Why I am leaving Ireland in 2019

hurler32 · 04-12-2018 10:53am

The opening poster definetly has a point as regards those who never did a days work in their lives and have large family’s ... unless you get a job of 60-70,000 those layabouts will be better off than someone working ... there should be a benefits cap in this country

Sycamore Tree · 04-12-2018 10:55am

I cannot get over that inheritance tax is 33% after the threshold. That is daylight robbery.
That's on income/assets that has been taxed heavily already.

Geuze · 04-12-2018 10:57am

yesto24 wrote: »

You would think that and that is what we were told. But it's not the case.
First off not all of the LPT paid to the local council stays with the council a good % of it goes to the have nots counties a sort of tax equilization. And second (I was told this by a Dublin City Council engineer I was working for) because DCC got so much money from the LPT other funds they would have gotten from the National government was cut.
Same result.

You are well informed.

Yes, although all LPT goes to councils, all the LPT collected in council A does not necessarily go to council A.

Councils keep 80% of their LPT, and 20% goes into a pot to be distributed to weaker councils.

Yes, this is known as fiscal equalisation.

Chips Lovell · 04-12-2018 11:01am

theguzman wrote: »

Ireland has Nordic Taxation levels and developing country levels of public services.

Something tells me you haven't been a developing country.

Or paid tax in a Nordic country...

murpho999 · 04-12-2018 11:03am

Biggest laugh ever, criticising Ireland because you have to pay taxes and now people complaining about inheritance tax as a disincentive to do well.

Who will care about taxes after you die. Also, if you have that much wealth you can organise it better to avoid taxation.

Also, OP thinking of moving to Qatar. It has no personal taxation and sunshine and that’s about it.

An absolute monarchy whose legal system is based on Sharia law. People are publically flogged for being an adulterer.
Stoning is a legal punishment there.

Don’t see why anybody would want to live there unless you were put there by your work for a short period of time and lots of money.

People love to bash Ireland and think the grass is greener on the other side.

I have lived abroad myself, Australia and The Netherlands, and I came to value what Ireland has.

I don’t judge a country on just it’s economy but much more. Scenery, amenities, lifestyle and its people.

Spend time in Dutch suburb with no countryside and people rigidly living the same life in their all white interior house sucks the life out of you despite having great transport, healthcare etc.

Ireland has its faults and could be better run but it is beautiful, safe and vibrant, and its people are witty, funny and most of all spontaneous, relaxed and as shown recently more liberal and progressive thinking than most.

Maybe the OP should move to Qatar to realise this.

04-12-2018 11:17am

I left and it worked out for me, and I wasn't under any impression that Ireland was a bad country. A while out of it will hammer it home that it's actually a great country.

Have to agree with some other posters here. You're pinning something else on the country and that's a pretty natural thing to do. I only get annoyed at traffic and get pissed off at the country I'm in when I'm stressed out about other things.

Wheeliebin30 · 04-12-2018 11:19am

Have to laugh at people claiming everyone is still broke yet we’re on course to spend the most this Christmas than ever before.

I think people majorly over exaggerate their finiacial position and don’t like people thinking they have loads of money.

professore · 04-12-2018 11:30am

theguzman wrote: »

Qatar is just one of the low tax regimes I am thinking of, The US is also very appealing depending on which state I'd go to. I don't know how anyone could defend what is happening in Ireland unless you were a Civil Servant on a cushy job with a pension. I know lads who stay in bed all day, drink a few cans or smoke a bit of weed, they have nothing to their name and contribute nothing to society only draw down from the system, before they would anger me but as every day passes I admire them more for being able to give two fingers to the taxman.

The US isnt low tax.. They have eye watering property taxes over there. A mate of mine pays $18k / year property tax on a house valued at $400k. Plus don't get sick - anything health related costs a fortune. And playing a sport costs a fortune. Plus rents are really expensive in the major cities, many worse than Dublin.

The Tetrarch · 04-12-2018 11:31am

Baby, please don't go
Baby, please don't go
Baby, please don't go
Down to New Orleans, you know I love you so

professore · 04-12-2018 11:35am

murpho999 wrote: »

Spend time in Dutch suburb with no countryside and people rigidly living the same life in their all white interior house sucks the life out of you despite having great transport, healthcare etc

QFT.

Standman · 04-12-2018 12:07pm

Well said OP.

