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View Poll Results: Should we stop bullying the UK?
Yes, they are our neighbor 77 16.24%
Give them 800 years (then stop bullying them) 397 83.76%
Voters: 474. You may not vote on this poll

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19-02-2018, 05:07   #16
Kermit.de.frog
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Originally Posted by Try_harder View Post
The UK need to learn the difference between fantasy and reality

Brexiteer Fantasy: Rule Britannia

Brexit Reality: Isolated island with limited trading powers without the EU
But what if they make it work and actually do well?

Heard some politicians talk about Empire 2.0?
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19-02-2018, 05:12   #17
Peregrinus
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But what if they make it work and actually do well?
That would be in our interests, frankly, and we will do nothing to impede it. But the truth is it that this is a wildly unlikely outcome; those who expect it are engaged in wishful thinking rooted in ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Kermit.de.frog View Post
Heard some politicians talk about Empire 2.0?
Well, QED, I think!
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19-02-2018, 05:19   #18
Try_harder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit.de.frog View Post
But what if they make it work and actually do well?

Heard some politicians talk about Empire 2.0?
Off the backs of whom, this time time, I wonder???
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19-02-2018, 06:25   #19
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Ridiculous leading question. We're not bullying the UK. If your friend took their nose out of the Daily Mail and the Telegraph they might start to appreciate the world doesn't revolve around old Blighty. If the government here were to simply concede to Tory demands it would be a massive dereliction of responsibility.

There's a yawning chasm in the UK between the younger and older generations, between people willing to take on board facts and people who are deaf to reason - that's a UK problem, not an Irish one.
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19-02-2018, 06:33   #20
mikemac2
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Vote leave because of immigration.

Retire to Spain, refuse to learn Spanish, refuse to integrate, demand eggs n’chips and watery beer in the local bar, use the Spanish health service for your elderly needs. Complain about Polish shops in London while you shop in British shops in Spain.

But it’s all ok because anyone brown coming to the Uk is immigrant while any Brit abroad is an expat.

Your elderly brexit voter
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19-02-2018, 06:35   #21
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Originally Posted by Kermit.de.frog View Post
A British friend of mine told me today he felt Ireland was bullying the UK (I know!)over Brexit.
Tell your friend to go and take a sh1t in his hat.
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19-02-2018, 06:39   #22
Peregrinus
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. . . But aside from self interest maybe we should be supporting them? Sometimes I feel we are more British than Finchley.

They are our friends.
We are not more British than Finchley, I think I can safely say. I don't know where you got that idea from. Have you ever been to Finchley?

Still, they (generally) are our friends. More to the point, we generally try to be their friends.

Still, sometimes it's the business of a friend to sit you down and point out to you that you are making a very mistake. This is not generally welcome advice, but that doesn't mean it isn't friendly advice.

As between Ireland and the UK, right now is one of those times. Not much would be served by us pointing out to the UK how stupid they are being, I concede, but we can help them by doing our bit to ensure that their Brest tends towards soft, rather than hard. Thus anything we can do which might result in them ending up in, or at least a bit closer than would otherwise be the case to, the Single Market and/or the Customs Union is definitely something that a friend should do.

So, right now we are being very friendly towards the UK. Friendlier, if the truth be told, than they are being to themselves.

Perhaps you meant your poll question to be "Should we start bullying the UK?"
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19-02-2018, 06:48   #23
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Originally Posted by Kermit.de.frog View Post

Heard some politicians talk about Empire 2.0?
Which politicians?

Unless they start repoulating places like St. Kildas and Scarba and try to pass them off as colonial outposts that kind of talk is pure fantasy.

There's quite a jingoistic tone prevailing in the UK among a certain cohort. A recent poll shows that the majority of over-65s want to see the return of compulsory National Service. Even though the majority polled were too young to have done it themselves.
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19-02-2018, 06:54   #24
OneEightSeven
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Originally Posted by mikemac2 View Post
Vote leave because of immigration.
According to a Lord Ashcroft poll, 49% voted leave because of sovereignty. 33% for to leave due to immigration.

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Retire to Spain, refuse to learn Spanish, refuse to integrate, demand eggs n’chips and watery beer in the local bar,
How are they refusing to integrate? Are they imposing cultural beliefs on the native Spanish, like the way Muslims are grooming underage girls in England and form Islamist political parties like Islam4UK? The ones who voted to leave the UK because of immigration are working class folk who can't afford holiday homes.

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use the Spanish health service for your elderly needs.
Which they have to pay for. Spain operates a combination of private and public health care, with public health care available on a contribution-based system, meaning that you have to pay into the social security system in order for you and your dependents to have access to free health care.

