Extradite killers to the USA.

dont bother · 17-04-2015 5:17pm

i was going to say to bring in the death penalty for murderers, but then i thought about it, and how "justice" works in this country, and came to the conclusion that, if you ever defend yourself against scum in a fight or you're being bet in the street, and you accidentally kill someone, then you would also be liable for the death penalty.

i think they just need to send out plane tickets to all the tax paying upstanding citizens who contribute to society, get them on the planes, send them off for a while, and then.... NUKE the entire country and start again without the scum.

ohnonotgmail · 17-04-2015 5:18pm

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Well, the first sentence was necessarily sarcastic given the generally inane thrust of your point (if we don't kill prisoners who commit grave crimes they "do whatever they want" in prison), the second sentence is a statement addressing what we as a society want to achieve with our justice system.

It find it odd either sentence seemingly leaves you unable to respond with more than a misplaced sense of the validity of your own populist, paper thin argument.

is that the royal "we" you are using?

Magico Gonzalez · 17-04-2015 5:24pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

is that the royal "we" you are using?

If it troubles you so, read the paragraph without the "we." Use "the justice system" if it helps you to the end of the sentence.

Semantics, a false friend for many a fool.

ohnonotgmail · 17-04-2015 5:27pm

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

If it troubles you so, read the paragraph without the "we." Use "the justice system" if it helps you to the end of the sentence.

...

meh, got bored after that.

Magico Gonzalez · 17-04-2015 5:29pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

meh, got bored after that.

Semantics, then "meh".

I suppose those were the last options open to you.

ohnonotgmail · 17-04-2015 5:30pm

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Semantics, then "meh".

I suppose those were the last options open to you.

nah, i still have patriotism to fall back on.

Magico Gonzalez · 17-04-2015 5:31pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

nah, i still have patriotism to fall back on.

Indeed.

ohnonotgmail · 17-04-2015 5:32pm

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Indeed.

and if you can tell me why that is the case i will admit you were right.

end of the road · 17-04-2015 5:36pm

Hachiko wrote: »

In light of the tragic events in Glasgow, I see no reason why say the governments of Ireland and the UK could reach some agreement to send people convicted of crimes like this to the USA, where they can be put on death row.

Seriously, crimes like this are the lowest of the low and I am sure the cost of sending these vile people abroad can be subsidised by tax payers.

I am all in.

so. we get someone else to deal with our problems, who has more problems then we ever could have, just to satisfy the blood lust of a couple of wild animals who continue to support a backward punishment? and with all the appeals and the costs involved, we'd be bankrupt within a year. the death penalty is gone from ireland and the uk, it was abolished for good reason, get over it, move on, its not coming back

topper75 · 17-04-2015 5:38pm

dont bother wrote: »

i was going to say to bring in the death penalty for murderers, but then i thought about it, and how "justice" works in this country, and came to the conclusion that, if you ever defend yourself against scum in a fight or you're being bet in the street, and you accidentally kill someone, then you would also be liable for the death penalty.

Troubled as our system is, it is still capable of taking mitigating factors into account. Nobody gets an injection/rope/chair in any system in the world that I know of for merely defending themselves.

end of the road · 17-04-2015 5:40pm

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

I'm all for that but the do gooders in this country would never allow it.

who are these "do gooders" oh, they only exist in your head because you can't get what you want, grand so. now, in the real world, whats stopping the death penalty from being brought back, is EU law, and the fact the people voted to remove it altogether as they realized it achieves nothing and has no place in a modern country. but, if ranting about mythical "do gooders" helps, then don't let me stop you

Magico Gonzalez · 17-04-2015 5:40pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and if you can tell me why that is the case i will admit you were right.

You say tomato, I say tomato, let's call the whole thing off.

I'll sleep soundly enough without your admissions. My views are there in black and white in my previous posts.

topper75 · 17-04-2015 5:44pm

"wild animals" "backwards"

Interesting terms. A system where there is retribution through an established system for crimes commited is a mark of civilisation. No retribution, on the other hand, is what happens in the wild e.g. Mad Max.

