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Is it time to lift the beef pickets?

13»

Comments

  • #102
    kk.man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,616 ✭✭✭kk.man


    Yes but not yet
    Robson99 wrote: »
    What is the story now with regard to the couple of factories being picketed.???
    Don't see the point in only protesting outside a few...
    I'm pretty sure those now protesting have no cattle to kill and are just ****ing things up on those that have
    Blood and stones come to mind at this stage.


  • #103
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Cattle went into factory in Bandon yesterday for a kill on Monday.


  • #104
    Cavanjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭Cavanjack


    Yes but not yet
    Water John wrote: »
    Cattle went into factory in Bandon yesterday for a kill on Monday.

    Cattle killed now won’t get the extra bonuses will they not until the last of the pickets are gone?


  • #105
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Suspect their feedlot, their on a different price anyway.


  • #106
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,345 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    What’s the story on this?




    https://youtu.be/pVG2XFrl-LE


  • #107
    Good loser
    Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Good loser


    Gawddawggonnit wrote: »
    What’s the story on this?




    https://youtu.be/pVG2XFrl-LE


    Hot stuff.
    Haranguing question after question.



    Plenty of 'I want to know'. But no interest in answers. One track minds.


  • #108
    jaymla627
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,768 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Gawddawggonnit wrote: »
    What’s the story on this?




    https://youtu.be/pVG2XFrl-LE

    Sounds like a farmer/farmers where supplying sheds, a factory was bankrolling the rest cattle/feed etc and their was a bit of messing around the vat ( reads like the vat was been payed to farmer on finished animals that where actually the factories who where probably getting it back of farmer) which would be illegal if I’m not mistaken


  • #109
    amacca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,107 ✭✭✭amacca


    Good loser wrote: »
    Hot stuff.
    Haranguing question after question.



    Plenty of 'I want to know'. But no interest in answers. One track minds.

    I don't know ...that FG errand boy had a one track mind too......whats going to happen all them cattle when the weather turns ad nauseum.....perhaps its out of context but I didn't find much to admire in his "performance"

    I notice he wouldn't engage whatsoever on

    feedlots distorting trade....unfair advantage due to vat

    offal trade acting as a nice little valve for processors to control trade

    irony of keeping 30 month limit despite climate targets etc etc

    conflicts of interests with political class etc seemingly screwing the primary producer

    .......it seems like the only way to have a hope with sleeveens l is to sow it into them repeatedly into a public a forum as possible.....no point in having a reasoned debate when the other side refuses to address points and instead uses subtle threats...make a good point fairly and its merely brushed under the carpet while the same boyos stay on the gravy train year after year


  • #110
    Nobbies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 351 ✭✭Nobbies


    Gawddawggonnit wrote: »
    What’s the story on this?




    https://youtu.be/pVG2XFrl-LE

    That's alo mohan if i,m not mistaken. Chicken famer in the past i believe. Was prominent in the i.f.a some years back i think?remember reading about vat irregularities some years back in chicken farming. full extent i dont know.


  • #111
    Bigbird1
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Bigbird1


    Yes but not yet
    Any word of factorys back killing tomorrow or any time this week now that the protests are over?


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  • #112
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Some posters think we shouldn't be showing up this VAT issue!!!
    This is brewing since 2016 when it was noted to the Irish by the EU. But nothing was done about. Wonder how the rest of us would do if we had a VAT issue?

    I think all factory pickets have now stood down.


  • #113
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    I always smile when i hear lads bitching about feedlots. Never once did i hear a fella in a mart saying they weren't accepting bids from a factory feed lot.


  • #114
    Base price
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,354 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Yes but not yet
    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/final-beef-protests-officially-stand-down-tonight/


  • #115
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Might not be happy with it but Liffey Meats seems to have guaranteed price of
    €3.50 for steers and €3.60 for heifers for six weeks. Better than the €3.20 it seemed to be heading for a few weeks ago.


