NEW 2020 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

whampiri · 20-04-2020 2:10pm

Nothing stopping you from starting now. The more practice, the better.

lucat · 20-04-2020 4:03pm

whampiri wrote: »

Nothing stopping you from starting now. The more practice, the better.

No I'm not able to practice daily for potentially weeks. Need to manage my time.

Cheeseplant · 20-04-2020 9:32pm

lucat wrote: »

No I'm not able to practice daily for potentially weeks. Need to manage my time.

I also wouldn't have the material to practice more than a few times. Never done the AP exams. Can anyone say if there is much difference between them and HEO/AO? Are we likely to see Top Connectix and Evergreen again??

BMHOPE · 20-04-2020 11:33pm

Very similar, esp maths but English for verbal analysis more complex, negative phrasing etc. throws you as difficult to skim read and usually more tabs, might be marketing and locations for eg. With similar info. But confuses you on which tab info is in.

bonerjams03 · 21-04-2020 2:35pm

What would the application numbers be like?

I'm not trying to do a top x% of y calculation, just curious to see how many people could have applied.

Caip79 · 21-04-2020 2:43pm

if anyone can recommend any practice websites i’d be grateful

Gadgetman99 · 21-04-2020 2:47pm

bonerjams03 wrote: »

What would the application numbers be like?

I'm not trying to do a top x% of y calculation, just curious to see how many people could have applied.

It's a well paid Senior Management position it's safe to assume thousands and possibly more due to those out of work or at risk of losing their jobs due to Covid. The extended deadline would have helped increase the numbers too.

In the end it's just a guesstimate but alot.

Cheeseplant · 21-04-2020 5:24pm

Gadgetman99 wrote: »

It's a well paid Senior Management position it's safe to assume thousands and possibly more due to those out of work or at risk of losing their jobs due to Covid. The extended deadline would have helped increase the numbers too.

In the end it's just a guesstimate but alot.

But would there? It was advertised on 6th March before any restrictions or major job losses. Perhaps it slipped under the radar for some. I know several people in my Dept weren't bothered applying as an internal comp was expected and the thoughts of the online interviews turned them off. Also many i spoke to didn't think anyone would be taken on the panel so that was another reason they weren't ar**d.

It might be (reasonably) well paid, but it's not as well paid as private sectors jobs with similar levels of responsibility. I know responsibility is very dependent on Dept/Division etc but in the main.

Gadgetman99 · 21-04-2020 7:59pm

Cheeseplant wrote: »

But would there? It was advertised on 6th March before any restrictions or major job losses. Perhaps it slipped under the radar for some. I know several people in my Dept weren't bothered applying as an internal comp was expected and the thoughts of the online interviews turned them off. Also many i spoke to didn't think anyone would be taken on the panel so that was another reason they weren't ar**d.

It might be (reasonably) well paid, but it's not as well paid as private sectors jobs with similar levels of responsibility. I know responsibility is very dependent on Dept/Division etc but in the main.

I know in my department every AO and HEO I've spoken to has applied for it. The AO programme on 30 ish thousand had over a thousand applicants between all the streams. The AP salary is over double an AO salary.

As much as I wish there wasn't there has to be a lot of applicants.

dee75 · 21-04-2020 8:16pm

From recollection, the 2016 AP competition had just over 3,000 applications. No clue how many applied for the 2018 comp.

Brera · 21-04-2020 8:19pm

Gadgetman99 wrote: »

I know in my department every AO and HEO I've spoken to has applied for it. The AO programme on 30 ish thousand had over a thousand applicants between all the streams. The AP salary is over double an AO salary.

As much as I wish there wasn't there has to be a lot of applicants.

I wonder would most have them have applied for the interdepartmental stream or would they have applied for both streams.

Gadgetman99 · 21-04-2020 9:32pm

Brera wrote: »

I wonder would most have them have applied for the interdepartmental stream or would they have applied for both streams.

Three streams if they are eligible, internal, inter dep and open. Three chances

Caranica · 21-04-2020 9:48pm

I wasn't able to apply in the end as my laptop does not use Windows/Mac operating systems so was not able to access the dynamic pdf application form. I have Adobe Acrobat but the form would not open.

Couldn't get through to PAS on the phone. I enlisted the help of friends with the operating systems needed but they weren't able to get it for me as an editable pdf.

At a time when libraries and internet cafes etc are closed, the process was discriminatory and unfair.

Gadgetman99 · 21-04-2020 9:54pm

Caranica wrote: »

I wasn't able to apply in the end as my laptop does not use Windows/Mac operating systems so was not able to access the dynamic pdf application form. I have Adobe Acrobat but the form would not open.

