, 40D, 236 and 238. Replace with a new route running at high frequency from the new Luas terminus at Broombridge and running along the current route 40D to Tyrrelstown and then onto terminate at the Blanchardstown Centre. Every 15 minutes. Retain Route 38A as a direct bus service from the Damastown area to the City Centre. The Leap Card should be able to treat as one ticket a journey starting on a bus in Damastown and finishing on a Luas on Dawson Street.

Route 39s –. Route 39 to be rerouted and terminus changed as follows: Ongar – Clonsilla (not via Centre – goes straight along Clonsilla Road) – Blanchardstown Village – Navan Road Parkway (interchange) – Cabra – Broombridge Luas Stop (terminus). Every 15 minutes. Alternatively, terminate it at the new Grangegorman Campus which will also offer an opportunity to transfer to a Luas.

Route 39A - No change to route 39A. Amend evening timetable slightly. Instead of the current increased frequency of every 5 minutes lasting for less than an hour in the evening, spread the increased frequency out a bit. Say a bus every 7 minutes between 1600 and 1900.

Route 40s – 40D cancelled (see route 38). No change to other routes but greater running time.

Route 41s – No change. If I had complete free reign, I would make loads of changes here to avail of the Port Tunnel by starting services in the Airport and then go via Swords, onto the N1/M1 and then the tunnel but I suspect it wouldn’t happen due to the Swords Express services.

Route 42s – Third Radical Change. Cancel Route due to enhanced Route 142.

Route 43 – No Change

Route 44 –I am all for cross city services but the frequency needs to be much higher for this to work. There is a lot of additional building (commercial and residential) along this route on the Southside so I think it could be a popular route again if given some support. I propose a 15 minute frequency from Enniskerry and terminating at the Dundrum Luas Stop. The Leap card should be able to support integrated ticketing options. I also think the southern terminus should be extended to Powerscourt at relevant times to help tourists. See also Route 118 for a direct service to the city centre at peak. The Leap Card should be able to treat as one ticket a journey starting on a bus in Enniskerry and finishing on a Luas on Dawson Street.

Route 45A – I rarely use this service and must confess I don’t see the point of it but I don’t know enough to say it should be cancelled. But surely Route 7 and Route 145 covers all relevant areas?

Route 46A – Some changes. More running time for greater reliability. Extend Infirmary Road terminus to Heuston Station creating connection options for Phibsboro customers. Buses should run along the Luas Bridge from Parkgate Street (minor changes to traffic light and Luas lights needed).

Route 47 – Cancelled. See route 11 and 25A/B

Route 49 - No Change

Route 51s – Cancelled due to changes to Route 13

Route 53 – Cancelled. See route 151.

Route 54A – No Change

Route 56A – Replace with a shuttle around Ballymount to Red Cow Luas

Route 59 – No change

Route 61 – No change

Route 63 – No Change

Route 65s – No Change

Route 66s and 67s – No Change

Route 68 and 69 – No Change. In light of Route 13 changes, I think
terminating these routes at the Red Cow Luas might be a step too far.

Route 70 – No Change

Route 75 – More running time and 30 minute frequency all day. A new 75X Service at peak times between Red Cow Luas, non-Stop to Sandyford Industrial Estate along M50.

Route 76s – No Change

Route 77A – Extend to current terminus of Route 1 in Sandymount.

Route 79s – No Change

Route 83 – No change but greater bus priority needed around Harrolds Cross and Glasnevin

Route 84 – No longer needed north of BrayChange

Route 84X no change. But redesignate the M11 northbound after the M50 exit as a normal road to facilitate the conversion of the hard shoulder of what is now the remainder of the M11 into a bus lane to assist this route as well as Bus Eireann, Wexford Bus etc.

Route 90 – Cancel. See route 27B

Route 102 – No Change

Route 104 – Extend terminus to Clontarf DART

Route 111 – Like route 45A, I rarely use this service and must confess I don’t see the point of it but I don’t know enough to say it should be cancelled. But surely Route 7 and Route 145 covers all relevant areas?

