"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forward

Daith · 20-05-2019 2:55pm

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Oh and I also liked the mention of Maester Aemon. That was nice.

Yes and the lingering shot of Ser Barristan Selmy's entry in the book.

Frankie5Angels · 20-05-2019 3:41pm

Tazzimus wrote: »

I'm not sure where people are getting Jon is fireproof from.
He burned himself killing the wight that attacked Jeor Motmont, he's not fireproof.
It's not even a common thing among the Targaryens.

He burned himself in season 1 of the tv series, probably before they knew where they were going with it and using Jon instead of 'Young Griff'?

Happily admit I don't know enough about the Targs to know how many of them are fireproof and how many aren't.

My point was I was wondering why Drogon left Jon alone despite the fact he was after killing Drogon's 'Mother'. Was a bit of a non-event ending of the dragon storyline for me, that's all.

Tazzimus · 20-05-2019 3:47pm

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

He burned himself in season 1 of the tv series, probably before they knew where they were going with it and using Jon instead of 'Young Griff'?

Happily admit I don't know enough about the Targs to know how many of them are fireproof and how many aren't.

My point was I was wondering why Drogon left Jon alone despite the fact he was after killing Drogon's 'Mother'. Was a bit of a non-event ending of the dragon storyline for me, that's all.

Drogon probably forgot he did it :pac:

For all we know, Jon could suddenly be fireproof, that's the kind of writing we're dealing with.
Viserys wasn't fireproof either and he was full Targ, not half Targ half Stark like Jon.

Dave_The_Sheep · 20-05-2019 3:51pm

Grey Worm is such an insufferable bellend.

Lone Stone · 20-05-2019 4:12pm

i love bran in the books, my favorite character next to jon. But in the show he's a mentally retarded creeper and now he has a crown and that was a ****ing abysmally insulting way to end the show i feel sorry for the cast and crew what a **** season.

Foxtrol · 20-05-2019 4:22pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

Sansa played the game right up until the end and I was surprised no one else chanced their arm once Bran agreed to allow the North be an independent Kingdom.....I mean not even Yara?

Yara had just been put back in her box by Arya, the Iron Islands are in a much weaker position than the North, and are much less predictable than the North so need to be kept in line. Out of all the Houses there the North makes the most sense to be independent, but they should have had Sansa make a better case for it (possibly through another House making the same request).

20-05-2019 4:43pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Yara had just been put back in her box by Arya, the Iron Islands are in a much weaker position than the North, and are much less predictable than the North so need to be kept in line. Out of all the Houses there the North makes the most sense to be independent, but they should have had Sansa make a better case for it (possibly through another House making the same request).

There's a pretty decent chance that Yara would prefer for the Iron Islands to be in the North's new kingdom if the couldn't secede. That would have made for a somewhat interesting extra minute at that meeting.

ckeng · 20-05-2019 4:45pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Yara had just been put back in her box by Arya, the Iron Islands are in a much weaker position than the North, and are much less predictable than the North so need to be kept in line. Out of all the Houses there the North makes the most sense to be independent, but they should have had Sansa make a better case for it (possibly through another House making the same request).

Who would she make a case to though? There's no ruler left, certainly no ruler with enough clout to say no. For me, once Sansa didn't buy into having a new king that should have been the end of the single ruler idea. Dorne and the Iron Islands secede, the Vale join the North and Gendry and Edmure try and sort out the rest between them, maybe Tyrion gets the Rock if he want's another crack at ruling.

leggo · 20-05-2019 4:51pm

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Was it really because D&D lost interest ahead of the Star Wars trilogy? I can't get my head around that, surely that could have waited another year, if they were the right people for the job. Finish what you started. Surely the Endgame (i'm sorry) is the most important part of their legacy?

It can't have been money? Surely HBO would have happily spent a few extra tens of millions on producing non-set piece episodes. Show a logic, build a tension. Imagine a few episodes of Dany walking around like Darth Vader, showing Jon struggle with the weight of his decision instead of a 10 minute chat with Tyrion...who could have walked up behind her and stabbed her himself as she was delivering her rally?

