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    #62
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    I understand your roll, but I'm an agnostic myself and I think if there's a safe space for Atheists to use, then why not for Christians.

    Im not a lover of the Abrahamic faith, but I see it has its merits too.

    Maybe like I suggested before there should be a forum for people who are open minded about these subjects and they can have civil discussion without the usual interloopers coming out of the rocks and upsetting the apple cart.

    Contempt prior to personal investigation is a good thing.

    Having been a Christian myself and now a pagan I can see both sides of the discussion.
    I read a lot of books and listened to debates which are civil and respectful.

    I was asked in this forum to keep my negative views about the Abrahamic God and I respect their wishes.
    Because the moderator was polite and there wasn't any personal digs fired at me or smart arse posts about me afterwards telling the rest of the posters about my posts etc

    Here's my suggestion, I think Christians might like it too, and I'll moderate it, keep it safe for people who like discussion rather than having narcissists and strident atheists making it hostile.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058078817


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    #63
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    nthclare wrote: »
    . . . So you're a moderator in the Christianity forum and Atheism and Agnosticism forum too.

    . . .

    What a joke, which side is your slice of bread buttered???

    I think there should be a clear out of moderators and get rid of the dinasaurs and have neutral moderators.
    If you can't tell which side the moderator's slice of bread is buttered, doesn't that suggest they're doing a pretty good job, neutrality-wise?


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    smacl wrote: »
    With respect, I don't think atheists have ever felt squeezed out of the A&A forum by an excess of Christian interlopers, of which there have been plenty. This has however been the case here as stated in posts on the board, reported posts and PMs. The charters on both forums are different to best suit their audiences, I think many on the A&A forum enjoy having their stance on religion challenged as a mechanism to discuss and refine it. While some here may be of a similar mind, others are not and hence the charter is explicit about Christians not having to defend their faith.

    This isn't the A&A forum it is the Christianity forum, and like it or not, to post here you have to follow the local charter.


    I must not be very clear here, because I agree with all of this!

    I'm still confused about how a *thread by thread* approach of "Christians only" achieves the stated goal, Vs the moderation approach described above (which I would agree with, fwiw)

    I'll leave it there, as I'm not highly invested other than a passing interest.


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    #65
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    If you can't tell which side the moderator's slice of bread is buttered, doesn't that suggest they're doing a pretty good job, neutrality-wise?

    Try posting as an open minded agnostic in the other place, then you'll see the fairness in moderation...

    Maybe there should be 3 forums.

    Atheism Agnosticism Christianity


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    #66
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    nthclare wrote: »
    I understand your roll, but I'm an agnostic myself and I think if there's a safe space for Atheists to use, then why not for Christians.

    I suspect you have that the wrong way around, e.g. safe space for Christians. If you're looking for something similar in the atheist forum, raise it there, not here.
    Im not a lover of the Abrahamic faith, but I see it has its merits too.

    Maybe like I suggested before there should be a forum for people who are open minded about these subjects and they can have civil discussion without the usual interloopers coming out of the rocks and upsetting the apple cart.

    Contempt prior to personal investigation is a good thing.

    Having been a Christian myself and now a pagan I can see both sides of the discussion.
    I read a lot of books and listened to debates which are civil and respectful.

    I was asked in this forum to keep my negative views about the Abrahamic God and I respect their wishes.
    Because the moderator was polite and there wasn't any personal digs fired at me or smart arse posts about me afterwards telling the rest of the posters about my posts etc

    Here's my suggestion, I think Christians might like it too, and I'll moderate it, keep it safe for people who like discussion rather than having narcissists and strident atheists making it hostile.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058078817

    Mod: This is also off topic for this thread which is specifically and solely about making improvements to the Christianity forum to best suit the intended audience. New forum requests should be posted here. Note that, as pointed out to you previously, there is also already a world religions forum which caters for paganism. I appreciate that it is a very quiet forum but this is not a problem for posters on the Christianity or A&A forums.


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    #67
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    nthclare wrote: »
    Let's face it Smacl, your moderation isn't exactly the best.

    So you're a moderator in the Christianity forum and Atheism and Agnosticism forum too.

    The Atheism and Agnosticism forum has the worst moderators in the whole site.

    What a joke, which side is your slice of bread buttered???

    I think there should be a clear out of moderators and get rid of the dinasaurs and have neutral moderators.

    This reads an awful lot like you're just picking at things without any substance. If you've feedback to give you are welcome do so, but please refrain from vague comments that are pointed directly at someone.
    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Theists are perfectly free to post in A&A within its charter, same as non-Christians were perfectly free to post in Christianity within its charter - until now.

