US Open 2018

Joe_ Public · 08-09-2018 11:50pm

mickmackey1 wrote: »

That 24-slam record is hanging like a millstone around Serena's neck, didn't think she would be so nerve-riddled in these last two finals. Quite entertaining though I must say :pac:

Don’t see her beating 24. Maybe one more is possible but that would be her lot I’d say and have my doubts about even that much. Osaka looks the real deal and still have my suspicions Sabalenka could emerge the better player. Others will start to fancy they can beat her too.

Chivito550 · 08-09-2018 11:53pm

jamescd wrote: »

Spot on, but it was the other way round

I never said who would win.

Johnmb · 08-09-2018 11:59pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Don’t see her beating 24. Maybe one more is possible but that would be her lot I’d say and have my doubts about even that much. Osaka looks the real deal and still have my suspicions Sabalenka could emerge the better player. Others will start to fancy they can beat her too.

I just hope that the disgraceful crowd don't cause any issues for Osaka in the future. Things like that can play on the mind, and cause distractions in pressure situations if she gets there again. If she comes out of it stronger, then she could become a multiple time slam champion, but if it gets to her, she may have been screwed out of a great future by a classless crowd...

walshb · 09-09-2018 12:00am

Chivito550 wrote: »

I never said who would win.

You lucky bastid...😊

Williams really is a horrible sport...

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2018 12:06am

Johnmb wrote: »

I just hope that the disgraceful crowd don't cause any issues for Osaka in the future. Things like that can play on the mind, and cause distractions in pressure situations if she gets there again. If she comes out of it stronger, then she could become a multiple time slam champion, but if it gets to her, she may have been screwed out of a great future by a classless crowd...

Don’t have any fears for her personally. Her composure through the whole thing was very admirable and impressive. She just looks so solid and fearless, you couldn’t have guessed that was her maiden slam final if you didn’t know. Have no doubt more are going to follow.

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2018 12:07am

Chivito550 wrote: »

I never said who would win.

Hope you were on the reverse forecast

Royale with Cheese · 09-09-2018 12:14am

Her coach admits to the press to coaching her while at the same time Serena is giving a press conference saying they never do on court coaching. The coach then goes on twitter to drum up support for some long running umpiring conspiracy against Serena. Serena then tries to bring a sexism angle into again in the press conference, well after the heat of the moment when she's had a chance to actually think about what she's saying.

I'm upgrading this one from car crash to train wreck.

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2018 12:19am

Just watching a few snippets of her press conference. It’s actually just pure comedy gold at this stage, nobody can take this stuff seriously. The journalists clapping her at the end are a real credit to their profession.

Niles Crane · 09-09-2018 12:25am

Williams has no defence, her coach admitting he was coaching therefore regardless of how harsh some people think the first penalty was it turns out to be 100% spot on.

Ramos is the same umpire who docked Djokovic a first serve at the french open in 2017 for taking too long between points.

He doesn't seem to be afraid of making big calls.

Niles Crane · 09-09-2018 12:27am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Just watching a few snippets of her press conference. It’s actually just pure comedy gold at this stage, nobody can take this stuff seriously. The journalists clapping her at the end are a real credit to their profession.

That's american sports "journalism" for you, they're more interested in the narrative rather than the facts and this will be gold for them as they push so many different inaccurate angles from this incident and make a big story about it and portray Serena Williams as a hero.

JustJoe7240 · 09-09-2018 12:27am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Just watching a few snippets of her press conference. It’s actually just pure comedy gold at this stage, nobody can take this stuff seriously. The journalists clapping her at the end are a real credit to their profession.

You hardly have a link handy?

yerwanthere123 · 09-09-2018 12:31am

Serena trying to push the sexism angle is pathetic. Surely won't be long before race is brought into it now.

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2018 12:36am

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

You hardly have a link handy?

https://mobile.twitter.com/CamCox12/status/1038558762376679425/video/1

That’s the end bit anyway. I’d agree with her about the Alize Cornet shirt thing, that was ridiculous but has the sweet sum of F... all to do with what happened tonight.

Royale with Cheese · 09-09-2018 12:41am

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Serena trying to push the sexism angle is pathetic. Surely won't be long before race is brought into it now.

I can't say I've ever particularly liked her but after tonight and the above part in particular, I could only describe her as an odious human being. I think she even threw in an "I would never cheat because I have a daughter" in there are some stage.

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2018 12:51am

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

I can't say I've ever particularly liked her but after tonight and the above part in particular, I could only describe her as an odious human being. I think she even threw in an "I would never cheat because I have a daughter" in there are some stage.