I think the Star Wars thing is just fans looking for a stick to beat them with by putting the two things they know about D&D together and assuming it must be true.

What's much more likely is that they broke down the episodes based out of what they have and went for 13 'great' episodes (regardless of what you thought of the finished product) all with major happenings than 20 mediocre episodes. Lack of source material definitely hurt, if they had the finished books they could make more natural climaxes out of happenings there. But that's on GRRM, not them. I'd imagine they also wanted to stay relatively faithful to the framework GRRM had laid out for them too and, again, without actual source material to work with they'd have to go their own way to flesh that out. The problem there is, if they did that, then they ran the risk of having to go with a different conclusion or their conclusion not making sense because they'd then have to double back to GRRM's story. It's all well and good us saying Dany should've had more time to lurk and be generally 'bad', but an hour of television is a long time and has to satiate an audience for a week so, if you don't have anywhere in particular to go with that, then you're better off leaving people wanting more.

So the rushed pace is most likely GRRM's fault. But instead he gets lionised by doing absolutely nothing and the people that actually do the work get slated. 2019 folks! :pac:

Foxtrol · 20-05-2019 4:56pm

ckeng wrote: »

Who would she make a case to though? There's no ruler left, certainly no ruler with enough clout to say no. For me, once Sansa didn't buy into having a new king that should have been the end of the single ruler idea. Dorne and the Iron Islands secede, the Vale join the North and Gendry and Edmure try and sort out the rest between them, maybe Tyrion gets the Rock if he want's another crack at ruling.

The wider group. Pretty much all the other Houses have new rulers and/or are severely weakened. It makes sense that an alliance amongst them under one wise, not power-hungry king would make sense are they rebuild. Go your route and you’re likely off to war again pretty quickly. With the north being isolated and with Sansa being the sister of the king, and related to 2 of the other strongest houses, unlikely to cause any hassle to the rest.

Sure they could have gone your route, but the way they did makes sense. It just should have been explained a bit better.

NeonWolf · 20-05-2019 5:18pm

So let me get this straight

The people who won the game of thrones are a cripple, a ginger bird, a midget, a fat kunt and Liam Cunningham.

Political correctness has gone too far by infiltrating fantasy tv.

20-05-2019 5:19pm

leggo wrote: »

So the rushed pace is most likely GRRM's fault. But instead he gets lionised by doing absolutely nothing and the people that actually do the work get slated. 2019 folks! :pac:

Finally clicked on your Twitter link in your signature. Is that latest post based on this one?

Keyzer · 20-05-2019 5:27pm

Necro wrote: »

It bugs you because the entire scenario makes absolutely no sense in fairness.

Jon disarms himself to speak to Tyrion who is a prisoner of the queen and accused of treason.

Yet is allowed to rearm himself and wander essentially un-noticed by all bar Drogon in to see Dany.

It was patently awful tbh.

And that's before I get going on 'Bran the Broken'.

It would have been better if he walked out and Greyworm said "Where's the Queen?" and Jon said "She's gone off for a jaunt on drogon, focked if I know where she is". Then a sly wink and Jon goes off the pub and gets locked...

Liam O · 20-05-2019 5:28pm

I like Bran winning based on Bloodraven basically running the kingdom while never getting the chance to be king. Now his heir (as such) has become the one thing he never could. I'm aware they didn't go the Bloodraven way in the show, will probably ret con it into one of the spin offs though...

Paddy Cow · 20-05-2019 5:28pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Why would Brienne not mention that Jaime knighted her?

She didn't need to. Tyrion and Pod were there when she was knighted. It is known.

Tazzimus · 20-05-2019 5:32pm

Paddy Cow wrote: »

She didn't need to. Tyrion and Pod were there when she was knighted. It is known.

It is known.

jebidiah · 20-05-2019 6:43pm

I'm glad the show is over. This last season has been terribly disappointing. Im not even sad or upset at anything.

I'm not 100% unhappy with where the characters ended up, but I'm very disappointed in the shortcut road they took to get there.

