Beef strike II what's a fair base price for the Autumn for R=3= steers?

Danzy · 17-09-2019 4:13pm

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Joe Brolly more like...

Wrangler is going to be on dancing with the Stars in January, his going national.

Danzy · 17-09-2019 4:15pm

Welding Rod wrote: »

Government with full support of EU, needs to smash into these organisations with a steel fist, sooner rather than later.

What ever about the govt the EU has no problems with the factories.

_Brian · 17-09-2019 4:26pm

Welding Rod wrote: »

The problem as I see it, is that meat and many other food products for that matter, from the farmers perspective are perishable products. Made all the more perishable and expensive to produce, as a result of pretty draconian regulations.
In such a market situation, the normal competition laws should have some sort of set aside or government intervention, to prevent the market elements higher up the chain, from taking advantage of the weak position of the holder of the perishable product. The farmer.
Surely the principle laws of natural justice, should allow government to have the power, to prevent and gouging by any contributor in the chain including the farmer.

The big processor in this country AND the big retailers, are all allowed to operate on huge scale, and not a single one of them are compelled to make returns to government which detail their operating margins by major product lines. Meanwhile the farmer can’t hardly move a beast from one paddock to the next without notifying a couple of quangos ......

Government with full support of EU, needs to smash into these organisations with a steel fist, sooner rather than later.

I think what you are missing is that this is exactly the situation that government want. Large commercial entities will always be preferred and protected above low status farmers.
I for one don’t see a satisfactory resolution from this for farmers, why on earth would factories Up their base price ?? The country is awash with beef, they sit back and the phone rings off the wall with lads begging to get cattle in, gone are the days of having to go out and secure numbers. If 20% of beef farms went broke and planted in the morning there would still be a glut of beef being produced here so I see no need for factories to cough up.

Welding Rod · 17-09-2019 4:42pm

_Brian wrote: »

I think what you are missing is that this is exactly the situation that government want. Large commercial entities will always be preferred and protected above low status farmers.
I for one don’t see a satisfactory resolution from this for farmers, why on earth would factories Up their base price ?? The country is awash with beef, they sit back and the phone rings off the wall with lads begging to get cattle in, gone are the days of having to go out and secure numbers. If 20% of beef farms went broke and planted in the morning there would still be a glut of beef being produced here so I see no need for factories to cough up.

Your logic says there are too many animals entering the beef chain. Finishers by extension should have the pricing power over the suckler farmers, and pay a price which leaves them with an acceptable margin.
Why isn’t basic supply demand economics applying here as you would expect?

_Brian · 17-09-2019 4:48pm

Welding Rod wrote: »

Your logic says there are too many animals entering the beef chain. Finishers by extension should have the pricing power over the suckler farmers, and pay a price which leaves them with an acceptable margin.
Why isn’t basic supply demand economics applying here as you would expect?

The intervention of direct payments skews the market considerably.
Plenty living of direct payments whonare either producing cattle at a loss or finishing for loss or break even. Direct payments have allowed this develop and processors/retailers have capitalised on the desire of lads to keep farming on ever smaller and smaller margins until we are where we are today.

It’s not really a standard free market as a result.

FarmerBrowne · 17-09-2019 4:52pm

48 hours on, has there been any factory that was picketed now not getting picketed or are things same as they were?

Robson99 · 17-09-2019 4:53pm

_Brian wrote: »

I think what you are missing is that this is exactly the situation that government want. Large commercial entities will always be preferred and protected above low status farmers.
I for one don’t see a satisfactory resolution from this for farmers, why on earth would factories Up their base price ?? The country is awash with beef, they sit back and the phone rings off the wall with lads begging to get cattle in, gone are the days of having to go out and secure numbers. If 20% of beef farms went broke and planted in the morning there would still be a glut of beef being produced here so I see no need for factories to cough up.

Why are they out of beef after 2 weeks if there is such a glut of cattle.. seems to me they have plenty of demand for it.
Imagine all the jobs that would be lost if the beef industry is goosed?? Wonder did that ever enter Creeds head ??

Panch18 · 17-09-2019 5:04pm

eorna wrote: »

Cant understand why price cant be negotiated and is anti competitive..
Sure we can argue minimum wage is anti competitive.
But it needs to be there in order to avoid “back to slavery times”.
So if you have a business and are loosing money and cant pay your employees cant say.. sure there is no demand will give you 1€ /hour..
Why is the difference??