Give me Qatar over Ireland any day. I can't think of one downside to living in Qatar compared to Ireland. Not one. No taxes? Must be paradise!

Laois_Man · 04-12-2018 12:15pm

I'd like to see these mathematical calculations that say our effective tax rate is 80% considering our GDP in 2017 was towards the 300 Billion mark and our average annual income is 38,500 and the Government tax intake of 2017 was under 51 Billion

suicide_circus · 04-12-2018 12:30pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

the generally successful attempts to distract people with lots of easy-win social referenda instead

Leo's problem is he is running out of low hanging fruit. The remaining feel-good no-brainer populist referenda are few and far between and once they run out, the emperor will have no clothes. Health service worse than ever, universities free falling down the international rankings, no answers to housing crisis, continuing the policy of over reliance on FDI and the dublin-centric economy and then top it all off with a plan to increase the population by a million by 2040 but no plan around the calibre of the immigrants.

Playing a blinder, Leo.

Wheeliebin30 · 04-12-2018 12:47pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Leo's problem is he is running out of low hanging fruit. The remaining feel-good no-brainer populist referenda are few and far between and once they run out, the emperor will have no clothes. Health service worse than ever, universities free falling down the international rankings, no answers to housing crisis, continuing the policy of over reliance on FDI and the dublin-centric economy and then top it all off with a plan to increase the population by a million by 2040 but no plan around the calibre of the immigrants.

Playing a blinder, Leo.

Once again it’s not a plan to increase the population by 1 million immigrants.

It’s a forecast of population increasing.

More waffle.

04-12-2018 12:48pm

The best and worst thing about Ireland is that we don't give a ****. Stuff doesn't work properly but a few days in Holland not in the Dam was enough for me. 1 day in the Damn was too much. :P

On taxes it's swings and roundabouts and one good thing about here is that there's always a cheap option when it comes to food/shopping. It's not nice to have to watch the pennies but a person could easily get by on 20 quid a week for food if they needed to.

04-12-2018 12:50pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Once again it’s not a plan to increase the population by 1 million immigrants.

It’s a forecast of population increasing.

More waffle.

When our fertility rates are below replacement levels where is this natural increase going to come from?

suicide_circus · 04-12-2018 12:52pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Once again it’s not a plan to increase the population by 1 million immigrants.

It’s a forecast of population increasing.

More waffle.

I don't mind if it is immigrants, I just want quality immigrants.

Geuze · 04-12-2018 1:39pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

I'd like to see these mathematical calculations that say our effective tax rate is 80% considering our GDP in 2017 was towards the 300 Billion mark and our average annual income is 38,500 and the Government tax intake of 2017 was under 51 Billion

2017 taxes = 68,570m

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/giea/governmentincomeandexpenditurejuly2018/

Average labour earnings 2017 = 37,646, note this IS NOT average incomes

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/earningsandlabourcosts/

seamie78 · 04-12-2018 2:31pm

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

I cannot get over that inheritance tax is 33% after the threshold. That is daylight robbery.
That's on income/assets that has been taxed heavily already.

Any monies accumulated are most likely to be in the form of property, as its inheritance its likely to belong to an elderly person, possibly a nice house in a nice part of Dublin for 10,000 in the 70s. that same property is now worth €1million, the capital appreciation of €990,000 has never been taxed in any shape or form

Edgware · 04-12-2018 2:44pm

professore wrote: »

The US isnt low tax.. They have eye watering property taxes over there. A mate of mine pays $18k / year property tax on a house valued at $400k. Plus don't get sick - anything health related costs a fortune. And playing a sport costs a fortune. Plus rents are really expensive in the major cities, many worse than Dublin.

True. Try sending your kids to college in the U.S.A.
While there are costs in Ireland a lot of the costs can be tackled if the little ***** take on summer work and part time jobs. A lot of families also get grants towards fees etc.
No one ever said students should have an easy ride through college

Grayson · 04-12-2018 3:18pm

professore wrote: »

The US isnt low tax.. They have eye watering property taxes over there. A mate of mine pays $18k / year property tax on a house valued at $400k. Plus don't get sick - anything health related costs a fortune. And playing a sport costs a fortune. Plus rents are really expensive in the major cities, many worse than Dublin.

I think Dublin rents are the worst for rent compared to income. But you're right about everything else. Medical insurance costs a fortune if your job doesn't pay for it.

