Graham Linehan given police warning for "transphobia"

ceadaoin. · 08-10-2018 5:58pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

As far as I know, she wasn't attacking "Linehan" on the grounds that he's Irish, so your point is nonsensical. He, on the other hand, was attacking her on the grounds that she is a transgender activist, and used her previous identity against her, sharing it with his 600,000 followers, potentially causing some of them to pile on. Nasty stuff. Anyway, the "police" gave him a verbal warning, which has no legal standing whatsoever and is the next step up from doing nothing at all. As long as he is mature enough t

Except that's not what happened. She had a problem with linehan so she went after his wife by publishing her business details online. That is why he went on the attack, it's not because she is transgender but because his wife, who has nothing to do with this, was targeted. They are both in the wrong. She can't really complain about being "doxxed" when she did it first. Using the police to get the upper hand is ridiculous.

alaimacerc · 08-10-2018 6:06pm

Mutant z wrote: »

The irony of it all considering he himself is usually typically SJW [...]

Gee, it's almost as if "SJW" is a poorly defined broad brush epithet without any clear meaning, used with gleeful abandon by right-wing opponents of both second-wave feminist and trans-right people! (And of more besides.) Rather than a precise, technical political science description reflecting the nuances of people's views, as we'd all been assuming.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 08-10-2018 6:27pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

As far as I know, she wasn't attacking "Linehan" on the grounds that he's Irish, so your point is nonsensical. He, on the other hand, was attacking her on the grounds that she is a transgender activist, and used her previous identity against her, sharing it with his 600,000 followers, potentially causing some of them to pile on. Nasty stuff. Anyway, the "police" gave him a verbal warning, which has no legal standing whatsoever and is the next step up from doing nothing at all. As long as he is mature enough to take heed of it, it prevents any more of their time from being wasted by a pair of stupid adults acting like children.

I was responding to your claim that as a cis white male you (and by extension Linehan) wasnt “a member of a group that has historically faced violence and discrimination solely for existing. In fact of course he was.

Yer Da sells Avon · 08-10-2018 6:28pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Except that's not what happened. She had a problem with linehan so she went after his wife by publishing her business details online. That is why he went on the attack, it's not because she is transgender but because his wife, who has nothing to do with this, was targeted. They are both in the wrong. She can't really complain about being "doxxed" when she did it first. Using the police to get the upper hand is ridiculous.

They're a pair of idiots, and her subsequent behaviour is the equivalent of a child hitting someone, getting hit back and then running to mammy. But he did use the fact that she is transgender against her, and continually and knowingly referred to her by her previous name, sharing it with his 600,000 followers - huge power imbalance there. His excuse for misgendering her was that he always refers to his trans friends (hmmm...) by their preferred pronouns, but "refuses to respect the pronouns of misogynists".

Yer Da sells Avon · 08-10-2018 6:29pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I was responding to your claim that as a cis white male you (and by extension Linehan) wasnt “a member of a group that has historically faced violence and discrimination solely for existing. In fact of course he was.

Fair enough, I probably should have said 'currently' rather than 'historically', to avoid this kind of diversion.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 08-10-2018 6:31pm

alaimacerc wrote: »

Gee, it's almost as if "SJW" is a poorly defined broad brush epithet without any clear meaning, used with gleeful abandon by right-wing opponents of both second-wave feminist and trans-right people! (And of more besides.) Rather than a precise, technical political science description reflecting the nuances of people's views, as we'd all been assuming.

Oh a lot of revolutionary movements (and witch hunts or moral panics) consume their own radicals. Nothing new there, either.

ceadaoin. · 08-10-2018 6:36pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

They're a pair of idiots, and her subsequent behaviour is the equivalent of a child hitting someone, getting hit back and then running to mammy. But he did use the fact that she is transgender against her, and continually and knowingly referred to her by her previous name, sharing it with his 600,000 followers - huge power imbalance there. His excuse for misgendering her was that he always refers to his trans friends (hmmm...) by their preferred pronouns, but "refuses to respect the pronouns of misogynists".