Sansa declaring the north a free and independent kingdom is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

1. Bran is the older male heir.
2. Jon Snow was the King in the North, not Sansa. He was declared, as was Robb, Sansa just took the crown?
3. Are the Dornish and Ironborn not going to maybe want to be independent now too?
4. Brandon Stark, the head of the ****ing whole house is the ****ing king of the 7 kingdoms.

Why would people GO BACK NORTH???

RobbingBandit · 20-05-2019 6:48pm

Brown Ben Plumm scenario for Jon Drogon could smell his Dragons blood, of course writers fail to make this clear absolute ****e really, the more I think about it the more I wanna break something.

You play the Game of Thrones you win or you die these cretins didn't die.

RobbingBandit · 20-05-2019 6:50pm

Did Tyrion tell Jon during his sentencing You will hold no titles?

PhlegmyMoses · 20-05-2019 6:52pm

Didn't hate where all of the characters ended up, but hated how the got them there. That is not an awful ending to the show but they made their way there terribly.

Foxtrol · 20-05-2019 6:56pm

RobbingBandit wrote: »

You play the Game of Thrones you win or you die these cretins didn't die.

As far as I can think, no one that was left alive actively worked towards getting the iron throne, so the saying was partly accurate.

ixoy · 20-05-2019 7:00pm

They could have handled the Bran stuff better. Have it over another episode and used it to show how people would look for concessions and advantages if they were to bend the knee to Bran. Show maybe some new alliances or other people indicating they'd do this for now but might look to see what the North had. It'd also have have folded in nicely in that it'd show the game of thrones never stops being played.

....... · 20-05-2019 7:08pm

It's interesting that the book reader thread has so few posts compared to the non book reader thread.

I wish we had seen a butterfly land on Grey Worm when he announced the Unsullied were off to Naath.

jebidiah · 20-05-2019 7:11pm

Jon taking the black makes a bit of sense actually. He doesn't want to be king, now he won't be. Won't hold titles so can't be declared, father no children, no kids with a claim etc etc

ixoy · 20-05-2019 7:15pm

....... wrote: »

It's interesting that the book reader thread has so few posts compared to the non book reader thread.

It also seems less.. angry. We're not as displeased it seems. Perhaps, for me, it's because I have little faith in the book material delivering *anything* nevermind anything better. I mean there's been some rightful criticism about how D&D wrote arcs after the book material ended, but the books themselves have lost a lot of their coherence and are, after the third book, not all that great themselves IMO.

Tazzimus · 20-05-2019 7:15pm

jebidiah wrote: »

I'm glad the show is over. This last season has been terribly disappointing. Im not even sad or upset at anything.

I'm not 100% unhappy with where the characters ended up, but I'm very disappointed in the shortcut road they took to get there.

Sansa declaring the north a free and independent kingdom is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

1. Bran is the older male heir.
2. Jon Snow was the King in the North, not Sansa. He was declared, as was Robb, Sansa just took the crown?
3. Are the Dornish and Ironborn not going to maybe want to be independent now too?
4. Brandon Stark, the head of the ****ing whole house is the ****ing king of the 7 kingdoms.

Why would people GO BACK NORTH???

1. Bran renounced his lordship, cos he was the three eyed raven and not Bran anymore. Except when they needed him to be king, then he was Bran again. Sansa has been Lady of Winterfell for a while now, possibly since battle of the bastards.

2. He gave up the King in the North title when he bent the knee to female Hitler.
3. Dorne should already be independent, they were the one that Aegon couldn't conquer. Ironborn just faded into the background as they usually do.
4. See 1

jebidiah · 20-05-2019 7:31pm

Tazzimus wrote: »

1. Bran renounced his lordship, cos he was the three eyed raven and not Bran anymore. Except when they needed him to be king, then he was Bran again. Sansa has been Lady of Winterfell for a while now, possibly since battle of the bastards.

2. He gave up the King in the North title when he bent the knee to female Hitler.
3. Dorne should already be independent, they were the one that Aegon couldn't conquer. Ironborn just faded into the background as they usually do.
4. See 1

All the lord's just laughed at the idea of democracy, I don't see how their attitudes to women in power would have changed either.

