Home heating automation

Bluefoam · 20-10-2020 6:02am

south wrote: »

Unfortunately Tado got back to me and said
"
The controller is not compatible and you won't be able to replace it with tado°."

They asked for photos of the thermostats and said "The thermostat is compatible and you will need the Wired Thermostat Starter Kit to replace this"
I asked would I be able to control hot water with the wired kit and they replied No.
I think I'll have to send the whole thing back.

Sounds like a mess. Bin it and use a system that works.

deezell · 20-10-2020 7:14am

Bluefoam wrote: »

Sounds like a mess. Bin it and use a system that works.

You have no clue what you're talking about. You couldn't figure the simple solution to your own, so don't be giving advice on systems about which you know nothing.

south · 20-10-2020 8:37am

deezell wrote: »

They sell additional wired stats to pair to the bridge, so it's not unreasonable to expect them to function as a seperate zone stat. Perhaps when he registered his main kit it appeared as the single ch zone plus HW, they're unaware he has an extra stat. If you gave them your current controller info and had only registered 1 stat, I could see how support would say it wouldn't work, (unlike the utilities flogging the Hub Controller dumb stat, they will happily combine your two zones into one on installation, and do a legger).

This is what I sent them, I haven't received any of the units yet but they'll be delivered today so not registered yet

Hello, I've already purchased tado° Wireless Smart Thermostat Starter Kit V3+ with Hot Water Control plus a tado° Wired Smart Thermostat - Add-on and I'm wondering if I purchased the right product as I'm waiting on it to be delivered.

My system set up is
Boiler- Ideal logic system s24ie
Controller - EPH controls R37-HW E1820c
Thermostat - EPH B1831
Second thermostat EPH B1831
Both thermostats are wired thermostats.
I've 3 zones in my house, upstairs downstairs, and hot water.

They then replied saying the controller wasn't compatible and asked for photos of the thermostat and wiring.

Thanks for the help Deezell

championc · 20-10-2020 1:56pm

south wrote: »

This is what I sent them, I haven't received any of the units yet but they'll be delivered today so not registered yet

Hello, I've already purchased tado° Wireless Smart Thermostat Starter Kit V3+ with Hot Water Control plus a tado° Wired Smart Thermostat - Add-on and I'm wondering if I purchased the right product as I'm waiting on it to be delivered.

My system set up is
Boiler- Ideal logic system s24ie
Controller - EPH controls R37-HW E1820c
Thermostat - EPH B1831
Second thermostat EPH B1831
Both thermostats are wired thermostats.
I've 3 zones in my house, upstairs downstairs, and hot water.

They then replied saying the controller wasn't compatible and asked for photos of the thermostat and wiring.

Thanks for the help Deezell

I think the main point of the answer is them saying the "CONTROLLER" is not compatible, and this would be correct in the sense that it is a 3 channel controller. If you went back and said that you only had wires connected to HW and Heating 1, then they would say that all is fine !!!

It seems you were given the black and white answer rather than the grey one.

Deezell will get you sorted for sure

south · 24-10-2020 10:35am

deezell wrote: »

Doesn't make sense, if both your stats are wired,you can just drop one or both tado stats n place of one, then You just set the eph to always on, or remove it and bind the two stat wires for CH 1 and CH2 from terminals 5 and 7 to the live of the ext kit. You then connect the HW wire from 3 to the Ext kit HW on terminal. If you want to uses the main stat wirelessly, say CH1, then connect terminal 5 to the ext kit CH on, and either turn up CH1 old stat full or else remove it and join the live and return together and blank off the hole in the wall.
I don't see their problem, it's perfectly possible to setup a 3 zone system with 1 stat with ext kit, and one extra wired stat. Maybe they think you have wireless stats to the EPH, which would mean no existing wires for the wired Tado stat.