Dick phelan · 04-12-2018 3:24pm

I'd agree big time regarding taxation, it's far too high and i feel people in the middle really get screwed in Ireland. I'm also not a massive fan of a lot of the political attitudes that gain weight here, the kind that believe in free money for all at the cost of massive taxes for those that get off their arse to work. Having said that it's still a great country, beautiful landscape and beaches, fantastic people, wonderful culture of sport, music ect. We also enjoy many freedoms which we take for granted elsewhere this is not the case.

Truth there's good and bad in all countries, some are indeed better than others and the truth is Ireland in world terms would be one of the best. I wish you luck OP i live abroad myself right now and am enjoying it, having said that there's plenty i miss about Ireland in time you might find absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Bigbagofcans · 04-12-2018 3:33pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Have to laugh at people claiming everyone is still broke yet we’re on course to spend the most this Christmas than ever before.

I think people majorly over exaggerate their finiacial position and don’t like people thinking they have loads of money.

Agreed. Although there are a lot of people in bad financial situations, some people are struggling with their finances 'cos they're trying to keep up with the Joneses. No one is forcing you spend a fortune a month to pay for your new 182 car.

creditcarder · 04-12-2018 3:39pm

"its easier now to move from the lower to middle than it ever has been. there is **** all of a difference between say someone on 24000 and 37 a few grand after the ****in tax man."

I thought that the average Irish salary was 44,000 ?

04-12-2018 3:47pm

Geuze wrote: »

2017 taxes = 68,570m

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/giea/governmentincomeandexpenditurejuly2018/

Average labour earnings 2017 = 37,646, note this IS NOT average incomes

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/earningsandlabourcosts/

Can't tax revenue theoretically reach 99.99% or something I'm guessing? It's just the multiplier effect.

Captain Chaos · 04-12-2018 3:49pm

creditcarder wrote: »

"its easier now to move from the lower to middle than it ever has been. there is **** all of a difference between say someone on 24000 and 37 a few grand after the ****in tax man."

I thought that the average Irish salary was 44,000 ?

On the Last Word last night they said it was 47k.

If that's the average wage, what's the average job role that everyone is in. I'd love to know that.

Ray Palmer · 04-12-2018 4:21pm

theguzman wrote: »

LirW wrote: »

Yes but where are you heading

Probably Qatar

LOL
So you really don't care about human rights and think that you are moving to a fairer society?

Taxes could be reduced here if we decided to forego social welfare and human rights.

You are just a hypocrite and all your claims of how bad things are here you don't care about other people in another country but willing to support it.

04-12-2018 4:26pm

100% inheritance tax be a good way to go

and the family home to have all protections removed from.bankruptcy hearings etc

break the cycle

sasta le · 04-12-2018 4:29pm

NSAman wrote: »

I left a good few years ago. Have set up a nice lifestyle for myself with all the "little" creature comforts that one could want. I couldi not make a living in Ireland in what I do, so I was left with no option.

Would I return to Ireland if I could? ABSO****LUTELY

I already have my retirement plan set out, I have the property bought and will start building that future this coming year.

I love living here, BUT, I also know that I would love to spend more time at home (it is home after all).

Your very lucky to have that to come home too
Going abroad work out well so fair play

Alun · 04-12-2018 4:33pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

On the Last Word last night they said it was 47k.

If that's the average wage, what's the average job role that everyone is in. I'd love to know that.

The distribution of salaries/wages is not a symmetrical bell curve, so the average isn't a very helpful figure. The median wage, i.e. the wage most people are earning, will be somewhat less than the average.

Mr. teddywinkles · 04-12-2018 4:33pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

On the Last Word last night they said it was 47k.

If that's the average wage, what's the average job role that everyone is in. I'd love to know that.

Lots and lots of overtime.

Geuze · 04-12-2018 4:55pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

On the Last Word last night they said it was 47k.

If that's the average wage, what's the average job role that everyone is in. I'd love to know that.

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/

Average earnings 2017 for full-time workers = 46,402

See here:
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2017/

Note this includes overtime and bonuses, it is not the average basic pay.

Geuze · 04-12-2018 4:57pm

Alun wrote: »

The distribution of salaries/wages is not a symmetrical bell curve, so the average isn't a very helpful figure. The median wage, i.e. the wage most people are earning, will be somewhat less than the average.

Yes.