Well as somone who is constantly going after women who don't agree with them, or the female partners of men who don't agree with them, I'd imagine that she does have issues with women tbh. She has more than one previous name btw all of which are in the public domain. Her being officially a female since May of this year doesn't erase those.

alaimacerc · 08-10-2018 6:41pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Oh a lot of revolutionary movements (and witch hunts or moral panics) consume their own radicals. Nothing new there, either.

Never mind "new", nothing remotely similar to the case or people being discussed, either.

Yer Da sells Avon · 08-10-2018 6:43pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Well as somone who is constantly going after women who don't agree with them, or the female partners of men who don't agree with them, I'd imagine that she does have issues with women tbh. She has more than one previous name btw all of which are in the public domain. Her being officially a female since May of this year doesn't erase those.

It doesn't erase them, but it also doesn't excuse Linehan using them for the sole purpose of being an asshole to her, in response to her being an asshole to him. The funny thing is, he has a history of blocking people for really trivial stuff, like criticism of Father Ted. They should have blocked each other and moved on, like adults.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 08-10-2018 6:46pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

It doesn't erase them, but it also doesn't excuse Linehan using them for the sole purpose of being an asshole to her, in response to her being an asshole to him. The funny thing is, he has a history of blocking people for really trivial stuff, like criticism of Father Ted. They should have blocked each other and moved on, like adults.

One thing I agree with you about is that the blue ticks should not pile on. They have too much power.

bloodless_coup · 08-10-2018 6:57pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

cis white male

In the words of the great Norm McDonald, the term a "cis male" is a way of marginalizing normal people.

Snake Plisken · 08-10-2018 6:59pm

I was going to offer my support to Graham but he blocked me on Twitter

donaghs · 08-10-2018 9:46pm

According to GCN.ie: “When you have positioned yourself as the “wokest of woke” men, this is obviously not a good look for a straight, white middle class and middle aged man.”

When I heard he was straight, white and middle class I knew he was a disgraceful privileged subbhuman. But he’s middle aged as well? He’s just pure evil, no need to even read on!

In relation to him being “woke” or “normally acting like an SJW”, people should just accept that most people hold varied opinions that don’t always align with the entire agenda of a particular social/political group.

How Soon Is Now · 08-10-2018 10:05pm

Im running out of tongue to ****ing bite on every time i see topics on the T word on here!

Yer Da sells Avon · 08-10-2018 10:28pm

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Im running out of tongue to ****ing bite on every time i see topics on the T word on here!

In fairness, threads about this topic are rarely, if ever, started by people who are sympathetic to transgender people. They're just another group to bash.

Spanish Eyes · 08-10-2018 10:33pm

I really don't know what the issue is in Ireland. If you want to change your gender you can without any medical evidence or other backup. Off you go.

There hasn't been a problem with this here, and that is good. Not good to make it into an issue that really should not have so much traction. It is surely a private issue for the trans person.

But it seems to be a big issue over there in Brexitland. We are so much better at these things here it seems.

How Soon Is Now · 08-10-2018 11:02pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

In fairness, threads about this topic are rarely, if ever, started by people who are sympathetic to transgender people. They're just another group to bash.

I just don't think half of these subjects that affect so few people need to be discussed as often as they are.

SeanW · 09-10-2018 12:00am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What is "deadnaming"?

edit:

https://www.healthline.com/health/transgender/deadnaming

God there's a whole new language to learn. Deadnaming. Trigger warnings. "Privilege". Intersectionality. Manspreading. Mansplaining. "Woke". Millions of new gender pronouns.

Does anyone speak English anymore? :mad:

Milo Savory Joyrider wrote: »

It's mad that the police are entertaining this stuff though. It should be a Twitter matter imo, not a police matter.