I have been quite vocal on here about this picket etc etc

However i have to say it is an absolute disgrace the way, both this time and previously with the IFA, that farmers have been treated by the competition authority. Especially when you consider how the factories seem to work in unison.

That competition authority are 1 of the greatest shower of modsnip ever created and if a load or 2 of slurry happened to be spread across the front of their building with that shower inside, then that would be great

longgonesilver · 17-09-2019 5:06pm

Welding Rod wrote: »

Your logic says there are too many animals entering the beef chain. Finishers by extension should have the pricing power over the suckler farmers, and pay a price which leaves them with an acceptable margin.
Why isn’t basic supply demand economics applying here as you would expect?

Another reason is that there is a very long lead in to supply. Cattle that should be going in to the factory now at 30 months were conceived in July 2016.
If a farmer raising his own cattle all the way decided to give up today he still has three years of animals organised.

Panch18 · 17-09-2019 5:07pm

Robson99 wrote: »

Any sign of Willfarm to come back ?.
Badly missed on farming forums

yeah he was back on the other thread with a different name, can't think of it off the top of my head

_Brian · 17-09-2019 5:12pm

Robson99 wrote: »

Why are they out of beef after 2 weeks if there is such a glut of cattle.. seems to me they have plenty of demand for it.
Imagine all the jobs that would be lost if the beef industry is goosed?? Wonder did that ever enter Creeds head ??

That’s just modern commercial logistics. Nobody stocks appreciateable volumes of everything but instead relies on a planned movement of goods “just in time”.

Sheep breeder · 17-09-2019 5:43pm

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Joe Brolly more like...

Victor Mildrew more like,

wrangler · 17-09-2019 6:01pm

Danzy wrote: »

Wrangler is going to be on dancing with the Stars in January, his going national.

Was told ten years ago I had the arteries of an eighty year old so the only way I'd be dancing with the stars is on the way up to wherever.
I'm like a tractor running on bad diesel now

trellheim · 17-09-2019 6:31pm

statements on beef in the oireachtas live now https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/oireachtas-tv-channel/

PeadarCo · 17-09-2019 6:42pm

Panch18 wrote:

That competition authority are 1 of the greatest shower of modsnip ever created and if a load or 2 of slurry happened to be spread across the front of their building with that shower inside, then that would be great

You can't have minimum purchase prices on an open market. If you want to agree a price via a contract a farmer(more likely a group of farmers) is going to have make it more beneficial for factories to deal with them directly than the open market.

The reasons for the low prices and very low bargaining power of farmers is text book economics. Loads of supply spread across a large amount of suppliers with very few buyers. You also have relatively clear information prices. Factories are naturally going to offer very similar prices when it's very easy to figure out what their competitors are paying via public sources. It would be very strange if there were any large deviations given how much information is available on beef prices.

Minimum purchase prices are very hard to enforce. Look at the issues the government has had with minimum prices for alcohol.

Danzy · 17-09-2019 7:27pm

wrangler wrote: »

Was told ten years ago I had the arteries of an eighty year old so the only way I'd be dancing with the stars is on the way up to wherever.
I'm like a tractor running on bad diesel now

I hope you drive for miles and miles yet.

MIKEKC · 17-09-2019 7:33pm

Robson99 wrote: »

Why are they out of beef after 2 weeks if there is such a glut of cattle.. seems to me they have plenty of demand for it.
Imagine all the jobs that would be lost if the beef industry is goosed?? Wonder did that ever enter Creeds head ??

They are out of beef because the picketers won't allow cattle in or beef out of the factories. Cattle boiling up on many farms

wrangler · 17-09-2019 7:37pm

Robson99 wrote: »

Why are they out of beef after 2 weeks if there is such a glut of cattle.. seems to me they have plenty of demand for it.
Imagine all the jobs that would be lost if the beef industry is goosed?? Wonder did that ever enter Creeds head ??