Couldn't get through to PAS on the phone. I enlisted the help of friends with the operating systems needed but they weren't able to get it for me as an editable pdf.

At a time when libraries and internet cafes etc are closed, the process was discriminatory and unfair.

I completely sympathise with you, they've been using the dynamic pdf for at least 2\3 years tho only going by my own experience. Have you never applied to other competitions before that had the dynamic pdf?

Cheeseplant · 22-04-2020 9:26am

Gadgetman99 wrote: »

I know in my department every AO and HEO I've spoken to has applied for it. The AO programme on 30 ish thousand had over a thousand applicants between all the streams. The AP salary is over double an AO salary.

As much as I wish there wasn't there has to be a lot of applicants.

Really? My my dept must be more lazy and pessimistic

I understand the AO applicants, 30K is decent enough for a graduate job IMO, although I know lots of applicants wouldn't be recent graduates- I applied myself as a way out of my current stream.
I'm still hoping for a few thousand.. and that the internal competition is advertised (it was in preparation so there is a chance, albeit small).

Brera · 22-04-2020 9:52am

Cheeseplant wrote: »

Really? My my dept must be more lazy and pessimistic
I understand the AO applicants, 30K is decent enough for a graduate job IMO, although I know lots of applicants wouldn't be recent graduates- I applied myself as a way out of my current stream.
I'm still hoping for a few thousand.. and that the internal competition is advertised (it was in preparation so there is a chance, albeit small).

30K is definitely decent enough for a graduate job starting out especially when you factor in the civil service perks like flexi-leave etc

gmisk · 22-04-2020 12:50pm

Cheeseplant wrote: »

Really? My my dept must be more lazy and pessimistic
I understand the AO applicants, 30K is decent enough for a graduate job IMO, although I know lots of applicants wouldn't be recent graduates- I applied myself as a way out of my current stream.
I'm still hoping for a few thousand.. and that the internal competition is advertised (it was in preparation so there is a chance, albeit small).

I thought the AO scale started at 43?
AP the normal scale starts at 67ish.

I would expect a large number of applicants they had pretty huge numbers for the last AP comp.
I have been in AP role for about 6 months, the whole not clocking in and out is a bit of a revelation! Doing a PMDs with a person is probably the worst part of the role.

I would also say I think there could be a moratorium on hiring en route pretty soon.

James2020App · 22-04-2020 1:06pm

Caip79 wrote: »

if anyone can recommend any practice websites i’d be grateful

Does anyone know of anywhere that similar tests can be done online, in order to improve for the upcoming tests?

Ravelleman · 22-04-2020 1:10pm

gmisk wrote: »

I thought the AO scale started at 43?

That's the elusive AO Higher pay scale.

Due to the pay restorations that allow you to skip increments four and seven, those that do end up on the AO Higher pay scale actually start at increment two, which is €48,484. If eligible via seniority, this occurs after four full years in the job, so I would imagine that relatively few ever see it.

It feels intensely bureaucratic to talk about Civil Service pay scales in such detail.

SFC1895 · 22-04-2020 1:11pm

gmisk wrote: »

I thought the AO scale started at 43?
AP the normal scale starts at 67ish.

I would expect a large number of applicants they had pretty huge numbers for the last AP comp.
I have been in AP role for about 6 months, the whole not clocking in and out is a bit of a revelation! Doing a PMDs with a person is probably the worst part of the role.

I would also say I think there could be a moratorium on hiring en route pretty soon.

The starting salary for a new AO is €32,405. Massive jump- and incentive- for AOs.

Like yourself, have been an AP 6 months or so- enjoying the not clocking in! Didn't think PMDS was too bad although I only have 3 direct reports.

Cheeseplant · 23-04-2020 9:12am

SFC1895 wrote: »

The starting salary for a new AO is €32,405. Massive jump- and incentive- for AOs.

Like yourself, have been an AP 6 months or so- enjoying the not clocking in! Didn't think PMDS was too bad although I only have 3 direct reports.

Did you not have PMDS reports in your last role? I have 4 currently. PMDS is fine in my experience, but there's always one who makes it more trying than it has it has to be :rolleyes: I've never been on flexi, not in admin stream, but I know that not all HEOs in our place are on flexi. Seems to be role dependant. Wouldn't fancy it myself.

Cheeseplant · 23-04-2020 9:19am

gmisk wrote: »

I thought the AO scale started at 43?
AP the normal scale starts at 67ish.

I would expect a large number of applicants they had pretty huge numbers for the last AP comp.
I have been in AP role for about 6 months, the whole not clocking in and out is a bit of a revelation! Doing a PMDs with a person is probably the worst part of the role.

