Six TD's and senators forced to refund illegitimate expense claims

banie01 · 22-10-2019 9:38am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Just a bit of realpolitik (that means politics based on practical rather than moral or ideological considerations. ) means that as a Fine Gael member I'm glad she won't be on the ticket for the next GE.

It's simple stuff Johnny.

Paddy, there is a shockingly condescending tone to many of your posts but this one really combines that and the sense of a drowning man standing on his crew mates shoulders to survive in a sad pastiche of finally seeing the light

The time for RealPolitik was when Bailey's honesty, candour and integrity were exposed for the shams they are.
Instead FG pulled every delaying tactic possible to push it out and hope it would drop out of the news cycle.

The lack of strong or even effective leadership has been laid bare.
That the decision to drop Bailey was left to Machiavellian local level back stabbing?
Rather than ruled on definitively one way or the other after the report, i.e back her or sack her!

Really only leads to speculation that she held feet of senior colleagues to the fire and they took no action for fear of fallout.

That her oustier was left to backroom "local" machinations only compounds that impression.

In a week that FF have been found to be fiddling votes, Bailey is still the political headline.

Snow Garden · 22-10-2019 11:07am

banie01 wrote: »

In a week that FF have been found to be fiddling votes, Bailey is still the political headline.

They are all at that voting nonsense.

Deputies including Fine Gael’s Hildegarde Naughten, Peter Burke and Fergus O’Dowd, Fianna Fáil’s Anne Rabbitte and James Lawless, as well as Sinn Féin’s Louise O’Reilly, said they may have pressed a colleague’s voting button but only when they were actually in the chamber.

But yeah Bailey continues to make headlines. I am not sure why Farrell (FG) gets away so lightly - his completely bona fides insurance claim was arguably worse because he won his case and took the money.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2019 11:28am

banie01 wrote: »

In a week that FF have been found to be fiddling votes, Bailey is still the political headline.

Not a fan of FF but Thomas Byrne made the salient point on Claire Byrne last night that Michael Martin dealt with the voting fraud allegations in under 24 hours whereas Leo Varakar is now 20 weeks into the alleged insurance fraud and he still hasnt dealt with it. Varadkar is making Martin actually look like a decisive leader.

salmocab · 22-10-2019 12:13pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Not a fan of FF but Thomas Byrne made the salient point on Claire Byrne last night that Michael Martin dealt with the voting fraud allegations in under 24 hours whereas Leo Varakar is now 20 weeks into the alleged insurance fraud and he still hasnt dealt with it. Varadkar is making Martin actually look like a decisive leader.

Funnily it’s all optics, Martin actually did sod all as the two were bang to rights but he did his sod all quickly. Although he then did nothing when more of the same came out. Similarly LV really did sod all but dragged his heels thinking it was going to go away so ruined the optics of what little he did.

Odyssey 2005 · 22-10-2019 1:09pm

FG and Sinn Fein/IRA demanding answers from FF

. They both have some neck,but we already know that !

James Brown · 22-10-2019 1:59pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Just a bit of realpolitik, politics based on practical rather than moral or ideological considerations

pretty simple...

Yeah but law and order and that was the Fine Gael shtick. Now all they are is a poor man's Fianna Fail.

Jay Dee · 25-10-2019 1:32pm

One Down......

.

James Brown · 25-10-2019 1:55pm

Jay Dee wrote: »

One Down......

.

Some one resign?

McMurphy · 25-10-2019 2:15pm

Jay Dee wrote: »

One Down......

.

She'll be back up running again in a couple of weeks, don't worry about it.

James Brown · 25-10-2019 2:18pm

Am I homer and this is the No Homers club?
Who, what, when?

McMurphy · 25-10-2019 2:22pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'm I homer and this is the No Homers club?
Who, what, when?

Sorry, I thought when I read "one down" someone had fallen off a swing again or something.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 26-10-2019 6:14pm

Well it appears despite the prophetic and vociferous warnings from the resident political pundits in here FG is still polling strong.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/1026/1085837-red-c-poll/

8 points clear of FF and the shinners languishing at 11 points.

No doubt, as I've said many many times on this thread, it's because Paul and Petunia Taxpayer care more about real issues like brexit and the economy than the tabloid outrage headlines.

I'm calling it now. The next government will be FG lead with support from the greens and independents or Labour.

Another term for the shinners in the cheap seats of the Dail.

NIMAN · 26-10-2019 6:18pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Well it appears despite the prophetic and vociferous warnings from the resident political pundits in here FG is still polling strong.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/1026/1085837-red-c-poll/

8 points clear of FF and the shinners languishing at 11 points.

No doubt, as I've said many many times on this thread, it's because Paul and Petunia Taxpayer care more about real issues like brexit and the economy than the tabloid outrage headlines.

I'm calling it now. The next government will be FG lead with support from the greens and independents or Labour.