Would there be the same demand if they paid €4/kg for it I wonder....... just saying.
Creed can't set the beef price, this mess is not of his making

wrangler · 17-09-2019 7:39pm

MIKEKC wrote: »

MIKEKC wrote: »

They are out of beef because the picketers won't allow cattle in or beef out of factories. Cattle are building up on many farms

Boiling up was probably a better description, hopefully to boil over

theaceofspies · 17-09-2019 7:48pm

Every utterance, every press release, every appeal from establishment since protests have begun has exposed the belligerence and contempt the establishment holds for the farmer. The establishment are digging a hole deeper by the day.

The more this goes on MII, Bord Bia et al are exposing the cloak they have been hiding behind. This protest is not about now it is about the last 20 years of MANIPULATION. Are we the new fishermen? no chance.

Just because we don't wear a sharp suit doesn't mean we are thick.

They still take us for fools even though we have come to this empass.

wrangler · 17-09-2019 7:52pm

theaceofspies wrote: »

Every utterance, every press release, every appeal from establishment since protests have begun has exposed the belligerence and contempt the establishment holds for the farmer. The establishment are digging a hole deeper by the day.

The more this goes on MII, Bord Bia et al are exposing the cloak they have been hiding behind. This protest is not about now it is about the last 20 years of MANIPULATION. Are we the new fishermen? no chance.

Just because we don't wear a sharp suit doesn't mean we are thick.

They still take us for fools even though we have come to this empass.

Very disappointed with the AOs ignoring the faulty machines and over trimming and, as we know, no one will lose their jobs

Buford T. Justice XIX · 17-09-2019 7:55pm

There's been a 'labelling' error on beef from ABP which was killed in both Ireland and the UK.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/bord-bia-orders-withdrawal-and-investigation-into-beef-with-erroneous-label-495079

Funny the week it shows up.

Muckit · 17-09-2019 7:59pm

Very impressed with Eddie Punch speaking to Agriland.

wrangler · 17-09-2019 8:02pm

Muckit wrote: »

Very impressed with Eddie Punch speaking to Agriland.

He's very good, I really enjoy his presentations any where I 've seen him

orm0nd · 17-09-2019 8:15pm

Muckit wrote: »

Very impressed with Eddie Punch speaking to Agriland.

he gave a a good interview on clare fm as well

now the sh1t is starting to hit the fan ,

https://clarechampion.ie/kepak-lay-off-all-clare-employees-and-suspend-e6-5m-investment/

High bike · 17-09-2019 8:25pm

Listening to lovely Leo in the dail today was like listening to an MII rep

gerryirl · 17-09-2019 8:33pm

wrangler wrote: »

Was told ten years ago I had the arteries of an eighty year old so the only way I'd be dancing with the stars is on the way up to wherever.
I'm like a tractor running on bad diesel now

yes your definitely spluttering

elperello · 17-09-2019 8:37pm

You can decommission those old carpets -

https://www.thejournal.ie/knackeries-reopen-aca-4813494-Sep2019/

gerryirl · 17-09-2019 8:38pm

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

There's been a 'labelling' error on beef from ABP which was killed in both Ireland and the UK.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/bord-bia-orders-withdrawal-and-investigation-into-beef-with-erroneous-label-495079

Funny the week it shows up.

the local centra had Danish stuff few weeks back... guess what when they were challenged it was a wrong label..

sjb25 · 17-09-2019 8:50pm

orm0nd wrote: »

he gave a a good interview on clare fm as well

now the sh1t is starting to hit the fan ,

https://clarechampion.ie/kepak-lay-off-all-clare-employees-and-suspend-e6-5m-investment/

Oh 1400 staff is a big deal...

Robson99 · 17-09-2019 8:58pm

wrangler wrote: »

Very disappointed with the AOs ignoring the faulty machines and over trimming and, as we know, no one will lose their jobs

Maybe it's time farmers contributed say €1 per head and we have our own guy appointed by say BPM in each factory monitoring the grading etc. Would be better spent than having monies deducted for the IFA

wrangler · 17-09-2019 9:11pm

Robson99 wrote: »

Maybe it's time farmers contributed say €1 per head and we have our own guy appointed by say BPM in each factory monitoring the grading etc. Would be better spent than having monies deducted for the IFA

He wouldn't be a wet week in the place when he'd be accused of being bought.
I know......howabout the civil servants doing their jobs properly
or is that totally out of the question.
It's bad enough them getting our taxes but to have to pay someone as well to monitor the monitors would definitely make me cancel my levies.
Anyway it's private property so won't be happening

White Clover · 17-09-2019 9:12pm

wrangler wrote: »

He wouldn't be a wet week in the place when he'd be accused of being bought.
I know......howabout the civil servants doing their jobs properly
or is that totally out of the question.
It's bad enough them getting our taxes but to have to pay someone as well to monitor the monitors would definitely make me cancel my levies.
Anyway it's private property so won't be happening

Stealing is illegal.

