Forum feedback

I have not posted on the forum that much, but I have noticed that, it seems, more atheists, or other "non believers", post than Catholics and other Christians. The general thrust of these posts tends to be some version or combination of "how do you believe this sh!t" or general "you/your religion is bad" or "look at this bad thing that happened in the name of your religion".

This website (and indeed "vocal" Irish society in general) are hostile to Christianity, and Catholicism especially. This results in more "articulate" Catholics keeping the head down, because who has the time or the inclination? Why would you try and have a discussion on a Christian forum about your religion where you will be constantly expected to justify your beliefs (Note I said justify, not explain - "why do you believe this particular thing" is much different from a basic assertion "how do you believe this rubbish") or deal with belittlement? Now, you might be interested in apologetics, but that's different.

I don't like to talk about myself but take this thread for example:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058114788

I started this as a discussion about the rational or logical arguments for the existence of God. Much of the thread was consumed with atheists or other non believers wanting to skip over the actual topic, and instead bash or rubbish belief in God and by extension, believers. Now it never really got that far, mainly because I wouldn't bite and kept trying to redirect the discussion. Now it was an interesting enough discussion in the end, but it wasn't exactly what it was started to be, and it took a lot of effort for me to avoid it descending into the usual nonsense.

Or take this thread: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058118591

It's an interesting (if somewhat robustly worded !) OP, but, if I were to be very critical, rather than an attempt to explore the "problem of evil" I could argue that it is essentially a strawman argument ending in a challenge to, basically, "justify this crap". Now I would never say that I am entitled to be replied to or engaged with, but my reply to that thread was a selection of some of the theological responses (not worded very well, I'm not a theologian) to the central issue raised, but these were ignored in preference to a rubbishing of the (I don't mean to be unkind) less "canonical" responses and arguments offered by a poster.

I do not think it would be possible to discuss some of the finer points of Christianity on this forum. Pope Francis released a new encyclical today, would a thread on this get past the first page without descending into the usual arguments? Is there much difference in content between this and the atheist forum except for the fact that people have to be a bit less obviously disrespectful to religious belief here?

I don't blame the moderators, or the Charter, both seem good. But there are no Christian moderators, which seems very odd to me to be honest.

I think the forum can only be useful if Catholics and Christians actually use it. If they are outnumbered (in threads at least) by atheists why would I or anyone else, who wants to discuss their faith, actually post? EDIT: Just to pre-empt what some would say in response to this, some variation of "Christians should be open to defending their faith, or, you can't expect assertions to go unchallenged etc etc, this is fair enough, but would a soccer fan post in that forum if the majority of vocal posters there were people who didn't like soccer and basically asked anyone who does to explain why they like it and then had to constantly justify their like of it?

So I think the forum should be made a more comfortable place for Christians to post in, in the hope that more Christians would use it. This would make the forum altogether more interesting and useful. How exactly to do this remains to be seen!

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How do you propose to do that, short of banning any non-Christian from posting there?

I think the extreme positions adopted by some Christian posters are much more responsible for moderates staying away as anything atheists have posted there.

Have you started a thread on the encyclical to see what would happen, or at least give it a chance? I doubt many atheists would be interested in such a thread but the real question would be how many Catholics are...

So you think that banning atheists from posting would attract more christian posters. Why do you think that?


Your final paragraph is quite revealing...

Deleted User wrote: »

Christianity is a form of belief, so why would you not want non-Christians raising interesting points about your beliefs? Do you want to find out if your beliefs are correct or possibly need changing, or do you just want to continue believing what you believe no matter what interesting points are made because you're Christian now and you'll always be Christian, no matter what?

What if I want to discuss my beliefs with like minded individuals?


I don't disagree with the general thrust of what you said but it doesn't really work if Christians are a minority on this forum and essentially "crowded out" does it?

Deleted User wrote: »

If you primarily only want to talk to Christians about your beliefs, then I would argue that your beliefs are not that important to you as you have no interest in hearing the other side of the story and ascertaining if your beliefs are in fact correct.

So why do you post here, to tell Catholics and Christians that they are wrong?