Route 114 – No change

Route 116 - No Change

Route 118 – Extend to Enniskerry and have one peak departure in each direction

Route 120 – 10 minute shuttle between Ashington and Brombridge Luas

Route 122 – No Change

Route 123 - Reduce frequency to every 10 minutes. Run shorts (route 124) from Marino to St James at peak to offer a 5 minute frequency

Route 130 – No Change

Route 140 – Extend to Airport and to UCD along current route 142. A direct service between Rathmines and UCD should prove popular. It also finally gives an airport connection to residents of Finglas.

Route 142 – The third radical change. Convert into an all-day service replacing Route 42. Terminate at Adelaide Road / Kelly’s Corner. Every 15 minutes. Route 43 still serves the Malahide Road north of Clare Hall.

Route 145 – No Change. Running Times now seem more reliable.

Route 150 – No Change.

Route 151 – Extend Terminus eastward to replace Route 53

Route 161 – Cancel Route. Often carries zero passengers. Route 61 available.

Route 184 and 185 – No Change but potential to reconfigure now that route 84 terminates at Bray.

Route 220 – Cancel. Very little point to this route with Route 17A.

Route 236 and 238 – Cancel – See new route 38.

Route 239 and 270 – No Change

athtrasna

The two routes I know best from that list I disagree with your comments massively.

The 7 servicing Blackrock was reviewed after a public consultation recently and Dublin bus had to change their plans to do as you suggested such was the local response. Those buses are needed.

38s, you ignore massive parts of the routes ie Castleknock and Waterville. Significant populations you want to reduce the bus service for. Not everything in D15 revolves around the shopping centre!

Zebra3

Bus lanes for buses and bikes only.

howiya

First of all fair play for taking the time to put all of your ideas together.

I think everyone agrees that the fare structure needs to be simplified. Dublin Bus probably wouldn't agree with your €2 mark but one default leap fare would reduce dwelling times regardless of whether it's €2 or €2.20 etc. I don't agree with your cash fare points though. What made you focus on the canal? Would somebody going from Jobstown to the Square have to pay €5 if they wanted to pay cash? They could get a taxi for €7/€8

Ideally everybody should have a leap card but we all know people who don't have one or might not have credit on their card etc. Potentially everyone already does have a leap card though. Its called a debit card. Sooner the NTA follow London's example the better.

A common theme in your route changes is to force interchanges where they might not be necessary under current routes. You mention Travel 90 or Leap 90 to use it's correct name. Taking your default leap card fare of €2 and making a person take a second bus to complete their journey would increase the cost by 50% after the Leap 90 discount is applied. Cost could increase more if they are driven to an interchange with the Luas.

To comment on routes I am most aware of:

Route 27: Agree with your comments regarding running time. DB cannot adhere to current timetable especially when the frequency is every 10 minutes. Often this will be replaced by a departure running 5 minutes late to cover two trips so as to only leave 15 minute gaps rather than 20 minute gaps. Disagree with your positioning of intermediate stops. Dame Street is a non runner due to amount of buses and space constraints and having one at the Square when the bus is either only 15 minutes into its route (towards city) or trying to make time towards the end of its journey (towards Jobstown). Would also argue that off peak frequency should be increased.

Route 56a - This is the most reliable route between Tallaght and City Centre. Probably because it only runs every 1hr 15 mins but it turns up. Ballymount isn't the only reason it's useful.

Irish Steve

All routes Leap Card or similar, no cash at all taken on the bus. The technology to have card payments on the bus using either contactless or smart phones is now available. Cash is a massive delay factor, and a serious temptation to low life actitivity, if the bus doesn't carry cash, there's no point in trying to get it.

Del2005

Irish Steve wrote: »

All routes Leap Card or similar, no cash at all taken on the bus. The technology to have card payments on the bus using either contactless or smart phones is now available. Cash is a massive delay factor, and a serious temptation to low life actitivity, if the bus doesn't carry cash, there's no point in trying to get it.

I don't think that DB has had any issues with low lives after their cash since they stopped giving change. No need to get rid of cash once the fare structure is simplified, the biggest problem with the current system is that unless you are a regular user you have no idea what the fare will be until you talk to the driver so you need to have €3 in shrapnel and then count it into the box for the driver to count. A zone system would reduce this.

