Forgiving/Unforgiving

ShatterAlan · 28-09-2020 12:58am

Deleted User wrote: »

Wibbs, what's your honest opinion on this scenario...a group of say 30 men aged 30 to 65 ish go on a weekend away abroad for a stag/ event ,a cross section from all walks of life, a similar group of women do the same thing, do you think a similar % of cheating would go on in both groups, be honest?&#55357;&#56859;

You'd be surprised how many women play away especially on hen nights abroad. I was in a bar in Amsterdam and a hen party landed into the place. They were well oiled. The bride to be had sex with the barman in the toilets. On another occasion I got chatting to two girls from Essex. Just friendly banter. I asked them "So do you have boyfriends back home?" and one replied "yeah, but we'd make an exception for you."

ShatterAlan · 28-09-2020 1:59am

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Where to begin?
You split hairs with me as to what's worse in life. That's the first sign of an arsehole to be honest.

You come to the conclusion after a few sentences from me that I am "bitter" - so either one of two things are happening right now you have some amazing ability in life to read people through and through from a few lines posted on an internet website or you're up your own arse and think you are clever. Calling someone names to make your opinion more valid. If it's the former please join the police force as they could use some awesome detectives ... But it's not really the former is it

Then you go on to say how calling someone a whore or junkie is wrong but calling someone a bastard or scumbag is perfectly acceptable.

Wow. Just wow :pac:

Then you cap it all off with calling me vindictive but not before you blow yourself out saying how bigger of a person you are.

I am in awe of your post mate. But I must ask how do you fit your head up your own arse? Do you have to remove some ribs? :pac:

I never once called you any names and certainly not to make my opinion more "valid".

You, on the contrary, allude to me being an arsehole and that I have my head up my arse.

Is that to make your opinion more valid?

Gremlinertia · 28-09-2020 2:16am

Mod Note - quit it with the personal digs

ShatterAlan · 28-09-2020 2:42am

Princess Calla wrote: »

So you are blaming the neighbour for the sh*tshow that happened after the husbands infidelity?

If my friends knew my partner was having an affair but didn't tell me I wouldn't view them as friends. Yes it would be an extremely hard conversation to have but by staying quiet I'd view them as condoning his behaviour.

The fact that kids are involved shows that the couple are having unprotected sex so by staying quiet the innocent partner is being exposed to a health risk not of their making.

What are you on about?

The children are from the marriage. Where does unprotected sex with the mistress and a health risk come into your head?

And I'm not blaming the neighbour for the sh*tshow. I said the neighbour didn't help things at all by exposing the affair. The OP said that the husband was a decent guy in general. The wife booted him out and now she's living in poverty and so are the kids. He's tried for years to work things out but she's not having any of it. She's now an emotional basket case catting around on Tinder and generally miserable. It sounds to me like she might have been a bit unstable even prior to the knowledge of the infidelity yet the husband was somehow taking care of his wife and his children.

How do you know if it was an ongoing sordid affair or maybe just a once off or a fling with an old flame from years gone by because he was lonely or missing something?

Most affairs burn themselves out. They die a natural death. Very few go on ad infinitum and very few result in the cheaters ending up together and living happily ever after.

The husband could very easily have had a tryst and then gotten over it and carried his guilt with him but safe in the knowledge that his family were ok. The neighbour could have very easily kept her mouth shut or approached the husband and said "I know what your up to mister. End it!". Better still she could have been really mature and diplomatic and asked for a meeting with him in confidence to discuss what was happening and why. But you see that's difficult. It takes empathy. It takes courage. It takes understanding and facing up to uncomfortable truths. She didn't want the burden of having a secret so she took the easy way out and offloaded it.

Answer me this. If your choices were:

A. Your friend's life will be destroyed if you expose the affair.

B. Your friend will live happily ever after oblivious to the affair if you keep your mouth shut even if it means you have to carry that secret with you.

Which would you choose? A true friend would take option B. It takes iron will to shoulder that burden so as to protect a friend.

Sometimes doing what's perceived as "the right thing" backfires and doesn't yield the best results. But of course people will simply dust off their hands and say "Well he shouldn't have cheated. Not my fault now that all their lives are ruined."

ShatterAlan · 28-09-2020 2:50am

Princess Calla wrote: »

So you are blaming the neighbour for the sh*tshow that happened after the husbands infidelity?

