"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forward

Nody · 18-05-2019 6:42pm #1

Note anything after this post may contain spoilers for the episode; do not read or open this thread until you have watched the whole episode!!!

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The "Next Episode" and any speculation on what may come in the future episodes should be put in the appropriate stickied Season 8 speculation thread; any funny pictures from the episode should be posted in this thread until Wednesday rather than the funny picture thread.

Note - No spoilers required for the current episode in this thread.

RobbingBandit · 20-05-2019 1:51am

The end has come the one thing I have enjoyed most about this show is the haunting score greatest music on a TV show ever.

mrkiscool2 · 20-05-2019 3:29am

So...this is the ending of the books too? What the fcuk? Like, the whole "A Song of Ice and Fire" we knew that was coming but the rest of it? Wow, I just want to read Winds of Winter and not a Dream of Spring now...that was bad. Like, Dexter finale level bad and I never thought I'd say that about any show again.

Barna77 · 20-05-2019 3:56am

So this was the grand finale?

jim-jam · 20-05-2019 4:06am

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

So...this is the ending of the books too? What the fcuk? Like, the whole "A Song of Ice and Fire" we knew that was coming but the rest of it? Wow, I just want to read Winds of Winter and not a Dream of Spring now...that was bad. Like, Dexter finale level bad and I never thought I'd say that about any show again.

Part of me thinks George is going to change the ending after he sees the reaction from this.

mrkiscool2 · 20-05-2019 4:08am

jim-jam wrote: »

Part of me thinks George is going to change the ending after he sees the reaction from this.

I sure hope so, that was just...bad. Like, people complained about the last episode. I didn't, mainly as I can understand it and there was things there. But there is no defending this. It was horrid.

Sonovagun · 20-05-2019 4:10am

The ending of the books will be the Battle against the Nights King.

They made the Three Eyed Raven King, not Bran, Brandon Stark is dead.

Also Sam abandoned Gilly and his two children to become a maester!

Just a couple of things that bugged me

jim-jam · 20-05-2019 4:15am

Sonovagun wrote: »

Also Sam abandoned Gilly and his two children to become a maester!

Jesus. Didn't think of that!

LionelNashe · 20-05-2019 4:19am

I thought the tone was good. The visuals near the start, with the falling ash (and snow?), were great. Everything was wrapped up. Surprised at Bran being made king, but he's a good choice.

I'm glad Jaime's pages got filled in. I was thinking about it last week but I thought the book was ashes. Brienne should have mentioned him charging the dragon; that was his finest moment (and it's how he should have died.)

GRRM has plenty of scope to put a different ending on the books, so I'd be surprised if his ending was the same. I do think Dany never deserved to be Queen, though, because of her propensity for killing people in horrible ways, so I still see her failing in some way and getting killed.

RobbingBandit · 20-05-2019 4:32am

Cersei paid off the iron bank with the Highgarden wealth, Sam is a bloody novice he hasn't even forged his chain yet now he's Grand Maestar.

Poor Tyrion those opening scenes poor poor Tyrion.

Ser Pod the chair pusher.

How in the duck was the city including the port back up and running after a few weeks, these guys and their team of writers are gonna **** up Star Wars worse than Jar Jar

The Hound Gone Wild · 20-05-2019 4:37am

The line about Tyrion not being mentioned in the Histories after Roberts rebellion sum up what the show became, nonsensical throwaway lines for a cheap laugh.

Tyrion's capture by Catelyn sparked the war of the 5 kings. He served as hand for 3 monarchs, and master of coin for a time. Was on trial for killing one king, defeated another at The Blackwater & killed the head of house lannister. Was married to the Queen in the North.

None of that worth a mention?

Kunkka · 20-05-2019 5:52am

I saw a wolf, so I am happy considering the expectations I had...

I thought the 7 kingdoms would be broken up completely, I was nearly right

Not sure how the books can end in this way though. I believe the Jon and Dany stuff will be pretty accurate, along with Cersei and Jaime's ending. Tyrion will be hand, but I really am not sure GRRM will have Bran as king of the 6 kingdoms. Sansa was always going to rule the North and I believe the books will lead her to it. The ending for Ayra was very hollow.