Did you miss her threatening to ram a tennis ball down the throat of a poor lineswoman who had the temerity to call a footfault on her around 7-8 years back? Tonight was fairly dramatic for sure but hardly out of character. There was the “your a horrible person inside” episode too. Not just the men out to get Serena over the course of her career it seems, that’s just tonight’s angle.

BorneTobyWilde · 09-09-2018 1:00am

Never heard of her, is this a shock

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2018 1:06am

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Never heard of her, is this a shock

Bit of a one but not of seismic proportions, 3 or 4 on Richter scale maybe. There were doubts about Williams and a few gave the talented Osaka a chance.

yerwanthere123 · 09-09-2018 1:14am

When all this dies down, I do hope it'll be Osaka's victory that'll be remembered. She outplayed Serena for the entire match, and was a set and a break up before the game penalty. At the end of the day, I don't think many look back upon Clijsters 2009 victory and think of it as hollow or undeserved, and I'm sure the same will be true for Naomi in time.

Rikand · 09-09-2018 1:31am

Niles Crane wrote: »

That's american sports "journalism" for you, they're more interested in the narrative rather than the facts and this will be gold for them as they push so many different inaccurate angles from this incident and make a big story about it and portray Serena Williams as a hero.

Alternate Facts is what its all about over there

SlickRic · 09-09-2018 7:23am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

The mask slips once again.

It slips all of the time.

I get slated regularly by tennis aficionados for thinking for the last 15 years that she's an insufferable yoke. I'm.told I'm sore because she's so dominant. It's bull****.

She regularly gives feign credit to opponents.
She regularly wins and talks about how poorly she played.
She's regularly smug.
She regularly gives excuses.

This motherhood, and this match have made it obvious to any doubters what she is actually like.

She's not a feminist.
She's not representing anyone.

She's a brilliant, once-in-a-generation tennis player who happens to be a horrible person.

KaiserGunner · 09-09-2018 8:49am

I mistakenly searched for Serena Williams on Twitter there. According to the large majority (many were verified journalist accounts) you are both sexist and racist if you disagree with Serena Williams or in any way criticise her behaviour last night. :rolleyes: Some of them accusing the umpire of sexism. :rolleyes:
I’d like to say I’m surprised, but I’m really not these days.

Royale with Cheese · 09-09-2018 9:01am

Yeah I had a quick dig through twitter this morning, really do yourself a favour and don't go near it. The amount of people who've fully bought the victim/sexist angle is just staggering.

Harry Palmr · 09-09-2018 9:05am

I liked the way she tapped into the spirit of Harry Kane! :pac:

Terrible person, like many high achievers Williams is borderline sociopath.

Johnmb · 09-09-2018 10:03am

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

When all this dies down, I do hope it'll be Osaka's victory that'll be remembered. She outplayed Serena for the entire match, and was a set and a break up before the game penalty. At the end of the day, I don't think many look back upon Clijsters 2009 victory and think of it as hollow or undeserved, and I'm sure the same will be true for Naomi in time.

An even that game penalty was an Osaka service game. Given how she had been serving, and how she served out for the match, there's no reason to think she wouldn't have held comfortably had Serena not started that clusterfcuk of a situation to begin with.

SlickRic · 09-09-2018 10:09am

KaiserGunner wrote: »

I mistakenly searched for Serena Williams on Twitter there. According to the large majority (many were verified journalist accounts) you are both sexist and racist if you disagree with Serena Williams or in any way criticise her behaviour last night. :rolleyes: Some of them accusing the umpire of sexism. :rolleyes:
I’d like to say I’m surprised, but I’m really not these days.

You must remember this is the era where women are always right unless it's beyond reasonable doubt, and men are always wrong unless it's beyond reasonable doubt.

shamrock55 · 09-09-2018 10:12am

Serena deserved her penalty's, she complained a little about the annitial point at first and went on to lose that game,it was only after the next game when Osaka broke her did she really lose the plot knowing then that she was just getting her ass handed to her.
She was utterly pathetic at the ceremony making it all about her and don't get me started on the "its cos I'm a woman" thing
She's gone from hero to absolute zero while Osaka god love her was absolute class all the way

lostcat · 09-09-2018 10:21am

Ok, so I'm hiding behind the couch, but I think Ramos was too severe in giving her the game penalty without a warning, the stakes were too high at that stage of the match. I'm not defending Williams behavior on any way, but Ramos umpired a lot of nadals matches over the years without a single coaching violation, so, as I said last night, Williams was entitled to be a bit pissed. Loosing it totally was not acceptable.

