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Home heating automation

[Deleted User]

Just starting to look into this now though probably wont be purchasing for a while unless a bargain pops up.

I know there are a number of options out there for this but many like the Nest for example appear to be mostly based around running automatically depending on temp etc or learning your usage.

What I want to know is which one is best to use like a traditional timer? I'd want to set a schedule for heating and water to come on and off and also boost it if I felt like it. Learning my usage or using the thermostat to turn on/off the heating is not something I would really use.

I do want to be able to boost the heat and water remotely so the place is warm before arriving home and have a nice interface for setting timers using an app as we change around our water and heating timing quite often and its a pain having to do this using the poor user interfaces and controls on a traditional heating timer.

I'm assuming they can all be used in this way but I wonder if any device in particular is more geared towards this type of usage?

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masterboy123

Is it possible to get Drayton Wiser without their radiator valves?
Thanks

deezell wrote: »

Drayton hard to beat, currently about €200, but keep an eye out for black cyber punk deals or whatever. Tado were hugely discounted for a 12 hr window, you could have brought in a two zone+HW kit for about that. Drayton very easy to Insta'll, especially if you have a current 3 zone controller on the wall.

John mac

so my controller died last week , (had an old clock timer in the garage so its ok for now ,
right now i dont have a thermostat , i have trv's on most of the rads , and no 3way for just heating hot water ,
have a ball valve i turn off for summer just to heat hot water . (no immersion either )
now for new controller , have a short list , not in any order

Hive,
honeywell TR6
drayron wiser
nest

am I missing anything obvious , tado seems to be off the table as its charging a sub .

can they all controll extra trvs, like the drayton ?
are the tvr's compatible with each other ?

thanks

championc

Sleepy wrote: »

No joy. Other things I've tried:

Removed all special characters from the ssid and password for the 2.4ghz channel, currently just upper and lower case letters
Have tried with phone both connected and disconnected from the 2.4ghz wifi, mobile data switched off for both attempts.
Tried on both FAC settings (10 and 32)

I'm 99% sure this is something to do with the router rather than the thermostat as it worked flawlessly on our older Vodafone router (which sadly they actually collected for a change, was hoping to swap it for the Eir router).

Try restricting your SSID to 802.11b/g only, until you get it setup ???

Sleepy

Hmm, had a look at that post. Wi-Fi Analyzer sees only our router SSID and some of our neighbours even when within a foot of the thermostat... No signal visible at all from it when in "Twinkly mode".

deezell

Sleepy wrote: »

No joy. Other things I've tried:

Removed all special characters from the ssid and password for the 2.4ghz channel, currently just upper and lower case letters
Have tried with phone both connected and disconnected from the 2.4ghz wifi, mobile data switched off for both attempts.
Tried on both FAC settings (10 and 32)

I'm 99% sure this is something to do with the router rather than the thermostat as it worked flawlessly on our older Vodafone router (which sadly they actually collected for a change, was hoping to swap it for the Eir router).

This exact problem arose for a poster on August, I posted on
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114458166&postcount=2094

The key suggestion was to turn off 10Gz in the router, and have the phone app connected by 2.4 so it would hand over this connection to the BEOK. Later you can turn on dual 10/2.4. The OP replied that the WPS button had solved it.

Sleepy

No joy. Other things I've tried:

Removed all special characters from the ssid and password for the 2.4ghz channel, currently just upper and lower case letters
Have tried with phone both connected and disconnected from the 2.4ghz wifi, mobile data switched off for both attempts.
Tried on both FAC settings (10 and 32)

I'm 99% sure this is something to do with the router rather than the thermostat as it worked flawlessly on our older Vodafone router (which sadly they actually collected for a change, was hoping to swap it for the Eir router).

deezell

Sleepy wrote: »

Via holding down the down arrow, pressing power and then M until getting to the FAC setting and changing it to 10 or 32? I've tried both options every time I've tried to connect in order to get the wifi icon flashing fast.

There doesn't appear to be a hardware option for resetting There's a small hole at the bottom but inserting a pin doesn't seem to meet any resistance or reset switch?

Also try the WPS button on the router when connecting

Sleepy

deezell wrote: »

Factory reset the Beok.