Dravokivich

A lot of your route amendments are rather baffling to me. Why force people into multi modal journeys that may be unsuitable to them? Why did you hold back on the 68/69?

jamo2oo9

Some of the routes you suggested to increase frequency, I wouldn't agree with them if they are during the day. DB would lose a lot of money for providing extra services during the day where bus loads would be at most 50%. Increased frequencies only required during peak times i.e. 7:00 till 8:30am and 16:00 till 18:00 in the evening.

As for your other suggestion to cancel Route 1 to Shanard Rd, there'll be a lot of people pissed off if that happens. Especially most of them are elderly and unable to hack the long walk to either Ballymun Rd or Swords Rd.

Route 16 could drop the excursion to Beaumont, takes at least 20mins from Whitehall to Santry via Beaumont during rush hour on a good day.

RayM

KC8 wrote: »

Route 84 – No longer needed north of Bray

There was never any valid reason to send it to Blackrock, but it was a busy enough route when it went all the way to Eden Quay. A 30-minute frequency between Newcastle and Bray would be an improvement on the current situation, but anyone travelling further can often face a long wait in Bray for a 145.

Route 84X no change. But redesignate the M11 northbound after the M50 exit as a normal road to facilitate the conversion of the hard shoulder of what is now the remainder of the M11 into a bus lane to assist this route as well as Bus Eireann, Wexford Bus etc.

The 84X badly needs extra timetabled departures, especially in the evenings when it's often full by the time it gets to Donnybrook. Also, with the 84 not going to the city centre, an extra bus or two after 6:30 would be very useful too.

drake70

KC8 wrote: »

Route 84 – No longer needed north of BrayChange

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Many people who who live south of Bray and who do not have access to a car use this service to reach St. Columcille's Hospital.

As RayM stated, switching at Bray is not always a desirable option. Especially if a person needs to keep an appointment.

Kyleboy

RayM wrote: »

There was never any valid reason to send it to Blackrock, but it was a busy enough route when it went all the way to Eden Quay. A 30-minute frequency between Newcastle and Bray would be an improvement on the current situation, but anyone travelling further can often face a long wait in Bray for a 145.



The 84X badly needs extra timetabled departures, especially in the evenings when it's often full by the time it gets to Donnybrook. Also, with the 84 not going to the city centre, an extra bus or two after 6:30 would be very useful too.

The 84x is usually half empty by the time it gets to cherrywood, the issue is the passengers using for the shorter journeys,.

thomasj

forget about extending the 13 and the 14 to the Airport, these serve parts of routes that are already served by the 16. Add to that the Airport charges tariffs for buses to serve there.

What would make more sense would be for an orbital bus service from Blanchardstown to Swords, serving Finglas, Glasnevin, Ballymun, Santry Ave, swords road and the Airport. Just straight not serving hospitals etc, leave that to the 17a. Proper orbital bus service on the northside , sure theres plenty of them on the southside.

Forget about cutting services to Broombridge Luas, it wont open until late this year.

WRT the proposed changes to the 39, alot of people travel to coolmine, clonsilla road and blanchardstown village from the Hartstown-Blakestown area so completely cutting that service, unless you want to have a local service from clonsilla station to Blanchardstown village via loop and coolmine-clonsilla road area, thats out of the question.

39A suggestion makes sense.

cython

KC8 wrote: »

Bus Priority –If we want more people to use public transport, it must be reliable. For it to be reliable, journey times need to be reasonably consistent. As a starting point, I believe bus lanes should be installed everywhere there is capacity. For example, Clanbrassil Street outbound, the N81 outbound after Templeogue, Church Street and Summerhill/Ballybough should all get a lick of paint immediately. Nothing more is needed but it would instantly improve bus services along the routes. Where there isn’t capacity for a general traffic lane and a bus lane, careful design and implementation should take place. Without both, it doesn’t work. For example, the design along Templeouge Road is good but the implementation is pathetic – the bus light to hold back traffic before Terenure Cross has never been calibrated correctly. There are dozens of pinch points across the cities that need addressing urgently. From a cost benefit perspective it’s a no brainer. We don’t need fancy new buses, we don’t need undergrounds or new Luas lines, just a bit of thought and imagination. By way of example, I suspect the area that delays buses most at the moment is Kelly’s Corner which impacts on both the Tallaght and Rathfarnham QBCs. Traffic heading for Hatch Street holds up all routes approaching Kelly’s Corner. I believe this can be addressed with minimal overall disruption to traffic. Here goes:

1. Make Hatch Street one way from Harcourt Street to Earlsfort Terrace. This will increase throughput of traffic from the direction causing problems as you no longer need a green sequence for the Hatch Street to Harcourt Street manoeuvre. Those who can no longer use Hatch Street in the direction they wish have alternative options and are relatively few in number anyway.