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2018 10:31am

lostcat wrote: »

Ok, so I'm hiding behind the couch, but I think Ramos was too severe in giving her the game penalty without a warning, the stakes were too high at that stage of the match. I'm not defending Williams behavior on any way, but Ramos umpired a lot of nadals matches over the years without a single coaching violation, so, as I said last night, Williams was entitled to be a bit pissed. Loosing it totally was not acceptable.

That’s not exactly true about Nadal anyway. Williams was actually 3-1 ahead in the second set when this all kicked off. She was still ahead when the penalty point was issued. She chose the path she did and has to own the consequences. It’s interesting that all her worst behavior over the years comes at Flushing Meadows. Wonder why that is. Would she have tried the same cr@p at Roland Garros for example?

Niles Crane · 09-09-2018 10:47am

lostcat wrote: »

Ok, so I'm hiding behind the couch, but I think Ramos was too severe in giving her the game penalty without a warning, the stakes were too high at that stage of the match. I'm not defending Williams behavior on any way, but Ramos umpired a lot of nadals matches over the years without a single coaching violation, so, as I said last night, Williams was entitled to be a bit pissed. Loosing it totally was not acceptable.

She got a warning for receiving coaching, Patrick Moratolgu admitted he was coaching her during the game so this warning was 100% justified.

She then received a second penalty (point deduction) for smashing her racket which is against the rules and is very black and white rule so the umpire had no option to not apply the penalty for racket abuse.

She then continued to abuse the referee constantly after this, her being docked a game wasn't for one instance of abuse to was for continuous abuse for quite a decent part of the second set, if she had just had a go at him and then got on with it I doubt she would have been given a 3rd offence and thus lost a game.She also called the ref a thief which is a bit much as it is really big no no in any sport to outwardly question the integrity of an official and claim he was trying to steal something from you.

People could argue that the first warning for coaching was a little harsh but Patrick Moratoglu shouldn't have been coaching her and he admitted he was which tells you that if her coach isn't even going to defend himself/her from this penalty that it was a pretty justified call.

Lots of players have received warnings over the years but they tend to deal with them in a more mature fashion and get on with it, part of me thinks she knew she was going to lose and decided to throw a strop so it couldn't be considered a proper defeat.

Her bringing sexism into it is disgraceful but of course she won't be called out for it by anyone and it just shows you how difficult the world is these days when every slight against a woman is seen as being sexist and loads of people (women in particular) seem to be backing her up on the sexism angle.Proper feminists must be appalled with what has happened to the feminism movement in the last decade.

09-09-2018 10:51am

Anytime I see outbursts on court, I always recall McEnroe in the early 80s’s. Howver, years later in interviews he was more than willing to admit that a lot of it was for show and to put off his opponent.

Ever since he’s admitted that I am always dubious when players go on like this.

IMO, she was outclassed and couldn’t take the embarrassment - she couldn’t blame her opponent obviously so she developed a tantrum and an excuse- pathetic individual.

SlickRic · 09-09-2018 11:10am

lostcat wrote: »

Ok, so I'm hiding behind the couch, but I think Ramos was too severe in giving her the game penalty without a warning, the stakes were too high at that stage of the match. I'm not defending Williams behavior on any way, but Ramos umpired a lot of nadals matches over the years without a single coaching violation, so, as I said last night, Williams was entitled to be a bit pissed. Loosing it totally was not acceptable.

You can only really argue with the 1st violation IMO, and even then it's tenuous - as in she didn't see the coaching, so didn't benefit. But by the letter of the law, Ramos was right.

The racket smash was inarguable. It's always a code violation.

At that point, and professional sportsperson would be told to just keep your mouth shut. Male or female. But Serena didn't. She threatened that he'd never sit on one of her matches again (i.e. I'm bigger than you or the sport). She called him a thief, essentially telling him he was cheating. She also invokes her motherhood as a reason she wouldn't cheat.

People can talk to me about sexism in the sport, and it does exist.
People can point to her poor roots.
People can point to the constant racism she encountered on the way up the game.

These are all reasons why she acts the way she does. Why she tells a ballboy she'll ram a ball down his throat. Why she loses her mind over over a (correct) foot fault call. Why she melted down when she was about to lose anyway to Sam Stosur in 2011.

There are reasons she is the way she is.