Via holding down the down arrow, pressing power and then M until getting to the FAC setting and changing it to 10 or 32? I've tried both options every time I've tried to connect in order to get the wifi icon flashing fast.

There doesn't appear to be a hardware option for resetting There's a small hole at the bottom but inserting a pin doesn't seem to meet any resistance or reset switch?

deezell

Sleepy wrote: »

We had the heating controls upgraded last year and got what I'm pretty sure is a BEOK BOT-313 WiFi Thermostat installed. Everything worked fine until we changed WiFi provider from Vodafone to Eir and ever since installing the new router, we've been unable to get the mobile app to connect to the thermostat (following the connection instructions in the link above)

What I've tried to date to resolve the issue:

1. Ensured the router (an Eir branded Sagecom model) has it's 2.4 ghz WiFi channel configured to "802.11b+g+n"
2. Uninstalled and re-installed the Beok Home(eu) app on my mobile

Factory reset the Beok.

Sleepy

We had the heating controls upgraded last year and got what I'm pretty sure is a BEOK BOT-313 WiFi Thermostat installed. Everything worked fine until we changed WiFi provider from Vodafone to Eir and ever since installing the new router, we've been unable to get the mobile app to connect to the thermostat (following the connection instructions in the link above)

What I've tried to date to resolve the issue:

1. Ensured the router (an Eir branded Sagecom model) has it's 2.4 ghz WiFi channel configured to "802.11b+g+n"
2. Uninstalled and re-installed the Beok Home(eu) app on my mobile

deezell

masterboy123 wrote: »

Thanks Deezell.
I will wait for the black Friday deal.
I contacted an electrician who said he will charge €100 for installation of any smart system. Could I do it myself? Please see attached image of what we have now.

Do you have wall thermostats in the two zones? Either way, it's a cinch to swap Drayton Wiser 3 zone controller for the EPH, the wiser stats are wireless, if you have existing wired stats to the EPH, remove and link the wires, or else leave and turn up full. Tado install a little different, only one stat can be wireless, one must be wired.

masterboy123

Thanks Deezell.
I will wait for the black Friday deal.
I contacted an electrician who said he will charge €100 for installation of any smart system. Could I do it myself? Please see attached image of what we have now.

deezell wrote: »

Drayton hard to beat, currently about €200, but keep an eye out for black cyber punk deals or whatever. Tado were hugely discounted for a 12 hr window, you could have brought in a two zone+HW kit for about that. Drayton very easy to Insta'll, especially if you have a current 3 zone controller on the wall.

deezell

masterboy123 wrote: »

I am running tight on budget.

Is there a cheaper smart thermostat than Drayton?

2 heating zones + 1 hot water.

Drayton hard to beat, currently about €200, but keep an eye out for black cyber punk deals or whatever. Tado were hugely discounted for a 12 hr window, you could have brought in a two zone+HW kit for about that. Drayton very easy to Insta'll, especially if you have a current 3 zone controller on the wall.

masterboy123

I am running tight on budget.

Is there a cheaper smart thermostat than Drayton?

2 heating zones + 1 hot water.

deezell

SierraTango wrote: »

Looking for a bit of advice on a smart heating system. I have an air to water heat pump and two zones and HW. Noticed the tado was on sale. Would I be able to use smart TRVs with a low temperature rad?

No reason why not, the principle is the same, as long as the heat pump is called by a Tado thermostat relay, then the TRVs can actively call the system for heat as well as individual control of their room/zone.
Tado indicates control for heating only in air to water systems, which implies HW supply remains under control of the heat pump controller, which is fine.

EDIT; Check that the valve bodies on your radiators are TRV valves, not ordinary screw down tap like valves. If these need to be changed, it's likely that the radiator valve spigot is of a larger bore, typically 1 inch for low temperature radiators, so you will need to source valve TRV bodies that can handle the possibly greater flow from a low temperature system. Add a photo of the rad valve bodies currently fitted if you can.

SierraTango

Looking for a bit of advice on a smart heating system. I have an air to water heat pump and two zones and HW. Noticed the tado was on sale. Would I be able to use smart TRVs with a low temperature rad?

championc

planck26 wrote: »

Excellent, I'll try slaving the TRVs first so. Good to know there are some options for the electric rad too. Now just a matter of timing for a good Black Friday deal...