Hi Deezell, I was hoping to give this a go today and was wondering if this is the correct way to wire the extension kit?
I was thinking that I'd wire the thermostats to where the existing ones are already. I was want to make 100% sure before I go at it so that we don't end up with no heating for the weekend! Thank you.

deezell · 24-10-2020 3:42pm

south wrote: »

Hi Deezell, I was hoping to give this a go today and was wondering if this is the correct way to wire the extension kit?
I was thinking that I'd wire the thermostats to where the existing ones are already. I was want to make 100% sure before I go at it so that we don't end up with no heating for the weekend! Thank you.

I'll have a look after the match, our all morning, just seen this.

deezell · 24-10-2020 3:45pm

:Use the tado baseplate for reference, not the back 9f the unit as the pins are from the left wgen you turn it around,, only wreck your head. Ypu wire to the base plate not the unit, and the diagrams are for the base.

south · 24-10-2020 4:29pm

deezell wrote: »

:Use the tado baseplate for reference, not the back 9f the unit as the pins are from the left wgen you turn it around,, only wreck your head. Ypu wire to the base plate not the unit, and the diagrams are for the base.

Very good point!:D

so 1,5,7 to live and 2 to N and 3 to 3 on the extension kit?

deezell · 24-10-2020 4:35pm

south wrote: »

Very good point!:D

so 1,5,7 to live and 2 to N and 3 to 3 on the extension kit?

2nd half kicking off.

deezell · 24-10-2020 10:40pm

Sorry about late reply, yes, your wiring is correct, sending live to the stat locations, and using ext kit terminal 3 to send timed HW on to the HW valve. Note that the stat paired to the ext kit will use it as a wireless receiver, so check that the stat's own relay is closing, as it's possible that it may be disabled on the assumption that you are taking its SL from the ext kit. Mode jumper has to be in position 2.

south · 25-10-2020 3:49pm

deezell wrote: »

Sorry about late reply, yes, your wiring is correct, sending live to the stat locations, and using ext kit terminal 3 to send timed HW on to the HW valve. Note that the stat paired to the ext kit will use it as a wireless receiver, so check that the stat's own relay is closing, as it's possible that it may be disabled on the assumption that you are taking its SL from the ext kit. Mode jumper has to be in position 2.

I appreciate you taking the time to get back to me deezell, I've wired up now and everything paired but unfortunately I'm not getting the option to control the hot water with the app. There's no option available whatever is going on.

deezell · 25-10-2020 5:41pm

south wrote: »

I appreciate you taking the time to get back to me deezell, I've wired up now and everything paired but unfortunately I'm not getting the option to control the hot water with the app. There's no option available whatever is going on.

If you want to have a crack at the installer mode, page 14 below, work though the options and turn HW mode on, your app should recognise this and enable the HW timer. Alternatively, drop support a line and ask for HW on, two wired stats. You did pop the mode jumper into position 2, with the dot on the bottom?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KRGbtTNoust23GEX3lXtgx6akSbArrJx/view?usp=drivesdk

south · 25-10-2020 6:18pm

deezell wrote: »

If you want to have a crack at the installer mode, page 14 below, work though the options and turn HW mode on, your app should recognise this and enable the HW timer. Alternatively, drop support a line and ask for HW on, two wired stats. You did pop the mode jumper into position 2, with the dot on the bottom?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KRGbtTNoust23GEX3lXtgx6akSbArrJx/view?usp=drivesdk

Thanks very much for the help Deezell, it looks to be up and running now. I appreciate the help you've given me ðŸ‘

savemejebus · 04-11-2020 2:49pm

deezell wrote: »

Terminals 4, 3 and 6 on your device's wiring block to terminals 1. 2 and 3 on the Drayton wall plate.
ESI

Sorry for the giant picture post now (due to quote) but finally got backplate off the ESI, pic, attached, am i getting this right?

deezell · 04-11-2020 3:47pm

savemejebus wrote: »

Sorry for the giant picture post now (due to quote) but finally got backplate off the ESI, pic, attached, am i getting this right?

