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Saorview Connect

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    #62
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The DTG are hosting a HbbTV Symposium in London on the 8th & 9th December. Speakers include Freesat.

    It could be a opportune time to announce Saorview Connected.
    The HbbTV association and the DTG are pleased to announce the « 2015 HbbTV Symposium » to take place on December 8th and 9th at 30 Euston Square, in London.

    With a strong agenda of keynotes, lectures and debates focusing on the hottest topics in broadcast and broadband TV, like HbbTV 2.0, and the opportunity to network with more than 200 peers, the HbbTV Symposium is the most important gathering of decision makers in our Connected TV industry. It’s your opportunity to see what we’ve accomplished over the past year and to shape the future of the industry together.

    The Symposium will feature industry leaders from suppliers, operators and broadcasters who will review the latest developments and approaches to designing, building, and launching successful Hybrid Broadcast Broadband TV services.

    Speakers confirmed include; Arqiva, BBC Research & Development, Freeview New Zealand, RBB, Massive Interactive, Sofia Digital, Hybra.TV, IRT, HTTV, NPO, Digital UK, DVB, HD Forum, Verance, TP Vision, Freesat, Farncome, Eurofins and more...

    Attendees will develop broad Hybrid TV insights through their engagement with expert presentations and panels focusing on topics of interest to the broadcast and broadband TV eco-system. Offering the opportunity to network with more than 200 peers and gain key industry insight, this Symposium is the most important gathering of decision makers in the HbbTV industry.

    http://www.dtg.org.uk/dtg/hbbtv.html


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    #63
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    byte wrote: »
    I'm very dubious that Freesat will ever be part of a Saorview STB platform.

    What I do deem likely, is what you've said there, that Freesat are being asked/paid to make an EPG akin to the Freesat one for Saorview, specifically with a Freetime type roll-back EPG, for watching stuff already over.

    There will most likely be a FTA tuner in the box, but I'm doubtful it'll be Freesat...

    With Freesat involved in the development of the receiver it's likely there will be a Freesat epg, combined or separate and tailored is the question. If Saorview had decided to go with a terrestrial only receiver the new connected Freeview Play standard might have been an option (being D-Book based might have ruled it out though).


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    #64
    mackersdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭mackersdublin


    There are already 6 Saorview Approved Combi boxes on the market http://www.saorview.ie/product/saorview-combi-options/ so this news about talks with Freesat, mean Freesat's EPG will be included otherwise it's just another Combi box

    Hopefully these new boxes with have triple tuners


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    #65
    galtee boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    mackersdublin wrote: »
    There are already 6 Saorview Approved Combi boxes on the market http://www.saorview.ie/product/saorview-combi-options/ so this news about talks with Freesat, mean Freesat's EPG will be included otherwise it's just another Combi box

    Hopefully these new boxes with have triple tuners

    The hope is, it won't just be another combi box. The hope is that it will have all Irish and UK channels on one 7 day EPG with full series link capability on all channels. I'm open to correction, but I assume all those combo boxes listed on the Saorview website are " now and next" Epgs for satellite channels and also, they use two separate Epgs ?


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    #66
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    There's no way the various Irish broadcasters are gonna sit back and allow all the British Freesat channels to be on the Saorview EPG, unless many clashing rights cause these programmes to be blocked.

    If we are lucky, then maybe two EPG's side by side, like what is currently available, albeit both with 7 day EPG. I even have doubts that will happen.


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    #67
    danm14
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭danm14


    byte wrote: »
    There's no way the various Irish broadcasters are gonna sit back and allow all the British Freesat channels to be on the Saorview EPG, unless many clashing rights cause these programmes to be blocked.
    I very much doubt they will care.

    The Walker combo box has SatFree (which is for all intents and purposes Freesat, complete with 7 day EPG) and is still Saorview approved. The SatFree EPG on it even shows the Saorview logo. This new box will really be no different to this except presumably you won't have to press a button to switch from Satellite to Terrestrial.