It ended how the books began though, a man in black heading into the woods, that wasn't a concidence and I reckon that is actually how the books will end too.

awec · 20-05-2019 7:35am

The Adventures of Arya Stark spin-off show incoming...

awec · 20-05-2019 7:46am

So Bran, the one character with nothing at all to do with the game of thrones, wins the game of thrones. I find the manner in how this came to be very implausible, but that's been a common theme in this new rushed GOT where plot takes a back seat for production.

And everyone just agrees to an independent north, even the Iron Islands, who were promised independence by Dany, and Dorne, who have always wanted independence. Amazing really, Tyrion Lannister could fix brexit.

Fourier · 20-05-2019 7:47am

I'm not sure how similar the books will be. Some deaths almost certainly won't play out the same way (e.g. Tommen given his age) and for major events the White Walkers are a beautiful Fae race in books. I'd imagine there is some twist or complexity to them that hasn't been shown in the show. D&D said they never got the complete details on them from Martin.

Then there's the Horn of Winter, the different position Stannis is in, Euron has the dragonbinder and loads of other details. Hard to know

Nody · 20-05-2019 7:48am

awec wrote: »

The Adventures of Arya Stark spin-off show incoming...

That or the Unsullied's quest for revenge; the new queen of the north or hey we can make a spin off about John and the Wildlings with some hot giant action on the side for our favorite read headed wildling... As far as I recall they had 4 to 6 potential spin offs so they all felt a bit forced to set them up basically.

Daith · 20-05-2019 8:02am

I liked watching the episode. Then I started to think about it more

Why didn't Grey Worm just kill Jon Snow? Why make him a prisoner?

Why is Grey Worm letting Tyrion, his other prisoner, decide who should be King?

Why is everybody agreeing for Jon to go to the Wall, in order to satisfy an army who is leaving?

Things I liked or found amusing:

Did Podrick become Hodor 2.0?

Jon reuniting with Ghost and Drogon bringing Dany back East.

The first 20 minutes had a great tone, Dany the victor, the conquering army, the ash everywhere. It was great.

Nody · 20-05-2019 8:08am

Daith wrote: »

The first 20 minutes had a great tone, Dany the victor, the conquering army, the ash everywhere. It was great.

I liked it EXCEPT for the fact Dany had to be wearing all black Leather like an evil Lord or seeing it's D&D Darth Vader. Why black? Why not white or grey as she had before but no, it has to be tight fitted black leather to show how evil incarnate she is.

Second part; did anyone notice how Ghost changed drastically in size from when he was cuddled (size of a small horse) to when he was running out (medium dog size)?

Daith · 20-05-2019 8:09am

Nody wrote: »

I liked it EXCEPT for the fact Dany had to be wearing all black Leather like an evil Lord or seeing it's D&D Darth Vader. Why black? Why not white or grey as she had before but no, it has to be tight fitted black leather to show how evil incarnate she is.

Haha, yes it's not subtle. The image of her with Drogon's wings behind her too. Plus the Unsullied (who seem to multiple like rabbits) looking very er, Nazi like.

I still liked it though.

Kunkka · 20-05-2019 8:34am

Nody wrote: »

Second part; did anyone notice how Ghost changed drastically in size from when he was cuddled (size of a small horse) to when he was running out (medium dog size)?

This was pretty funny

Daith · 20-05-2019 8:40am

Nody wrote: »

Second part; did anyone notice how Ghost changed drastically in size from when he was cuddled (size of a small horse) to when he was running out (medium dog size)?

Yes but I'm glad Jon got to pet him. I thought they were going to go with another nod.

20-05-2019 9:15am

Daith wrote: »

Yes but I'm glad Jon got to pet him. I thought they were going to go with another nod.

The Pet That Was Promised.

Barna77 · 20-05-2019 9:28am

I thought Grey Worm would cut Tyrion's "worm". Which would have been a fair punishment :pac:

The White Wolf · 20-05-2019 9:32am

I find it difficult to believe the Unsullied and Dotraki played ball even if it was in their own interest.