If that's the ESI wall plate, then 4, 3, and 6 are CH1, HW and CH2 respectively. You can see that all three have wires attached. You've labelled 5 as CH1, but its the one to the left, 4. No wire on 5. These three wires to 4, 3 and 6 go to Drayton 1, 2 and 3. The numbering on the wall plate starts from the left AFTER the live and neutral, so third from the left is 1, etc.

savemejebus · 04-11-2020 4:43pm

deezell wrote: »

If that's the ESI wall plate, then 4, 3, and 6 are CH1, HW and CH2 respectively. You can see that all three have wires attached. You've labelled 5 as CH1, but its the one to the left, 4. No wire on 5. These three wires to 4, 3 and 6 go to Drayton 1, 2 and 3. The numbering on the wall plate starts from the left AFTER the live and neutral, so third from the left is 1, etc.

Feel like a smacked arse now, thought I had the pic right, rushing and distracted didn't proof it. Will see about fixing it but thank you.

masterboy123 · 04-11-2020 7:12pm

Hello Everyone,

I have 3 zone EPH heating system (not RF version). One for hot water and other 2 for ground floor and first floor heating.
This is the system I have:
https://www.ephcontrols.com/section/3-zone-programmer-2/

Any idea if I can use Sonoff 4ch Pro to control the heating system remotely?

Much appreciate your help.

deezell · 04-11-2020 8:51pm

masterboy123 wrote: »

Hello Everyone,

I have 3 zone EPH heating system (not RF version). One for hot water and other 2 for ground floor and first floor heating.
This is the system I have:
https://www.ephcontrols.com/section/3-zone-programmer-2/

Any idea if I can use Sonoff 4ch Pro to control the heating system remotely?

Much appreciate your help.

You can indeed, just connect 3 Sonoff relays' Common and NO terminals across live and the 3 EPH channel outputs. You can leave the eph there, all channels set to off. This is handy to just time/switch the zones on and off by app, no thermostat control. If you have CH and HW stats wired into your EPH circuits, these will continue to set temperature. Not very sophisticated, but for €30-40, handy for remote boost and other functions.

masterboy123 · 05-11-2020 7:45am

Hi Deezell,

Many thanks for the info.

Do I need just 1 sonoff 4ch Pro? See the link below :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0793NYYPZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_h85OFbS1ZAZPY

And can I turn off the heating from outside of the house?

deezell wrote: »

You can indeed, just connect 3 Sonoff relays' Common and NO terminals across live and the 3 EPH channel outputs. You can leave the eph there, all channels set to off. This is handy to just time/switch the zones on and off by app, no thermostat control. If you have CH and HW stats wired into your EPH circuits, these will continue to set temperature. Not very sophisticated, but for €30-40, handy for remote boost and other functions.

deezell · 05-11-2020 8:48am

masterboy123 wrote: »

Hi Deezell,

Many thanks for the info.

Do I need just 1 sonoff 4ch Pro? See the link below :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0793NYYPZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_h85OFbS1ZAZPY

And can I turn off the heating from outside of the house?

I note it connects via Wi-Fi, and by direct connection to the phone, but also via the router. No reason why the Sonoff ewelink app, IFTTT (sub required?), Alexa or Google Home can't operate outside of the home if the device is connected to your router, and not directly to your phone Wi-Fi. That's where it gets tricky. Your router must have 2.4 Gh WiFi connection enabled to see the Sonoff. It can't connect to a 5Gh router. If your router is dual, you may have to turn the 2.4 band on if it's off.
Lots of users here with Sonoff connected to heating, lights etc. It's worth a punt (or 30 euro), and hopefully your configuration will go smoothly. Hopefully one of the Boards users will comment. I dont have any sonoff, but I'm aware that a lot of cheap smart stuff only works well when subs are involved, cctv, controllers, some thermostats etc. Easy to buy a bargain and get a surprise.
Yes, one device has 4 relays.

emaherx · 05-11-2020 9:45am

deezell wrote: »