2. Reduce overall traffic approaching Kelly’s Corner. Make Harrington Street to Kelly’s Corner bus only. Other traffic can be diverted via Heytesbury Street. Or be braver and make Camden Street outbound bus only.

3. Block Lenox Street at the junction of South Richmond Street to avoid the ‘rat run’. A similar measure was implemented successfully outside the DIT at Bishops Street.

On the bolded above, to be very honest you are massively overestimating the amount of time actually given to traffic coming from Hatch Street to Harcourt Street if you think this will make a big difference. I've sat waiting at those lights as a cyclist, and I would say at the very most 1 in 4 (and likely less) times that traffic is faced with a red light from Charlotte Way onto Harcourt Street is it because of traffic coming from Hatch Street. The pedestrian crossings coupled with (or maybe even because of a disconnect with) the Luas massively outweigh the influence of westbound traffic, so I would target better coordination of those as a first step. Further, if you do make this change, you probably force traffic from Earlsfort Tce to loop around by Adelaide Road and Kelly's corner again (if looking for the shortest detour/not completely rerouting from much earlier in the journey), pumping more traffic into the very same area where you are complaining about congestion. There is also a large volume of both motorised and cyclist traffic that goes westbound to access premises on Hatch Street, and you're essentially cutting them off/forcing them a long way around.

This seems ill thought out at best

alane20

The 16 extending to luas in Dundrum is a very good idea, or continue to the beacon in sandyford, the number 1 could do the loop of boumount that the 16 currently does, also I feel time restrictions should be reintroduced, the buses and especially trains are clogged at Rush hours by people popping into town and are causing buses that are full to leave people going to or coming from work to be left stranded, or could a 50 cent social welfare charge not apply at this time frame, this would generate much needed income to help improve the service, the capacity is not going to be increased in the short term, the introduction of 24hr service on key routes needs to be brought in

Spanish Eyes

Orbital routes (forgive me if there are routes already, those living locally might know more!)

Shankill or Bray DART station to Brides Glen LUAS

Dundrum Shopping Centre to Red Cow LUAS

Lucan/Palmerstown to Kylemore LUAS

Tallaght to Blanchardstown

Swords to Blanchardstown/Liffey Valley/Tallaght.

I know you'd need a packed lunch for some of these routes, but if planners had only bought up more when building M50 for a bus corridor, sigh.... I know I'm dreaming!

And I also know that NTA or TFI or whatever they are called are in charge now. Why they have not even mooted some orbital/LUAS connections like this is beyond me.

Flat fare so no interraction with the driver with LEAP card required.

Reduce drastically the number of bus stops. Some are ridiculously close together!

devnull

Dundrum to red cow already exists via Dublin coach 750

jd

KC8 wrote:

Route 4 – Extend Route to Airport on the Northside via Northwood and to Cherrywood Luas via Cornelscourt on the Southside. Increase daytime frequency to every 10 mins.

Northwood Avenue is a private road at present, residents were against it being used for a bus route in the past.

Spanish Eyes

devnull wrote: »

Dundrum to red cow already exists via Dublin coach 750

Yes thanks I know, but OP was about DUBLIN BUS. Also, I don't think Dublin Coach accepts LEAP card (maybe it does), so that journey would not form part of the cap or the 90 minute transfer reduction either.

Kh1993

Route specific, (and very selfishly) I'd say take some 17A's out of Beaumont Hospital. At peak times, its a massive pinch point, can take 30 mins to get from Northside to Oscar Traynor (5 sets of traffic lights with no priority to get onto Oscar Traynor, can take 4/5 light sequences at 7/8am). Also upsets running time with knock on delays. Carries thin air to and from hospital at peak.