    This forum is about providing members with a place to discuss Christianity topics. No one wants to dismiss members from the discussions regardless of their view. It seems to me the members who want to be here are just asking for respect towards the purpose of the discussions in place.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Rather than create christian-only threads I'd have thought a reiteration that the Christian forum was a space for those of that faith.

    In the same way that it is poor form- and against charter- for theists to post in A&A as if their beliefs were to be respected as they would sometimes wish, surely there was room for atheists/agnostics to give the same courtesy (enforced by mods as required) to not turn up in a Christian space in full pugnacity?

    Time and a place, and all that.

    Disappointing to see this, personally- don't see it solving anything and disappointing that it was seen as required.

    I took the tags to be more of a guide as to what Point of View is being looked for in the thread. A "Christian" tag is asking for Christian perspectives, where as an "All" tag is open to other perspectives.


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    #68
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Well sticking with the subject matter, I think Christians are easy enough to discuss with, and if they want to be able to discuss their religion without someone dismantling their holy book then that's fair enough.

    There's another forum for that, and Im banned from it for 3 months because I wasn't behaving myself.

    What I like about the Christian forum is they're more polite when giving warnings and they're not hostile to non believers, and they answer pms and have a more empathic and fair nature about them.

    But if one forum can ban people who don't adhere to the charter then it's fair to say that the Christians can have it their way too.


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    #69
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    nthclare wrote: »
    But if one forum can ban people who don't adhere to the charter then it's fair to say that the Christians can have it their way too.

    All forums sanction posters who do not adhere to the local charter.


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    #70
    The White Wolf
    Registered Users Posts: 5,149 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    smacl wrote: »
    It can only really change by a concerted effort to change by all involved. In terms of moderation, I'll make every effort to create a space where that can occur but it really comes down to the posters here to keep the conversations going.

    While I appreciate that you're a long time poster here, my own involvement here as moderator is relatively recent. In that respect, I'd kindly ask you not to suggest posters move the conversation to Reddit until we've given more recent changes an opportunity to take effect.

    Not blaming the mods by any means bar a safe space which no one would want there's not much you can do. A lot of it comes downing to posters sometimes showing restraint when a thread is created clearly for the viewpoints of others who are religious.


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    #71
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    smacl wrote: »
    All forums sanction posters who do not adhere to the local charter.

    No they don't, they cherry pick who they want to ban, even I've seen a moderator who you and I am familiar with, break the charter say sorry about it and nothing said.

    Some charters are worded so well that if a moderator doesn't like you he or she can ban you.
    I'm only answering your post, not trying to be disruptive here.
    Because I don't get many warnings outside of a certain forum.


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    #72
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,938 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    It seems to me the members who want to be here are just asking for respect towards the purpose of the discussions in place.

    Fine but the charter already states this.
    I think excluding people en bloc from threads sets a very bad precedent for Boards in general.

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #73
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    nthclare wrote: »
    No they don't, they cherry pick who they want to ban, even I've seen a moderator who you and I am familiar with, break the charter say sorry about it and nothing said.

    Some charters are worded so well that if a moderator doesn't like you he or she can ban you.
    I'm only answering your post, not trying to be disruptive here.
    Because I don't get many warnings outside of a certain forum.

    DRP is available to pursue such grievances if you feel that some unfair attention is pointed towards you. Do you need to be asked again to stop using this thread for posting anything other than feedback?


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    #74
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    nthclare wrote: »
    No they don't, they cherry pick who they want to ban, even I've seen a moderator who you and I am familiar with, break the charter say sorry about it and nothing said.

    Some charters are worded so well that if a moderator doesn't like you he or she can ban you.
    I'm only answering your post, not trying to be disruptive here.
    Because I don't get many warnings outside of a certain forum.

    Mod warning: As previously, please restrict your comments to feedback on this forum. Discussions on the frequency and forums where you've been banned is off topic as is using the thread to complain about moderation elsewhere.


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    #75
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Fine but the charter already states this.
    I think excluding people en bloc from threads sets a very bad precedent for Boards in general.

    This is already an explicit part of the charter though, as shown below. The tags are merely a mechanism where the opening poster can optionally notify other posters that they wish to apply this option, hence avoiding ambiguity and potential for conflict and miscommunication.
    Fanny Cradock wrote: »
    The purpose of this forum is to discuss Christian belief in general, and specific elements of it, between Christians and non-Christians alike. This forum has the additional purpose of being a point on Boards.ie where Christians may ask other Christians questions about their shared faith. In this regard, Christians should not have to defend their faith from overt or subtle attack.