Point One of the Charter: 1. The purpose of this forum is to discuss Christian belief in general, and specific elements of it, between Christians and non-Christians alike. This forum has the additional purpose of being a point on Boards.ie where Christians may ask other Christians questions about their shared faith. In this regard, Christians should not have to defend their faith from overt or subtle attack.

And as Hotblack Desiato said, if you start a thread primarily about a niche Christian topic, it's unlikely that non-Christians will post. But if you entitle a thread "Arguments in favour of the existence of God", then it's only natural (and correct) that non-Christians should post.

Are you saying that I was expecting too much that the OP of that thread would be read and not just the title?

Huh, that's weird. I was so sure that when Christianity started, it was also in the minority. Seemed to do alright for itself back in the day. And again, why do you not feel that you being in the minority might not be part of God's plan?

You seem very anxious to be reassured that you are taking part in God's plan.

Do you not think the forum would be better if more Christians posted here? More Christians does not mean that less atheists would be allowed post, unless you too, like Hotblack Desiato think that if less atheists posted here more Christians would? Why do you think this?

I was asked by the moderator, the OP of this thread, to make a contribution to this thread so I gave it some thought and did so, and now you are saying (in another thread, referencing this one - lets keep posts in their proper threads shall we?) that I am arguing that God "couldn't possibly have any reasons for allowing atheists to post in this forum".
Why would I be inclined to spend my time engaging with this? I don't think you are interested in a mutually enlightening and useful discussion.

Deleted User wrote: »

No, to have a constructive debate. So, what would be your response to what I said? "If you primarily only want to talk to Christians about your beliefs, then I would argue that your beliefs are not that important to you as you have no interest in hearing the other side of the story and ascertaining if your beliefs are in fact correct."

I don't think it's unreasonable to want to talk to other Christians about Christianity on the Christianity forum. According to you, wanting to discuss a topic with like minded people means I'm not serious about topic, unless someone is also shouting in my ear about how it's all nonsense? What, eh, nonsense. According to you if I want to discuss Christianity with Christians I first need to run the gauntlet and justify and defend my beliefs to an atheist? This is silly and again brings us back to question of what this forum is actually for.

It is quite arrogant of you really, to make some sort of assumption that I or others haven't given our beliefs a great deal of thought - this arrogance springs from a deep rooted position you have where you will never change your mind. (Of course, you can, with some degree of disingenuous comfort, state that you are open to changing your mind but you would need evidence of something you regard as an impossibility, so it is not a meaningful, honest statement on your part)

No, not sure where you are getting that from.

"But if you entitle a thread "Arguments in favour of the existence of God", then it's only natural (and correct) that non-Christians should post."

No, I'm atheist.

And also a tough crowd for a joke.

So what was the purpose of you posting in this thread? Your feedback is that atheists should still be allowed to post, but there should be also more Christians? So your feedback is that you want the mods to magic more Christians out of thin air? Good feedback, they'll see what they can do.

I was asked to provide some feedback on the forum by the OP. I will let him/her explain further why when they have a chance.

I am demonstrating to you how flawed your logic is that God may have his reasons for killing babies but certainly couldn't possibly have any reasons for having many atheists post in this forum. If you can easily accept the former but can't easily accept the latter, then I cannot help you.

I think I will let the fair minded reader draw their own conclusions on your, now oft repeated, "point".

Anyway, my point is that if Christians are getting crowded out on threads on the same points over and over, and as a result the forum is not very welcoming, few Christians will post. I think this is bad overall for the forum.

I am asking myself why would I, or a fellow Christian or Catholic, you did not want to engage in apologetics, bother posting on this forum? What is the difference between me posting here and on the atheist forum? I have done both and there is very little difference.

I don't have a solution, but identifying a problem is the first step to solving it. But perhaps a change in tone, content and approach by some posters would help.

Deleted User wrote: »

No, but wanting to alienate non-Christians is. You don't have to reply to every comment that is made, even if that comment is a direct response to one of yours. Boards also has an ignore feature so that if there are particular atheists (cough) who you feel are constantly shouting at you then you can ignore them and their posts won't show. You can have conversations with like-minded people without the need to change anything.

I like to post on threads and have discussions that are useful and interesting. Not having a good Christianity forum is no skin off my back. Do you think the forum is perfect, or anything approaching that?