Danzy · 17-09-2019 9:13pm

wrangler wrote: »

He wouldn't be a wet week in the place when he'd be accused of being bought.
I know......howabout the civil servants doing their jobs properly
or is that totally out of the question.
It's bad enough them getting our taxes but to have to pay someone as well to monitor the monitors would definitely make me cancel my levies.
Anyway it's private property so won't be happening

They wouldn't last long in their job if they were doing it properly.

They'd be pulled out and put elsewhere

MIKEKC · 17-09-2019 9:17pm

wrangler wrote: »

MIKEKC wrote: »

Boiling up was probably a better description, hopefully to boil over

Didn't think of it that way. Maybe I shouldn't have corrected my typo

wrangler · 17-09-2019 9:21pm

White Clover wrote: »

Stealing is illegal.

Who's stealing

Good loser · 17-09-2019 9:26pm

Muckit wrote: »

The problem is that far too many factories have no idea of business inside the farm gate and greatly underestimate the time effort and money it takes to rear beef cattle. Its next to impossible to rear an animal to 30 mths and make a margin. The factory market price has plummeted to under €3 50/kg.

How many factory men on here have actually gone out and tried to make a living rearing beef cattle? It's not very easy. Not very easy at all.

Do you not know how a market works?

Do you imagine prices are made on the basis of sentiment? On the appreciation (or not) of what the seller 'deserves'?

I've been selling cattle into the beef market since 1967 and since then (including 2019) it has always operated the same way - factories pay more when demand is high and less when demand is low. There is nothing special in any way about 2019. And this situation will never change.
All this rubbish about a once and for ever change in how the business works and how things will never be the same again once the factories/the Minister/the IFA/the IFJ/Bord Bia/ are 'sorted' is absurd in the extreme.

Base price · 17-09-2019 9:29pm

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

There's been a 'labelling' error on beef from ABP which was killed in both Ireland and the UK.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/bord-bia-orders-withdrawal-and-investigation-into-beef-with-erroneous-label-495079

Funny the week it shows up.

Unfortunately I think there has been a lot of Bord Bia mis-labeling going on for years. As I've previously stated I buy some of our beef from the Lidl Deluxe range. I always look on the reverse of the packaging to see where it was slaughtered and cut. The steaks that I buy are slaughtered in Ireland but cut in Northern Ireland yet the packaging contains the normal Bord Bia QA logo with the tri-colour but that is the incorrect label. It should be a slightly different label that doesn't show the tri-colour. BTW I have no problem buying steaks from animals slaughtered in Ireland but cut/processed in the North but I think that if farmers have to jump through hoops to maintain their Bord Bia certification then the said organisation should be on top of the labeling issue.
https://www.bordbia.ie/lifestyle/information/bord-bia-quality-mark/quality-mark-faqs/

wrangler · 17-09-2019 9:31pm

Good loser wrote: »

Do you not know how a market works?

Do you imagine prices are made on the basis of sentiment? On the appreciation (or not) of what the seller 'deserves'?

I've been selling cattle into the beef market since 1967 and since then (including 2019) it has always operated the same way - factories pay more when demand is high and less when demand is low. There is nothing special in any way about 2019. And this situation will never change.
All this rubbish about a once and for ever change in how the business works and how things will never be the same again once the factories/the Minister/the IFA/the IFJ/Bord Bia/ are 'sorted' is absurd in the extreme.

There has been bad times before now and you just hang on in teh bumpy rides, hopefully it'll improve again

Castlekeeper · 17-09-2019 9:32pm

Good loser wrote: »

Muckit wrote: »

The problem is that far too many factories have no idea of business inside the farm gate and greatly underestimate the time effort and money it takes to rear beef cattle. Its next to impossible to rear an animal to 30 mths and make a margin. The factory market price has plummeted to under €3 50/kg.