And no.1 doesn't make 4 make sense. They wouldn't have to bend the knee. Did he name him Bran Stark when he named him king?

I'll have to rewatch that scene...

Tazzimus · 20-05-2019 7:38pm

jebidiah wrote: »

All the lord's just laughed at the idea of democracy, I don't see how their attitudes to women in power would have changed either.

Is that in reference to Sansa or Dany?

jebidiah wrote: »

And no.1 doesn't make 4 make sense. They wouldn't have to bend the knee. Did he name him Bran Stark when he named him king?

I'll have to rewatch that scene...

Bran the broken I think is what he was called.
He said something to the effect of he didn't want to/couldn't be Lord of Winterfell due to being the Three Eyed Raven and not really Bran any more, dodgy writing means he can be King though.

Dave_The_Sheep · 20-05-2019 7:41pm

ixoy wrote: »

It also seems less.. angry. We're not as displeased it seems.

For me, I'm watching without any expectations. I've checked out and know the TV writers have butchered it. I think many, particularly book readers, are the same.

To quote my parents, "I'm not angry, I'm disappointed".

jebidiah · 20-05-2019 7:49pm

Tazzimus wrote: »

Is that in reference to Sansa or Dany?

Dany had a dragon, so the lords didn't say anything. And even Varys said the lords of westeros prefer men.

Tazzimus · 20-05-2019 7:53pm

jebidiah wrote: »

Dany had a dragon, so the lords didn't say anything. And even Varys said the lords of westeros prefer men.

Sansa also has the respect of most of the people at that meeting, something Dany did not have. If she made a ploy for Queen, she'd probably get majority of the backing.
Dany did have Drogon to keep them in check though.

20-05-2019 9:15pm

I'm kinda ok with the ending in theory like who ended up where but JAYSUS that was ****

Paddy Cow · 20-05-2019 9:20pm

jebidiah wrote: »

2. Jon Snow was the King in the North, not Sansa. He was declared, as was Robb, Sansa just took the crown?

As far as the Northern Lords were concerned, Jon p!ssed all over that title when he abdicated his position and bent the knee to Dany, a foreign ruler they didn't know. Sansa earned their respect and is the natural choice to rule the North. It will be interesting though when she gets married - will she lose the Stark name or will it be the start of noble women hyphenating their surname so that they can still keep it.

I think it would be kinda cool to do a revisit in ten years, like Tyrion said to Jon - see where everyone is then and if they've managed to keep the peace or if it's turned into another Game of Thrones. I can't see Yara going back to the Iron Islands and keeping peace with Bran when she sees Sansa ruling independently. Resentment will fester. Same with Dorne - they always wanted independence. Also I'd like to know what becomes of Drogon. You really can't have a dragon flying free who eats a tonne of livestock a day.

Of course D&D can't be let anywhere near such a reboot

Achasanai · 20-05-2019 9:20pm

Weird episode. I liked parts, but found other bits confusing.

Was there a missing scene between Jon killing Danny and then there being a convention on what to do with Tyrion/electing a king? It felt really jarring and confusing.

What is the wall for if the wildlings are no longer a threat and the WWs are all dead? Or are the wildlings a threat again? Was Jon going off to live with the wildlings or was it just a scavenger exercise?

The Bran stuff that's been mentioned before about him not actually being Bran anymore/wouldn't rule in the north/but happy enough to be king.

Arya suddenly deciding to be a sea explorer. Had she ever expressed an interest in this before? It seemed like they had run out of ideas as to where her character would go or GRRM told them how her character would end, but forgot to tell them how to write it convincingly.

The lack of mention of Tyrion in the book. Was it out of spite? Wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

I liked Sansa's story, but felt it was handled really badly. It could definitely have done with at least a scene explaining why Dorne and the Islands wouldn't have pushed for independence. Some sort of reasoning would help.

facehugger99 · 20-05-2019 9:45pm

I made my peace with GOT after episode 3 and 4 this season - really it's been on a downward curve since season 6.