Necro · 20-05-2019 9:44am

Fourier wrote: »

I'm not sure how similar the books will be. Some deaths almost certainly won't play out the same way (e.g. Tommen given his age) and for major events the White Walkers are a beautiful Fae race in books. I'd imagine there is some twist or complexity to them that hasn't been shown in the show. D&D said they never got the complete details on them from Martin.

Then there's the Horn of Winter, the different position Stannis is in, Euron has the dragonbinder and loads of other details. Hard to know

I really like your optimism that the books will actually be published Four

Sadly I think this is the ending we're getting and Martin is off to work on Arya the Explorer featuring Swiper the Fox.

awec · 20-05-2019 9:46am

I think Bran as King will be the ending in the book, but it will be properly explained in the book, with events in the build up to it to make it plausible.

The way it happened in the show doesn't make sense. Just don't feel there was anywhere near enough plot development for it to happen. Tyrion's explanation for picking him was thin at best. Bran accepting it, when he previously said he could never be lord or anything, needed more explanation.

For all the various Lords to select a King on a whim doesn't seem right. They went from deciding what to do with Tyrion, to deciding to electing a King, to electing a King in the space of about 10 minutes.

fitz · 20-05-2019 9:46am

Kinda feel like it would have worked better if Jon had siezed power after killing Dany, with the scene in the dragon pit being where he reveals to everyone that instead of pressing his legitimate claim, he's abdicating and heading north, and they need to sort everything out for themselves.

Sonovagun · 20-05-2019 9:48am

Bran is a tree now, he's not sitting in any throne.

20-05-2019 9:48am

Daith wrote: »

Drogon bringing Dany back East.

I liked that. Westeros was never her home.

Necro · 20-05-2019 9:48am

fitz wrote: »

Kinda feel like it would have worked better if Jon had siezed power after killing Dany, with the scene in the dragon pit being where he reveals to everyone that instead of pressing his legitimate claim, he's abdicating and heading north, and they need to sort everything out for themselves.

They could have still had that ending in the North if Jon had just flown off on Drogon. Keeping him in Kings Landing as a prisoner where Greyworm had been slitting throats of prisoners not ten minutes prior just seemed ridiculous.

The White Wolf · 20-05-2019 9:54am

Have to say I enjoyed Arya putting Yara in her box.

Daith · 20-05-2019 9:55am

Deleted User wrote: »

I liked that. Westeros was never her home.

Yup, or Drogon's for that matter. He lost his mother and siblings going West.

The White Wolf wrote: »

Have to say I enjoyed Arya putting Yara in her box.

I found the "I know a killer when I see one" to be clunky but no issue with Arya being protective of Jon.

I do wonder if Bran know what is west of Westeros.

fitz · 20-05-2019 10:01am

Necro wrote: »

They could have still had that ending in the North if Jon had just flown off on Drogon. Keeping him in Kings Landing as a prisoner where Greyworm had been slitting throats of prisoners not ten minutes prior just seemed ridiculous.

Nah, Drogon was Dany's. Jon flying off on him would have been too much imo.
He could have been out to the northern forces before anyone knew what had happened.

jonsnow · 20-05-2019 10:34am

fitz wrote: »

Nah, Drogon was Dany's. Jon flying off on him would have been too much imo.
He could have been out to the northern forces before anyone knew what had happened.

But he probably just marched out and told them what he he had done which is consistent with his character.

Its a bit of a stretch that he wasn't executed on the spot but if dany is dead and theres an army of angry northerners outside then maybe just maybe Grey Worm decided to hold off.

One thing I do like is that the starks are now de facto rulers of the Westerosi continent from Dorne to the lands of always winter. Does any of it make any sense - who cares!!!!

Daith · 20-05-2019 10:41am

I thought Bran could only see the present and past (though him seeing the wildfire and Drogon flying over Kings Landing did kinda disprove that).

Now with confirmation he can see the future, did he manipulate everything and everyone to become King?

pinkypinky · 20-05-2019 10:56am

Not so much a bang as a whimper.