Similar could be said about the 16's diversion through Beaumont's narrow roads.

Make 142 an all day route.

Later departures (and/or night running). 23.30 last bus should be 00.00 at worst.

Airport: Extend 140, 27b, 33a/b to airport from current termini, possibly the 4 too.

Do something with fare and leap structure. 5 people getting on paying 2.05 takes longer to process than 5 cash paying people. That's not right, or an incentive to switch. Dwell times haven't improved with leap.

Bray Head

Kh1993 wrote: »

 Dwell times haven't improved with leap.

This is a major issue.

We should be aiming to move to the point where passenger interaction with the driver are as close to zero as possible.

hmmm

Add a second leap card validator on all buses to speed up loading.

Cash fares should be double the Leap fare.

Put some route timetables & maps at stops to avoid the "do you go to xyz?" questions - particularly for non-locals.

Consolidate stops that are within 500 metres of each other.

Cleaner buses intra-day. Get the drivers to open a few windows between trips.

Use the middle doors.

Public transport priority at junctions.

Keep the quays and other main bus routes free of anything but moving buses during rush hour. The quays are frequently clogged by by vans unloading and tour buses waiting for passengers.

More covered bus stops. Larger covers at busy locations. Build a few enclosed stops in very busy areas.

loyatemu

hmmm wrote: »

Consolidate stops that are within 500 metres of each other.

there are far too many stops and many of them are way too close together, but good luck getting rid of any of them. As soon as it's proposed to remove or merge stops, expect local politicians to get involved.

loyatemu

drake70 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Many people who who live south of Bray and who do not have access to a car use this service to reach St. Columcille's Hospital.

As RayM stated, switching at Bray is not always a desirable option. Especially if a person needs to keep an appointment.

run it to Cherrywood Luas only - it would still allow an increase in frequency.

sbs2010

In my experience the thing that ruins buses efficiency is the stop times more so than the traffic.

And it's the one thing that DB can actually control.


1. More leap validators - definitely 2 at the front door but possibly further down the bus and upstairs too. I see the reason behind validating in front of the driver but a few more inspectors could help get the message across.

2. Speed up the leap validators - they're way too slow. Some card types seem to take 2 seconds to process the transaction. That's got to be improved.

3. Too many stops. Within 5km of city centre paint every second stop blue. At rush hours, buses only stop at the blue ones.

snickerpuss

sbs2010 wrote: »

In my experience the thing that ruins buses efficiency is the stop times more so than the traffic.

And it's the one thing that DB can actually control.


1. More leap validators - definitely 2 at the front door but possibly further down the bus and upstairs too. I see the reason behind validating in front of the driver but a few more inspectors could help get the message across.

2. Speed up the leap validators - they're way too slow. Some card types seem to take 2 seconds to process the transaction. That's got to be improved.

3. Too many stops. Within 5km of city centre paint every second stop blue. At rush hours, buses only stop at the blue ones.

Most people on my routes are paying either cash or 2.05 on leap which means 90% of people getting the bus are waiting to use the validator operated by the driver. A second validator wouldn't help in this situation. I don't understand why you can only use max fare on the righthand validators as I can't imagine it's the most common fare. Annual tickets excluded obviously.

Dravokivich

snickerpuss wrote: »

Most people on my routes are paying either cash or 2.05 on leap which means 90% of people getting the bus are waiting to use the validator operated by the driver. A second validator wouldn't help in this situation. I don't understand why you can only use max fare on the righthand validators as I can't imagine it's the most common fare. Annual tickets excluded obviously.

It doesn't know where you are going to get off.

thomasj

well the NTA have the right idea with the BRT plans.

Pretty much ticket machines at the stops (far less than normal bus stops) and tickets are validated at the stop. No interaction with driver needed, 3 sets of doors open each time. frequent, plenty of space on bus and can carry 125+ pax

sounds like the perfect way to run buses in this country (if it ever gets going!)

lawred2

There are nowhere near enough 43 services at peak times. It's more often full than not by Clarehall and with the volume of housing development along Malahide Road to Clarehall this is only going to get worse.

lawred2

snickerpuss wrote: »

Most people on my routes are paying either cash or 2.05 on leap which means 90% of people getting the bus are waiting to use the validator operated by the driver. A second validator wouldn't help in this situation. I don't understand why you can only use max fare on the righthand validators as I can't imagine it's the most common fare. Annual tickets excluded obviously.