If my friends knew my partner was having an affair but didn't tell me I wouldn't view them as friends. Yes it would be an extremely hard conversation to have but by staying quiet I'd view them as condoning his behaviour.

The fact that kids are involved shows that the couple are having unprotected sex so by staying quiet the innocent partner is being exposed to a health risk not of their making.

And what if they said that they loved you so much that they were willing to do anything to protect you from pain even if that meant going to bed every night with a secret gnawing at their soul? And why would you think that that would be condoning the affair?

ShatterAlan · 28-09-2020 2:57am

Princess Calla wrote: »

Oh god yeah a complete nightmare.

However I'd rather tell my friend, even at the expense of our relationship, and keep my integrity.

I couldn't sit chatting about future holidays, more children etc etc knowing that he's balls deep in someone else behind her back.

Well here's another one for you.

Let's just say you got drunk and snogged your friend's OH. Would you then go running to her and say "Listen, I've got something to confess. I shifted your fella last week. I'm just telling you to maintain my integrity."?

ShatterAlan · 28-09-2020 3:10am

Princess Calla wrote: »

So you think raising a hand and hitting a spouse is alot worse than jumping into bed with another?

Both are abuse, emotional scars can leave a much bigger scar that physical ones. That's not even taking into consideration the risk of contracting stds /stis and passing them on to the innocent partner.

Or maybe fathering a child, secretly supporting the child .... Or if its the wife getting pregnant and having the husband raise the child as their own.

The messenger isn't the person that destroyed the relationship.

Of course hitting one's wife is a lot worse. And do you think that a wife being punched only leaves a black eye that will be gone in a couple of weeks. The emotional scars from spousal abuse far outweigh those of infidelity. Whilst being cheated on she will feel betrayed. Being beaten she will feel nothing but terror all her waking hours.

IAMAMORON · 28-09-2020 9:57am

Agreed on women being as bad as men when it comes to infidelity, in particular on short term weekend trips like Hens, Stags etc. Females in longer term relationships are the most promiscuous in my experience. They are looking for no strings attached sex more often than not. On my experience on Stags it is actually the married lads who are the first to hit the brothels and stay up all night. It is like they are Gorillas left out of their cage for 48 hours, shocking stuff really.

What I think happens is that after the Honeymoon period is through ( say 6-12 mths ) of a relationship and once the " love consolidation" is through ( 1yr-4ys) you are into the " 7 year itch" territory. I think this is where most of the shenanigans kicks in.

Both partners get bored of the Status Quo and start looking around for a bit of strange, it happens. This is obviously worse if there are kids involved.

I do also think that once the sex itch has been scratched that these infidels

are more likely to go lovingly back to their partners. They still love them.

Wibbs · 28-09-2020 9:57am

SnowyMay wrote: »

Play stupid games; win stupid prizes. Calling a woman a whore is a despicable thing to do. You come from this with an attitude born of your own experience, and I come with an attitude born of mine. So we do differ. I, on the one hand, wouldn't say something like this about a group of people. And to infer that this is insulting because it had some truth in it is pretty low Wibbs.

Nope, my point is and stands that insults sting when someone thinks they have some truth to them. It doesn't necessarily mean they do, merely that the person thinks they do. You're illustrating it quite well actually.

I hope you won't. Why would you? That would be the action of somebody who has issues.

"Issues". Yep, the lazy catchall for when argument fails. It was by way of illustration of the difference between a name calling and actually cheating on someone. I beggars belief, well mine anyway, that being called a name would wind someone up more than being actually betrayed emotionally and physically. Clearly some didn't pick up on the sense behind the school yard sticks and stones trope.

Let's face it - I have already said that I don't cheat, and I haven't been cheated on - to my knowledge - and I think it's a wrong thing to do, but, I would bet you your farm that more people have been cheated on than have had such hateful insults thrown at them.

Christ you're easily offended and oddly with it. Again a partner calling me say as aonce off in a moment of madness and high emotion [insert Worst Insult. Ever!] compared to going off and shagging someone else is chalk and cheese and would be to most people. Given you've not been cheated upon nor cheated yourself, you're hardly in a position to quantify the difference in hurt and impact. Though how you can fail to imagine the obvious differences in impact again beggars belief.

Sex is a particularly nice part of life, and, if, for reasons like five years without it, or in physical or emotional abuse, or feeling unloved, some people will have that "moment of madness"(TM), or some need to feel loved. It can happen because people are needing something else - whereas calling somebody a really nasty name is just designed to hurt.