The UK now arrests over a thousand people a year for stuff they say on social media. In addition, this is the country that literally prosecuted a boy for calling Scientology a "cult".

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/may/20/1

This stuff is troubling and bizarre, but alas, not surprising.

Pero_Bueno · 09-10-2018 12:18am

JupiterKid wrote: »

I'm a gay man with socially liberal views and a general centre-left political viewpoint but Im getting sick of the way additional letters are being added to the LGBT category that it is becoming meaningless. Also stupid terms like "cis", non-binary, TERF and other such rubbish...left wing ideology is eating itself.

Because I'm cautious about unfettered immigation to Europe and pre-op transwomen demanding to use women only spaces I've been branded an Islamophobe and a transphobe by some. Sad.

As you said - eating themselves!

removed2 · 09-10-2018 12:39am

Pero_Bueno wrote: »

As you said - eating themselves!

the star will gorge itself on clay

harry Bailey esq · 09-10-2018 2:47am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/police-speak-to-father-ted-cocreator-after-twitter-transphobia-row-37393122.html

Seems a bit ridiculous?

I opened this thinking it was Graham Norton. That woulda been a scoop

AndrewJRenko · 11-10-2018 9:47pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

Because I'm cautious about unfettered immigation to Europe and pre-op transwomen demanding to use women only spaces I've been branded an Islamophobe and a transphobe by some. Sad.

What difference does the op make to the safety (or otherwise) of someone using a women-only space?

Calhoun · 12-10-2018 4:13pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

I'm a gay man with socially liberal views and a general centre-left political viewpoint but Im getting sick of the way additional letters are being added to the LGBT category that it is becoming meaningless. Also stupid terms like "cis", non-binary, TERF and other such rubbish...left wing ideology is eating itself.

Because I'm cautious about unfettered immigation to Europe and pre-op transwomen demanding to use women only spaces I've been branded an Islamophobe and a transphobe by some. Sad.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

It's only one case I know but with all the threats of rape against terfs ect and stuff like the above you can see why folk have concerns .

alaimacerc · 14-10-2018 1:40pm

SeanW wrote: »

God there's a whole new language to learn. Deadnaming. Trigger warnings. "Privilege". Intersectionality. Manspreading. Mansplaining. "Woke". Millions of new gender pronouns.

Does anyone speak English anymore? :mad:

Ah yes, the "purity" of the English language. A certain James Nicholl quote springs to mind.

Language changes. You may or may not like any given change, but being loudly offended at other people's supposed over-sensitivity on that basis alone risks looking pretty silly.

alaimacerc · 14-10-2018 1:48pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I really don't know what the issue is in Ireland. If you want to change your gender you can without any medical evidence or other backup. Off you go.

There hasn't been a problem with this here, and that is good. Not good to make it into an issue that really should not have so much traction. It is surely a private issue for the trans person.

You'd think. But there's a weird, unholy alliance of people outraged otherwise. There's the second-wave feminists; there's the reader of the Femail supplement; there's the "it's political correctness gone mad!" element.

But it seems to be a big issue over there in Brexitland. We are so much better at these things here it seems.

We're much better at that one pretty recently, mind: Ireland went from no recognition at all of changes of legal gender to basically self-cert. The UK has had elaborately-gatekept recognition for a while, and there's a certain amount of pushback on switching to the (brand new!) Irish model, as above.

MikeyTaylor · 14-10-2018 2:07pm

So who is in the wrong? Seems to be fault on both sides.

alaimacerc · 14-10-2018 2:11pm

MikeyTaylor wrote: »

So who is in the wrong? Seems to be fault on both sides.

I think both, yes.

The headline was fairly dramatic, but by my reading of the actual story here, to be a little fair to the police here...

We'd two people, each complaining of the other "harassing" them, using hate speech against them, and so on. Da cops have... told them (or one of them at least, wasn't clear what they'd told the other party) to... not contact the other person, that they feel harassed by, and that they accuse of harassing them.