How many factory men on here have actually gone out and tried to make a living rearing beef cattle? It's not very easy. Not very easy at all.

Do you not know how a market works?

Do you imagine prices are made on the basis of sentiment? On the appreciation (or not) of what the seller 'deserves'?

I've been selling cattle into the beef market since 1967 and since then (including 2019) it has always operated the same way - factories pay more when demand is high and less when demand is low. There is nothing special in any way about 2019. And this situation will never change.
All this rubbish about a once and for ever change in how the business works and how things will never be the same again once the factories/the Minister/the IFA/the IFJ/Bord Bia/ are 'sorted' is absurd in the extreme.

It's not the way the chicken business works, contracts agreed before houses are filled, grower knows his margins depending on the usual variables.
Neither rubbish nor sentiment, just good business for all.

White Clover · 17-09-2019 9:34pm

wrangler wrote: »

Who's stealing

Factories stealing meat from farmers. They're not above the law, shouldn't be anyway.

Good loser · 17-09-2019 9:35pm

Panch18 wrote: »

You only have to read the comments of some on here to show that all logic is gone out the window, in fact the whole beef plan had no logic to begin with, it’s just chance your arm stuff!

Spot on there Panch.

Reason and even commonsense are suspended while conspiracy theories, illogicality and ráiméis rule the roost.

wrangler · 17-09-2019 9:36pm

Castlekeeper wrote: »

It's not the way the chicken business works, contracts agreed before houses are filled, grower knows his margins depending on the usual variables.
Neither rubbish nor sentiment, just good business for all.

I thought they didn't own the chickens, grower provides just the work and buildings,

Muckit · 17-09-2019 9:37pm

wrangler wrote: »

I thought they didn't own the chickens, grower provides just the work and buildings,

Could be the way to go for beef. No big money tied up in stock

Good loser · 17-09-2019 9:38pm

Castlekeeper wrote: »

It's not the way the chicken business works, contracts agreed before houses are filled, grower knows his margins depending on the usual variables.
Neither rubbish nor sentiment, just good business for all.

If there were as many beef farmers as chicken farmers it might work there too.

Tileman · 17-09-2019 9:39pm

Was fairly heated in the Bord bia tent today when I was there. Allot of emotion and passion on display. Not sure how the few lads getting most of the stick were able to remain so diplomatic to be honest.

Will be interesting to see how they fare after another 2 days of it. Huge resentment at authorizing the factories in other juristication.

Talking to allot of people today at the ploughing and it has allot of support still. However I thought Michael D spoke well. This isn’t the endgame but a stepping stone to an improvement. Think they protest has achieved all it can for the moment and they should step down and see how the agreement works out. Can always go back next summer when the grass is plentiful again.

it’s a Funny saw pat mcfonagh supermacs walking around and warmly received but there was a few politicians afraid to come out of their tents.

wrangler · 17-09-2019 9:41pm

Muckit wrote: »

Could be the way to go for beef. No big money tied up in stock

Being done already in feedlots, :eek:

Nobbies · 17-09-2019 9:41pm

Piece on beef blockade right now on primetime.

Good loser · 17-09-2019 9:42pm

Muckit wrote: »

Could be the way to go for beef. No big money tied up in stock

The factory feedlots that Bass rants about?

K.G. · 17-09-2019 9:45pm

Tileman wrote: »

Was fairly heated in the Bord bia tent today when I was there. Allot of emotion and passion on display. Not sure how the few lads getting most of the stick were able to remain so diplomatic to be honest.

Will be interesting to see how they fare after another 2 days of it. Huge resentment at authorizing the factories in other juristication.

Talking to allot of people today at the ploughing and it has allot of support still. However I thought Michael D spoke well. This isn’t the endgame but a stepping stone to an improvement. Think they protest has achieved all it can for the moment and they should step down and see how the agreement works out. Can always go back next summer when the grass is plentiful again.

it’s a Funny saw pat mcfonagh supermacs walking around and warmly received but there was a few politicians afraid to come out of their tents.

This is gas .met noone that.says it should continue. It seems all the strikers talk to each other and all the non strikers talk to each other

Beef strike II what's a fair base price for the Autumn for R=3= steers?

Comments