Well there's a lot to untangle there. Reasons to cheat. Cool. But again a myriad of decisions are in play to get to that point. Decisions that are consciously made at each step in the knowledge that they're about to break a major trust. But apparently a "nasty name" blurted in anger is worse. Okaaay.

There is no confusion here. The reason guys can't get laid every day of the week is because women don't offer it up so easily.

Your original point was that women were in control of "access". This is not a case of women holding all of the cards; they just don't choose to sleep with anything that moves. This is the reason why women prostitutes are more popular than male - the demand is there.

Eh... that's what my point was. Join the dots. Why don't women generally not "sleep with anything that moves"?

I am relatively done with this argument. I see that you have gone on to describe women as often being ditzy, Eat Pray Love Types where they go on holidays and cheat, and you believe they block whatever incident from their minds.

I'm sorry that you had whatever experiences that you had to make you think this way about women. We are not so bad when you get to know us. Maybe you were just unlucky.

More projection. You read some women are morons, therefore all women are morons. Some leap there Ted. I'm beginning to see how words may fire you up. 1) I denoted a particular type of woman. I did not say all women, but keep going with the oul projection. 2) in the very post that wound you up over a nasty word and as a counter to previous posters who were of a mindset that a lot of people cheat(though more men, which is nonsense), I stated that there are plenty of women(and men) who aren't whores. Most indeed. And yes there are plenty of ditzy types, men and women. The average IQ is 100, this means that about half of people run below that number. That's before we get to emotional intelligence.

As for my experiences with women? The majority have been positive, some very positive, with the occasional sprinkling of the ditzy, neurotic and untrustworthy. So basically my experience with people in general. Unless you think women by virtue of their sex are somehow of a hive mind of general purity and fantasticness(should be a word) and not err to the human condition.

Wibbs · 28-09-2020 10:02am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Well here's another one for you.

Let's just say you got drunk and snogged your friend's OH. Would you then go running to her and say "Listen, I've got something to confess. I shifted your fella last week. I'm just telling you to maintain my integrity."?

I do take your point S, though in the above scenario if I ended up snogging a mate's better three quarters I'd be pretty sure I would tell them and accept the consequences of that. I'd find it bloody hard to live with myself for doing it in the first place and not letting them know. Maybe if it actually happened I might not? I dunno, maybe. Though maybe you're right, that I'd be selfishly telling them to assuage my guilt more than as a kindness to them and their relationship.

JoChervil · 28-09-2020 7:21pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I do also think that once the sex itch has been scratched that these infidels are more likely to go lovingly back to their partners. They still love them.

Actually usually quite opposite thing happens. People start seeing their parter differently. Partners become ugly and more annoying for them. In this way they feel less guilty, when they make their partner "deserving" cheating. So not only they betray them but also they diminish them in their own eyes. And cheaters do it to themselves. They devalue partners and their own relationships.

JoChervil · 28-09-2020 8:04pm

It started:

Wibbs wrote: »

Plenty more fish in the sea who aren't untrustworthy whores.

SnowyMay wrote: »

Jesus Wibbs. Do you have some anger issues?

Wibbs wrote: »

But apparently a "nasty name" blurted in anger is worse.

That's what SM meant by asking you about anger issues. People usually don't say nasty words in a regular post unless it is anger involved, what you actually admitted.

IAMAMORON · 28-09-2020 8:07pm

JoChervil wrote: »

Actually usually quite opposite thing happens. People start seeing their partner differently. Partners become ugly and more annoying for them. In this way they feel less guilty, when they make their partner "deserving" cheating. So not only they betray them but also they diminish them in their own eyes. And cheaters do it to themselves. They devalue partners and their own relationships.

I would hate to be accused of generalisation, I was merely giving an example of how casual infidelity can and does occur. The debate about how detrimental it is to a relationships' survival continues.

It could be that the early signals of a break up are when one partner is getting ridden senseless by a good looking stranger in a toilet cubicle of a night club in Carrick on Shannon. That is all I was trying to say really.

nthclare · 28-09-2020 8:15pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Nope, my point is and stands that insults sting when someone thinks they have some truth to them. It doesn't necessarily mean they do, merely that the person thinks they do. You're illustrating it quite well actually.