  • #116
    memorystick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭memorystick


    Water John wrote: »
    Might not be happy with it but Liffey Meats seems to have guaranteed price of
    €3.50 for steers and €3.60 for heifers for six weeks. Better than the €3.20 it seemed to be heading for a few weeks ago.

    So the pickets were a success. Well done to everyone who picketed and shame on the snakes who watched from beneath their stones!


  • #117
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Water John wrote: »
    Might not be happy with it but Liffey Meats seems to have guaranteed price of
    €3.50 for steers and €3.60 for heifers for six weeks. Better than the €3.20 it seemed to be heading for a few weeks ago.

    Surely a sensible result.
    Six weeks is as much as could be expected, even though Brexit is unlikely it’s still an issue to be weary off for all businesses.

    Know of lads been holding cattle that they need the cash back on badly, this will be a relief for many.


  • #118
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Liffey Meats I think supply Lidl and both come out of this a little better than the rest. It should be remembered.


  • #119
    Gael23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,123 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Has killing resumed at most factories today?


  • #120
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,974 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    There was a lot of nativity on both sides. However by far the biggest nativity was on the processor and large finisher side. Loads of so called experts have been proven wrong.
    While some of Beefplans thinking was not realistic mainly there price talking of 4.5/kg. Processor and large finisher's have created a mess for themselves.

    For processors a light has been shone on there businesses that will be hard to turn off. 30 month limit and predatory pricing on certain animal types mainly bulls will put pressure on them to change these tactics.

    Another issue for them is VAT on there own feedlots and larger finisher's killing over 1k cattle / year. If we assume that these finisher's kill over 100k/year if the law changes it will cost them 5-7 million euros and that is at present prices when prices rise you can add another million to that.

    Generic producer groups have been approved and thus will force up prices and facilitate forward pricing especially for winter and early summer cattle. And Wrangler I know according to you they existed already but these are a totally different beast to your idea of a PG. As well we may see the HR and AA PG's able to negotiate national base prices

    Processors as well face the problem that Courts and the law is not an option to stop/manage these strikes/protests. Farmers will not be reluctant to go again and from now on will insist on negotiation while pickets are in place. As well contrary to some experts here chill room's only stay full for so long. I was sick of telling lads that meat can only stay in a chill room for 3-4 weeks max after that there is only a week on the supermarket shelf. As well you cannot replace 30k + of cattle with Polish it any other beef and processing space is also an issue.

    The new Beef Forum will be more farmer friendly and will side more with farmers than if processor's had behaved after the first part of the protest. The Government will not want a rehash of this during an election next year and the sword of VAT and maybe labour rules may be held over the processor's.

    While no side can claim an outright victory the farmers have changed the rules of the game.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • #121
    manjou
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭manjou


    also having been at liffy a good bit seen alot more of beef industry than realised. There isent as much of a oversupply as people think or being told it did not take many days of no killing to empty stocks and if farmers had banded together better an stoped kill altoghter a week would have been alot. they can pay more but they cannot. there is a huge elephant in room controlling all with rendering plants. 3.75 was on offer last Monday till the factories were told if you pay that your offal will not be processed so that will have to be addressed . but I think alot was achieved and some good came out of it.


  • #122
    wrangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Yes but not yet
    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    There was a lot of nativity on both sides. However by far the biggest nativity was on the processor and large finisher side. Loads of so called experts have been proven wrong.
    While some of Beefplans thinking was not realistic mainly there price talking of 4.5/kg. Processor and large finisher's have created a mess for themselves.

    For processors a light has been shone on there businesses that will be hard to turn off. 30 month limit and predatory pricing on certain animal types mainly bulls will put pressure on them to change these tactics.

    Another issue for them is VAT on there own feedlots and larger finisher's killing over 1k cattle / year. If we assume that these finisher's kill over 100k/year if the law changes it will cost them 5-7 million euros and that is at present prices when prices rise you can add another million to that.