TBH, I was actually fine with that episode - sure I could spend paragraphs nitpicking it apart but it was an ending, an ending I was ok with.

As a whole, a fantastic piece of television and will be sadly missed, by me anyway.

paulbok · 20-05-2019 9:57pm

jebidiah wrote: »

Jon taking the black makes a bit of sense actually. He doesn't want to be king, now he won't be. Won't hold titles so can't be declared, father no children, no kids with a claim etc etc

Well he didn't stay on the watch long, fëcked off beyond the wall with the Wildlings so is likely to get involved with someone eventually.

Necronomicon · 20-05-2019 10:01pm

It's hard to judge this episode in isolation. I think it was as good as could be expected when it's bearing the weight of five rushed and fumbling episodes preceding it.

I was generally happy with the resolutions (well, to varying degrees), but less happy with the journey there. I think the characters' various endings made sense, but you have to do this sort of mental gymnastics to imagine it happening more organically over a few hundred pages of a book (or even a few more show episodes). The fact that everything to do with succession happened within that five minute scene made it so jarring, and raised so many questions.

On Jon's resolution, I'm happy to see him retire with the free folk, but again the way it was handled was bad. Why would it matter what the Unsullied think when they're about to bugger off anyway? As soon as they're gone, couldn't he just be un-exiled? Regardless, the North is an independent kingdom now, so Sansa could easily pardon him. It would have made more sense if he just chose to go back there himself because he felt that's where he belonged.

lightspeed · 20-05-2019 10:05pm

paulbok wrote: »

Well he didn't stay on the watch long, fëcked off beyond the wall with the Wildlings so is likely to get involved with someone eventually.

There is too much money at stake. I'm aware they are working on a prequel but it looks like it's set up that at some point they will continue current story. Notice even her Dragon drogo is still knocking about. Arya off to discovered new lands that can have a whole new world with new characters and storylines.

Whatever happened to Arya and her many faces?

meep · 20-05-2019 10:05pm

Achasanai wrote: »

Arya suddenly deciding to be a sea explorer. Had she ever expressed an interest in this before? It seemed like they had run out of ideas as to where her character would go or GRRM told them how her character would end, but forgot to tell them how to write it convincingly.

She’d flagged this several seasons ago when involved with the troupe of thespians. Check this out:

https://youtu.be/Gnjyu2wHt08

cursai · 20-05-2019 10:06pm

What was Brianne doing writing Jamie's history. Wouldn't Sam have her up for defacing library books. Not to mention totally inaccurate. It's like she was writing on Wikipedia.

paulbok · 20-05-2019 10:10pm

I didn't find that episode as bad as the reviews I read earlier.
A few scenes to nitpick over, and I had to laugh at General Hux's speech to the first order on Starkiller Base.
No way guards wouldn't have rushed in when they heard Drogon burning the throne and Greyworm would have definitely killed Jon straight away.
Not sure what to make of King Bran, made some sense I suppose but made his 3 eyed Raven arc a bit pointless.

The biggest problem I had with it was that it was so rushed, Danerys' death was over with so quickly. Could easily have made two episodes of what happened after that.

As part of Season 8, it's overall disappointing for me for two reasons, firstly as mentioned, storylines were rushed beyond belief.
Secondly, so many story arcs ended up pointless, Jamie's redemption, the three eyed Raven, Jon's true heritage, Bronn.

s7ryf3925pivug · 20-05-2019 10:11pm

-We know you've no interest in ruling, but would you?
-That's why I came here.

Not the response he was expecting.

The start of the episode was good, maybe a nice prototype for The Empire. Emilia Clarke is a better actress than most people would have thought a month ago. Then a Tyrion explained things for people a bit who were still not accepting she was a baddie. Then everyone sat about and talked their way to everyone's individual happy endings.

Not really the oh wow ending that comes to mind with some of the previous seasons, but maybe that was the point. Maybe they could have had more time showing Emporer Dany and the tension between them and the Westerosi.

paulbok · 20-05-2019 10:14pm

cursai wrote: »

What was Brianne doing writing Jamie's history. Wouldn't Sam have her up for defacing library books. Not to mention totally inaccurate. It's like she was writing on Wikipedia.