Would it be that hard to have tag on and tag off?

An urban system that requires queuing for a driver in the 21st century is laughable.

ArmaniJeanss

lawred2 wrote: »

Would it be that hard to have tag on and tag off?

An urban system that requires queuing for a driver in the 21st century is laughable.

The validator doesn't know its own physical location so wouldn't know what to charge you on tag-off.

loyatemu

could validators be put at stops for tag on/off (ok, again we run into the problem of too many stops)?

parking machines are solar powered, add in a 3G connection and you have a validator without requiring a load of civils - they could integrated into upgraded stop poles?

in fact the Big Belly bins that a lot of councils are installing are solar powered and have mobile comms to tell the owners when they're full, doesn't seem to me that on-street validators need to be any more complicated.

Dravokivich

loyatemu wrote: »

could validators be put at stops for tag on/off (ok, again we run into the problem of too many stops)?

parking machines are solar powered, add in a 3G connection and you have a validator without requiring a load of civils - they could integrated into upgraded stop poles?

in fact the Big Belly bins that a lot of councils are installing are solar powered and have mobile comms to tell the owners when they're full, doesn't seem to me that on-street validators need to be any more complicated.

That "works" for Irish Rail because it's a regular requirement to access and exit the major stations and for Luas due to their high use of inspectors. Won't for Dublin Bus due to their rare use of inspectors.

Also, I thought the the ticket machines should be hooked up to GPS now? meaning there will be no issue with the validator by the door knowing where it is. But if there is Tag On/Off you will get into memory restricted issues again as you'll be doubling the entries for each card use on a bus that takes a fare.

loyatemu

Dravokivich wrote: »

That "works" for Irish Rail because it's a regular requirement to access and exit the major stations and for Luas due to their high use of inspectors. Won't for Dublin Bus due to their rare use of inspectors.

Also, I thought the the ticket machines should be hooked up to GPS now? meaning there will be no issue with the validator by the door knowing where it is. But if there is Tag On/Off you will get into memory restricted issues again as you'll be doubling the entries for each card use on a bus that takes a fare.

how proactive are drivers in monitoring fare evasion anyway - people wave their leap cards at the validator and walk on, the driver is usually busy taking fares.

Dravokivich

loyatemu wrote: »

how proactive are drivers in monitoring fare evasion anyway - people wave their leap cards at the validator and walk on, the driver is usually busy taking fares.

They get a notification of the card type. So they can see if the person by the validator is using the correct one. The tones alert them to whether or not a fare was done.

loyatemu

Dravokivich wrote: »

They get a notification of the card type. So they can see if the person by the validator is using the correct one. The tones alert them to whether or not a fare was done.

fare enough

ideally they'd just be driving the bus though - as pointed out above the QBC proposals did seem to address many of the shortcomings of Dublin Bus, shame they seem to have been kicked into the long grass.

Spanish Eyes

Interesting thread.

So far I see dwell times being a big issue. Some suggestions, but not much will happen.

Will take another five years to implement some of the great ideas here.

BRT will taken ten years. LOL.

FWIW I don't think drivers should have any responsibility for fare evasion. The driver in his cab on the LUAS doesn't, neither does a train driver. Drivers are drivers, and the sooner there is no interraction with him/her the better.

Anyway. I agree also there are far too many bus stops far too close together. The recent revision of bus routes (can't remember what it was called), went relatively smoothly didn't it? So a few more metres to walk to the nearest stop shouldn't cause a general election either.

loyatemu

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Anyway. I agree also there are far too many bus stops far too close together. The recent revision of bus routes (can't remember what it was called), went relatively smoothly didn't it? So a few more metres to walk to the nearest stop shouldn't cause a general election.