    Generic producer groups have been approved and thus will force up prices and facilitate forward pricing especially for winter and early summer cattle. And Wrangler I know according to you they existed already but these are a totally different beast to your idea of a PG. As well we may see the HR and AA PG's able to negotiate national base prices

    Processors as well face the problem that Courts and the law is not an option to stop/manage these strikes/protests. Farmers will not be reluctant to go again and from now on will insist on negotiation while pickets are in place. As well contrary to some experts here chill room's only stay full for so long. I was sick of telling lads that meat can only stay in a chill room for 3-4 weeks max after that there is only a week on the supermarket shelf. As well you cannot replace 30k + of cattle with Polish it any other beef and processing space is also an issue.

    The new Beef Forum will be more farmer friendly and will side more with farmers than if processor's had behaved after the first part of the protest. The Government will not want a rehash of this during an election next year and the sword of VAT and maybe labour rules may be held over the processor's.

    While no side can claim an outright victory the farmers have changed the rules of the game.

    Our group is going well now due mainly to the ability of our suppliers to supply the majority of the lambs inspec , What future have beef producer groups when they even whinge about becoming QA......... becoming QA is not an onerous ask compared with the effort to be a proper producer group


  • #123
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,974 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    wrangler wrote: »


    Our group is going well now due mainly to the ability of our suppliers to supply the majority of the lambs inspec , What future have beef producer groups when they even whinge about becoming QA......... becoming QA is not an onerous ask compared with the effort to be a proper producer group

    Where the issue arose with QA was that over the last five years the grading got harder. This drove a lot of cattle outside QA spec and cattle were penalised as well. Processor wanted lighter carcasses but then the grading of these cattle penalised them. A bullock or heifer that graded O=/O+ at 400+DW was not a P or O- at 330DW. It was immaterial to processor's what the grade was as they were putting them on trays for the retailer's.

    As well as that Cows and Bulls that there was no bonus for were penalised as well if not QA and that was if they would slaughter them. Less than 20% of cattle slaughtered qualified for QA.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #124
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    Yes but not yet
    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Where the issue arose with QA was that over the last five years the grading got harder. This drove a lot of cattle outside QA spec and cattle were penalised as well. Processor wanted lighter carcasses but then the grading of these cattle penalised them. A bullock or heifer that graded O=/O+ at 400+DW was not a P or O- at 330DW. It was immaterial to processor's what the grade was as they were putting them on trays for the retailer's.

    As well as that Cows and Bulls that there was no bonus for were penalised as well if not QA and that was if they would slaughter them. Less than 20% of cattle slaughtered qualified for QA.

    Where does the less than 20% figure come from out of interest?


  • #125
    kk.man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,616 ✭✭✭kk.man


    Yes but not yet
    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    There was a lot of nativity on both sides. However by far the biggest nativity was on the processor and large finisher side. Loads of so called experts have been proven wrong.
    While some of Beefplans thinking was not realistic mainly there price talking of 4.5/kg. Processor and large finisher's have created a mess for themselves.

    For processors a light has been shone on there businesses that will be hard to turn off. 30 month limit and predatory pricing on certain animal types mainly bulls will put pressure on them to change these tactics.

    Another issue for them is VAT on there own feedlots and larger finisher's killing over 1k cattle / year. If we assume that these finisher's kill over 100k/year if the law changes it will cost them 5-7 million euros and that is at present prices when prices rise you can add another million to that.

    Generic producer groups have been approved and thus will force up prices and facilitate forward pricing especially for winter and early summer cattle. And Wrangler I know according to you they existed already but these are a totally different beast to your idea of a PG. As well we may see the HR and AA PG's able to negotiate national base prices

    Processors as well face the problem that Courts and the law is not an option to stop/manage these strikes/protests. Farmers will not be reluctant to go again and from now on will insist on negotiation while pickets are in place. As well contrary to some experts here chill room's only stay full for so long. I was sick of telling lads that meat can only stay in a chill room for 3-4 weeks max after that there is only a week on the supermarket shelf. As well you cannot replace 30k + of cattle with Polish it any other beef and processing space is also an issue.