Wasn't that the book of the Kingsguard? Nowt to do with Sam. It was in a scene a few years ago. As the new commander of the guard it was probably up to her to update it.
Guess her feelings for him made her polish his story up a bit.

s7ryf3925pivug · 20-05-2019 10:15pm

cursai wrote: »

What was Brianne doing writing Jamie's history. Wouldn't Sam have her up for defacing library books. Not to mention totally inaccurate. It's like she was writing on Wikipedia.

It's part of the role of the head of the kingsguard, so the implication is that is now her role.

OneOfThem Stumbled · 20-05-2019 10:15pm

The Hound Gone Wild wrote: »

The line about Tyrion not being mentioned in the Histories after Roberts rebellion sum up what the show became, nonsensical throwaway lines for a cheap laugh.

Tyrion's capture by Catelyn sparked the war of the 5 kings. He served as hand for 3 monarchs, and master of coin for a time. Was on trial for killing one king, defeated another at The Blackwater & killed the head of house lannister. Was married to the Queen in the North.

None of that worth a mention?

Varys: You take great offense at dwarf jokes, but love telling eunuch jokes. Why is that?
Tyrion: Because I have balls, and you don't.

was really the deafening announcement at the beginning of this series to tell us all how the writing quality would end up.

RobbingBandit · 20-05-2019 10:16pm

cursai wrote: »

What was Brianne doing writing Jamie's history. Wouldn't Sam have her up for defacing library books. Not to mention totally inaccurate. It's like she was writing on Wikipedia.

She was on the small council so I'd guess she's the head of Brans Kings Guard which is why she was filling in the pages for Jamie.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 20-05-2019 10:16pm

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

I sure hope so, that was just...bad. Like, people complained about the last episode. I didn't, mainly as I can understand it and there was things there. But there is no defending this. It was horrid.

Hoping that the previous episodes didn't have any influence on your opinion on this episode. Why was this episode terrible? What parts did not make sense or what did you not like about it?

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Cersei paid off the iron bank with the Highgarden wealth, Sam is a bloody novice he hasn't even forged his chain yet now he's Grand Maestar.

I believe Sam being promoted to Grand Maester is only there to serve as TV material. Sam has very little Maester training, let alone 40 years which is required. You could argue that he's something of a prodigy, but it's the conclave that decides who the Grand Maester to the Iron Throne will be, not the king. The reason why I think there might be an exception here, if you could believe that, is that Sam has been and absolute integral element in fighting the Night King, he also healed Ser Jorah Mormont of Grey Scale, is incredibly knowledgeable when it comes to the history of Westeros and killed a whitewalker. Sam, Sam killed a fcuking white walker.

Poor Tyrion those opening scenes poor poor Tyrion.

Oh man, I really feel for the guy. He chose the wrong queen and now his brother and sister are dead, along with countless innocents. I believe he's remorseful for his sisters death as he still had some hope she would cop on.

Ser Pod the chair pusher.

I love this character. Looks like he's Kingsguard now? Still a little too young and inexperienced, but that's TV.

How in the duck was the city including the port back up and running after a few weeks, these guys and their team of writers are gonna **** up Star Wars worse than Jar Jar

That port would have been running within hours/days of the battle, as it's logistically essential. Armies are amazing at this sort of thing.

The Hound Gone Wild wrote: »

The line about Tyrion not being mentioned in the Histories after Roberts rebellion sum up what the show became, nonsensical throwaway lines for a cheap laugh.

Tyrion's capture by Catelyn sparked the war of the 5 kings. He served as hand for 3 monarchs, and master of coin for a time. Was on trial for killing one king, defeated another at The Blackwater & killed the head of house lannister. Was married to the Queen in the North.

None of that worth a mention?

I think, and I am hoping, that it's just a joke and that Tyrion is in fact mentioned in the book several times.

Daith wrote: »

I liked watching the episode. Then I started to think about it more

Why didn't Grey Worm just kill Jon Snow? Why make him a prisoner?

