UN Migration Pact Ireland's Position?

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 1:30am

hill16bhoy wrote: »

i) Is the Daily Express a reputable source?
ii) Is the claim true?

I'll give you a hint on both counts - the answer is no.

The Daily Express sells little compared to the likes of the Mail, Sun, or Mirror. However it still greatly outsells the extreme left's news handbook i.e. the Guardian - which sells the very least of all daily national newspapers.

Q. Did you actually check the 2011 census for youself?
A. No.

The 'White British' classification only makes up 44.9% of all Londoners. So compared to all other enthicities combined (that are not white british), they would indeed appear to be technically outnumbered as such.

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 1:44am

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

The Daily Express sells little compared to the likes of the Mail, Sun, or Mirror. However it still greatly outsells the extreme left's news handbook i.e. the Guardian - which sells the very least of all daily national newspapers.

Q. Did you actually check the 2011 census for youself?
A. No.

The 'White British' classification only makes up 44.9% of all Londoners. So compared to all other enthicities combined (that are not white british), they would indeed appear to be technically outnumbered as such.

Ah, and now we cut to the chase.

Non-whites are not British now, apparently.

It's always, always, always the racism, stupid.

God, you guys are so easy to expose.

I didn't ask how much the Daily Express sold.

I asked whether it was a reputable source.

A quick dig into the "story" from it that was linked proves it isn't.

Redneck Culchie · 08-12-2018 1:48am

hill16bhoy wrote: »

I'm not a "Shinner", mate.

I'm not a member of any political party and have no fixed party loyalty - but nice attempt at a straw man.

You've just said 150 people turned up, and given that you have a heavy vested interest in bigging up the turnout, we can safely assume it was nowhere near that.

Even at your claimed upper limit of 150, it's utterly hilarious to see you claim that the "amount of ex-Sinn Fein voters" you met "was amazing".

You evidently have a very, very low amazement threshold.

Ah yes the typical "I'm not actually a Shinner" routine yet you post their rhetoric non stop. Why don't you fellas just admit you vote for Sinn Fein? Because you would have to stand over their nonsense. Easier to attack everyone else isn't it.

There was easily 150, maybe even 200 including people at the sides supporting us quietly. A number of republicans were present. Sinn Fein are more likely to wave the rainbow flag than the tricolour these days.

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 1:48am

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

Yep he is, can tell by his posting. He was attacking people for voting Casey in the last election. Even his name gives it away, a typical Celtic supporting Sinn Fein lout.

Woah, someone has lost the plot in a major, way, eh?

Haven't you?

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 1:49am

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

Ah yes the typical "I'm not actually a Shinner" routine yet you post their rhetoric non stop. Why don't you fellas just admit you vote for Sinn Fein? Because you would have to stand over their nonsense. Easier to attack everyone else isn't it.

There was easily 150, maybe even 200 including people at the sides supporting us quietly. A number of republicans were present. Sinn Fein are more likely to wave the rainbow flag than the tricolour these days.

Ah, the old gay bashing routine comes out.

It's never far away with the extreme right.

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 1:50am

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Non-whites are not British now, apparently.

Calm down dear, the census referes to 'ethnicity', the census doesn't care if you sing 'god song the ...' every morning or wave bunting.

It only cares what box (people themselves) actually tick on the census form. It only cares about hard data, stats and such.

If Hans from Holland, who lives in London wants to tick the Dutch box by himself, is that not allowed now?
Is he not allowed to identify to his heritage, must he become british as soon as he steps off his KLM flight?

Maybe post your crocadles tears in a glass jar, to their Office for National Statistics.

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 1:52am

RandomName2 wrote: »

And the Mail, Sputnik, RT, Sun, Breitbart, Fox. Is there anything else on the banned list?

Google it! For something that's common knowledge the onus is on you not to be lazy! Laziness does not excuse ignorance.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/census-reveals-white-britons-as-minority-in-capital-for-first-time-8405998.html
https://www.ft.com/content/4bd95562-4379-11e2-a48c-00144feabdc0
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-21511904
https://mangomap.com/demographics/maps
https://www.londonmedicine.ac.uk/londons-landscape/population/ethnicity-in-london/
http://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/london-population/
https://data.london.gov.uk/topic/demographics

Wait, is he a Sinn Fein guy? That would actually explain a lot.

Precisely none of that backs up what the poster Sand claimed.

Your claim, and his, is based on the entirely false and flagrantly racist premise that non-white people cannot be English or British.