"Issues". Yep, the lazy catchall for when argument fails. It was by way of illustration of the difference between a name calling and actually cheating on someone. I beggars belief, well mine anyway, that being called a name would wind someone up more than being actually betrayed emotionally and physically. Clearly some didn't pick up on the sense behind the school yard sticks and stones trope.

Christ you're easily offended and oddly with it. Again a partner calling me say as aonce off in a moment of madness and high emotion [insert Worst Insult. Ever!] compared to going off and shagging someone else is chalk and cheese and would be to most people. Given you've not been cheated upon nor cheated yourself, you're hardly in a position to quantify the difference in hurt and impact. Though how you can fail to imagine the obvious differences in impact again beggars belief.

Well there's a lot to untangle there. Reasons to cheat. Cool. But again a myriad of decisions are in play to get to that point. Decisions that are consciously made at each step in the knowledge that they're about to break a major trust. But apparently a "nasty name" blurted in anger is worse. Okaaay.

Eh... that's what my point was. Join the dots. Why don't women generally not "sleep with anything that moves"?

More projection. You read some women are morons, therefore all women are morons. Some leap there Ted. I'm beginning to see how words may fire you up. 1) I denoted a particular type of woman. I did not say all women, but keep going with the oul projection. 2) in the very post that wound you up over a nasty word and as a counter to previous posters who were of a mindset that a lot of people cheat(though more men, which is nonsense), I stated that there are plenty of women(and men) who aren't whores. Most indeed. And yes there are plenty of ditzy types, men and women. The average IQ is 100, this means that about half of people run below that number. That's before we get to emotional intelligence.

As for my experiences with women? The majority have been positive, some very positive, with the occasional sprinkling of the ditzy, neurotic and untrustworthy. So basically my experience with people in general. Unless you think women by virtue of their sex are somehow of a hive mind of general purity and fantasticness(should be a word) and not err to the human condition.

Living near Lisdoonverna, its a known place for married women to snag a man on a September's Saturday night and have a night of no strings debochery and there's absolutely no guilt involved at the time.
I've also seen married guys get it out of the system.

But I'm sure when they're home and himself or herself drops a cuppa tea on the coaster, the head starts playing the tapes of regret, guilt and I'll never do that again...

Some people are only fooling themselves, it's not uncommon I'd say...

28-09-2020 8:22pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

You'd be surprised how many women play away especially on hen nights abroad. I was in a bar in Amsterdam and a hen party landed into the place. They were well oiled. The bride to be had sex with the barman in the toilets. On another occasion I got chatting to two girls from Essex. Just friendly banter. I asked them "So do you have boyfriends back home?" and one replied "yeah, but we'd make an exception for you."

I wouldn't be one bit surprised and of course it happens but I personally believe that if you sent a group of women away for a weekend less would cheat than a group of similar aged men, again that's just my opinion, why do you think places are awash with prostitutes during big sporting events and in lots of holiday destinations ,is this to facilitate the women or just single men ?

ShatterAlan · 29-09-2020 4:35am

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't be one bit surprised and of course it happens but I personally believe that if you sent a group of women away for a weekend less would cheat than a group of similar aged men, again that's just my opinion, why do you think places are awash with prostitutes during big sporting events and in lots of holiday destinations ,is this to facilitate the women or just single men ?

There's a different dynamic at play. Prostitutes are generally good looking and sexy. They have to be in order to ply their trade. They dress scantilly and provocatively and many men can't resist them.
If you had a bar full of drunken women and you sent in a few hunks in tight shirts with bulging muscles and Matt Damon smiles there'd be no shortage of takers.

Girls who go for two weeks to Ibiza or Magaluf ride everything in sight even with the boyfriend back home in Romford.

29-09-2020 7:39am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

There's a different dynamic at play. Prostitutes are generally good looking and sexy. They have to be in order to ply their trade. They dress scantilly and provocatively and many men can't resist them.
If you had a bar full of drunken women and you sent in a few hunks in tight shirts with bulging muscles and Matt Damon smiles there'd be no shortage of takers.

Girls who go for two weeks to Ibiza or Magaluf ride everything in sight even with the boyfriend back home in Romford.

So women are responsible either way, poor men,lol.

Wibbs · 29-09-2020 8:37am

JoChervil wrote: »

That's what SM meant by asking you about anger issues. People usually don't say nasty words in a regular post unless it is anger involved, what you actually admitted.