I note it connects via Wi-Fi, and by direct connection to the phone, but also via the router. No reason why the Sonoff ewelink app, IFTTT (sub required?), Alexa or Google Home can't operate outside of the home if the device is connected to your router, and not directly to your phone Wi-Fi. That's where it gets tricky. Your router must have 2.4 Gh WiFi connection enabled to see the Sonoff. It can't connect to a 5Gh router. If your router is dual, you may have to turn the 2.4 band on if it's off.
Lots of users here with Sonoff connected to heating, lights etc. It's worth a punt (or 30 euro), and hopefully your configuration will go smoothly. Hopefully one of the Boards users will comment. I dont have any sonoff, but I'm aware that a lot of cheap smart stuff only works well when subs are involved, cctv, controllers, some thermostats etc. Easy to buy a bargain and get a surprise.
Yes, one device has 4 relays.

The 4ch Sonoff will work fine, no subs required.
Router may need to be set to 2.4Ghz to setup but will work fine on a dual band 2.4/5Ghz after. I find in most cases the setup works fine in dual band mode too but instructions advise against so may depend on your router.

There are Sonoff temperature sensors so system can be expanded for temperature control.

No direct connection from phone, it needs to be connected to a WiFi network, but I presume that shouldn't be an issue.

masterboy123 · 05-11-2020 11:29am

Hi Emaherx,

I have 4G mobile broadband (we don't have Internet lines laid yet in the new estate). Will Sonoff 4c work well on 4G Huawei b818 router?

I will check out their temperature sensors.

Also, could I install Sonoff myself?

.

emaherx wrote: »

The 4ch Sonoff will work fine, no subs required.
Router may need to be set to 2.4Ghz to setup but will work fine on a dual band 2.4/5Ghz after. I find in most cases the setup works fine in dual band mode too but instructions advise against so may depend on your router.

There are Sonoff temperature sensors so system can be expanded for temperature control.

No direct connection from phone, it needs to be connected to a WiFi network, but I presume that shouldn't be an issue.

savemejebus · 05-11-2020 12:53pm

savemejebus wrote: »

Feel like a smacked arse now, thought I had the pic right, rushing and distracted didn't proof it. Will see about fixing it but thank you.

I think that iv'e got it now, does this look right?

I take it that two wires going to one terminal is ok?

emaherx · 05-11-2020 12:54pm

masterboy123 wrote: »

Hi Emaherx,

I have 4G mobile broadband (we don't have Internet lines laid yet in the new estate). Will Sonoff 4c work well on 4G Huawei b818 router?

I will check out their temperature sensors.

Also, could I install Sonoff myself?

.

Yes will work off of 4G router it is a cloud service so requires no port forwarding or anything special at the router.

You can install yourself in that it is straight forward, but I've no idea of your competence with electrics so, I'm going to say if in doubt get an electrician

Before you invest in anything, what is your longer term plan? Is it just heating controls using Sonoff products and their ewelink software? These will use cloud service for scheduling so if internet is down then schedules will fail. They can be controlled on local network without internet.

Tuya is another option, and Tuya have much better fully functional room stats, if building a heating system using only the one eco system, then Tuya is slightly better but their scheduling also requires internet connection to the cloud service. They however don't work on local network as easily but have nicer manual controls.

However if you plan going down the Home Assistant, OpenHab or other DIY mixed ecosystem later then the Sonnoff devices are much more easily modified with custom firmwares etc.

My own heating system is a mix of Tuya, Sonoff, Shelly and Arduino devices controlled by Home Assistant, I have everything working as I like now and have removed cloud dependence from all of these devices so they work locally and my heating schedules work even if my internet connection or any of the cloud services are down. You need to think about depending on cloud services for heating schedules especially if your internet connection is poor, it won't be fun to wake up cold because the 4G dropped.

And finally if you have read this far, Tuya have nice budget room stats but spoofing them to working locally and ignoring their cloud service was a pain.

deezell · 05-11-2020 2:06pm

savemejebus wrote: »

I think that iv'e got it now, does this look right?