Median earnings are less than the mean 46k.

Median earnings maybe 40k for FT workers, don't have the figures to hand.

misstearheus · 04-12-2018 7:26pm

'Murricka to live the dream. Oz to work. Ireland to......

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-12-2018 7:43pm

misstearheus wrote: »

'Murricka to live the dream. Oz to work. Ireland to......

.... get pissed off about living in Ireland?

holystungun9 · 04-12-2018 9:27pm

Alana Yummy Cub wrote: »

Hilarious. Sharia law and blatant labour rights violations?

And don't forget the 20% Stamp (on your head) duty!

manonboard · 04-12-2018 9:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

When our fertility rates are below replacement levels where is this natural increase going to come from?

This information suggests your perspective is not accurate.

Growth rate 1.77%
Birth rate 13.7 births/1,000 population
Death rate 6.5 deaths/1,000 population
Life expectancy 80.19 years

Demographics of the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia

05-12-2018 12:05am

manonboard wrote: »

This information suggests your perspective is not accurate.

Growth rate 1.77%
Birth rate 13.7 births/1,000 population
Death rate 6.5 deaths/1,000 population
Life expectancy 80.19 years

Demographics of the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Total_fertility_rate

Idbatterim · 05-12-2018 12:16am

Fair play to you op. The place is an off the wall kip. Middle to high income earners hammered to pay for the legions of wasters that the spineless politicians bend over backwards for. If I were younger and without attachments here, I’d be out of here in a flash...

The country is totally incapable of running itself... the lpt is a token charge. Vat at 23 % is quite high. It’s the marginal rate of tax that I find idiotic , it’s totally anti enterprise and employment...

I’ve said this many times , living standards are significantly reduced for workers , to pay for the off the wall welfare and perks state primarily. In other countries where you pay “high tax” you get a lot back, here? Earn fifty k etc and you are rich, earn a ****ty income and it’s acyyslly rules you out of qualifying for anything free ...

AllForIt · 05-12-2018 12:23am

Standard of living doesn't just concern personal income. It applies to the environment you live in. There is little point if having tonnes of disposable income if your environment is squalid. The environment we live in here in Ireland is quite good. It was much worse in the 70's/80's where there were for example lots of squalid housing estates in Dublin inner city and in various places around Ireland. Those places don't exist anymore.

McGiver · 05-12-2018 12:25am

Geuze wrote:

We pay 38% tax on our GNI* income.

That figure is comparable to Netherlands and not far from Germany. You get hell loads of free stuff and proper governance in these countries.

In Ireland you get almost nothing in return:
1. Failing hospitals
2. Schools outsourced to the church
3. University need tuition fees
4. Infrastructure is a joke or missing and where isn't it's damn expensive
5. Generally poor governance

McGiver · 05-12-2018 12:37am

Cina wrote:

The op and others on here seem to be using the Nordics, Switzerland, and Germany as examples of better countries than ours. Well, yeah, maybe they are, maybe they do things better than us, but they have their issues too. Nitpicking the 4-5 best countries in the world to live in as a brush to beat Ireland with is silly.

Not maybe but for sure they do many things better.

First you say Ireland is the best country in the world, metrics etc and then you say the top countries in Europe are not a good benchmark to use. That's totally contradictory.

Obviously, au contraire these countries are exactly the kind of benchmark Irish public should demand to be used to benchmark the country otherwise progress on core issues is unlikely. If these countries are used as the benchmark then the wonderful PR of how great progressive country Ireland is quickly fades away into mediocrity. Because in reality it's an average country with quite a few serious gaps.

Now, in reality, talking about metrics - when is going the Republic going to become a real secular Republic and fully separate the Church from the State?

PauloMN · 05-12-2018 12:41am

Tax take too low from lower paid workers and welfare payments too high. Until both of those change, Ireland will just continue to struggle to provide health, housing and education to its people. Ireland has a staggeringly low tax take from low paid workers.

Take something like HAP - essentially a top up payment from the state so that people who really cannot afford to rent in a certain area with their income are able to do so. These payments coming out of the tax pot, going straight into the private rental market, thus increasing prices across the board. Effectively you can have two people - one on €40k and one on €20k + HAP - living the same lifestyle, with the state effectively ensuring that a €20k job in Ireland really is a €40k job. Anyone with even the most basic economic sense can see this is totally unsustainable - yet our cycles of government and TDs getting votes off Joe and Mary ensures that more handouts are given out every budget.