    The other approved combo boxes have the Saorview and Satellite channels on one list, which usually shows the Saorview logo, the only difference will be that the new box will have a seven day EPG while these boxes have a Now and Next EPG.

    This new box won't make people watch the British channels any more than the existing approved combo boxes. In fact, as this box will presumably have the channels in fixed positions with the Irish channels first, it will encourage watching the British channels less, as the Irish channels will always be first in the list, the current boxes could be, and I'd say in very many houses are, organised to have BBC One, BBC Two, UTV, Channel 4, Channel 5 on 1-5 etc.


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    #68
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,292 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    The Cush wrote: »
    Saorview is in talks with Freesat to partner with them for its planned Saorview Connected service according to an article in today's Sunday Times.

    Details are to be announced before the end of the year with a planned launch next year. Freesat would design and develop the boxes.

    this would be brilliant

    would that mean Saorview content available in the UK?


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    #69
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    lawred2 wrote: »
    would that mean Saorview content available in the UK?
    No, Soarview will continue to be available via terrestrial transmitters only.


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    #70
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,292 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    The Cush wrote: »
    No, Soarview will continue to be available via terrestrial transmitters only.

    so a fancy combi box then


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    #71
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    lawred2 wrote: »
    so a fancy combi box then

    A Saorview/IPTV hybrid PVR/STB with Freesat included hopefully

    This is what RTÉ said about the planned Saorview Connected (then Saorview Anywhere) service back in 2013
    RTÉ will not be able to deliver SAORVIEW Anywhere on its own, and will need to work with a number of partners to deliver both the standalone broadband service and the hybrid set-top box. RTÉ will seek appropriate industry partners to deliver SAORVIEW Anywhere, to enable both the standalone broadband service and the hybrid set-top box.

    This from their Digital Priorities 2015-2016 document
    Saorview Connected is designed for the big screen and will offer a range of linear and on-demand content delivered over DTT and ‘Over the Top’ (OTT) via broadband. It will ensure that the free-to-air Saorview platform keeps pace in terms of functionality with Pay-TV services, and it will bring new free and pay VOD services from Irish and international content providers to Saorview homes.


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    #72
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    lawred2 wrote: »
    so a fancy combi box then

    A closed source version of a linux combo.


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    #73
    channelsurfer2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,596 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    Will it need Minsterial approval or has that already been given to allocate the extra funds for it?


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    #74
    bappelbe
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭bappelbe


    Is it just my wishful thinking but could BBC IPlayer content (or at least some of it) be mirrored by the RTE Player for the Republic of Ireland region so BBC don't have to pay for servers that serve non licence fee payers?

    That would give a Saorview and Freesat box a lot of appeal when competing with Sky and UPC


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    #75
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    TAFKAlawhec wrote: »
    The big problem ATM is that none of the BBC One regions are HD yet on satellite, and only a few ITV1 regions are on HD. Similarly there is no BBC Two version for NI, Scotland or Wales yet. The Sky EPG also has these problems regarding regions. Basically, you can't allocate what isn't there for now.
    If you use BT1 as post code on my Freesat box then 101 is BBC NI HD and 102 is BBC2 but only SD

    And
    972 BBC 1 HD
    973 BBC Scotland HD
    976 BBC Wales HD
    978 BBC 1 NI HD

    Other HD Channels
    107 BBC 3 HD
    108 BBC 4 HD
    109 BBC 2 HD
    119 UTV HD
    126 C4 HD
    200 BBC NEWS
    206 RT HD
    209 NHKWORLD
    600 CBBC HD
    601 Cbeebies HD

    Depending on the receiver you can add other regional ITV HD channels.

    Having Saorview and Freesat on one box would be nice.

    BUT if not done properly then there's no point. As others have pointed out there are already combo receivers out there. My Freesat box's remote control can already operate my Saorview TV. So I have no interest in anything klunky 'cos I can already do that :)


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    #76
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The Cush wrote: »
    The RTÉ tender to develop Saorview Connected was published last June

    https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=77656&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders
    http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:212195-2014:TEXT:EN:HTML

    Contract was awarded to Freesat last June,
    Section II: Object of the contract

    II.1.1) Title attributed to the contract
    14020 — Saorview Connected.