Things I liked:

Drogon checking if Dany was alive and then picking her gently up and flying away. Well done and impressive to inject pathos into a CGI dragon.
Jon and Ghost
Sansa as queen in the north
The moment of levity when Sam suggested democracy and when Edmure tried to offer himself as king.

Things I didn't like:
Why would Brienne not mention that Jaime knighted her?
As above, Tyrion should absolutely be mentioned in the book.
Bran as king. Yeah, he's grand but zero personality

That 2 full seasons could have made this ending more satisfying but I suppose it'll do.

Daith · 20-05-2019 11:10am

Sansa's weirwood leaf coronation dress was beautiful.

paulbok · 20-05-2019 11:25am

awec wrote: »

I think Bran as King will be the ending in the book, but it will be properly explained in the book, with events in the build up to it to make it plausible.

The way it happened in the show doesn't make sense. Just don't feel there was anywhere near enough plot development for it to happen. Tyrion's explanation for picking him was thin at best. Bran accepting it, when he previously said he could never be lord or anything, needed more explanation.

For all the various Lords to select a King on a whim doesn't seem right. They went from deciding what to do with Tyrion, to deciding to electing a King, to electing a King in the space of about 10 minutes.

My guess for the books is that the White Walkers threat doesn't get completely resolved, they get beaten but reawaken somehow in the North.
Gives a valid reason for making Bran king, to better prepare the 7 kingdoms for the next WW invasion.
Also a reason for Jon to take the black and rebuild the wall/ Nightswatch.

20-05-2019 11:45am

jonsnow wrote: »

But he probably just marched out and told them what he he had done which is consistent with his character.

Its a bit of a stretch that he wasn't executed on the spot but if dany is dead and theres an army of angry northerners outside then maybe just maybe Grey Worm decided to hold off.

One thing I do like is that the starks are now de facto rulers of the Westerosi continent from Dorne to the lands of always winter. Does any of it make any sense - who cares!!!!

Many were complaining about the cutaway from when Jon/Bran went to tell Arya and Sansa about his Targaryen lineage in episode 4. It's the cutaway in the finale after Jon kills Dany which bugs me though.

I'm trying to envision a scenario where Jon comes out of the Throne room, confesses what he has done, and the Unsullied/Dothraki don't murder him on the spot.

Maybe Jon went to Grey Worm and opened with something like "I'm about to tell you something, but if you kill me, thousands of my people will wipe you and your people out of existence. You must give me a trial...'

Yep, it's a stretch. Grey Worm's actor did try his best to seem pissed in the Dragon Pit that his Queen and saviour was murdered in cold blood, but the material just wasn't there for him to do much with - "Grrr, not enough"...He had reverted to unknowing foreigner for this scene, yet in other recent episodes he was speaking the 'common tongue' more fluently than Jon Snow.

Frankie5Angels · 20-05-2019 11:46am

Overall I think this episode did a decent job of wrapping things up given what happened before. The problem lies in the rushed 5 piles of sh1te before this.

Bran: So he's just been plodding along letting stuff happen so he could be king? Ok, flesh it out a bit then, give us a bit of background.

Sansa: was always going to come out of this with something. Liked her consistency in that she wouldn't even bend the knee to Bran.

Dany: to paraphrase another HBO show, she was always gonna 'get got' after the last one. I'm indifferent to her death, but her supposed madness felt a bit 'Revenge of the Sith'. 'I'm the dark lord, you should kill me per your training and beliefs up to now but I can help you, go kill younglings'. 'Okey dokey, boss'.

Jon: Follows the fate of Aemon Tagaryen it would seem. Glad Ghost finally got the attention he deserved, but a bit of a 'meh' ending for Jon. Being held prisoner, saying nothing of his birthright in the end...hmmmm.

No Worm: Worst character in the series. Useless. Beyond useless. Hated him. Makes Jar Jar Binks look like an Oscar-winning role. Corny ould sh1te sending him off to Naath. He killed a lot of innocents, he should have been killed.