Another term for the shinners in the cheap seats of the Dail.

Jez, SF at 11% now. Shocking. Mary Lou doing a sterling job.

Even the Greens are on 7.....if the climate change stuff is pushed hard, they could surpass SF in the next election!

Plumbthedepths · 26-10-2019 6:20pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I'm calling it now. The next government will be FG lead with support from the greens and independents or Labour.
.

Hmmm I remember you calling it on the Maria Bailey story how it'd be forgotten by the Summer. You were wrong then too.

tayto lover · 26-10-2019 6:25pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Jez, SF at 11% now. Shocking. Mary Lou doing a sterling job.

Even the Greens are on 7.....if the climate change stuff is pushed hard, they could surpass SF in the next election!

And cost the poor taxpayers a fortune on carbon taxes and other stuff they dream up.

Plumbthedepths · 26-10-2019 6:30pm

tayto lover wrote: »

And cost the poor taxpayers a fortune on carbon taxes and other stuff they dream up.

Ryan wants villagers to car pool and to reintroduce Wolves as far away from power as possible is the best place for the Greens.

WishUWereHere · 26-10-2019 7:05pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Ryan wants villagers to car pool and to reintroduce Wolves as far away from power as possible is the best place for the Greens.

Ryan Ought to be kept as far away from Kildare Street as possible.

McMurphy · 26-10-2019 7:18pm

Enda Kenny not coming out much better than the Healy Rays for Dail attendance and voting tbh.

Since stepping down as taoiseach, Enda Kenny has failed to participate in 96% of all D votes that took place between June 2017 and July 2019, RTInvestigates can reveal.

More than 400 votes were held between June 2017 and July 2019, with the Mayo TD voting in just 15 of those.

You might wonder why I'm putting that big of info in this thread father than the phantom voter thread.

Here's why.

Mr Kenny claimed more than €47,000 in expenses under the Travel and Accommodation Allowance (TAA) for his attendance at Leinster House.

That is despite failing to attend debates, committee meetings or take part in votes on 60% of the days when votes took place and Mr Kenny was recorded as being in the house at the time.

Definitely a nice perk of the job.

Between June 2017 and the end of 2018, he claimed more than €47,000 under this scheme. Expense figures for this year have not yet been finalised.

The Dail attendance records show Mr Kenny met the quota to claim his full entitlements under the Travel and Accommodation Allowance scheme.

He also receives his basic TD's salary of €96,189.

RTE

tayto lover · 26-10-2019 7:28pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Enda Kenny not coming out much better than the Healy Rays for Dail attendance and voting tbh.

You might wonder why I'm putting that big of info in this thread father than the phantom voter thread.

Here's why.

Definitely a nice perk of the job.

RTE

Grraavvvvyyyyy trrraaaiiinnnn choo choo.

c.p.w.g.w · 26-10-2019 7:30pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Enda Kenny not coming out much better than the Healy Rays for Dail attendance and voting tbh.

You might wonder why I'm putting that big of info in this thread father than the phantom voter thread.

Here's why.

Definitely a nice perk of the job.

RTE

Would love to see a full breakdown for each sitting member, if that's even readily available

Pintman Paddy Losty · 26-10-2019 7:37pm

Former toaisigh are not required by their parties to vote except on budget day and on no confidence motions.

Tin Foil Hat · 26-10-2019 7:43pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Former toaisigh are not required by their parties to vote except on budget day and on no confidence motions.

Then they should resign their seats and force a byelection. The voters of this country deserve proper representation, not this 3/4 retirement nonsense.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 26-10-2019 7:53pm

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Then they should resign their seats and force a byelection. The voters of this country deserve proper representation, not this 3/4 retirement nonsense.

Having a former taoiseach as your TD is a lot better représentation than some young party drone with no influence.

tayto lover · 26-10-2019 8:47pm

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Then they should resign their seats and force a byelection. The voters of this country deserve proper representation, not this 3/4 retirement nonsense.

They might not vote but they certainly claim expenses.

malinheader · 27-10-2019 7:39am

The expenses Enda Kenny received (48,000) were on top of his 96,000 a year TDs salary.
How can this type of money be justified.

WishUWereHere · 27-10-2019 8:32am

malinheader wrote: »

The expenses Enda Kenny received (48,000) were on top of his 96,000 a year TDs salary.
How can this type of money be justified.

Well p@ddy, how can this monetary expenditure be justified?

malinheader · 27-10-2019 8:43am

Anyone on a salary of 96,000 a year should not get expenses, end of.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 27-10-2019 9:04am

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Well p@ddy, how can this monetary expenditure be justified?

Enda Kenny lives in Mayo. His employment means he travels to Dublin for work. As a result he receives a stipend to pay for additional accommodation and travel costs.