You'll note I put that in parentheses to qualify it. To illustrate no anger involved, merely description. I just love how people trot out the cut price pop psychology they've learned from daytime TV and reckon that's an argument. Indeed to take from the same cut price pop psychology handbook that's projection in a big way. Hell, when I tried to illustrate the pretty huge chasm between someone shouting a "nasty word" in anger and someone deliberately breaking the trust of a relationship I said I could call SM a whore in a post, but I couldn't go off and have an affair with her, the same SM came back with "I hope you won't. Why would you? That would be the action of somebody who has issues". AKA "I don't like/understand what someone is saying, therefore they have anger issues". You couldn't make it up.

Deleted User wrote: »

So women are responsible either way, poor men,lol.

Eh... nope, though I would agree Shatter's post is a bit eh wut? It does sound a bit I dunno "old fashioned". Scantily clad sexy women and many men can't resist and inevitably fall between their legs with their wallet open. :pac:

I have to say though you seem stuck fast in the loop of cheating = men with prostitutes. That appears to be your start, middle and end. While you have acknowledged women may cheat you keep inexorably bringing the subject back to that for some reason.

You do realise that men can "get it for free" and there are women quite happy to help on that score. Of the men I've known who have cheated, not one of them paid for it, just like the women I've known who've cheated. Maybe I've travelled in unusual circles, but I doubt it and like I said of my peers none of them to my knowledge has used prostitutes and would consider it "a bit sad" for a man who had to. Actually now that I think on it one did. He was on an extended job in Australia and after a night on the beer with colleagues ended up in a brothel. Add in drink and "when in Rome" he went along with it, but described the whole experience in terms of mild disgust with himself.

I dunno, if lads reading some of this wanted to get the leg over with strange, it seems the trick is a) don't do it on a golfist weekend away, do it locally with someone who isn't a prostitute and b) don't use "nasty words", because that's Game Over, not rogering Ann from accounts on occasion. Throw in a little hand holding contrition and talk of "feelings" if you're caught and you're golden.

Immortal Starlight · 29-09-2020 10:50am

For me what it boils down to is if you cheat you are scum. People can try to forgive and forget but I doubt that works. Once that trust is broken that's it really.

Kylta · 29-09-2020 10:59am

If nobody cheated there would be nothing to forgive. But when you cheat I think its down to a total selfishness act, an at no point are you thinking of your partner (unless its about spite). What I can't understand if a person is going to cheat on their partner why be with the person, why not break up.

IAMAMORON · 29-09-2020 11:02am

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

For me what it boils down to is if you cheat you are scum. People can try to forgive and forget but I doubt that works. Once that trust is broken that's it really.

Very harsh.

For the record, I had a 6 month affair with a colleague whilst in a long term relationship about 12 years ago. It happened. The sex was awesome, I had a great time and I let myself and my now ex-girlfriend down.

I am not "scum" however.

Wibbs · 29-09-2020 11:04am

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

For me what it boils down to is if you cheat you are scum. People can try to forgive and forget but I doubt that works. Once that trust is broken that's it really.

Now in no way am I making excuses for it, but it can depend on the circumstances around it. In any relationship it takes two to tango and if one partner has dialled out of the relationship eg emotionally and/or sexually and is making no effort to make changes in that relationship to bring it back on course and the other partner cheats emotionally or sexually, then yes the cheater is still a cheater and a coward for not trying to improve things on their side or state their case and leave, but the cheatee has a part to play too. I realise in the current all to lazy victimhood culture that can be verboten to suggest, but it can exist in a relationship.

Now that's a different circumstance to a bloke hiring hookers on a weekend away, or a blokess grunting on a barman's how's your father on a girl's night out, both from otherwise good relationships.

Immortal Starlight · 29-09-2020 11:06am

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Very harsh.

For the record, I had a 6 month affair with a colleague whilst in a long term relationship about 12 years ago. It happened. The sex was awesome, I had a great time and I let myself and my now ex-girlfriend down.

I am not "scum" however.

It's a black and white issue for me and I wouldn't have any time for someone who could do that to be honest.

Gruffalux · 29-09-2020 11:06am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So women are responsible either way, poor men,lol.

It is like a movie where all the prostitutes are very good looking and sexy and many men cannot resist. The working girls probably all have hearts of gold too and draw the poor men's heads in towards their capacious bosoms as they pour out their woes.