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    #76
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    smacl wrote: »
    Mod warning: As previously, please restrict your comments to feedback on this forum. Discussions on the frequency and forums where you've been banned is off topic as is using the thread to complain about moderation elsewhere.

    You're the one who made the observation
    And brought up the subject of other forums. Then you give me a warning about responding to your good self.
    That's kind of what this forum is about.

    One rule for the mods another for the lay person.

    Come on now smacl I am not stupid, we're not in school.


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    #77
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    nthclare wrote: »
    You're the one who made the observation
    And brought up the subject of other forums. Then you give me a warning about responding to your good self.
    That's kind of what this forum is about.

    One rule for the mods another for the lay person.

    Come on now smacl I am not stupid, we're not in school.

    Mod: Carded for ignoring direct mod instruction to stay on topic. This thread is for feedback specific to this forum, not a place for you to air your wider grievances.


  • Options
    #78
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Rather than create christian-only threads I'd have thought a reiteration that the Christian forum was a space for those of that faith.

    In the same way that it is poor form- and against charter- for theists to post in A&A as if their beliefs were to be respected as they would sometimes wish, surely there was room for atheists/agnostics to give the same courtesy (enforced by mods as required) to not turn up in a Christian space in full pugnacity?

    Time and a place, and all that.

    Disappointing to see this, personally- don't see it solving anything and disappointing that it was seen as required.

    I agree but sadly the atheists who come on here don't show any respect for those who are Christian on this forum. I've no problems with it in A&A but this forum was always meant to be a safe space.
    I've seen the atheist telegraph at work over the years. None come near the forum for ages and then suddenly there's a post and they descend like a plague of locusts to denigrate Christianity. Isn't that what the 'funny things about religion' thread is meant to be about.


    Can't see the tags helping. Atheists showing common courtesy would but can't see that happening. After 10 years and 20,000 posts I've seen too much to believe that will happen.


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    #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SouthWesterly wrote: »
    I agree but sadly the atheists who come on here don't show any respect for those who are Christian on this forum. I've no problems with it in A&A but this forum was always meant to be a safe space.
    I've seen the atheist telegraph at work over the years. None come near the forum for ages and then suddenly there's a post and they descend like a plague of locusts to denigrate Christianity. Isn't that what the 'funny things about religion' thread is meant to be about.


    Can't see the tags helping. Atheists showing common courtesy would but can't see that happening. After 10 years and 20,000 posts I've seen too much to believe that will happen.

    As I've mentioned already, you've shown a lack of respect and courtesy many times on the A&A forum in the past, e.g. here. Trying to act all high and mighty by suggesting that it's only atheists that act in the ways you suggest isn't going solve any problems, only worsen them.


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    #80
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    As I've mentioned already, you've shown a lack of respect and courtesy many times on the A&A forum in the past, e.g. here. Trying to act all high and mighty by suggesting that it's only atheists that act in the ways you suggest isn't going solve any problems, only worsen them.

    So you've proven you can use the search function. Congratulations


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    #81
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SouthWesterly wrote: »
    So you've proven you can use the search function. Congratulations

    Is that your response? Or are you going to explain how you're not a hypocrite?


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    #82
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Is that your response? Or are you going to explain how you're not a hypocrite?

    I explained that to the mod in question. Case closed


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    #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SouthWesterly wrote: »
    I explained that to the mod in question. Case closed

    And why do you assume that the atheists who you believe are in the wrong in this forum haven't done likewise? And does explaining it mean that the various things that you said in that thread didn't break the charter? No. Also, I don't think you know what case closed means, you have provided me no evidence that suggests that you did what you say nor that it demonstrated that you were in the right.

    By the by, that is just one instance of many that I found from 30 seconds of searching of your not-so-courteous attitude on the A&A forum, as I'm sure you are aware. Perhaps taking a leaf of out of our book and acting courteous elsewhere on Boards might be a good idea before demanding that other people do likewise here.


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    #84
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Is that your response? Or are you going to explain how you're not a hypocrite?

    Mod warning: No personal insults please. Thanks for your attention.


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    #85
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And does explaining it mean that the various things that you said in that thread didn't break the charter?

    Mod: To all, if you see a post that breaks the charter, please report it saying how and where the charter has been broken. Please avoid engaging in-thread as this is as likely to land you in trouble as the poster you have an issue with. Where you do respond, please address the post rather than the poster wherever possible and make an effort to be courteous.