Grey Worm is still a soldier and will do as commanded, that's how I understand it. It would be really out of character, and crappy writing, for Grey Worm to kill Jon.

Why is Grey Worm letting Tyrion, his other prisoner, decide who should be King?

TV :P, I am not really sure to be honest.

Why is everybody agreeing for Jon to go to the Wall, in order to satisfy an army who is leaving?

Is execution the alternative for Jon?

The White Wolf wrote: »

I find it difficult to believe the Unsullied and Dotraki played ball even if it was in their own interest.

I am not 100% sure what you mean here. Is it that they went home? I don't think they belonged in Westeros and I think they knew that too.

Necro wrote: »

They could have still had that ending in the North if Jon had just flown off on Drogon. Keeping him in Kings Landing as a prisoner where Greyworm had been slitting throats of prisoners not ten minutes prior just seemed ridiculous.

Grey worm was following orders. He's a soldier. It's all he knows.

pinkypinky wrote: »

Edmure tried to offer himself as king.

Was that what he was doing? I thought he was building himself up to declare. Never even thought of Edmure declaring himself. What a gobshíte :P

Things I didn't like:
Why would Brienne not mention that Jaime knighted her?
As above, Tyrion should absolutely be mentioned in the book.
Bran as king. Yeah, he's grand but zero personality

That 2 full seasons could have made this ending more satisfying but I suppose it'll do.

Is it customary to write who knighted who in the Kingsguard book? It may have been done before, but I don't think it's too important.

I think Bran, although somewhat sucker punching me, is a good choice for a king. It fits with "breaking the wheel" and he has no vested interests from what I can see. Bran has shown to be a good leader previously, when he tells Maester Luwin "if we can't help them when they need us, why should they help us" (that's not an accurate quote, sorry). He is honorable. I believe his quote in the show when Meera Reed asked him about him being Brandon; “I’m not, really. Not anymore. I remember what it felt like to be Brandon Stark, but I remember so much else now.”

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

Sansa: was always going to come out of this with something. Liked her consistency in that she wouldn't even bend the knee to Bran.

Great character. Really enjoyed her development and she really knew how to play the game. I think if there's a winner here, it's Sansa.

Jon: Follows the fate of Aemon Tagaryen it would seem. Glad Ghost finally got the attention he deserved, but a bit of a 'meh' ending for Jon. Being held prisoner, saying nothing of his birthright in the end...hmmmm.

However much I wanted him to become the king and for everybody to have a big group hug at the end. It's not true to his nature. I think he would make a terrible leader. Remember Tywins lecture to Tommen about the previous kings and their flaws, well if they spoke about Jon, being too honorable would have been his flaw.

No Worm: Worst character in the series. Useless. Beyond useless. Hated him. Makes Jar Jar Binks look like an Oscar-winning role. Corny ould sh1te sending him off to Naath. He killed a lot of innocents, he should have been killed.

Many opportunities to introduce some color to this drab, boring and almost pointless character. I really wanted to like him, but the accent and the blandness of him (and the unsullied) was just awful.

Tyrion: His decline as a character in this season is horrific. From mastermind to idiot. Pretty unrealistic end too: 'you shouldn't let me speak, for me speaking has resulted in many dying'. *speaks anyway, names Bran king*. Everyone else: "let's listen to the prisoner in ragged clothes who's responsible for the death of many and make Bran king and also change the way our ruler is chosen".

The Lords and Ladies present know Tyrion and even though he is a prisoner to a foreigner (how long are the unsullied in westeros?), there's an element of respect. They know he's smart and what he has to say, even if the show butchered that in the last couple of episodes, is worth listening to.

Arya: Ugh.

Careful now...

Bronn: what a terrible end to a great character.

Oh I couldn't disagree more. A sellsword who has risen up to be on the small council. What a glorious ending.

Drogon: I'm not sure why he didn't roast Jon (who prob would have survived) when he realised Dany was brown bread. Pretty poor, pointless ending for the dragons.

Thinking about this too. My theory is that Drogon knows that Jon was loved by Danerys. Drogon didn't witness the regicide. His fire breathing was out of frustration or anger. I don't know man, it's a dragon, what in the dusty fcuk do we know about dragons?