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 1:54am

hill16bhoy wrote: »

non-white people cannot be English or British.

They can be whatever the choose to be, they tick the box that they identify to best, by themselves.

Sounds like you want to force people to become what YOU want them to be.

RobertKK · 08-12-2018 1:59am

Podge_irl wrote: »

What court? It would not be enshrined in Irish or European law.

There has been claims the UN migration pact could be used as a template for countries as part of their migration policy, I guess in this context.

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 1:59am

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

Calm down dear, the census referes to 'ethnicity', the census doesn't care if you sing 'god song the ...' every morning or wave bunting.

It only cares what box (people themselves) actually tick on the census form. It only cares about hard data, stats and such.

If Hans from Holland, who lives in London wants to tick the Dutch box by himself, is that not allowed now?
Is he not allowed to identify to his heritage, must he become british as soon as he steps of his KLM flight?

Maybe post your crocadles tears in a glass jar, to their Office for National Statistics.

The claim was made that English people are a minority in London.

This is disinformation. It is FALSE.

The claim was made on the basis that non-white people cannot be English, which I'm sure would amuse the many non-white Londoners.

I'm surprised you're telling me to calm down, given that I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the ethnic make up of the population of London.

You're one of several posters on this thread who very definitely do have a problem, you seem furious about it.

Who's the calm one again?

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 2:06am

hill16bhoy wrote: »

The claim was made that English people are a minority in London.

Who's the calm one again?

It's very highly likely in this case the other poster meant 'white english', or even muti-generational, traditional english.

Looking at the census, it does not ask directly if you are 'english' it is only interested in ethnicity. And 'white english' is a minority compared to all others combined.

You can be English-Indian, but the census doesn't even ask that.
It only has a tick box option for Indian.

It asks which ethnicity you are, not nationality or colour (aside from the white-british, white-other, or other-black options).

Write you concerns to the ONS.

DS86DS · 08-12-2018 2:06am

hill16bhoy wrote: »

The claim was made that English people are a minority in London.

This is disinformation. It is FALSE.

Article from 2013 stating white natives a minority in London.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-21511904

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 2:07am

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

They can be whatever the choose to be, they tick the box that they identify to best, by themselves.

Sounds like you want to force people to become what YOU want them to be.

This is what I wrote, mate.

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Ah, and now we cut to the chase.

Non-whites are not British now, apparently.

It's always, always, always the racism, stupid.

Please don't try and selectively edit my quotes like that to try and make it appear that I said something which is the direct opposite of what I said.

It's utterly pathetic, and sadly utterly predictable from the extreme right.

And very ironic, given that you clearly hold the sort of disgusting view that you were trying to mendaciously ascribe to me.

DS86DS · 08-12-2018 2:09am

hill16bhoy wrote: »

This is what I wrote, mate.

Please don't try and selectively edit my quotes like that to try and make it appear that I said something which is the direct opposite of what I said.

It's utterly pathetic, and sadly utterly predictable from the extreme right.

And very ironic, given that you clearly hold the sort of disgusting view that you were trying to mendaciously ascribe to me.

Extreme Right this........ Extreme Right that..,.........bla bla bla......... racist........ extreme

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 2:10am

Hillboy maybe consult the ONS procedure for compiling their Census, and take a chill pill, else lie-down in a non-colour specific room.

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 2:13am

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

It's very highly likely in this case the other poster meant 'white english', or even muti-generational, traditional english.

This is what the poster wrote.

In London the English have already become a minority in their own capital

I know exactly what that means. It's right there in front of you. It's clear in its meaning.

And I haven't selectively edited it either to take it out of context to make it appear they were saying something else, as you just did to me above.

The quoted claim is false. It is disinformation. Spreading disinformation is what the far right do.

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 2:15am

DS86DS wrote: »

Article from 2013 stating white natives a minority in London.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-21511904

And there's another poster who believes if you're not white, you can't be English.

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 2:17am

hill16bhoy wrote: »

This is what the poster wrote.

Yes, and likely he/she implied 'english' in the traditional sense, and as used by the ONS.

The Indian man in London certainly can be English (or more likely, 'British'), but when it comes to filling in census forms and official documents, when asked about 'ethnicity' he would have 'no other choice', but to tick the 'indian' box.

The fact remains, 'british-whites' are an ethnic minority (under 50%), along with all other ethnic minorities (all also under 50%) in London.