Backwards is a term used by liberals for anything they don't like. They tend to label their own suggestions as forward or progressive. What do they think they are progressing to when people who commit heinous crimes are not facing meaningful retribution?

end of the road · 17-04-2015 5:49pm

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

A lot of u.s states have outsourced there prison systems to private companies, these would be glad to take our inmates for a fee.

yeah. the reason being "get it done on the cheep and f//k the problems" . keep the issues seen and not heard if you will. look at the problems its caused. private companies have no place being involved in such a system. its the states job.

end of the road · 17-04-2015 6:00pm

Whosthis wrote: »

The prison system in the U.S is a multi-billion dollar industry. Most prisons have capacity quotas, I would imagine they'd be delighted to take our prisoners. Have a read of this http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_prison_state_of_america_20141228

no wonder america is the way it is with this nonsense. no incentives for prisoners to reform or go straight. everything is put in their way so they will fail and end up back in prison to be screwed for more proffit by these paracitic companies (sorry i mean pay off their debt) disgusting. while our prison system is far from perfect in terms of rehabilitation, at least in some ways it tries. it needs to try harder though. but yes . we should send our lot out there so these paracites can proffit off slavery instead.

end of the road · 17-04-2015 6:01pm

Hachiko wrote: »

or even a country like Thailand, i am sure they would love our tax money to send these cretins to the lovely jails they have., the cost of sending them away to a place like that would be a lot less than it costs the tax payer in Ireland/UK to keep them in jail, and feeding the pricks.

it wouldn't. it would cost more

Magico Gonzalez · 17-04-2015 6:02pm

topper75 wrote: »

"wild animals" "backwards"

Interesting terms. A system where there is retribution through an established system for crimes commited is a mark of civilisation. No retribution, on the other hand, is what happens in the wild e.g. Mad Max.

Backwards is a term used by liberals for anything they don't like. They tend to label their own suggestions as forward or progressive. What do they think they are progressing to when people who commit heinous crimes are not facing meaningful retribution?

The argument is that retribution is transitory and does not address the wider needs of the society it seeks to protect.

It does not act as a deterrent, the most important issue. For me as important is the understanding that the justice system is fallible. By killing people you are making an absolute statement that the justice system is perfect and always correct. If you are killing people and do not believe in that perfection then what? You are ok with the idea of "accidentally" killing a handful of people every year as a trade off to the ideal of killing as an act of permanent restitution to the victims family? I don't believe that holds true.

Admitting the fallibility of the justice system should prevent us from killing criminals and should force us to constantly monitor and review the justice system against a clear set of measurable objectives. How many times did we get it wrong on, how many times were the police force complicit in falsifying evidence etc etc.

If anyone can read Debra Milke's story and still think state killing of prisoners is wise, well..I would feel genuinely worried about their sense of morality.

end of the road · 17-04-2015 6:04pm

topper75 wrote: »

Whereas the halting of all murder here coincided with the removal of the punishment from our books?

The only shine I see is off the glazed eyeballs of liberals and dogooder innocents from privileged backgrounds who don't grasp how heinous the crime of murder really is.

a post full of old rabel with the usual buzz terms thrown in . people like you need to get it into your heads that not everyone who has experienced a murder will think the same, and that being effected by murder isn't exclusive to the non privileged

end of the road · 17-04-2015 6:12pm

topper75 wrote: »

Murder: person who dies is innocent

Execution: person who dies was a murderer

Too subtle for you?

which means those carying out and sanctioning the execution are also murderers. so can the family of the executed have those people killed in revenge? after all the death penalty is a life for a life so therefore such execution of the judge and executioner would be acceptable and legitimate surely.

end of the road · 17-04-2015 6:17pm

catallus wrote: »

When properly implemented, the death penalty results in a recidivism rate of precisely zero.

so does life in prison. but neither stop others from murdering. but if you really are against killing, then you won't support killing to show killing is wrong, because it actually shows that it is right

weldoninhio · 17-04-2015 6:44pm

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

Ideally those who vote for the death penalty should have their names recorded and should be put on an 'Executioner Duty' list that might see them actually have to press the 'death button' on threat of a year in prison if they refuse/can't.

I'd do it for €60k a year. Line them up. 10/15/20/50 a day. Without a second thought.

weldoninhio · 17-04-2015 6:50pm

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Fair point, what I should have said was why kill prisoners when it is completely ineffective in terms of a deterrent. Do you believe that in these crimes of passion (that's what the majority are) the murdered will stop, consider his actions and the potential outcome and the potential to escape? No, of course not.

Justice is better viewed as a tool to better society rather than a binary solution to provide some vague notice of justice to a family of the victim whilst at the same time risking doubling that injustice by killing an innocent or mentally ill / someone with a severe learning difficulty etc.

What would be the point? Do you prioritise the possibility (and it's only a possibility) that the victims family might get some sort of satisfaction watching the death of the person that committed the capital offense? I think that's a very transitory, vague and useless notion of justice. Better the objective of the justice system to be the reduction of crime through rehabilitation, treat the urge to commit crime as a multi faceted issue including mental health problems, social problems and yes, the possibility that certain people are downright evil bstards who should be isolated from society. Killing to stop killing is not the way to achieve that.