I think that's maybe in "no sh!t, Sherlock" territory.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-10-2018 2:15pm

alaimacerc wrote: »

You'd think. But there's a weird, unholy alliance of people outraged otherwise. There's the second-wave feminists; there's the reader of the Femail supplement; there's the "it's political correctness gone mad!" element.

We're much better at that one pretty recently, mind: Ireland went from no recognition at all of changes of legal gender to basically self-cert. The UK has had elaborately-gatekept recognition for a while, and there's a certain amount of pushback on switching to the (brand new!) Irish model, as above.

I would say that the cost of self identification hasn’t really been identified yet. It is interesting how little debate, in Parliament or in public, in newspapers or on TV the whole thing generated.

Maybe we got sick of divisive cultural divisions over the last generation.

alaimacerc · 14-10-2018 2:35pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I would say that the cost of self identification hasn’t really been identified yet. It is interesting how little debate, in Parliament or in public, in newspapers or on TV the whole thing generated.

Maybe we got sick of divisive cultural divisions over the last generation.

Or had too many other ones to be worrying about at the time!

TBF, I share your surprise. As I understand it, the Bill was originally going to be very much on the UK model. Get a battery of docs to tell the state what your gender is, after said docs decide what sort of societal, hormonal or surgical interventions were appropriate, the whole thing taking some significant time. Then late on, it changed entirely to the self-cert model.

Perhaps it's no surprise there's not a loud objection from the "TERF" POV -- Ireland's still pretty much at the "too early to say" stage when it comes to '60s feminism. Doubtless Iona, etc, had other "moral issues" to be policing the nation on that they felt were more appropriate.

For the FG perspective, I'm sure this model has many attractions. It's seen to be the socially liberal thing to do -- leapfrogging the UK, indeed! But it also neatly sidesteps the whole awkward "provision of services" business. You filled in your form, you got your cert -- now go away while we make a half-hearted attempted to deal with the hospital trolley crisis.

ceadaoin. · 14-10-2018 4:25pm

alaimacerc wrote: »

Or had too many other ones to be worrying about at the time!

TBF, I share your surprise. As I understand it, the Bill was originally going to be very much on the UK model. Get a battery of docs to tell the state what your gender is, after said docs decide what sort of societal, hormonal or surgical interventions were appropriate, the whole thing taking some significant time. Then late on, it changed entirely to the self-cert model.

Perhaps it's no surprise there's not a loud objection from the "TERF" POV -- Ireland's still pretty much at the "too early to say" stage when it comes to '60s feminism. Doubtless Iona, etc, had other "moral issues" to be policing the nation on that they felt were more appropriate.

For the FG perspective, I'm sure this model has many attractions. It's seen to be the socially liberal thing to do -- leapfrogging the UK, indeed! But it also neatly sidesteps the whole awkward "provision of services" business. You filled in your form, you got your cert -- now go away while we make a half-hearted attempted to deal with the hospital trolley crisis.

As far as I know, the Irish bill has exemptions where services can be provided based on sex. These are prisons, hospitals, a female who identifies as male can't become a priest etc

The only exemption proposed in the UK is that females can't identify as male to inherit titles or land through primogeniture. So I guess sex only matters when it comes to females possibly getting something over males.

suicide_circus · 14-10-2018 4:59pm

when you go in for a medical check up, do you get a cervical or a prostate exam? can men have cervical smears? can women have their prostate checked?

alaimacerc · 14-10-2018 5:09pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

when you go in for a medical check up, do you get a cervical or a prostate exam? can men have cervical smears? can women have their prostate checked?

What about people that have had any of the above surgically removed? (For example, due to cancer treatment.) Or have an intersex condition?

Is your plan to seize someone's full medical records before you consider their request as to their preferred pronouns?

suicide_circus · 14-10-2018 5:10pm

alaimacerc wrote: »

What about people that have had any of the above surgically removed? (For example, due to cancer treatment.) Or have an intersex condition?