Thanks for your help deezell, much appreciated.

Just one thing to bear in mind but TRV's can only be grouped in groups of 10 for the purpose of calling for heat. In other words, each TRV has the ability to actually fire the boiler independently. So you can set all rads off and when you turn one rad on, the boiler will fire and just that single room will be warmed to your desired temperature.

So if you go with 12, then two units can act normally regarding opening and closing at the chosen temperature, but if the boiler is off, it cannot turn the boiler on.

However, joining two rad TRV's together may then mean than you are just down to one remaining.

But there's no doubt that Tado is a fantastic system. The flexibility is brilliant, particularly being able to heat individual rooms with all others turned off. So I might use more gas by heating when I didn't previously turn the heating on, but I'm saving by just only heating the rooms in use at particular times.

For instance (and for the benefit of those considering installing Tado), I don't heat my sitting room in the mornings, and only do on Saturday and Sunday afternoons. I could heat the bathroom from 07:00 to 07:15 and maybe the kitchen from 07:15 to 07:30 and from 09:00 onwards, and at specific temperatures each time

christy c

Trying to add Drayton wiser to Google Home and keep getting the message "Couldn't update the setting. Check your connection" after signing in to wiser. Anyone manage to fix this? Seems a common problem for Hue lighting.

Special thanks to Deezell for his advice on the the initial set up of the system.

paulgrogan.eu

planck26 wrote: »

Excellent, I'll try slaving the TRVs first so. Good to know there are some options for the electric rad too. Now just a matter of timing for a good Black Friday deal...

Thanks for your help deezell, much appreciated.

As a recent convert of a very basic system to full Tado, you're in for the world of pleasure I can assure you. I did my install over the summer and it's been great since. Like you I bought up the parts when they were on various cyber / black sales etc, and probably got nearly 50% off it all. In terms of the TRV's, watch for deals on the quatro packs (4 packs). I have smart TRV's on all my rads and it's amazing, well worth the investment, but did so when they were on sale.

Just on this particular point here, Deezell is 100% here, however I do have a large kitchen like yours and I'm finding a little snag in that the TRV I use to monitor the temp gets blocked if one of the doors is left open and thus doesn't read right. I could use another stat, but I'm having issues with it dropping offline due to its distance from the Bridge (to be solved soon). However overall I feel the wireless sensor that they've recently released is a great offering and something that I'm going to move too, as I think it will allow me to just have a more central location for my temp sensor and also given it's such a large room, for anyone visiting it will offer an easy to find location to adjust that room's temp. Tado have a deal on these at the moment so that's just worth keeping in mind.

But again what Deezell is saying is 100% accurate and will work.

Paul

planck26

deezell wrote: »

1. Only if you want. You can slave one TRV off the other, using its temperature sensor for both.
2. Your choice. If You want HW timing on the app, get the kit.
3. Yes if you want the ext kit.

4. I can think of three ootions.
a. If you get the ext kit, but continue to use the Danfoss for HW timing, you can use the ext kit HW live signal to operate a mains relay for your electric rad, which I assume has its own built in stat.
b. If you want independent control, just add an additional tafo stat to the garden room, use it's output to switch a mains relay to turn on the electric rad.
c. Alternatively, you could link a tado zone via smart software such as IFTTT to operate a smart mains switch/socket, so when say " Kitchen Zone" is on, IFTTT will detect and operate Garden room mains relay.

Excellent, I'll try slaving the TRVs first so. Good to know there are some options for the electric rad too. Now just a matter of timing for a good Black Friday deal...

Thanks for your help deezell, much appreciated.

deezell

planck26 wrote: »

Hi, newbie here thinking of making the leap for a Tado system (or similar), and would appreciate a sensecheck from the resident experts please...
Current system: Viessmann gas condenser boiler, single zone with 12 rads (old manual TRVs) and HW cylinder (with motorized valve and manual thermostat). Danfoss 2-channel programmer (FP715Si) and single manual thermostat in the hall, wired to the boiler in the utility room.
I want to put smart TRVs (initially 4) in some rooms to give me better temp control, and some degree of zoning. The key room is a large open kitchen/living space with two big rads.
Some questions:

1. Am I right in thinking that for the kitchen/living room I'd need a "Wireless Temperature Sensor" (in Tado-speak) to manage the two TRVs?
2. Do I need to replace the current Danfoss programmer with the "Extension Kit", or should I just replace the thermostat and TRVs?
3. I think I need Tado's "Wireless Heating and Hot Water Starter Pack" and a pack of TRVs - is that right?
4. And finally, very much a "nice to have"... would Tado or any other system allow me to also control an electric rad in a garden room, via the same app?