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 2:17am

DS86DS wrote: »

Extreme Right this........ Extreme Right that..,.........bla bla bla......... racist........ extreme

And I've been proven thoroughly correct.

DS86DS · 08-12-2018 2:21am

hill16bhoy wrote: »

And I've been proven thoroughly correct.

And those of us "Far Right", simply referred to as nationalists in times past are more than thoroughly correct.

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/sep/26/muslim-majority-in-france-projected-in-40-years/

Thank you very much "enlightened" leftists. The whole of Europe, having survived thousands of years of wars and invasions......all to be confined to the dustbin of history thanks to people like you

Enjoy been a smug liberal lefty when then punishment for theft is for a hand to be chopped off....or the punishment for homosexuality is to be thrown off a roof.

You'll get very far under Sharia Law, your so arrogantly confident of that fact.

Redneck Culchie · 08-12-2018 2:35am

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Ah, the old gay bashing routine comes out.

It's never far away with the extreme right.

Extreme right bla bla. Is Arthur Griffith the founder of Sinn Fein extreme right in your eyes? Do you even know who he is?

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 2:45am

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

Extreme right bla bla. Is Arthur Griffith the founder of Sinn Fein extreme right in your eyes? Do you even know who he is?

Is he the lad that owns a park up in Lucan?

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 2:46am

DS86DS wrote: »

And those of us "Far Right", simply referred to as nationalists in times past are more than thoroughly correct.

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/sep/26/muslim-majority-in-france-projected-in-40-years/

Thank you very much "enlightened" leftists. The whole of Europe, having survived thousands of years of wars and invasions......all to be confined to the dustbin of history thanks to people like you

Enjoy been a smug liberal lefty when then punishment for theft is for a hand to be chopped off....or the punishment for homosexuality is to be thrown off a roof.

You'll get very far under Sharia Law, your so arrogantly confident of that fact.

"Sharia Law".

Yeah, you don't sound like a paranoid fantasist, or anything.

Redneck Culchie · 08-12-2018 2:50am

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Is he the lad that owns a park up in Lucan?

You really are dumb as a brick and proud of it. Your username and political affiliation checks out.

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 3:16am

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

You really are dumb as a brick and proud of it. Your username and political affiliation checks out.

No. I'm definitely not. :pac:

It's sad to have to explain this, but I threw in a deliberately sarcastic answer there to annoy you. At this stage, you don't deserve to be taken seriously.

Please do keep trying to second guess my political affiliations, though, by all means.

I'll just say one more thing to you - not all Celtic supporters or people who go to Hill 16 are "Shinners". I have voted for them in the past, as I have for several broadly left-aligned parties, but am unlikely to do so next time - I'll probably vote Green, or perhaps Social Democrat.

Though I'm not in the least surprised at your paucity of imagination.

DS86DS · 08-12-2018 6:28am

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

You really are dumb as a brick and proud of it. Your username and political affiliation checks out.

As another Dubs supporter, I'd like to apologise to the rest of the country on behalf of idiots like him.

You see, unlike other parts of the country where football and hurling are the lifeblood of the community.......... unfortunately in Dublin we have many idiots who support Dublin because it's currently trendy to do so.

It's like those parents in well-to-do areas who call their sons and daughters the most Gaelic name they could find in the lifestyle section of the Irish Times.........and send their kids to Irish speaking schools and ensure that little Fionn and Sorcha get involved in the local GAA club...

... because their "mum" would be loike totes morto if all the other neighbours kids are involved and theirs isn't.

Funnily enough it's the same crowd that would give out yards to anybody for pointing out that Irish rugby doesn't play the national anthem like all other sports, bar perhaps cricket or something like that.

It's why in Dublin, a large modern city overrun with trendies.....we have unusual cases like hill16bhoy who insists on his pride in his county.....yet within the same paragraph, berate anybody who is proud of been Irish and wants to keep his or her country Irish.

It's insincere.....and following the Dubs for such people is the "in thing"....so they'll jump on board. It's not like the rest of the country and in small communities in particular, where football is the lifeblood of the community.......or where pride in nation and heritage are an important part of one's life and Identity.

No doubt, a trip to Hill 16 is a side activity for hill16bhoy in between a bout of yoga......and a coffee evening with the local yuppies.

He likes to put himself across as a salt-of-the-earth True Blue Dub......but he is anything but.

Captain Obvious · 08-12-2018 11:19am

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

Yes, and likely he/she implied 'english' in the traditional sense, and as used by the ONS.