Wibbs · 29-09-2020 11:07am

Kylta wrote: »

If nobody cheated there would be nothing to forgive. But when you cheat I think its down to a total selfishness act, an at no point are you thinking of your partner (unless its about spite). What I can't understand if a person is going to cheat on their partner why be with the person, why not break up.

Fear. A fear of loss of suburban stability. A fear of loss of family if one exists. A fear of financial loss, mostly in the case of divorced men. Base emotional cowardess.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Very harsh.

For the record, I had a 6 month affair with a colleague whilst in a long term relationship about 12 years ago. It happened. The sex was awesome, I had a great time and I let myself and my now ex-girlfriend down.

I am not "scum" however.

The act is scummy and you were scummy as it were around that act of betrayal as you say let yourself down and her of course. It doesn't mean someone is overall "scum". Certainly not in the case of a one off kinda thing. Repeated behaviour on the same score with different people, then yeah, then it would be the behaviour of a twat alright.

Kylta · 29-09-2020 11:10am

Gruffalux wrote: »

It is like a movie where all the prostitutes are very good looking and sexy and many men cannot resist. The working girls probably all have hearts of gold too and draw the poor men's heads in towards their capacious bosoms as they pour out their woes.

The other issue there are the prostitutes being sex trafficked, if so then I sorry because anybody using sex trafficked sex workers are basically raping these women, whether your paying for it or not. (Sorry for the digression)

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 29-09-2020 11:18am

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am not "scum" however.

Says every scumbag

Immortal Starlight · 29-09-2020 12:02pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Now in no way am I making excuses for it, but it can depend on the circumstances around it. In any relationship it takes two to tango and if one partner has dialled out of the relationship eg emotionally and/or sexually and is making no effort to make changes in that relationship to bring it back on course and the other partner cheats emotionally or sexually, then yes the cheater is still a cheater and a coward for not trying to improve things on their side or state their case and leave, but the cheatee has a part to play too. I realise in the current all to lazy victimhood culture that can be verboten to suggest, but it can exist in a relationship.

Now that's a different circumstance to a bloke hiring hookers on a weekend away, or a blokess grunting on a barman's how's your father on a girl's night out, both from otherwise good relationships.

I think if a previously healthy intimate relationship has degraded to the point that one person has checked out emotionally or sexually there has to be a reason. If one person is so unhappy or unsatisfied that they feel a real need to go elsewhere to have their needs met then they need to have a conversation with their partner. I personally would rather talk until my throat bleeds and try to sort out what’s going on than jump into bed with someone else behind my partners back if I was lucky enough to have one.
I know life is messy and of course you can be attracted to someone else while you’re in an existing relationship. We are all only human but I think a line should be drawn under one relationship before you act on that attraction if you feel that strongly that you need to.

chrissb8 · 29-09-2020 3:22pm

Cheating is circumstancial. In as so far that a relationship can be an abusive one, and in which an abused partner who can't escape easily due to commitments such as kids finds solace else where.

There's also emotional neglect of one's partner and devaluing them to a point where they don't feel loved, not necessarily actively looking to "cheat". But they come across someone on a night out or in a circumstance that makes them feel good and fulfills the lack of love/desire that they're partner no longer gives them or worse, with holds from them.

Like most things, it isn't just black and white there are many gradients of grey in between. Sometimes it is just straight forward cheating though. In those cases I think like most posters here. When you give yourself to another you give the most emotionally sensitive parts of yourself and you have no charge over how those are dealt with, that's your partners responsibility.

They can make you feel invincible or completely worthless. Cheating in a straight forward case, wherein the relationship is healthy or at least healthy enough, completely bulldozers over those feelings and kicks them around in the dirt. It is an utter complete betrayl and warrants no forgiveness, the cheater put their selfish needs ahead and consciously knew what they were doing. They decided to break a persons self worth and potentially cause long term damage to the said person.

hayoc · 29-09-2020 3:30pm

My husband turned out to have both a long term mistress (who knew he was married) and was using a prostitute from Dublin who advertised herself online.

Id never forgive him for it. He is scum. It was going on years. He was lying straight to my face for years. I had absolutely no idea. And the above is only what I found out about - he never admitted to anything that I didnt already have proof for.

He has done a huge amount of damage to me. I have PTSD, anxiety, an inability to trust, I feel unsafe all the time, Im a shell of my former self.

Forgiving/Unforgiving

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