    II.1.4) Short description of the contract or purchase(s)
    RTE is seeking companies that can provide the technology specification for developing Saorview Connected that can work with DTT and specifically the DTT specification used in Ireland. RTE is looking for companies to possibly license the specification to manufacturers and to provide the necessary interface and platform management services to Saorview.


    Section V: Award of contract
    Contract No: 1 Lot No: 1 - Lot title: Saorview Connected

    V.1) Date of contract award decision: 30.6.2015

    V.2) Information about offers
    Number of offers received: 3

    V.3) Name and address of economic operator in favour of whom the contract award decision has been taken
    FreeSat (UK) Limited
    23-24 Newman St
    W1T 1PJ London
    UNITED KINGDOM

    V.4) Information on value of contract

    Initial estimated total value of the contract: Excluding VAT
    Total final value of the contract:
    Excluding VAT

    V.5) Information about subcontracting
    The contract is likely to be sub-contracted: no

    http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:251123-2015:TEXT:EN:HTML


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    #77
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The Saorview/Freesat proposal has been around for a while it seems, this quote is taken from an Oireachtas Committee discussion with RTÉ back in late Mar 2014, about 3 months before the Saorview Connected tender was published
    Mr. Noel Curran: ...
    I agree that more can be done and will be done with Saorview. We have not had the marketing budget and have been constrained financially in linking the Saorview platform with platforms like Freesat in any overt way such as through combination marketing. We believe that the combination of Saorview with some of those satellite services is a potent service, but we have been restricted in how overtly we can say that. However, we have plans in that regard. I have talked about Saorview being connected and we have other marketing plans. I accept the findings of the recent BAI report from Ono, but it highlighted that Saorview and FirstView homes were 160,000 and may reduce. I felt very strongly that they completely ignored the second television phenomenon. Having the Saorview platform in 700,000 homes, be it in regard to the first or second television, gives us a marketing tool that we need to expand on.

    http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/TRJ2014032600015


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    #78
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Freesat needs to rethink its LCNs. They have mixed SD and HD channels no matter which way you do it.

    They need a logical approach like that adopted by Saorview.
    RTE 1 HD LCN 1; RTE 1 +1 LCN 11
    RTE 2 HD LCN 2; RTE 1+1 LCN 12 (if it ever it arrives)

    So BBC 1 HD LCN 101 BBC 1 SD 151
    BBC 2 HD LCN 102 BBC 2 SD 152
    ITV HD LCN 103 ITV sd 153

    etc. etc.

    They should have made the sets place HD in the primary place if the receiver is HD enabled. At this stage they should assume HD is available on the majority of sets.

    However, it is not our system and we should be glad it is not geoblocked.


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    #79
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    The Cush wrote: »
    Contract was awarded to Freesat last June,

    Brilliant. Then they will be adapting their Huffman table like SDK to combine both. Its brilliant news for the ready to go box market and people who want a simplified approach.

    It should have been done ages ago. Didn't think Freesat would be in the market for this!
    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Freesat needs to rethink its LCNs. They have mixed SD and HD channels no matter which way you do it.

    They need a logical approach like that adopted by Saorview.
    RTE 1 HD LCN 1; RTE 1 +1 LCN 11
    RTE 2 HD LCN 2; RTE 1+1 LCN 12 (if it ever it arrives)

    So BBC 1 HD LCN 101 BBC 1 SD 151
    BBC 2 HD LCN 102 BBC 2 SD 152
    ITV HD LCN 103 ITV sd 153

    etc. etc.

    They should have made the sets place HD in the primary place if the receiver is HD enabled. At this stage they should assume HD is available on the majority of sets.

    However, it is not our system and we should be glad it is not geoblocked.

    At a guess these boxes will only drag in the HD channels by default. If you only have an SD TV, you use the scart which will downscale it anyhow.


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    #80
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The Cush wrote: »
    Saorview recently published a revised version of its Minimum Receiver Requirements, version 6.