"Network Direct" as it was called. Certainly any changes near me were resisted by local politicos.

as an example the 84 was to be changed from a low-frequency, slow route between Kilcoole and the city centre, to a higher frequency route between Kilcoole and Bray (from where people could transfer onto the 145 or the Dart). IIRC it would have doubled the number of services from Kilcoole each day.

Local FG councillor complained this would make life difficult for UCD students (of which he was one) to get to/from college, so compromise was the route was changed to Kilcoole-UCD with no increase in frequency, effectively the worst of both worlds.

DB subsequently rerouted it to Kilcoole-Blackrock so it no longer serves UCD at all, is still slow, and low-frequency, and now largely pointless. No stops were removed. I assume similar compromises took place elsewhere.

Idbatterim

certain bus routes should be 24 hours at this stage IMO, on the hour on some routes and half hour on busier ones maybe...

Spanish Eyes

loyatemu wrote: »

"Network Direct" as it was called. Certainly any changes near me were resisted by local politicos.

as an example the 84 was to be changed from a low-frequency, slow route between Kilcoole and the city centre, to a higher frequency route between Kilcoole and Bray (from where people could transfer onto the 145 or the Dart). IIRC it would have doubled the number of services from Kilcoole each day.

Local FG councillor complained this would make life difficult for UCD students (of which he was one) to get to/from college, so compromise was the route was changed to Kilcoole-UCD with no increase in frequency, effectively the worst of both worlds.

DB subsequently rerouted it to Kilcoole-Blackrock so it no longer serves UCD at all, is still slow, and low-frequency, and now largely pointless. No stops were removed. I assume similar compromises took place elsewhere.

That's ridiculous.

Any bus that connects to LUAS or DART is magic IMV.

Anyway, I take your point, but people who were affected (not just the councillor) should have resisted. I don't think people complain enough really. I know I don't, so I hold my hand up. I get a rash on me if I think I have to interract with politicians of any hue.

Many others are the same. So that's our/their problem really isn't it?

Must take a deep breath and just do it though if it affects me!

CIARAN_BOYLE

At certain times of the day some of the big cross city routes should be restricted to city centre only if it makes more capacity available on parts of the route.

More options for operators to run a curtailed route. A lot of people get my bus in the morning going to schools this extra loading of the route causes some passengers to be unable to get on. An empty bus departs the terminus 2 might uses after the bus I normally get and runs along the route for close to a third of the route passing 6 secondary schools. A curtailed run serving the schools would help people but the operatorsn dont have an option to run a curtailed route.

mickmmc

Re 33s going through Port Tunnel

Swords is the County Town of Fingal and a significant amount of passengers from Skerries/Rush/Lusk travel to Swords (Pavillons is the largest shopping centre in North County Dublin). Before Christmas the bus driver had to open the double doors on the 33 to Abbey St. at Main St. Swords and at Pavillons stop due to the amount of passengers getting off. A new local service would have to be put in place if the 33 was routed through the Port Tunnel and not go through Swords.

Re: 41s
If the Airport is the terminus, it would take longer for passengers from the Airport to travel to the City Centre as the bus would have to go to Swords Manor and back to the M1 again and onto the Tunnel. Also, capacity on the Swords Road/Drumcondra would be reduced; the 41s and 33s pick up a significant amount of passengers at Northwood/Santry/Whitehall church.

Re: 43
The frequency should be increased on this route

lawred2

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The validator doesn't know its own physical location so wouldn't know what to charge you on tag-off.

Which is laughable

BonnieSituation

The 18 links Lucan Road/Palmerstown and the Kylemore Luas. Linking Lucan to Clondalkin with the Red Cow wouldn't a be a bad shout though.

Extending the 18 to Liffey Valley leaves a swathe of Palmerstown (from the Coldcut to the N4) now with no service because you have also extended the 26 to Dodsboro. So no dice. Some of these cross city routes could do with a tightening up but they would be better off linking with existing services than being completely rerouted.

Some ideas make sense others less so. I would murder anyone who makes the 25A/25B extend to UCD. Its'a a pain as it is coming from Merrion Square in the evening (as well as the idiotic stop placements) but I can only imagine how hellish it would be wrt reliability if extended to UCD. Making routes longer is not how you make multimodal [sic] work or reliable.