The Indian man in London certainly can be English (or more likely, 'British'), but when it comes to filling in census forms and official documents, when asked about 'ethnicity' he would have 'no other choice', but to tick the 'indian' box.

The fact remains, 'british-whites' are an ethnic minority (under 50%), along with all other ethnic minorities (all also under 50%) in London.

The fact remains that 63% of people in London were born in the UK and a further 24.5% born in Europe. That information is available in the same census. With that in mind, the claim that English are a minority in their own capital is completely false.

What you have chosen to do is deliberately exclude all ethnicities other than white people born in England. There is no justification for this other than outright racism. You have effectively said that non-whites aren't really British because you don't see them on a par with white people.

RandomName2 · 08-12-2018 11:28am

Captain Obvious wrote: »

The fact remains that 63% of people in London were born in the UK and a further 24.5% born in Europe. That information is available in the same census. With that in mind, the claim that English are a minority in their own capital is completely false.

I should have looked at my own sources more closely (I didn't look at them at all in actuality). The number of non-citizens in London is significantly under half the population.

Quin_Dub · 08-12-2018 11:28am

The quality of posting here from multiple posters in the last 24hrs or so is well below standard.

Up the standards or cards/bans will be next up.

Thanks

Captain Obvious · 08-12-2018 11:37am

RandomName2 wrote: »

I should have looked at more own sources more closely (I didn't look at them at all in actuality). The number of non-citizens in London is significantly under half the population.

What are you basing this on though? The 2011 census says 63% were born in the UK. Are you saying the citizenship rate is much lower than this?

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 12:02pm

DS86DS wrote: »

As another Dubs supporter, I'd like to apologise to the rest of the country on behalf of idiots like him.

You see, unlike other parts of the country where football and hurling are the lifeblood of the community.......... unfortunately in Dublin we have many idiots who support Dublin because it's currently trendy to do so.

It's like those parents in well-to-do areas who call their sons and daughters the most Gaelic name they could find in the lifestyle section of the Irish Times.........and send their kids to Irish speaking schools and ensure that little Fionn and Sorcha get involved in the local GAA club...

... because their "mum" would be loike totes morto if all the other neighbours kids are involved and theirs isn't.

Funnily enough it's the same crowd that would give out yards to anybody for pointing out that Irish rugby doesn't play the national anthem like all other sports, bar perhaps cricket or something like that.

It's why in Dublin, a large modern city overrun with trendies.....we have unusual cases like hill16bhoy who insists on his pride in his county.....yet within the same paragraph, berate anybody who is proud of been Irish and wants to keep his or her country Irish.

It's insincere.....and following the Dubs for such people is the "in thing"....so they'll jump on board. It's not like the rest of the country and in small communities in particular, where football is the lifeblood of the community.......or where pride in nation and heritage are an important part of one's life and Identity.

No doubt, a trip to Hill 16 is a side activity for hill16bhoy in between a bout of yoga......and a coffee evening with the local yuppies.

He likes to put himself across as a salt-of-the-earth True Blue Dub......but he is anything but.

I've been going regularly to Dublin football and hurling matches, home and away, League, O'Byrne Cup etc., and football and hurling matches involving other counties and clubs, since 1986, mate.

I've played football and hurling for club, school and college, and played in Croke Park.

I've forgotten more about the GAA than you could ever learn in a lifetime.

Do try and open your mind. The level of neuroticism and paranoia displayed in your post here is both hilarious and frightening.

Frankly, I expect it's the sort of neuroticism that would make it very difficult for a person to function in any way normally.

batgoat · 08-12-2018 2:04pm

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

The Daily Express sells little compared to the likes of the Mail, Sun, or Mirror. However it still greatly outsells the extreme left's news handbook i.e. the Guardian - which sells the very least of all daily national newspapers.

Q. Did you actually check the 2011 census for youself?
A. No.

The 'White British' classification only makes up 44.9% of all Londoners. So compared to all other enthicities combined (that are not white british), they would indeed appear to be technically outnumbered as such.

Why does this matter? The UK has generations of non white people, many from countries that they colonised. Non white British are as British as anyone else.

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

It's very highly likely in this case the other poster meant 'white english', or even muti-generational, traditional english.

Looking at the census, it does not ask directly if you are 'english' it is only interested in ethnicity. And 'white english' is a minority compared to all others combined.

You can be English-Indian, but the census doesn't even ask that.
It only has a tick box option for Indian.

It asks which ethnicity you are, not nationality or colour (aside from the white-british, white-other, or other-black options).