    The new Beef Forum will be more farmer friendly and will side more with farmers than if processor's had behaved after the first part of the protest. The Government will not want a rehash of this during an election next year and the sword of VAT and maybe labour rules may be held over the processor's.

    While no side can claim an outright victory the farmers have changed the rules of the game.
    Great post.

    I said it before had Mll threw a few crumbs to the farmer at the beginning instead of the 'Ulster Unionist' no ...to everything they might have got away with a few days protest. The missed judged the farmer anger. One procurement manager said to me the IFA only stayed a few days and we got an agreement. I was quick to tell them you tried to walk on the IFAs grave by withdrawing their subs when they were down.

    I do agree that this strike is a watershed moment by turning a light on. This new beef advisory group better not be a beef forum mark two or else these guys will be back on the gates.


  • #126
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    I can't figure out why lads are so anxious to stay in the beef game.factories screwing them, bord bia screwing them,politicians screwing them,media screwing them,climate change screwing them,supermarkets screwing them,revenue screwing them,other farmers screwing them.and the other s##t that goes wrong in farming as well.why would you bother


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  • #127
    kk.man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,616 ✭✭✭kk.man


    Yes but not yet
    Looks like Liffey has broke from the crowd...the Mll must be ragging. I have never saw a divide like that before.


  • #128
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    What would you suggest? This is the farming most of them know and there aren't many other options out there, especially for poorer land.
    Below cost is just, not on. The milk processors are now looking at the same trick. Even though market improved their still dropping the price.
    The other problem is, even if the suckler herd is dramatically downsized, which looks likely, a lot of the calves coming off the dairy herd are not suitable for beef, despite Teagasc nonsense.
    If the calves from the dairy herd were suitable, it would be a fix.

    KK Man, that was my original game plan and hope, that one or two players would agree. They did float €3.75 but were quickly shot down. The offal issue must be first item on the agenda.


  • #129
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    After all the protest, did the beef farmers get anything? I stopped following a while back?


  • #130
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    Yes but not yet
    kk.man wrote: »
    Looks like Liffey has broke from the crowd...the Mll must be ragging. I have never saw a divide like that before.

    This will have been the greatest achievement , divide them and create genuine competition .


  • #131
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Yes, stopped the race down to €3.20.
    No organisation who claim to represent farmers will sign off on a deal without genuine farmer consultation.
    A light has been shone on this industry and the stranglehold one person has on it, facilitated by Govn't.


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  • #132
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    Yes but not yet
    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    After all the protest, did the beef farmers get anything? I stopped following a while back?

    No - they got nothing


  • #133
    longgonesilver
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭longgonesilver


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    After all the protest, did the beef farmers get anything? I stopped following a while back?

    Small financial gain, maybe.

    Plenty of promises. Some might work out.

    Biggest gain is in public opinion, the issues are now public, support from a lot of people outside agriculture.

    An example here from last Fridays Irish Examiner.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/arguments-against-beef-not-fleshed-out-951837.html


  • #134
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,844 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Aibp on 3 45 and 3.55


  • #135
    Anto_Meath
    Registered Users Posts: 1,400 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    Yes but not yet
    Ah they did get a bit of an increase with the QA bonus and there is an agreement there that could help improve the position over all. I think they have probably highlight the corruptness of the industry, now it could be a few years away but this will cause MII to think before the try to hammer the farmers again. They have a nice little arrangement with the VAT rebate going that they wouldn't want too much focus on so I thinking they will be keeping prices around €3.50 and above.


  • #136
    wrangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Yes but not yet
    whelan2 wrote: »
    Aibp on 3 45 and 3.55

    I was thinking the main three won't move.
    Are they killing yet


  • #137
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    The pickets are lifted, the question in the thread title is answered, but the discussion continues here.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



This discussion has been closed.
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