XPS_Zero

loyatemu wrote: »

"Network Direct" as it was called. Certainly any changes near me were resisted by local politicos.

as an example the 84 was to be changed from a low-frequency, slow route between Kilcoole and the city centre, to a higher frequency route between Kilcoole and Bray (from where people could transfer onto the 145 or the Dart). IIRC it would have doubled the number of services from Kilcoole each day.

Local FG councillor complained this would make life difficult for UCD students (of which he was one) to get to/from college, so compromise was the route was changed to Kilcoole-UCD with no increase in frequency, effectively the worst of both worlds.

DB subsequently rerouted it to Kilcoole-Blackrock so it no longer serves UCD at all, is still slow, and low-frequency, and now largely pointless. No stops were removed. I assume similar compromises took place elsewhere.

Just getting minor changes to the 7 and 111 and 59 eliminating stops and turns saving up to 20 min were resisted by you gussed it RBB I think he's physically incapable of agreeing to anything and has to oppose everything

Then Dublin Bus in true stupidity finally put bus stops at the Brides Glen Luas......with no bus shelters in a high up high wind exposed area....

dfx-

Routewise, the major artery routes, the super long routes introduced to save money, need to be worked on intensely. The orbital routes run as well as can be expected largely enough (small tweaks like running times for the 238 which cannot make its journey in time).

The 13 and 16 are the problem children and need remedial action. The 27 and 40 are not far behind. Pretty much only the 14 has worked since its forced joining of two routes.

KC8 wrote: »

Route 56A – Replace with a shuttle around Ballymount to Red Cow Luas

The 56A works perfectly well as it is. Almost a poster child for the changes made from the appalling previous incarnation of the 56.

Zebra3

Have had the opportunity to spend a few weekends in Zurich over last few years.

DB heads and politicians need to get up off their arses and get over there to see how they do it.

Single decker buses with multiple doors opening at every stop, multiple validates on board and no interaction with the driver whatsoever. The driver does what he did when I was a kid. He simply drives the bus.

As a result of all this dwell times are incredibly low.

It's not rocket science but if implemented would save DB time and money, customers time and hopefully money and give people better quality lives.

Dravokivich

Zebra3 wrote: »

DB heads and politicians need to get up off their arses and get over there to see how they do it.

Single decker buses with multiple doors opening at every stop, multiple validates on board and no interaction with the driver whatsoever. The driver does what he did when I was a kid. He simply drives the bus.

NTA determine the services and provide the vehicles. Even though this thread is about what Dublin Bus do, it should be an appeal to NTA, more so than Dublin Bus.

trellheim

It should be remembered that DAA charge bus operators to stop at Dublin airport.

devnull

Dravokivich wrote: »

NTA determine the services and provide the vehicles. Even though this thread is about what Dublin Bus do, it should be an appeal to NTA, more so than Dublin Bus.

If you really think that if the NTA bought 3 door buses tomorrow, all of the problems would go away and Dublin Bus and the Unions would agree to use them for boarding and alighting and everything would run smoothly you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

Just because the NTA wants something, doesn't mean they will get it, anyone who has a clue about industrial relations and how public transport works at an operational level would know that.

Dravokivich

devnull wrote: »

If you really think that if the NTA bought 3 door buses tomorrow, all of the problems would go away and Dublin Bus and the Unions would agree to use them for boarding and alighting and everything would run smoothly you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

Just because the NTA wants something, doesn't mean they will get it, anyone who has a clue about industrial relations and how public transport works at an operational level would know that.

Not as close to Cuckoo land who think Dublin bus can just make these changes. The issue with multi door usage has often been cited as concerns about the conditions of stops. I'm on buses regularly that do use the centre doors when it's possible for the driver to do so.

hytrogen

KC8 wrote:

Sunday start times – Departures begin far too late. IMO, it is very sad to see so many retail businesses treating Sunday just like any other day, but the reality is that thousands of people have work to go to early on a Sunday morning, yet Dublin Bus don’t have a meaningful service to the city Centre until about 1000. This is even more acute on Bank Holidays when many international businesses are also open. Services along core routes should begin around 0700, like Luas.

Honour the Sabbath day... We are not America not should we go back to those stupid antics of pre 2007 work hours and retailpoxology!