No, if they have raised some good points and you can't think of an intelligent response then you can just ignore the comment.

It only takes a few seconds to read a comment. And for long comments you can usually figure out if it's a Christian or not after the first sentence or two. If you are able to sit through mass then I'm sure you'll manage just fine.

If you're sitting through Mass you're doing it wrong. Poor dig, 2/10.

I made no such assumption, I said that you wanting X implies that you are likely Y. I did not assume that you were Y.

I actually frequently switch between atheism and apatheism, and I in fact believe that it should be considered normal for people to switch frequently as new evidence is presented to them. It's in fact people who still believe as an adult the religion they were indoctrinated into as a child who very rarely change their beliefs. They typically believe what they believe because it's what they know most about and nothing more. Have you read the Koran for example? Or anything similar? I would take a wild guess that I know more about religion than you do, but I suppose another one of my wild assumptions might upset you.

Ah yes, indoctrinated John must be ignorant or thick, certainly in comparison to your good self.

Yes, and I have no idea what your reply has to do with what I said. Atheists will naturally want to discuss a topic about the existence of God etc, but they are less likely to reply to a thread about a particular scripture etc. because that scripture in their view has no significance.

If you read the first post in the thread, I shouldn't have to spoon feed you like this, but here:
"Everyone has a different journey to make regarding God, and He speaks to us and makes His presence known to each individual in different ways.

Personally, the exciting road I am on started off when I became truly open to the idea of the existence of "a" God. Before this I was a lapsed Catholic, probably agnostic if not atheist, only "resorting" to my faith in desperate times of crisis. In many ways I was a victim of the prevailing idea that there were no rational, philosophical or otherwise, arguments for the existence of God, and that you could only believe in this type of thing if you were stupid, or denied science.

But having the hunger for the truth, I began to explore these things more deeply, and discovered that there are "rational" arguments for the existence of God. Once I became open to the idea and possibility, indeed probability, of "a" God existing, things have flowed from there and as times goes on and I explore the scriptures etc, my faith has grown. But this wouldn't have happened without getting over that first hurdle.

As one example, I found Aquinas' five ways helpful. But I am interested in what other "rational" (by this I mean knowledge and understanding gained outside of immediate personal encounters with God/Holy Spirit/Grace etc.) arguments posters here have found helpful, because I think these open the door (they have for me anyway). So please do share."

And so what are you hoping will be done? You wrote a nice essay which could have been summed up in one sentence "I want more Christians in the Christian forum". How do you expect the mods to achieve this mind-blowing thought that you've had?

It is good practice to back up a point rather than leave it a mere statement.

You want me to post this in an atheist forum is it? (See, I'm capable of jokes. )

I assure you that a forum that tries to justify child cancer is already not very welcoming. (Another joke FYI.)

I see.

There is a lot of difference, as I already said. If you post about a niche Christian topic, very few if any non-Christians will reply. In fact, in that sense, the Christianity forum is already more welcoming than the atheist forum as there very few thread topics in that forum that I can think of where there wouldn't be a possibility of a Christian responding.

There is a difference between discussion and outright undermining and attacking. I don't have an issue with the latter, but what is the point of a Christianity forum? This is what I mean by tone, approach and content. So one can only have a discussion with Christians, without having to wade through the same, oft repeated arguments from atheists, if the thread is sufficiently obscure or boring so as to not attract their attention?

I have been on Boards for 15 years. There has been atheists and Christians posting in each other's forum since I joined and before. You have not identified any problem, you have made a generalised comment that the mods and others are well aware of and that exists on any Christian forum on the internet. There are private Christian Facebook groups available if you want to have your Christian-only talks, but you won't have that here on a public forum.

Again, at no stage did I say anyone should be stopped posting, but that its a pretty crap Christianity forum if the majority of vocal participants are atheists whose resultant posts send threads down the same avenue again and again. That doesnt mean that atheists shouldnt post, but rather a change in approach would be helpful.


Anyway, I posted on this thread because I was (very nicely) asked to offer my thoughts. I'm sorry you found them so aggravating.


Anyway, I think it will be interesting to see what the mod team have to say, hopefully they or others will find my thoughts less useless than you have.

I think the changes are worth a chance if people don't take the proverbial with the "Christians Only" option