    If you see a post that you think breaks the charter but can't figure out how it breaks the charter, the chances are that it hasn't broken the charter and is not worth reporting. Mods will typically only take action on reported posts that are either in breach of the charter, which includes incivility, trolling, etc... as well as denigration of faith.

    As always, any positive feedback on how this forum can be improved is always welcome and will be actioned where appropriate and technically feasible.

    Thanks for your attention.


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    #86
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    SouthWesterly wrote: »
    Can't see the tags helping. Atheists showing common courtesy would but can't see that happening. After 10 years and 20,000 posts I've seen too much to believe that will happen.

    I'm seeing 7 months and slightly over a thousand posts in your current profile. Can I humbly ask that rather than saying why things won't work based on your extensive experience, you consider making a few suggestions to improve this forum such that they will work going forward.


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    #87
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    smacl wrote: »
    I'm seeing 7 months and slightly over a thousand posts in your current profile. Can I humbly ask that rather than saying why things won't work based on your extensive experience, you consider making a few suggestions to improve this forum such that they will work going forward.
    Glad to see new profiles are actually that


    It is as I said and has been shown from the above posts. A&A members it seems are quiet happy to break the charter here that they insist is kept on their own forum.

    Aristotle, I don't have to explain to you a conversation I had with a mod in PM. I'm glad there's an ignore button. Been a few years since I've had to use it.


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    #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SouthWesterly wrote: »
    It is as I said and has been shown from the above posts. A&A members it seems are quiet happy to break the charter here that they insist is kept on their own forum.

    And, as I've mentioned, you have broken the charter many times in the A&A forum. Unlike you, however, I am self aware enough to not request that people don't do likewise in my preferred forum as I am aware that some of my posts in this forum are not liked by all. Perhaps you should do likewise and leave the preaching to those who actually have a good standard on Boards.
    SouthWesterly wrote: »
    Aristotle, I don't have to explain to you a conversation I had with a mod in PM. I'm glad there's an ignore button. Been a few years since I've had to use it.

    Are you openly admitting to breaking Boards.ie rules and having multiple accounts? That's second time you've mentioned in a few posts that you've been here a few years. You're only allowed to set up a second account so that you can post anonymously in the Personal Issues forum etc.


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    #89
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    SouthWesterly wrote: »
    Glad to see new profiles are actually that


    It is as I said and has been shown from the above posts. A&A members it seems are quiet happy to break the charter here that they insist is kept on their own forum.

    Aristotle, I don't have to explain to you a conversation I had with a mod in PM. I'm glad there's an ignore button. Been a few years since I've had to use it.
    And, as I've mentioned, you have broken the charter many times in the A&A forum. Unlike you, however, I am self aware enough to not request that people don't do likewise in my preferred forum as I am aware that some of my posts in this forum are not liked by all. Perhaps you should do likewise and leave the preaching to those who actually have a good standard on Boards.

    Mod warning: This thread is for feedback on the Christianity forum only and is here with a view to improving this forum. It is not a platform to complain about other forums or their member's behaviour. Please stay on topic. Any more references to the A&A forum in this thread will be carded for off-topic soap-boxing. Thanks for your attention.


  • Options
    #90
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Are you openly admitting to breaking Boards.ie rules and having multiple accounts? That's second time you've mentioned in a few posts that you've been here a few years. You're only allowed to set up a second account so that you can post anonymously in the Personal Issues forum etc.

    Mod warning: Leave the moderation to the mods please. Back seat moderation is a breach of charter. Thanks for your attention.


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    #91
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    I was carded for expressing an opinion that I felt that Bannasidhe was trolling in the thread about vaccines. This is a personal opinion, but yet it counts as "back seat moderation".
    theological wrote: »
    How this isn't regarded as trolling is beyond me.

    I would personally disagree with the Inquisition for 2 reasons. Firstly, because this definitely isn't encouraged by the Christian gospel, and second because many people with similar convictions to mine were killed during it. So even if particular people in particular institutions may justify such behaviour, it's rather obvious that Christianity as it is revealed to us Scripturally doesn't. The insinuation that I am responsible some how for any of the things you mentioned by following Jesus is an absurdity.

    When I am referring to Biblical Christianity I'm referring to people this side of the cross who follow Jesus Christ. I'm happy to deal with the other questions about the OT, which I think are valid, but I don't want to take this thread off its original topic.

    Surely we should be encouraging people to keep to the topics of the threads that are created rather than posting irrelevant remarks that are intended to inflame?

    I think this is yet more evidence that there should be a Christian moderator on the Christianity forum.


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