Tyrion: His decline as a character in this season is horrific. From mastermind to idiot. Pretty unrealistic end too: 'you shouldn't let me speak, for me speaking has resulted in many dying'. *speaks anyway, names Bran king*. Everyone else: "let's listen to the prisoner in ragged clothes who's responsible for the death of many and make Bran king and also change the way our ruler is chosen".

Arya: Ugh.

Bronn: what a terrible end to a great character.

Drogon: I'm not sure why he didn't roast Jon (who prob would have survived) when he realised Dany was brown bread. Pretty poor, pointless ending for the dragons.

They'll prob not be published, but I hope the books serve up better fare than this last season.

Necro · 20-05-2019 11:51am

Deleted User wrote: »

Many were complaining about the cutaway from when Jon/Bran went to tell Arya and Sansa about his Targaryen lineage in episode 4. It's the cutaway in the finale after Jon kills Dany which bugs me though.

I'm trying to envision a scenario where Jon comes out of the Throne room, confesses what he has done, and the Unsullied/Dothraki don't murder him on the spot.

Maybe Jon went to Grey Worm and opened with something like "I'm about to tell you something, but if you kill me, thousands of my people will wipe you and your people out of existence. You must give me a trial...'

Yep, it's a stretch. Grey Worm's actor did try his best to seem pissed in the Dragon Pit that his Queen and saviour was murdered in cold blood, but the material just wasn't there for him to do much with - "Grrr, not enough"...He had reverted to unknowing foreigner for this scene, yet in other recent episodes he was speaking the 'common tongue' more fluently than Jon Snow.

It bugs you because the entire scenario makes absolutely no sense in fairness.

Jon disarms himself to speak to Tyrion who is a prisoner of the queen and accused of treason.

Yet is allowed to rearm himself and wander essentially un-noticed by all bar Drogon in to see Dany.

It was patently awful tbh.

And that's before I get going on 'Bran the Broken'.

20-05-2019 11:58am

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

Bronn: what a terrible end to a great character.

Agreed. What exactly has he done for the story since he saved Jaime from Drogon fire last season?

He should have went out in that episode in a literal blaze of glory. He took a shot at Drogon with a ballista, he scurried around and got one of those GoT trademark tracking shots to follow him in that dragon attack, Bronn was genuinely scared and the stakes were never higher for him in the show.

With GRRM writing that (not saying he's going to put that in the books, just an example), Bronn wouldn't have survived and would have bowed out then. Even Jaime might have died too rather than survive a face-to-face with Drogon.

But no, not in this show where Bronn is a 'fan favourite' and executives and showrunners are focused on things such as 'Q scores' (a measurement of the familiarity of a brand, company or in this case, a character)

Cantona's Collars · 20-05-2019 12:03pm

Necro wrote: »

It bugs you because the entire scenario makes absolutely no sense in fairness.

Jon disarms himself to speak to Tyrion who is a prisoner of the queen and accused of treason.

Yet is allowed to rearm himself and wander essentially un-noticed by all bar Drogon in to see Dany.

It was patently awful tbh.

And that's before I get going on 'Bran the Broken'.

It's protocol that nobody gets to see prisoners while armed.
He's been beside Dany all this time and never questioned her,there was no reason for anyone to challenge him plus having a big dragon sat outside the door makes a pretty good watchdog.
Drogon is used to him so let him pass, anyone else might have had a problem though.

blanch152 · 20-05-2019 1:34pm

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

Drogon: I'm not sure why he didn't roast Jon (who prob would have survived) when he realised Dany was brown bread. Pretty poor, pointless ending for the dragons.

.

Drogon wasn't going to kill the last Targaryen.

Frankie5Angels · 20-05-2019 1:50pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Drogon wasn't going to kill the last Targaryen.

But sure how was he to know?

Riddle101 · 20-05-2019 2:04pm

After reflecting on the ending, I think i'm ok with how they finished things.

I always thought that Jon would sit the Iron Throne because he made a natural leader and his history speaks for itself, but the more I think about it, the more I think Jon wasn't really made for it. Jon never wanted to be king. He was always conflicted about being a leader and having to deal with all the political bulls*it and backstabbing. Having Jon become a Wilding makes more sense because it gives him a chance to finally be free. I think we all want to be free when it comes down to it, and now Jon has his freedom among the Wildings who have accepted Jon and have a good relationship with him.