It then becomes the norm. When I was in my early 20s, it was drilled into me to get an education, get a job and make sure you can look after yourself, make progress, work extra hours if needs be etc.. There was simply no notion of state top ups. Social welfare was for when you were in desperate times, the last resort etc.. One look at the sort of stuff on RTE like "This Crowded House" etc. has made me realise that the ideals I was brought up with are long gone. State dependency is becoming the norm now, the expectation of twenty-somethings who want to be within a few miles of mammy.

Peter Flynt · 05-12-2018 12:51am

Ireland is a complete and utter expensive kip.

Blaizes · 05-12-2018 1:10am

Very expensive, creche fees,a visit to the doctor, car insurance to name but a few, a very few

rn · 05-12-2018 8:51am

I'm going to disagree with op sentiment.

In general Ireland has a very progressive and transparent taxation system. I think that I disagree that those on low incomes pay 0 income tax and that highest earners still have some very limited loop holes. In general those who can afford to pay more, do. I do disagree with how property tax is calculated, however I'm not against it as a concept on principle. I don't like that we have three income tax types. I'd prefer if we brought up paye tax and just got rid of usc in one revenue neutral move.

We have very good consumption taxation system. It's right that we have such high taxes on oil consumption and we need to look at increasing these in the short term. It's right that we have such high taxes on cigarettes and alcohol. They are luxuries that have a negative impact on society.

On asset tax, it's good that we have inheritance tax and CGT/Cat. There are significant bands in inheritance tax. This helps redistribute wealth across generations. I disagree with DIRT tax on principle and especially when interest rates are historically so low. It's nearly impossible to encourage ppl to save as it is... This needs to be looked at as we're spending a lot of what we could individually be saving. Collectively it's not good.

But over all our tax system is fair.

Idbatterim · 05-12-2018 10:10am

“Our taxation system is fair” I’m assuming you’re one of the vast majority not being hammered by income tax at the marginal rate?

Has Margaret cash and co collected their welfare bonus yet ? You know what the Christmas bonus is in the uk? Ten pounds, yes, ten pounds. If you don’t have it , don’t spend it!

stateofflux · 05-12-2018 10:27am

rn wrote: »

I'm going to disagree with op sentiment.

In general Ireland has a very progressive and transparent taxation system. I think that I disagree that those on low incomes pay 0 income tax and that highest earners still have some very limited loop holes. In general those who can afford to pay more, do. I do disagree with how property tax is calculated, however I'm not against it as a concept on principle. I don't like that we have three income tax types. I'd prefer if we brought up paye tax and just got rid of usc in one revenue neutral move.

We have very good consumption taxation system. It's right that we have such high taxes on oil consumption and we need to look at increasing these in the short term. It's right that we have such high taxes on cigarettes and alcohol. They are luxuries that have a negative impact on society.

On asset tax, it's good that we have inheritance tax and CGT/Cat. There are significant bands in inheritance tax. This helps redistribute wealth across generations. I disagree with DIRT tax on principle and especially when interest rates are historically so low. It's nearly impossible to encourage ppl to save as it is... This needs to be looked at as we're spending a lot of what we could individually be saving. Collectively it's not good.

But over all our tax system is fair.

Statistically you are wrong. when all stealth taxes & related services charges are factored in along with income tax bands Ireland is one of the most taxed countries in Europe..

In terms of proportionality i think you have a point but i disagree with you on transparency.

The differential is obvious when comparing Gross income to disposable income

cnocbui · 05-12-2018 10:35am

The OP wrote the post I have often felt like writing. I'm off too. Fed up with with taxation regime here, followed by the weather as a close second.

incentsitive · 05-12-2018 10:51am

I can't read all the above but the best alternative to Ireland is Qatar is the best laugh I've heard all day.

Personally I enjoy not having to have Dept of Foreign Affairs permission to leave the country, and freedom to move money internationally as I choose, but hey each to their own.

Lived abroad for a good few years, back home a couple of years ago, happy. Far away hills are always green.

I don't envy the OP though - given his trouble with English grammar, I can't fathom how he'll learn Arabic....

But good luck anyway and let us know how you get on, hopefully the state haven't blocked access to Boards.ie like they have to other stuff over there.

Why I am leaving Ireland in 2019

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