    This adds a HbbTV requirement to the Saorview receiver specification from 1st January 2016.

    HbbTV v1.5 is required for all new Saorview receivers from 1st January 2016

    HbbTV v2.0 is the latest update to the specification, published by the ETSI last Thursday - https://www.hbbtv.org/news-events/etsi-releases-new-specification-for-hbbtv-2-0/

    HbbTV 2.0 Specification FAQ


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    #81
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Hibrasil wrote: »
    SAORVIEW will exhibit at this year’s Irish Satellite and Aerial Association show, to be held in City North Hotel Dublin on November 12th.

    Trade and public are welcome to come along and see the latest in installation technology for SAORVIEW and satellite systems. Come along and see how you can get Ireland’s favourite channels with SAORVIEW, and talk to expert installers and suppliers about your SAORVIEW options.

    City North Hotel is located at Junction 7 on the M1, and the sh0w is open between 10.00 and 17.30. :rolleyes:

    Question time.... I think???

    Did anyone who attended ask the question?


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    #82
    steveon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,905 ✭✭✭steveon


    The Cush wrote: »
    Did anyone who attended ask the question?

    I did ask and they refused to comment on it as they explained it was too early to talk about it due to it being at early stages

    Also wouldn't speculate on any new channels


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    #83
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Very interesting development.
    byte wrote: »
    There's no way the various Irish broadcasters are gonna sit back and allow all the British Freesat channels to be on the Saorview EPG, unless many clashing rights cause these programmes to be blocked.

    I have to disagree. What I see happening in the real world of my friends and family is that people are increasingly buying a Freesat DVR to go with their Saorview TV/STB, but then discovering that there is so much content on Freesat and the EPG and UI is so much better that they rarely switch back to Saorview any more.

    That is a dangerous situation for RTE and TV3's viewing figures.

    I think they realise that they can't stop people buying Freesat boxes, so they better join them instead and come up with their own combi Saorview/Freesat box
    with an integrated 7 day EPG, that puts their channels front and center at the top of the EPG.

    Along with the RTE Player, TV3 Player, etc. on such a box, it would give them very good visibility, while still giving people access to the UK channels, something most Irish people have always expected anyway.

    I don't really think any Irish channel would be against this, it is mostly to their favour, the issue that has blocked Freesat in the past is the Freesat company instead not allowing promotion of it's services outside the UK.
    icdg wrote: »
    It is worth noting again what Freesat actually is. It is nothing more than a common hardware design, a proprietary EPG, and a marketing brand name. It doesn't broadcast any channels and owns no satellites or transponder space. It is most definitely not a broadcaster, and isn't really a platform operator either.

    Why is all that important? Because it means that to the extent that anyone can "allow" Freesat to do or not do anything, it is its shareholders. Previously we knew that the BBC and ITV were not keen for Freesat to be marketed in Ireland - the whole Sat4free debacle is testimony to that! But it may be that they have changed their minds.

    Very good point. There really wasn't anything blocking Freesat operating in Ireland other then their shareholders wishes. With RTE now partnering with Freesat and actually giving them money to build a box and assuming a license for each box sold, then perhaps it is now in their financial interest to make it available in Ireland.

    Also with ITV purchasing ITV Ireland and UTV, I can see them dropping their previous objections and actually want to make their other channels (ITV2, 3, etc.) available in Ireland in the long term with ad opt-outs. ITV actually have some skin in the Irish TV game now.

    BBC probably don't largely care either way as long as it doesn't cost them anything.

    Fingers crossed this all comes to fruition, it may finally make Saorview relevant.


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    #84
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    bk wrote: »
    I have to disagree. What I see happening in the real world of my friends and family is that people are increasingly buying a Freesat DVR to go with their Saorview TV/STB, but then discovering that there is so much content on Freesat and the EPG and UI is so much better that they rarely switch back to Saorview any more.

    That is a dangerous situation for RTE and TV3's viewing figures.
    Well, I do hope I'm wrong.