But the fact is she's a sociopath, and that shouldn't ever be entertained.

jr86 · 09-09-2018 11:11am

I'll never forget at Wimbledon against Watson a few years back, a player she should be beating 6-2 6-2 at worst, and her roaring over at Watson with a fist pump to celebrate pretty much every point. Imagine Federer doing that v James Ward or someone on Centre Court, essentially walking up to the net and roaring in his direction to celebrate levelling a game at 15-15. And to be honest that is a completely mild example of her behavior

Success can't buy class, that's for sure

MisterAnarchy · 09-09-2018 11:18am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

IMO, she was outclassed and couldn’t take the embarrassment - she couldn’t blame her opponent obviously so she developed a tantrum and an excuse- pathetic individual.

I don't think she was outclassed in either of the last two finals. She just played rubbish tennis and was paralysed by nerves.
She always had an issue with nerves but it seems to have gotten much worse.
She could barely move in the final at Wimbledon.

That frustration with herself caused the melt down.
Osaka wouldn't get a set off Williams of old.

jr86 · 09-09-2018 11:23am

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Osaka wouldn't get a set off Williams of old.

But its not the Williams of old is it, so that is completely irrelevant in relation to her (completely deserving) win last night

jr86 · 09-09-2018 11:28am

SlickRic wrote: »

She threatened that he'd never sit on one of her matches again (i.e. I'm bigger than you or the sport). She called him a thief, essentially telling him he was cheating.

I remember Dylan Hartley calling the ref a f**ing cheat in a rugby match before and he was sent straight off. And you know what else? Every other player and coach got on with the game as if nothing had happened, without any hint of a complaint or protest. Tremendous respect for officials in Rugby which sadly has never transferred to tennis. Player meltdowns against chair umpires often go viral online as if its some sort of badge of honour and the player is a 'legend' for being so passionate

On another note, does anyone remember that absolute bizarre performance by Williams in a Doubles match at Wimbledon a few years back where she seemed to literally melt down and even her sister looked aghast. Even when she's not having a go at someone, she has exhibited some very strange behvaiour through the years

walshb · 09-09-2018 11:30am

Deleted User wrote: »

Anytime I see outbursts on court, I always recall McEnroe in the early 80s’s. Howver, years later in interviews he was more than willing to admit that a lot of it was for show and to put off his opponent.

Ever since he’s admitted that I am always dubious when players go on like this.

IMO, she was outclassed and couldn’t take the embarrassment - she couldn’t blame her opponent obviously so she developed a tantrum and an excuse- pathetic individual.

Mac was another horrible sport.....

walshb · 09-09-2018 11:31am

She has brought the game into disrepute and should not be let away with it..

The officials are the sport. They are men and women like us all, doing their best for everyone involved, and they deserve respect..

No real surprise. Over the years there has been a steady erosion of standards, manners and class in every walk of life..

anthonyjmaher · 09-09-2018 11:38am

jr86 wrote: »

I remember Dylan Hartley calling the ref a f**ing cheat in a rugby match before and he was sent straight off.

Yeah that was Wayne Barnes, and that was in the premiership final 2013, just before half time. A key moment in the game. Very ballsy decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7sSz_Vsi8

As was said above, Serena has always been a terrible sport. She completely spoiled the whole thing on what should have been a magnificent occasion for her young and humble opponent. I think you could understand it if she hadn't never won anything, in the way that I used to cut golfer Sergio Garcia a break when he was badly behaved in the past. But Serena has won SO much, and yet is still so begrudging and mean spiritied when somebody beats her. And this reflects very badly on her.

And it seems like the media are terrified of calling her on her bad behaviour because of her being black and female. That press conference was like a parallel universe.

Brussels Sprout · 09-09-2018 11:40am

I looked forward to the inevitable open letter from her husband telling her that she was 100% right and that the umpire was out to get her because he was jealous of how great a mother and wife she is.

Niles Crane · 09-09-2018 11:56am

walshb wrote: »

Mac was another horrible sport.....

He was but at least he seems like a pretty decent individual in general and has a sense of humour about himself , something you can't really say about Serena Williams.

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2018 11:59am

walshb wrote: »

She has brought the game into disrepute and should not be let away with it..

The officials are the sport. They are men and women like us all, doing their best for everyone involved, and they deserve respect..

No real surprise. Over the years there has been a steady erosion of standards, manners and class in every walk of life..