Is your plan to seize someone's full medical records before you consider their request as to their preferred pronouns?

What? I use preferred pronouns and I do not to my knowledge have the authority to seize anyone's medical records.

alaimacerc · 14-10-2018 5:12pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

What? I use preferred pronouns and I do not to my knowledge have the authority to seize anyone's medical records.

Grand, so. So why is your initial question material to this discussion of GL and his charming demeanour on twitter?

suicide_circus · 14-10-2018 5:16pm

alaimacerc wrote: »

Grand, so. So why is your initial question material to this discussion of GL and his charming demeanour on twitter?

just musing on the general subject matter. so sorry to have triggered.

alaimacerc · 14-10-2018 9:13pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

just musing on the general subject matter. so sorry to have triggered.

Ah, so here to talk in lazy clichés, not to meaningfully discuss anything. Grand, it's good to know early on.

suicide_circus · 14-10-2018 10:07pm

you must be new here

alaimacerc · 14-10-2018 10:43pm

Well, there's AH levels of "meaningful", and then there's "OMG triggered" levels of discourse.

branie2 · 14-10-2018 11:49pm

Muscles Schultz wrote: »

I hear you’re a transphobiaist now Father

Transgender people, a great bunch of lads!

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 3:35pm

I see Stephanie has got the local police force to arrest another person for tweeting her dead name.

It’s reported in the daily mail but to not make the paper that reported it the issue I’ll link instead to the mumsnet discussion on it.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3504035-Sky-News-just-featured-story-appearing-in-tomorrows-Sunday-Mail

Robert Wolfe · 10-02-2019 3:40pm

How can you justify arresting someone for using the wrong name?

You can change your name by deed poll but I'm under no obligation to address you by your new name.

Britain is like a sick joke at this stage.

freshpopcorn · 10-02-2019 3:52pm

I say they are police men/women out there and they probably want to make a difference and they can't believe they've to deal with this stuff.

Robert Wolfe · 10-02-2019 3:57pm

AllForIt wrote: »

The more I try to understand transexual issue...the more confused I get.

What's to understand? Just a bunch of crazy lads in drag thinking they're girls.

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 3:57pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I see Stephanie has got the local police force to arrest another person for tweeting her dead name.

Was that actually the reason for the arrest, or was there something more to it?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It’s reported in the daily mail but to not make tge paper that reported it the issue I’ll link instead to the mumsnet discussion on it.

Out of the frying pan...

FTA69 · 10-02-2019 4:03pm

Absolutely sick of this nonsense debate. Load of headers on all sides of it.

Outlaw Pete · 10-02-2019 4:10pm

That was months ago she got arrested.

I read a bunch of her tweets at the time and she was on about misogyny and safe spaces for women the rest of the time she wasn't moaning about this issue.

Seems to me it's yet another case of the left eating itself.

Here's some of the tweets that got her arrested:

https://twitter.com/BustedWench/status/1016990292220764162

https://twitter.com/BustedWench/status/1032662764165189639

https://twitter.com/BustedWench/status/974680058710450177

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-02-2019 4:15pm

How ****in' hard is it too get someone's name right?

How often do you hear someone insisting on refering to Tom Cruise as as Thomas Mapother the Fourth just because it's his 'real' name?

smilerf · 10-02-2019 4:15pm

All this trans stuff is a load of ****
At the end of the day they are blokes playing dress up

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 4:25pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Was that actually the reason for the arrest, or was there something more to it?

Yes. That alone. As reported.

Out of the frying pan...

It interesting how many woke males are opposing the mumsnet feminist position.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 4:27pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Absolutely sick of this nonsense debate. Load of headers on all sides of it.

Convenient for the ruling classes that these kind of things are the political debate, alright.

Graham Linehan given police warning for "transphobia"

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