    The situation you mention above is exactly what has happened here at my house, after cancelling Sky and getting a Humax HDR. Seldom watch the Saorview channels now, and can't record anything I'd be interested in watching (don't often watch stuff live on TV with the exception of sports).

    I'd also hope that maybe somebody other than Vestel will be making the hardware.


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    #85
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    So here is what they will be using.....

    http://www.metaphortv.com

    Tivùsat the italian operator where the first to pick it up, following freesat's announcement in September to release the connected TV guide as a solution.


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    #86
    galtee boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    STB. wrote: »
    So here is what they will be using.....

    http://www.metaphortv.com

    Tivùsat the italian operator where the first to pick it up, following freesat's announcement in September to release the connected TV guide as a solution

    So it looks like this new Saorview box will be an exact clone of a Freesat Freetime Pvr, such as the Humax Freetime box. That will be brilliant if and this is the big if, it includes the 200 approx channels that Freesat have. If it only has the 9 Saorview channels, who is going to pay probably north of €250 for a decent box such as a Humax ? Or will the box contract go to Walker again to make a cheap non reliable one ?


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    #87
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    galtee boy wrote: »
    So it looks like this new Saorview box will be an exact clone of a Freesat Freetime Pvr, such as the Humax Freetime box. That will be brilliant if and this is the big if, it includes the 200 approx channels that Freesat have. If it only has the 9 Saorview channels, who is going to pay probably north of €250 for a decent box such as a Humax ? Or will the box contract go to Walker again to make a cheap non reliable one ?

    Not necessarily Humax. Its TV Guide solution software twinned with Freesat's manufacturing partnerships with Humax, Panasonic, Vestel and Manhattan.

    Now Saorview have a history with Vestel.... I am guessing any manufacturing side would have to interested. Up til now Humax havent got involved in Ireland possibly because of the small market. A well developed an simplified product would of course replace Sky scenarios for a lot of people which is what a lot of people want, that do not understand linux solutions.


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    #88
    steveon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,905 ✭✭✭steveon


    STB. wrote: »
    Not necessarily Humax. Its TV Guide solution software twinned with Freesat's manufacturing partnerships with Humax, Panasonic, Vestel and Manhattan.

    Now Saorview have a history with Vestel.... I am guessing any manufacturing side would have to interested. Up til now Humax havent got involved in Ireland possibly because of the small market. A well developed an simplified product would of course replace Sky scenarios for a lot of people which is what a lot of people want, that do not understand linux solutions.

    Have to agree would be great if Humax and Manhattan would now see Ireland as a possbile extension to their great lineup of products.


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    #89
    Hibrasil
    Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭Hibrasil


    SAORVIEW Information Channel has changed - it now shows videos on setting up Saorview & Saorview Combi STBs.

    The SAORVIEW Website also has changed and now includes a reference to SAORVIEW PLUS with the following information:-

    "Saorview Plus

    Never miss an episode!

    Missing your favourite shows? Saorview Plus could be just the ticket. This neat box features Series Link which allows you to record your favourite series and store them for later viewing. It also features the ability to pause and rewind live TV, and to record one channel while watching another. How great is that?"

    From January Saorview Users can register for a SAORVIEW ID!!

    Is this an indication of things to come! and what significance can be attached to changes (i.e. not just cosmetic)

    Is it going to be a Happy New Year???


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    #90
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,382 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    On Freesat when you have something set to record and for some reason the tv station delays or reschedules the show the box will in almost all cases automatically adjust to the new time setting, I don't think this happens on Saorview or at least didn't. Where would the problem be, does RTÉ/TG4/TV3 need to provide the change to Saorview or are they supplying the information to Saorview and they don't have the staff to make the change? They need to sort this out before offering fancy new boxes which will only generate complaints for them. Remote record would also be great.


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    #91
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Hibrasil wrote: »
    SAORVIEW Information Channel has changed - it now shows videos on setting up Saorview & Saorview Combi STBs.

    The SAORVIEW Website also has changed and now includes a reference to SAORVIEW PLUS with the following information:-

    Launched about 2 weeks ago, thread here

    https://twitter.com/SAORVIEW/status/676740628185800704


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