Will be interesting to see what further action is taken. Tempting for the WTA to fudge it, given the nature of the coverage and Serena largely dictating the narrative, my bet would be on a insignificant fine accompanied by a statement outlining what a great player, mother and role model she is blah blah blah....however we have to protect officials and cannot tolerate etc etc.

I'm not sure about this erosion of standards you're referencing, are things better/worse/the same as they have always been? Seems to me some sports have got to grips with low toleration of boorish behaviour better than others. I remember reading about the Irish badminton guy Scott Evans a few years ago and how he nearly got thrown out of the sport for abuse of an official. There has got to be a zero tolerance approach regarding abusing of referees and other officials and that message has to seep through.

walshb · 09-09-2018 12:04pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

He was but at least he seems like a pretty decent individual in general and has a sense of humour about himself , something you can't really say about Serena Williams.

Agreed. Kind of guy you could approach and chat with...

Serena comes across as boorish, rude and very aloof..

Wasn’t it Martin Brundle on one his grid walks who was totally blanked be her in a very rude way....

MisterAnarchy · 09-09-2018 12:18pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I liked the way she tapped into the spirit of Harry Kane! :pac:

Terrible person, like many high achievers Williams is borderline sociopath.

I wouldn't call her a sociopath.
A sociopath feels no empathy, no emotion. A sociopath is unencumbered by feelings such as fear, anxiety, stress, depression, remorse, guilt, caring, and love.

She suffers massively from anxiety and stress, she was paralysed by fear in her last two finals.
Smashing your racket and roaring at the umpire, lack of emotion you think.

She is just a bad loser and a spoilt brat.
Most great athletes are bad losers though, that's why they have such a will to win.

splinter65 · 09-09-2018 12:41pm

I’m glad I won’t have to deal with her on any level when she surfaces later today.
I’d imagine there will be any number of people in the firing line.
She badly wanted to prove that she could do it all, become a wife and mother and still win grand slams by beating young fit childless single women 15 years younger then her.
The ultimate feminist heroine she’d be all the while ignoring the glaring fact that her untold wealth means that these things are made much easier for her then regular Jane Doe retail assistant married to a general operative.
She was still going to declare “ I’m a black woman from an impoverished background and I can have it all and you can too if you weren’t being held back by the patriarchy “.
Rubbish.

BorneTobyWilde · 09-09-2018 12:47pm

To tell a umpire '' you'll never work on another court as long as you live'' is a death threat. She said the same to a lines judge '' I'll kill you''
How she is even allowed on a tennis court is beyond me.

sligeach · 09-09-2018 1:39pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Love the way people are building this up. It will inevitably be another 6-2 6-3 type scoreline, done and dusted in 80 minutes.

You weren't far off the scoreline, Serena might have made it 6-4 in the second set had it not been for her disgraceful histrionics. I'm sure your prediction was in Williams favour though. :pac:

09-09-2018 1:42pm

Reading people trying to defend Williams is akin to listening to Lance Armstrongs defenders during his career.

The media questions during her press conference were an absolute disgrace and shows the depths the US media have fallen to.

Without doubt Katrina Adams should resign for her disgraceful press release

dominatinMC · 09-09-2018 1:45pm

0127647 wrote: »

Reading people trying to defend Williams is akin to listening to Lance Armstrongs defenders during his career.

The media questions during her press conference were an absolute disgrace and shows the depths the US media have fallen to.

Without doubt Katrina Adams should resign for her disgraceful press release

They need a Paul Kimmage to shake them up!

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2018 1:57pm

0127647 wrote: »

Reading people trying to defend Williams is akin to listening to Lance Armstrongs defenders during his career.

The media questions during her press conference were an absolute disgrace and shows the depths the US media have fallen to.

Without doubt Katrina Adams should resign for her disgraceful press release

It didn't bode well when three of the first 5 questions concerned her daughter. The second question is worth quoting in full because it truly is a zinger: "How did motherhood influence how you comforted Naomi out there?" You'd really need a sick bag handy for that stuff.

lostcat · 09-09-2018 1:58pm

The coaching violation warning still seems odd, her coach is right it happens all the time (and Toni Nadal was notorious for itbsnd openly admitted it, despite what was said above, and I don't remember Rafa ever being pulled for it).
It's no excuse to spiral out of conttol, certainly, but if it happened to me in a slam final I think I would have words with the umpire about why he chose to start calling it out at this particular time.
The umpire applied a very strict interpretation of the rules at each juncture, and I'm pretty sure that far more leeway is shown at other times, to other players. If you take the 'its Serena, we don't like her' out of it, the above is reasonable.

US Open 2018

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