I would also say I think there could be a moratorium on hiring en route pretty soon.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a moratorium. Would expect PAS might run this competition slowly, panel people and extend the panel beyond the current expiry date (March 22?). Kicking myself for not apply to the last few AP comps and getting the first few fails out of the way!

SFC1895 · 23-04-2020 9:23am

Cheeseplant wrote: »

Did you not have PMDS reports in your last role? I have 4 currently. PMDS is fine in my experience, but there's always one who makes it more trying than it has it has to be :rolleyes: I've never been on flexi, not in admin stream, but I know that not all HEOs in our place are on flexi. Seems to be role dependant. Wouldn't fancy it myself.

As an AO in a Policy area, I only had small number of direct reports- one or two max at a time. PMDS in my new area is fine as the metrics and goals are more tangible.

I find not being on the flexi clock liberating in a sense.

Cheeseplant · 23-04-2020 10:20am

SFC1895 wrote: »

As an AO in a Policy area, I only had small number of direct reports- one or two max at a time. PMDS in my new area is fine as the metrics and goals are more tangible.

I find not being on the flexi clock liberating in a sense.

Didn't realise AOs had flexi either. I was on it once in private sector many years ago. Can't say it's something I'd like to go back to. It's grand if you can work up time, not so useful if you have time obligations outside of work.

Caranica · 23-04-2020 2:05pm

Gadgetman99 wrote: »

I completely sympathise with you, they've been using the dynamic pdf for at least 2\3 years tho only going by my own experience. Have you never applied to other competitions before that had the dynamic pdf?

Once before but had a Windows PC at work. Operating off a Chromebook at home these days.

Gadgetman99 · 23-04-2020 3:34pm

Caranica wrote: »

Once before but had a Windows PC at work. Operating off a Chromebook at home these days.

That definitely sucks, I had the same issue with my chrome book applying for a civil service role years ago I had to run around looking for an internet cafe I was on holidays at the time I never made that mistake again!

I hope you get to apply to other competitions as they come up to make up for not applying to this one. There's EO, AO and the odd HEO and AP competition advertised throughout the year for specific departments throughout the year so keep an eye on the Public Jobs website.

Gadgetman99 · 23-04-2020 3:37pm

Cheeseplant wrote: »

Really? My my dept must be more lazy and pessimistic
I understand the AO applicants, 30K is decent enough for a graduate job IMO, although I know lots of applicants wouldn't be recent graduates- I applied myself as a way out of my current stream.
I'm still hoping for a few thousand.. and that the internal competition is advertised (it was in preparation so there is a chance, albeit small).

It's really bad timing but I'm not eligible for my intern or interdep competitions I'm raging as you said before there's a good chance of a moratorium.

kilburn · 23-04-2020 3:48pm

Stupid question sorry PMDS ?

Ap2020 · 23-04-2020 5:15pm

kilburn wrote: »

Stupid question sorry PMDS ?

Performance Management and Development System. Essentially the performance and goal management system within the Civil Service (and parts of the public service). At the beginning of the year everyone sets their goals, with measurable KPIs, for the year - these also include learning and development goals. These are then monitored and everyone is rated (satisfactory or unsatisfactory) against them at mid-year and end-of-year.

Implementation of this system is excellent in some places, an afterthought in some others.

Cheeseplant · 23-04-2020 5:47pm

Gadgetman99 wrote: »

It's really bad timing but I'm not eligible for my intern or interdep competitions I'm raging as you said before there's a good chance of a moratorium.

I know, it's bad timing for you and probably many in your position. Keep your fingers crossed for the open. My own open panel in early 2009 was suspended due to moratorium and they started taking people from it kid 2010 up to 2012. All is not lost! We just have to get on it first!

Forthebuzz · 24-04-2020 7:27pm

Wonder will we get any update next week on possible stage 1 dates?

Adman13 · 24-04-2020 10:50pm

Hi all, good to find this thread. I saw this competition close to the deadline and applied for the Irish stream. Is it that a certain percentage of all the jobs must be filled by people with Irish - so you're applying to all the same jobs as everyone else? Or are you confined to jobs in a separate specific stream?

mariagirl · 26-04-2020 1:01pm

Hi, Ive applied for the AP 2020.. This is the first time I have applied dor AP...just wondering can anyone who applied in 2018 remember the name of the test provider for the aptitude tests and if the use of a calculator was permitted during the numerical reasoning tests. Im going to practice a few tests!

dee75 · 26-04-2020 1:21pm

mariagirl wrote: »

Hi, Ive applied for the AP 2020.. This is the first time I have applied dor AP...just wondering can anyone who applied in 2018 remember the name of the test provider for the aptitude tests and if the use of a calculator was permitted during the numerical reasoning tests. Im going to practice a few tests!