Write you concerns to the ONS.

So basically it's not significant at all as I'm guessing regardless of ethnic background, the percentage that are British citizens is much higher than 44% because plenty of those people have been born and raised in England.

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 2:21pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What you have chosen to do is ....

What you have choosen to do is ignore the official ONS statistics, to suit your own agenda, and resort to stereotyping and name calling anyone that disagrees with you. Shameful, but expected behaviour.

Data is data, it doesn't have an opinion, don't try to falsify or twist it to suit your own ideals or agenda.

If you have a problem with the 2011 census for London, address your concerns with the folks that design the questions, process and compile it.

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 2:24pm

batgoat wrote: »

Why does this matter?

Doesn't matter, it's simply data that is all it is.
The sky is blue, that's what it is.

Captain Obvious · 08-12-2018 2:49pm

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

What you have choosen to do is ignore the official ONS statistics, to suit your own agenda, and resort to stereotyping and name calling anyone that disagrees with you. Shameful, but expected behaviour.

Data is data, it doesn't have an opinion, don't try to falsify or twist it to suit your own ideals or agenda.

If you have a problem with the 2011 census for London, address your concerns with the folks that design the questions, process and compile it.

I haven't ignored anything. The claim was that English people in London are a minority. You then supported this claim by posting census data showing white British people are a minority in London. So either you didn't read fully the post you were supporting or you don't consider non-whites to be English.

batgoat · 08-12-2018 2:50pm

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

Doesn't matter, it's simply data that is all it is.
The sky is blue, that's what it is.

I am pointing out that plenty of those non white people are as British as anyone else. Not disputing the stats, merely pointing out that they have nothing to do with the topic and has more to do with an ethnic mix that isn't a new aspect to Britain.

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 2:55pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I haven't ignored anything. The claim was that English people in London are a minority. You then supported this claim by posting census data showing white British people are a minority in London. So either you didn't read fully the post you were supporting or you don't consider non-whites to be English.

It was fairly obvious the other poster was implying the traditional native white english type, as is shown in the census data.

It's generally accepted that black, indian or other will classify themselves as e.g. 'british'-indian (if there is an option to do so {there isn't on the census form, just indian}, and they wish to). Very, very rarely as 'english-indian'.

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 2:58pm

batgoat wrote: »

I am pointing out that plenty of those non white people are as British as anyone else. Not disputing the stats, merely pointing out that they have nothing to do with the topic and has more to do with an ethnic mix that isn't a new aspect to Britain.

Would agree, many are happy to be classed as 'british', but very rarely as 'english'.

The other poster by refrencing 'english' was clearly implying the traditional notion otherwise would have used the more encompassing term of 'british'.

The Census shows that both 'white-engish' and/or 'white-british' are a minority in London i.e. under 50%, that is all.

Captain Obvious · 08-12-2018 3:07pm

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

It was fairly obvious the other poster was implying the traditional native white english type, as is shown in the census data.

It's generally accepted that black, indian or other will classify themselves as e.g. 'british'-indian (if there is an option to do so {there isn't on the census form, just indian}, and they wish to). Very, very rarely as 'english-indian'.

It may well have been what he meant but it's not what he said. If you exclude people from a nationality because of their ethnicity then you are racist. Simple as. Three of you have done that so far. The fact remains that there is no evidence English people are not a minority in London unless you exclude non-white English people.

batgoat · 08-12-2018 3:12pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It may well have been what he meant but it's not what he said. If you exclude people from a nationality because of their ethnicity then you are racist. Simple as. Three of you have done that so far. The fact remains that there is no evidence English people are not a minority in London unless you exclude non-white English people.

Yep, same stat actually shows 37% of those living in London were born outside of the UK... So most people in London are British...

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 3:16pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It may well have been what he meant but it's not what he said. If you exclude people from a nationality because of their ethnicity then you are racist. Simple as. Three of you have done that so far. The fact remains that there is no evidence English people are not a minority in London unless you exclude non-white English people.

To anyone with an ounce of obvious sense of course it is what was he meant.

Again, many people of other ethnicities would never class themselves as english, but certainly perhaps with a british- prefix.

By your twisted judgement you are calling the Office for National Statistics a racist organisation, that reeks somewhat of sheer desperation.

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 3:20pm

batgoat wrote: »

So most people in London are British...

But what type of British, as according to the ONS and the Census the majority are not white-british in London.

Yes many, many may well be indian-british, or afro caribbean-british (even if born in the UK).