They'll prob not be published, but I hope the books serve up better fare than this last season.

I sure hope they are published

. I don't think there's any comparrison between novel and film/TV. Generally, I find books to be far better than their TV counterparts.

jebidiah wrote: »

All the lord's just laughed at the idea of democracy, I don't see how their attitudes to women in power would have changed either.

I don't think there's much, if any, objection to women rulers in the books or the TV show. There's some hints here and there to the contrary, but they can be classified as the opinions of a minority. The female leaders, with little or no objection are:

Lady Mormont (Incredibly stoic)
Sansa
Arya
Brienne (First female knight?)
Mellisandra
Cersei
Lysa Arryn
Rhaenys and Visenya (of the Westerosi lore)
Meera Reed
Yara Greyjoy
Chella of the Black Ears
Sand Snakes and their mother.
Karsi, wildling leader killed by children at Eastwatch by the Sea.
Osha
Ygritte?

Not all are leaders of armies, but they held power and people listened to what they had to say. They led.

All in all, I enjoyed the show. I was quite satisfied with the ending and I am happy with where the characters went (apart from Sandor Clegene). I think the last 2 seasons were quite rushed and some characters needed more development. Ned would certainly be proud of his kids, and each of them got what they wanted back in season 1, Sansa is queen, Jon is back at the wall (or is he a wildling???) and Arya is most certainly not a lady :P

There's certainly more than 13 episodes of material for Díckhead and Dípshít to work with. They could have gone to 20 episodes, and maybe even possibly 30 if they wanted to. But alas, other projects call and that's the story of life.

OneOfThem Stumbled · 20-05-2019 10:30pm

paulbok wrote: »

Not sure what to make of King Bran, made some sense I suppose but made his 3 eyed Raven arc a bit pointless.

The entire series kept telling us that power resides only where people believe it resides. Why does a king have power? Because people obey him. Why do people obey him?

Bran is not a legitimate ruler. He is not heir. There's thousands of years of history stating that the oldest male heir is the one who should inherit. As Stannis said, "every law in Westeros" affirms this. Or as Robb said, "Bran cannot be lord of Winterfell before me". That's the way things are done there, for better or worse.

What army, what constitution, what holy writ backs up this upending of tradition? A dozen people voted, at the behest of Tyrion for Bran (the only candidate). Some of the people voting were not even lords. The Vale got two votes, the Reach got zero votes. Pretty fair distribution there.

Bran cannot father children, therefore the kingdom is liable to be thrown into chaos upon his death... if he can die. He is theoretically immortal after all. Who will back up this new idea of the lords and ladies voting on a successor? What force will stop someone using force of arms to ensure they become de facto leader of the kingdom?

If there even is a united kingdom in the first place. Why wouldn't all seven kingdoms just break away? What would force their obedience? Dorne and the Iron Islands have been nortoriously fickle in their allegiance to the Iron throne, constantly attempting the break away (even when the Iron Throne was strong). Now that it is non-existent, they will just accept Bran as their overlord?

Bran as ruler is possibly worse than Daenerys, who was certainly worse than Cersei, who in turn was worse than Joffrey.

Stories are what unite people? Then let's replace the guards and politicians with librarians. Idiotic writers. Damn.

razorblunt · 20-05-2019 10:40pm

Stories are what unite people? Let’s free Aegon Targaeryan so, people won’t believe what’s happened to him.
As an episode it was ok, some fantastic cinematography but the ending would have had a greater impact if the series wasn’t as rushed.

Why was Bronn so quick to not tell Brann where Drogon was last seen?

razorblunt · 20-05-2019 10:46pm

jebidiah wrote: »

Jon taking the black makes a bit of sense actually. He doesn't want to be king, now he won't be. Won't hold titles so can't be declared, father no children, no kids with a claim etc etc

Was it not a case they told Greyworm that but in reality he’s not part of the watch he’s gone North-North?

I decided to watch Thronecast for the first time, holy shít it’s awful.

"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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