The further you live the dail the further you have to travel. It's to create a level playing field and not make it more expensive for TDs from Donegal Kerry and Mayo to represent their constituents than someone in kildare Dublin or meath.

The rates are in line with public sector rates.

Does that make sense for you or do you want me to try and make it simpler?

Also the amount is not per annum - they've taken the total amount over his entire term as TD.

malinheader · 27-10-2019 9:10am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Enda Kenny lives in Mayo. His employment means he travels to Dublin for work. As a result he receives a stipend to pay for additional accommodation and travel costs.

The further you live the dail the further you have to travel. It's to create a level playing field and not make it more expensive for TDs from Donegal Kerry and Mayo to represent their constituents than someone in kildare Dublin or meath.

The rates are in line with public sector rates.

Does that make sense for you or do you want me to try and make it simpler?

Also the amount is not per annum - they've taken the total amount over his entire term as TD.

So in your eyes anyone travelling to work in Dublin should get more than someone living in Dublin to create a level playing field.No one's asking you to make it simpler were just disgusted at the money these people are receiving. Do you not understand this or will we try and make it simpler for you.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 27-10-2019 9:22am

malinheader wrote: »

So in your eyes anyone travelling to work in Dublin should get more than someone living in Dublin to create a level playing field.No one's asking you to make it simpler were just disgusted at the money these people are receiving. Do you not understand this or will we try and make it simpler for you.

No I understand. You're jealous and can't countenance the fact that someone else can earn multiples of your wage.

TDs hold very important and responsible roles. In the private sector they could probably earn multiples of what the earn as a TD.

If the wages were set as the average industrial wage then you would only attract idiots and the already very wealthy.

Wages for politicians was seen as a massive reform as it meant anyone could become a politician. Previously politicians were not paid and therefore only the rich aristocrats could ever afford to be one.

And yes I think it's fair that the further you travel, the higher your travel allowance should be. Otherwise as a nation we've decided to say representation for people who live further away from Dublin is worth less.

malinheader · 27-10-2019 10:17am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

No I understand. You're jealous and can't countenance the fact that someone else can earn multiples of your wage.

TDs hold very important and responsible roles. In the private sector they could probably earn multiples of what the earn as a TD.

If the wages were set as the average industrial wage then you would only attract idiots and the already very wealthy.

Wages for politicians was seen as a massive reform as it meant anyone could become a politician. Previously politicians were not paid and therefore only the rich aristocrats could ever afford to be one.

And yes I think it's fair that the further you travel, the higher your travel allowance should be. Otherwise as a nation we've decided to say representation for people who live further away from Dublin is worth less.

Your wrong in thinking I'm jealous, but then I might be wrong in thinking your another one in the group milking the tax payers or earning a living off working people.

Agree it's a important role, that's why you should lead by example. Not much has changed since a certain politician told us to tighten our belts while living like a millionaire.

As to attracting idiots (who fall off swings etc.)I don't think the money has stopped this in some cases. And as for travel expenses certain td,s had houses in Dublin for when they were there but Also chose to keep claiming their travel expenses . But hey if you think they are worth it, it's your opinion.

dundalkfc10 · 27-10-2019 10:23am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

No I understand. You're jealous and can't countenance the fact that someone else can earn multiples of your wage.

TDs hold very important and responsible roles. In the private sector they could probably earn multiples of what the earn as a TD.

If the wages were set as the average industrial wage then you would only attract idiots and the already very wealthy.

Wages for politicians was seen as a massive reform as it meant anyone could become a politician. Previously politicians were not paid and therefore only the rich aristocrats could ever afford to be one.

And yes I think it's fair that the further you travel, the higher your travel allowance should be. Otherwise as a nation we've decided to say representation for people who live further away from Dublin is worth less.

If tbey were in Private sector, most would be sacked. Not turning up, claiming false expenses, rigging votes etc

Lewis_Benson · 27-10-2019 10:25am

Need to get CAB involved, get heavy handed.

NewMan1982 · 27-10-2019 10:31am

A good idea would be create a list of all the TDs involved in corruption during this term and post it everywhere on social media at election time.

Hopefully it would impact who people vote for.

The problem is, there seems to be no viable alternatives.

Snow Garden · 27-10-2019 10:39am

malinheader wrote: »

The expenses Enda Kenny received (48,000) were on top of his 96,000 a year TDs salary.
How can this type of money be justified.

Hold on, did Enda claim 48k in expenses when not going to the Dail at all?

is_that_so · 27-10-2019 10:44am

Snow Garden wrote: »

Hold on, did Enda claim 48k in expenses when not going to the Dail at all?

No, there's no suggestion he hasn't been there but he hasn't voted very much at all. Most of them are off elsewhere a lot of the time anyway, typically in their offices. He's logged in enough times to claim expenses he would be entitled to.

is_that_so · 27-10-2019 10:46am

malinheader wrote: »

The expenses Enda Kenny received (48,000) were on top of his 96,000 a year TDs salary.
How can this type of money be justified.