When the Census asks the question, they don't have a catch-all tick box when asking individuals what they consider their ethnicity to be, do they.

Captain Obvious · 08-12-2018 3:24pm

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

To anyone with an ounce of obvious sense of course it is what was he meant.

Again, many people of other ethnicities would never class themselves as english, but certainly perhaps with a british- prefix.

By your twisted judgement you are calling the Office for National Statistics a racist organisation, that reeks somewhat of sheer desperation.

I've no issue with the stats. They show that the majority of people living in London were born in the UK.

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 3:25pm

It would be interesting to know whether English descendants of Irish immigrants are counted as "English" by certain posters here.

Say, for example, John Lydon aka Johnny Rotten of The Sex Pistols. Father from Tuam, mother from Cork.

Similarly with the Gallaghers of Oasis. Father from Meath, mother from Mayo.

I have a funny feeling very few would question their Englishness or Britishness.

batgoat · 08-12-2018 3:33pm

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

But what type of British, as according to the ONS and the Census the majority are not white-british in London.

Yes many, many may well be indian-british, or afro caribbean-british (even if born in the UK).

When the Census asks the question, they don't have a catch-all tick box when asking individuals what they consider their ethnicity to be, do they.

Yep but once again irrelevant. The poster even already said they were mistaken so I'm not sure why you're fighting this point.

Sand · 08-12-2018 10:07pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It may well have been what he meant but it's not what he said. If you exclude people from a nationality because of their ethnicity then you are racist. Simple as. Three of you have done that so far. The fact remains that there is no evidence English people are not a minority in London unless you exclude non-white English people.

English people are a nation, an ethnic group which emerged in the early medieval period and which are descended from both Celtic Britons and the Germanic tribes which entered the country with the fall of the Roman Empire and those who have merged with that ethnic group since then.

English identity is distinct from the imperialist/multi-national British identity. Recognising the English as a distinct ethnic group does not deny anyone their British passport or British identity.

The ethnic English are a minority within their own capital. Birmingham will shortly follow and no doubt in more and more towns and cities in the next decade or two. That dramatic demographic shift has occurred in just two generations, due to mass migration and declining birth rates.

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 10:14pm

hill16bhoy wrote: »

It would be interesting to know whether English descendants of Irish immigrants are counted as "English" by certain posters here.

Johnny Rotten.... Oasis.

I have a funny feeling very few would question their Englishness or Britishness.

They may well class themselves as either 'white-english', or 'white-other' on the census form, even if born there to Irish parents.

That clearly demonstrates the sheer 'ease of assimilation' of celtic-germanic Europeans, esp. the Irish within Britian.

Compare that to the slow and painful integration of other cultures, which may not even speak a word of English or have any prior interest or shared cultural experiences of the land of Britian.

hill16bhoy · 08-12-2018 10:22pm

Dallas Thousands Ammonia wrote: »

They may well class themselves as either 'white-english', or 'white-other' on the census form, even if born there to Irish parents.

That clearly demonstrates the sheer 'ease of assimilation' of celtic-germanic Europeans, esp. the Irish within Britian.

Compare that to the slow and painful integration of other cultures, which may not even speak a word of English or have any prior interest or shared cultural experiences of the land of Britian.

You're really struggling to answer a simple question here.

I didn't ask you for more flagrant racism which is utterly ignorant of the historical treatment of Irish people in Britain.

I asked are Lydon and the Gallaghers English?

Why can't you give a straight answer instead of trying to deflect?

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 10:29pm

hill16bhoy wrote: »

I asked are Lydon and the Gallaghers English?

Why can't you give a straight answer instead of trying to deflect?

Are they, have you asked them personally? They could well be, it's indeed likely or probable they may consider themselves to be.

I didn't ask for you flagrant racism upon the english, which is utterly ignorant of the current treatment (not historical attitudes, many generations ago) of Irish people in Britain. Shame on you.

If they (theselves) consider themselves to be, that clearly demonstrates the sheer 'ease of assimilation' of celtic-germanic Europeans, esp. the Irish within Britian.

Compare that to the slow and painful integration of other cultures, which may not even speak a word of English or have any prior interest or shared cultural experiences of the land of Britian.

4068ac1elhodqr · 08-12-2018 10:33pm

hill16bhoy wrote: »

the historical treatment of Irish people in Britain.

Do you still carry hate in your heart against them, sure why can't we all live in peace, it's 2018.

UN Migration Pact Ireland's Position?

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