Sansa ensuring the North remains independent was an interesting move, but it makes sense. An independent North is for the better I think. Although personally I think the Seven Kingdoms should have been allowed to remain independent and go back to the way things were before Aegon's Conquest.

Bran being king was totally unforeseen but I'll accept it because he has the wisdom for it I guess.

One thing that stands out to be is the Dothraki. What happens to them now that Daenerys is dead? I'd imagine the Six Kingdoms will have their hands full dealing with the Dothraki.

Tazzimus · 20-05-2019 2:16pm

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

Drogon: I'm not sure why he didn't roast Jon (who prob would have survived) when he realised Dany was brown bread. Pretty poor, pointless ending for the dragons.

I'm not sure where people are getting Jon is fireproof from.
He burned himself killing the wight that attacked Jeor Motmont, he's not fireproof.
It's not even a common thing among the Targaryens.

Daith · 20-05-2019 2:26pm

Riddle101 wrote: »

One thing that stands out to be is the Dothraki. What happens to them now that Daenerys is dead? I'd imagine the Six Kingdoms will have their hands full dealing with the Dothraki.

They'll remember they all actually died during The Long Night and cease to exist.

Mr.Prodston · 20-05-2019 2:40pm

Yikes....

I can't really muster the energy to dissect things like I used to a few years ago. And that in itself sums up the show for me now.

Generally speaking, everyone ending up where they did made some semblance of sense (okay a lot of it didn't either)!

But, what's the point in everyone getting to those places if the journey to get there DOES NOT make sense. GoT was a show that built up to things happening, you could see the reasoning play out on screen, or the ground work for a TWIST to occur. Sure in the middle seasons I didn't necessarily like the direction of certain actions but they at least presented reasons why they occurred!

I have 100's of questions which I'd like answers to but the main question is: Why not do 10 episodes in season 7 and 10 episodes in season 8?

Keep the structure of the show intact.

Was it really because D&D lost interest ahead of the Star Wars trilogy? I can't get my head around that, surely that could have waited another year, if they were the right people for the job. Finish what you started. Surely the Endgame (i'm sorry) is the most important part of their legacy?

It can't have been money? Surely HBO would have happily spent a few extra tens of millions on producing non-set piece episodes. Show a logic, build a tension. Imagine a few episodes of Dany walking around like Darth Vader, showing Jon struggle with the weight of his decision instead of a 10 minute chat with Tyrion...who could have walked up behind her and stabbed her himself as she was delivering her rally?

That's before we get to Bran. Who I like. We know there's an element of sense to his appointment, but demonstrate to us why? This guy has rolled around saying creepy things and giving us no answers for the season. A little intrigue, a little backstory with the Night King.....did he know Dany was going to burn KL to the ground and subsequently he would become king? Or was that just another oversight in the writing?

______

This is a reasonably calm Mr.P, with a general nonchalance about the whole thing. Cliched not mad but disappointed.

Imagine if I was still mad though? That's why I'm not mentioning Greyworm....

I really like last week, aside from certain plot holes. Really liked it. The first 30/40 minutes here were good. We just needed so much more of that.

Why was there such a rush, in what seems like an arbitrary deadline they set for themselves. We waited 2 years for these 6 episodes, we could have waited another 6 months for a few well written (which they're clearly capable of producing) episodes that joined the dots.

At least Jon got to pet the dog

Mr.Prodston · 20-05-2019 2:41pm

Oh and I also liked the mention of Maester Aemon. That was nice.

The White Wolf · 20-05-2019 2:48pm

Sansa played the game right up until the end and I was surprised no one else chanced their arm once Bran agreed to allow the North be an independent Kingdom.....I mean not even Yara?

Sansa is a weird one for me. A lot of people seemed to love her this season but underneath all her talk about wanting to maintain the North's independence for her people, I think there's just a calculating shark who wanted her own power. She contributed to a significant loss of life by setting a game in motion that would serve her own interests.

"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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