Thanks for any guidance.

1. Only if you want. You can slave one TRV off the other, using its temperature sensor for both.
2. Your choice. If You want HW timing on the app, get the kit.
3. Yes if you want the ext kit.

4. I can think of three ootions.
a. If you get the ext kit, but continue to use the Danfoss for HW timing, you can use the ext kit HW live signal to operate a mains relay for your electric rad, which I assume has its own built in stat.
b. If you want independent control, just add an additional tafo stat to the garden room, use it's output to switch a mains relay to turn on the electric rad.
c. Alternatively, you could link a tado zone via smart software such as IFTTT to operate a smart mains switch/socket, so when say " Kitchen Zone" is on, IFTTT will detect and operate Garden room mains relay.

planck26

Hi, newbie here thinking of making the leap for a Tado system (or similar), and would appreciate a sensecheck from the resident experts please...
Current system: Viessmann gas condenser boiler, single zone with 12 rads (old manual TRVs) and HW cylinder (with motorized valve and manual thermostat). Danfoss 2-channel programmer (FP715Si) and single manual thermostat in the hall, wired to the boiler in the utility room.
I want to put smart TRVs (initially 4) in some rooms to give me better temp control, and some degree of zoning. The key room is a large open kitchen/living space with two big rads.
Some questions:

1. Am I right in thinking that for the kitchen/living room I'd need a "Wireless Temperature Sensor" (in Tado-speak) to manage the two TRVs?
2. Do I need to replace the current Danfoss programmer with the "Extension Kit", or should I just replace the thermostat and TRVs?
3. I think I need Tado's "Wireless Heating and Hot Water Starter Pack" and a pack of TRVs - is that right?
4. And finally, very much a "nice to have"... would Tado or any other system allow me to also control an electric rad in a garden room, via the same app?

Thanks for any guidance.

deezell

Fwiw, oil heating is costing about 4.4c per KWh at the moment, with the current low cost of kerosene. Solid fuel for the stove is much higher, smokeless stove nuggets run at 5.55c per KWh, and bagged dried timber is up to near double that, with bulk bought softwood the best value at 5.57c/KWh. Efficiency also comes into play, a modern condenser boiler is over 92% efficient, a stove struggles to achieve 70%, usually because too much air is admitted and very hot flue gasses are escaping up the chimney, compared to the tepid steam that leaves an oil condenser boiler. It's not necessarily cost effective to be trying to 'save' oil by using solid fuel.
I love the stove, but I'm conscious that it's more expensive to run full house heating on purchased fuel, plus you have to drive to collect it, dispose of ash etc. If you have a good supply of your own timber, an axe and a saw, then you are making a saving, and as the old Chinese saying goes, ' He who chops his own firewood, warms himself twice.' Ah so.

dendof

deezell wrote: »

Before the TRV comes on and calls the boiler, where is the heated water from the stove going? Is there a stove stat and pump that circulates it to the other open radiators? And are they sufficiently hot without the intervention of the oil boiler? If this is the case, then the oil will have vert little work to do if the circulating boiler water is already heated. It will add to the heat then cut out when the heated water reaches the temperature set on the boiler stat ( not a room stat). If this is set to say 55-60°, and the stove is already circulating at or near this, then it might not come on at all.
Realistically, a boiler is a controlled system, capable of heating constantly to a desired schedule. A stove will not match it for output, unless it's one of those huge ones that can take a half barrow of fuel at a time. A more modest stove will at best assist the oil boiler to reach and keep a scheduled temperature. If you don't want the oil to come on when a TRV opens, you can dissociate it from any main Tado stat relay. It will now just open and close, and expect there to be a heat flow over which it has no control. If the stove is not lit or is only ticking over, there won't be sufficient heat in the flow to bring the room up to temperature quickly. It's a question of choice, controlled on demand heating to a temperature schedule, or incidental heating at the mercy of the stove.