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Complain about Polish shops in London while you shop in British shops in Spain.
Why would they be complaining about Polish shops in London while living in Spain?

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But it’s all ok because anyone brown coming to the Uk is immigrant while any Brit abroad is an expat.
No, I'm sure their definition of immigrant extends to white Europeans.

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Your elderly brexit voter
Bullshít.
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19-02-2018, 06:55   #25
force eleven
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I wish we had the same backbone and voted out. Well, we voted twice on treaties from Brussels and they didn't like that one bit. Little Ireland wasn't going to stop the Eurocrats dream of a federal Europe, one state, one currency, one bank, one tax rate. All gradually coming to fruition. If you like all the rules being made from a group of unelected career politicians that nobody heard of before they got their portfolios, that's fine. Good luck, and the majority of people in Ireland are good with that or simply don't care, or trust Leo (ha ha). Britain voted out for those reasons plus they have immigration concerns. Many here disagree, again, fine. It's happening though, and Ireland needs to think for itself as to how to handle it, and take a firm stance with Brussels, as well as London.
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19-02-2018, 06:57   #26
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Anybody read the d Irish story the worm has turned.
I can’t remember the translation.
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19-02-2018, 06:58   #27
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19-02-2018, 07:01   #28
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It's fairly inevitable that they'll blame everyone else for the fact that they've got to deal with reality.

They've just potentially destroyed the NI peace process and could cause tens of billions of damage to the Irish economy, yet we're bullying them?

There's an answer to a comment like that : grow the **** up and stop whining! The world doesn't owe you a living!
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19-02-2018, 07:11   #29
Peregrinus
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Originally Posted by jooksavage View Post
Which politicians?

Unless they start repopulating places like St. Kildas and Scarba and try to pass them off as colonial outposts that kind of talk is pure fantasy.
The term popped up about a year ago. As far as I can make out it was attributed in news reports not to politicians but to unnamed Whitehall mandarins. (E.g.: "Britain will try to boost trade relations with African Commonwealth nations in a move dubbed “Empire 2.0” by Whitehall officials" - Daily Express, 6 March 2017.) Note that the officials concerned are unnamed because they were sceptical of the idea. ("A few Whitehall officials, however, are expressing scepticism about the idea. They are said to have described Mr Fox’s ambitions for a renewed trading relationship with the Commonwealth as 'Empire 2.0.'" - Financial Times, 8 March 2017).

The term wasn't coined as an approving one, so; it was intended derisively. But it does refer to Liam Fox's plans to enter into trade agreements, and build up trade, with Commonwealth countries, and he has the kind of cloth ears and cotton-wool brain that might just possibly allow him to think that it was an approving term, and to adopt it himself. Fox deludes himself that the British empire was basically a good thing, and that a period in which Britain enriched itself through genocide, slavery and colonial rule is fondly remembered by its victims, leaving a treasury of goodwill on which the UK can now draw in the form of favourable trade deals. It's just possible that Fox might think that associating his drive for Commonwealth trade deals with the Empire will confer an advantage.

But, to my lasting regret, I can't find that Fox ever has used the term, still less adopted it for his own plans.

Besides, whatever you call it, the whole idea is misconceived. It's true that in the nineteenth century the UK was both the hub of the largest empire on earth and the greatest manufacturing and trading nation the world had ever seen. But these were two separate things. Even at the height of its imperial power, the UK traded more with Europe and the United States than with the colonies. British capital fueled the booming cities of the American north, and the slave-driven cotton economy of the deep south. By comparison, not a lot went to Africa. Similarly with trade in goods; the UK did more trade with tiny Denmark, for instance, than with Nigeria, one of her biggest west African colonies.

In short, not even Empire 1.0 was a functional trade bloc. It's geography and economics, not politics and ideology, that drives trade flows.

Last edited by Peregrinus; 19-02-2018 at 08:03.
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19-02-2018, 07:16   #30
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Britain is not our biggest trading partner; the US is. I don't know where doolox gets his figures from; the UK accounts for 15% of our exports and 32% of our imports. The notion that we are "bullying" the UK is just laughable and as for Varadkar "showing more tact", well, we tried the softly, softly approach and the UK basically ignored us. If we are now upfront about defending our own interests, that is entirely the result of the UK's policy of ignoring unpleasant realities unless given no choice.

It is possible that there may be some backlash from some quarters in Britain against Ireland for trying to protect our interests. That would not be a reason, however, to give up trying to protect our interests.
Take pharma out of it.

They are our most important trade partner.
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