Surely execution is 100% effective as a deterrent. How many people who have been executed have re-offended??

If someone is that way inclined that they would murder someone in cold blood, I don't think they would stop and research the consequences.

weldoninhio · 17-04-2015 6:58pm

end of the road wrote: »

so does life in prison. but neither stop others from murdering. but if you really are against killing, then you won't support killing to show killing is wrong, because it actually shows that it is right

So a prisoner serving life in prison has never murdered someone in prison?? Or are you talking claptrap??

Eutow · 17-04-2015 7:24pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'd do it for €60k a year. Line them up. 10/15/20/50 a day. Without a second thought.

No sorry, you don't get paid for it. You also sign a waiver stating if you execute an innocent person that was wrongly accused you get executed as punishment for killing an innocent person.

weldoninhio wrote: »

Surely execution is 100% effective as a deterrent. How many people who have been executed have re-offended??

If that was true, why are there still murders where the death penalty is legal?

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Anyone convicted of murder straight to the electric chair within a hour.

Really? So what about appeals etc? People are on death row in the states for years, decades because of retrials etc. What about that man that was released recently after spending 30 years on death row?

end of the road · 17-04-2015 7:25pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'd do it for €60k a year. Line them up. 10/15/20/50 a day. Without a second thought.

yeah, i'm sure. in your head.

weldoninhio wrote: »

Surely execution is 100% effective as a deterrent. How many people who have been executed have re-offended??

you do know the deterrent is to others, and not to the person being executed. it doesn't work as that deterrent to others.

weldoninhio wrote: »

So a prisoner serving life in prison has never murdered someone in prison?? Or are you talking claptrap??

they have. but i'm sure with proper security, prisoners wouldn't be able to murder each other

lertsnim · 17-04-2015 7:35pm

Hachiko wrote: »

In light of the tragic events in Glasgow, I see no reason why say the governments of Ireland and the UK could reach some agreement to send people convicted of crimes like this to the USA, where they can be put on death row.

Seriously, crimes like this are the lowest of the low and I am sure the cost of sending these vile people abroad can be subsidised by tax payers.

I am all in.

Wow. You really have no idea what extradition is do you?

UCDVet · 17-04-2015 9:43pm

end of the road wrote: »

so does life in prison. but neither stop others from murdering. but if you really are against killing, then you won't support killing to show killing is wrong, because it actually shows that it is right

In practice, it's far, far, far, far, far easier to ensure someone is dead than it is to ensure they remain in prison for life. Historically, even the world's most extreme 'inescapable' prisons have had prisoners escape.

weldoninhio · 17-04-2015 9:54pm

end of the road wrote: »

yeah, i'm sure. in your head.

you do know the deterrent is to others, and not to the person being executed. it doesn't work as that deterrent to others.

they have. but i'm sure with proper security, prisoners wouldn't be able to murder each other

I'd have no problem doing it.

So there should be no prisons then? Because crimes that are punishable by imprisonment, are still being carried out. Theft, robbery, murder, rape, etc. So obviously prison is not a deterrent so scrap it eh?

What about the guards? The prisoner would have access to the guards, and could kill them, no??

Hachiko · 21-05-2015 7:27pm

lertsnim wrote: »

Wow. You really have no idea what extradition is do you?

what genius solution have you sir. Clearly we have vile beings convicted of atrocious crimes on these shores over several decades that on hindsight would be best dealt with a swift death. Alas, such is the nature of our justice system, it is not always done as one would wish.

lizzyman · 21-05-2015 7:32pm

catallus wrote: »

Why not just bring in death row here?

Because we're part of the civilised world.

Hachiko · 21-05-2015 7:55pm

lizzyman wrote: »

Because we're part of the civilised world.

The USA is pretty civilized as are many other countries and they kill people like this, or at least put them in the Queue.

end of the road · 21-05-2015 8:26pm

Hachiko wrote: »

The USA is pretty civilized as are many other countries and they kill people like this, or at least put them in the Queue.

the USA doesn't know the meaning of the world civilised

wendell borton · 21-05-2015 10:11pm

Ali Damache got off being deported despite being involved in conspiracy to murder due to conditions in the supermaxs over there, the judicery here are way too soft when it comes to it.

end of the road · 21-05-2015 11:00pm

wendell borton wrote: »

Ali Damache got off being deported despite being involved in conspiracy to murder due to conditions in the supermaxs over there, the judicery here are way too soft when it comes to it.

good. one less for murikas revolving door system, and private prison racket

Extradite killers to the USA.

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