Thanks for the reply deezell

Currently the water that the stove heats goes to all the rads bar the TRV one.
There is a stat set to 60 to be pumped then.
So I guess then the oil is not getting used a lot, even if geting called a bit by the TRV.
Think I'm safe to expand the TRVs for Black Friday!

deezell

Before the TRV comes on and calls the boiler, where is the heated water from the stove going? Is there a stove stat and pump that circulates it to the other open radiators? And are they sufficiently hot without the intervention of the oil boiler? If this is the case, then the oil will have vert little work to do if the circulating boiler water is already heated. It will add to the heat then cut out when the heated water reaches the temperature set on the boiler stat ( not a room stat). If this is set to say 55-60°, and the stove is already circulating at or near this, then it might not come on at all.
Realistically, a boiler is a controlled system, capable of heating constantly to a desired schedule. A stove will not match it for output, unless it's one of those huge ones that can take a half barrow of fuel at a time. A more modest stove will at best assist the oil boiler to reach and keep a scheduled temperature. If you don't want the oil to come on when a TRV opens, you can dissociate it from any main Tado stat relay. It will now just open and close, and expect there to be a heat flow over which it has no control. If the stove is not lit or is only ticking over, there won't be sufficient heat in the flow to bring the room up to temperature quickly. It's a question of choice, controlled on demand heating to a temperature schedule, or incidental heating at the mercy of the stove.

dendof

I recently purchased the Tado Wireless Extension KIt along with a TRV. It's working away grand (thanks to deezell for advice on what to get).
I have a stove with back boiler, and also oil.
I notice that the room that has the TRV installed, when it calls for heat the oil switches on for a time to get to the desired temperature.
This is despite there being oceans of hot water actually available.
I contacted Tado and they say:
"Unfortunately, there is not mechanism for tado to call for hot water first before the oil. tado° can ask for heat but the oil cannot be controlled, sorry."

Is there any workaround for this? Ideally I would only like oil called if no hot water available.
It does not seem efficient that one room (will be others after Black Friday when I get more TRVs) calls for oil when a blazing fire is on and plenty of hot water.
Or maybe I am seeing oil coming on, but in reality it is not being used, maybe this is more a plumbing question though.

Brusna

captainshamroc wrote: »

Looks like Drayton listened. I remember few people here weren't happy with the lack of this feature.

https://wiser.draytoncontrols.co.uk/new-and-improved-wiser-app?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Wiser%20Home%20launch&utm_content=Wiser%20Home%20launch+CID_4b3395c25d449a8bfffecdbb24d03af3&utm_source=Email&utm_term=Find%20out%20more#

Scheduling heating is quicker and simpler
We’ve made your schedules more accessible and you can now set multiple rooms to follow one schedule, perfect if you want an upstairs and downstairs schedule!

Create and tweak your schedules quicker than ever to maximise both your energy savings and your comfort, and you'll save time too by copying any schedule to other days or rooms in your system.

Great stuff from Drayton Wiser. I’m delighted with this update, it will make switching schedules much easier.

captainshamroc

Looks like Drayton listened. I remember few people here weren't happy with the lack of this feature.

https://wiser.draytoncontrols.co.uk/new-and-improved-wiser-app?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Wiser%20Home%20launch&utm_content=Wiser%20Home%20launch+CID_4b3395c25d449a8bfffecdbb24d03af3&utm_source=Email&utm_term=Find%20out%20more#

Scheduling heating is quicker and simpler
We’ve made your schedules more accessible and you can now set multiple rooms to follow one schedule, perfect if you want an upstairs and downstairs schedule!

Create and tweak your schedules quicker than ever to maximise both your energy savings and your comfort, and you'll save time too by copying any schedule to other days or rooms in your system.

savemejebus

deezell wrote: »

Yes.
I take it you're referring to the two blue neutral wires together on the N terminal. That's ok also.

Yeah, there might be 2 earth too, just wanted to be sure.

deezell

savemejebus wrote: »

I think that iv'e got it now, does this look right?

I take it that two wires going to one terminal is ok?

Yes.
I take it you're referring to the two blue neutral wires together on the N terminal. That's ok also.