Can't remember the name of the test provider, but you can definitely use a calculator

Bob Cratchit · 26-04-2020 1:30pm

dee75 wrote: »

Can't remember the name of the test provider, but you can definitely use a calculator

I think it was SHL

prettyboy81 · 26-04-2020 8:33pm

Yes, SHL.

lucat · 28-04-2020 12:29pm

Adman13 wrote: »

Hi all, good to find this thread. I saw this competition close to the deadline and applied for the Irish stream. Is it that a certain percentage of all the jobs must be filled by people with Irish - so you're applying to all the same jobs as everyone else? Or are you confined to jobs in a separate specific stream?

They're all separate streams.

Cheeseplant · 28-04-2020 4:54pm

Forthebuzz wrote: »

Wonder will we get any update next week on possible stage 1 dates?

I hope so.. I feel like it would be wise to use this time to prepare but yet can't seem to get into it. Of course, I'll be kicking myself when they issue the preparatory material and date for assessment!

Forthebuzz · 05-05-2020 8:48pm

Friend who is also in the comp emailed to see if there was any update on stage one and got the following response

"The competition will proceed, however due to the Covid 19 crisis, dates for Stage 1 of the selection process have not been finalised"

ammg · 08-05-2020 3:28pm

Just got a message from Revenue re AP Tax Specialist - online assessment to be completed by May 18th

Forthebuzz · 08-05-2020 10:55pm

ammg wrote: »

Just got a message from Revenue re AP Tax Specialist - online assessment to be completed by May 18th

Was closing date for that much earlier than general AP?

ammg · 09-05-2020 4:41am

Forthebuzz wrote: »

Was closing date for that much earlier than general AP?

2nd April

BMHOPE · 09-05-2020 11:13am

I think 10 days, they were both extended with the lockdown, but the PAS was a later date. Completely different application forms, as I was hoping to copy and paste, but it was not possible.

ammg · 09-05-2020 12:55pm

BMHOPE wrote: »

I think 10 days, they were both extended with the lockdown, but the PAS was a later date. Completely different application forms, as I was hoping to copy and paste, but it was not possible.

Did you apply?

BMHOPE · 09-05-2020 10:44pm

Applied for both, sure might as well, have to practice apptitude tests over next few days. Does not look like current panel will move in regions, so will keep trying till I get there eventually. Unless there is a moratorium after this. Just hopefully we stop losing lives to it and the country and it's people gets a chance to recover.

Cheeseplant · 11-05-2020 8:59am

BMHOPE wrote: »

Applied for both, sure might as well, have to practice apptitude tests over next few days. Does not look like current panel will move in regions, so will keep trying till I get there eventually. Unless there is a moratorium after this. Just hopefully we stop losing lives to it and the country and it's people gets a chance to recover.

There have been plenty if whispers about this in our Dept. Snr Management expecting it. Hopefully not.. although it's unlikely anything would happen until after Gov formation. Likewise for any pay implications

caviardreams · 11-05-2020 9:09am

Cheeseplant wrote: »

There have been plenty if whispers about this in our Dept. Snr Management expecting it. Hopefully not.. although it's unlikely anything would happen until after Gov formation. Likewise for any pay implications

I wonder if the 2% public sector pay increase on 1st October will now be scrapped?

Cheeseplant · 11-05-2020 9:15am

caviardreams wrote: »

I wonder if the 2% public sector pay increase on 1st October will now be scrapped?

Might come in as pay talks won't have started. the latest pay deal is up to the end of this year AFAIK. My union rep said no further pay talks will happen until new gov is formed. Guess the 2% might come and then taken away in the next round of pay talks?? Really can't see us getting and keeping it in the current circumstances, and honestly, I wouldn't feel good about it either.

Connected99 · 12-05-2020 3:06pm

I am curious to know would most of you be HEO grade applying for this competition?
and are EO grades also applying?
Thanks!!

Brera · 12-05-2020 3:22pm

Cheeseplant wrote: »

Might come in as pay talks won't have started. the latest pay deal is up to the end of this year AFAIK. My union rep said no further pay talks will happen until new gov is formed. Guess the 2% might come and then taken away in the next round of pay talks?? Really can't see us getting and keeping it in the current circumstances, and honestly, I wouldn't feel good about it either.

There was something in the paper about this last week. Talk of carrying out a review and that the pay increase couldn’t really go ahead. There was a quote from Fianna Fáil saying that there shouldn’t be any cut and the pay increase could possibly go ahead as we’re frontline workers etc. So it will be interesting to see how this plays out. My guess is nothing will happen for a few months until a new government is formed.

There a lot of people planning to retire who had been waiting for the increase so they may hold out now. The longer they stay the less places becomes available for the rest of us - lol

NEW 2020 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

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