It's the cost of politics. Every democratic system pays expenses to MPs for running their offices, travel etc. Germany, IIRC, pays about €150k a year to cover everything.

Here's a link to the allowances.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/salaries-and-allowances/

malinheader · 27-10-2019 11:03am

is_that_so wrote: »

It's the cost of politics. Every democratic system pays expenses to MPs for running their offices, travel etc. Germany, IIRC, pays about €150k a year to cover everything.

Here's a link to the allowances.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/salaries-and-allowances/

Shocking really shocking. TDs travelling 15 miles or less €9000 expenses per year. 25 to 36 miles €25,000 per year.
From where alot of people travel to work from rural parts of Ireland they would be worth a fortune. But hey who gives a siht about ordinary people.

Snow Garden · 27-10-2019 11:04am

is_that_so wrote: »

No, there's no suggestion he hasn't been there but he hasn't voted very much at all. Most of them are off elsewhere a lot of the time anyway, typically in their offices. He's logged in enough times to claim expenses he would be entitled to.

Did he claim 48k in a 12 month period? Simple Question.

27-10-2019 11:06am

Local TDs round here seem to show up both in the dail in Dublin and in every local meeting or event.

I'd reckon their milage is enormous.

malinheader · 27-10-2019 11:10am

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Local TDs round here seem to show up both in the dail in Dublin and in every local meeting or event.

I'd reckon their milage is enormous.

Who cares when it's well looked after. Nice trip to the states on paddy's day too.poor things

is_that_so · 27-10-2019 11:14am

Snow Garden wrote: »

Did he claim 48k in a 12 month period? Simple Question.

Judging by this it seems to be over two years.
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/1026/1085832-enda-kenny-dail/

McMurphy · 27-10-2019 11:35am

is_that_so wrote: »

Judging by this it seems to be over two years.
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/1026/1085832-enda-kenny-dail/

18 X months.

Between June 2017 and the end of 2018, he claimed more than €47,000 under this scheme. Expense figures for this year have not yet been finalised.

48k / 18 = 2.66k per month.

Also taking in to account the Dail will be on lengthy breaks during the course of the year for Easter, summer and Christmas, not to mention Paddy's Day etc, so you could prob Knock a few months off that, that Kenny wasn't required to be travelling (by learjet by the looks of things) to Dublin.

Let's allow him 2 months off the 18 to be generous.

48k/16= a nice round and handy 3k even per month.

No-one will convert me to not believing that's a scandalous sum of money for travelling allowance.

is_that_so · 27-10-2019 11:38am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

18 X months.

48k / 18 = 2.66k per month.

Also taking in to account the Dail will be on lengthy breaks during the course of the year for Easter, summer and Christmas, not to mention Paddy's Day etc, so you could prob Knock a few months off that, that Kenny wasn't required to be travelling (by learjet by the looks of things) to Dublin.

No-one will convert me to not believing that's a scandalous sum of money for travelling allowance.

The TAA is both travel and accommodation.

Pedro K · 27-10-2019 11:40am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

TDs hold very important and responsible roles. In the private sector they could probably earn multiples of what the earn as a TD.

Also Paddy; some TDs are just party drones with no influence.

Paddy wrote:

Having a former taoiseach as your TD is a lot better représentation than some young party drone with no influence

The irony of you referring to anyone else as a party drone, by the way. Have you ever publicly criticised anything anyone in FG has done?

malinheader · 27-10-2019 11:42am

is_that_so wrote: »

The TAA is both travel and accommodation.

Still a ridiculous amount.

McMurphy · 27-10-2019 11:44am

is_that_so wrote: »

The TAA is both travel and accommodation.

Yeah I am aware of that, and am still saying that it is an exorbitant amount of money, 3k a month, Enda obviously is a man who enjoys the finer things in life, and that's ok too, so long as others aren't picking up the tab for it.

WishUWereHere · 27-10-2019 11:48am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Enda Kenny lives in Mayo. His employment means he travels to Dublin for work. As a result he receives a stipend to pay for additional accommodation and travel costs.

Kenny had (maybe even still has) an apartment in D2, so should he still get travelling expenses?

malinheader · 27-10-2019 11:55am

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Kenny had (maybe even still has) an apartment in D2, so should he still get travelling expenses?

Maybe a small bit of travel but definitely not accommodation. I would say most of them have some kind of accommodation in Dublin. Don't think to many would stay in a premier inn or travel lodge.

WishUWereHere · 27-10-2019 12:01pm

malinheader wrote: »

Who cares when it's well looked after. Nice trip to the states on paddy's day too.poor things

Not forgetting a subsidized bar, paid for by the idiots paying tax.

Six TD's and senators forced to refund illegitimate expense claims

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