I take it that two wires going to one terminal is ok?

Yes.
I take it you're referring to the two blue neutral wires together on the N terminal. That's ok also.

savemejebus · 05-11-2020 2:48pm

deezell wrote: »

Yes.
I take it you're referring to the two blue neutral wires together on the N terminal. That's ok also.

Yeah, there might be 2 earth too, just wanted to be sure.

captainshamroc · 09-11-2020 11:15am

Looks like Drayton listened. I remember few people here weren't happy with the lack of this feature.

https://wiser.draytoncontrols.co.uk/new-and-improved-wiser-app?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Wiser%20Home%20launch&utm_content=Wiser%20Home%20launch+CID_4b3395c25d449a8bfffecdbb24d03af3&utm_source=Email&utm_term=Find%20out%20more#

Scheduling heating is quicker and simpler
We’ve made your schedules more accessible and you can now set multiple rooms to follow one schedule, perfect if you want an upstairs and downstairs schedule!

Create and tweak your schedules quicker than ever to maximise both your energy savings and your comfort, and you'll save time too by copying any schedule to other days or rooms in your system.

Brusna · 09-11-2020 12:30pm

captainshamroc wrote: »

Looks like Drayton listened. I remember few people here weren't happy with the lack of this feature.

https://wiser.draytoncontrols.co.uk/new-and-improved-wiser-app?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Wiser%20Home%20launch&utm_content=Wiser%20Home%20launch+CID_4b3395c25d449a8bfffecdbb24d03af3&utm_source=Email&utm_term=Find%20out%20more#

Scheduling heating is quicker and simpler
We’ve made your schedules more accessible and you can now set multiple rooms to follow one schedule, perfect if you want an upstairs and downstairs schedule!

Create and tweak your schedules quicker than ever to maximise both your energy savings and your comfort, and you'll save time too by copying any schedule to other days or rooms in your system.

Great stuff from Drayton Wiser. I’m delighted with this update, it will make switching schedules much easier.

dendof · 09-11-2020 5:24pm

I recently purchased the Tado Wireless Extension KIt along with a TRV. It's working away grand (thanks to deezell for advice on what to get).
I have a stove with back boiler, and also oil.
I notice that the room that has the TRV installed, when it calls for heat the oil switches on for a time to get to the desired temperature.
This is despite there being oceans of hot water actually available.
I contacted Tado and they say:
"Unfortunately, there is not mechanism for tado to call for hot water first before the oil. tado° can ask for heat but the oil cannot be controlled, sorry."

Is there any workaround for this? Ideally I would only like oil called if no hot water available.
It does not seem efficient that one room (will be others after Black Friday when I get more TRVs) calls for oil when a blazing fire is on and plenty of hot water.
Or maybe I am seeing oil coming on, but in reality it is not being used, maybe this is more a plumbing question though.

deezell · 09-11-2020 6:24pm

Before the TRV comes on and calls the boiler, where is the heated water from the stove going? Is there a stove stat and pump that circulates it to the other open radiators? And are they sufficiently hot without the intervention of the oil boiler? If this is the case, then the oil will have vert little work to do if the circulating boiler water is already heated. It will add to the heat then cut out when the heated water reaches the temperature set on the boiler stat ( not a room stat). If this is set to say 55-60°, and the stove is already circulating at or near this, then it might not come on at all.
Realistically, a boiler is a controlled system, capable of heating constantly to a desired schedule. A stove will not match it for output, unless it's one of those huge ones that can take a half barrow of fuel at a time. A more modest stove will at best assist the oil boiler to reach and keep a scheduled temperature. If you don't want the oil to come on when a TRV opens, you can dissociate it from any main Tado stat relay. It will now just open and close, and expect there to be a heat flow over which it has no control. If the stove is not lit or is only ticking over, there won't be sufficient heat in the flow to bring the room up to temperature quickly. It's a question of choice, controlled on demand heating to a temperature schedule, or incidental heating at the mercy of the stove.

Home heating automation

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