False rape accusation...who would you believe?

But this whole thread is basically that. Nobody knows if a accusation is true or not unless a person actually witnesses it. But the OP is asking people who they would believe... probably asking them what their intuition is from thier experience.

I agree tho. On such a serious matter it does not seem right to speculate

Defunkd wrote: »

I was not replying to the OP and neither were you.

The point is that this thread is a speculative thread, do you agree or not?

Earlier I said I had no idea of the statistics of false accusations convictions to the amount of actual rape convictions but speculated it was very low. Then you said well then your opinion is not worth much.... but nobody's opinion is therefore worth anything on this thread as nobody has an idea of those statistics .... unless you do??

This thread is a speculative thread... you can tell that by its title.

Defunkd wrote: »

The two cases i posted about aren't speculation, they are factual and this is the only thread relating to false rape accusations.
You introduce the ratio aspect; admit you don't know it (if only there were some way to search for such information *wink) and then say that speculation is okay. I can't argue against that line of thinking!

The thread title is ''False rape accusation...who would you believe?'' That is a speculative question.

The number of convictions for rape compared to the number of convictions of a false allegation of rape would give an indication of the percentage of rape accusations that are made up.

I would guess its low and nobody here has statistics on it. You have trawled the internet and have found two cases of a false rape accusation in a different jurisdiction which again suggest a false rape accusations as being uncommon as presumably you would be referencing false rape convictions in Ireland to push your agenda.

ittakestwo wrote: »

The thread title is ''False rape accusation...who would you believe?'' That is a speculative question.

The number of convictions for rape compared to the number of convictions of a false allegation of rape would give an indication of the percentage of rape accusations that are made up.

I would guess its low and nobody here has statistics on it. You have trawled the internet and have found two cases of a false rape accusation in a different jurisdiction which again suggest a false rape accusations as being uncommon as presumably you would be referencing false rape convictions in Ireland to push your agenda.

K

Well a little googling got me these results.

Kerry woman given suspended sentence for making false rape claim. Cheats on boyfriend and then cries rape to cover it up. Two and a half years suspended sentence.

Woman who was angry at a man and said “You messed with the wrong person, I’ll get you sorted out.” alleged he raped her in a city centre pub toilet.

The man was never arrested but was interviewed by gardaí during an extensive investigation. He had not been in the city that night and recovery of large amount of CCTV disproved the allegation.

Woman jailed for 3 years for making false rape claim. This is very much an outlier, the usual sentence from what I can see is a suspended sentence with no other penalty.

Joint Trinity College and London Metropolitan University study in 2009 estimates that 9% of rape claims in Ireland are false.

And two more of the most infamous cases that come to mind.

In 1997 Michael Hannon falsely accused and convicted of the rape of 10 year old Una Hardester. This was as a result of a land dispute between the two families. She recanted her testimony 10 years later. Here is Kevin Myers take on the difference between the feminist reaction to it and other cases. I think the last sentence in the article is apposite. For those that can’t bring themselves to read any article of his without having an attack of the vapours, here is the final paragraph.

Now, we can be quite certain if a woman had been so gravely wronged by the State in some matter relating to sexual crime, that the feminist sirens, media and quangos alike, would have been howling in anger, and demanding enquiries and heads. But in the aftermath of this case, nothing: the sirens remained as quiet as a mountain lake. For the victim is a man, so really, the injustice done to him really doesn't count. Not in 1997, not today, and no doubt, not in 2019 either.

Brenda Power in the Sunday Times article referencing the Michael Hannon and other cases. It's behind a paywall but I will c & p some of the most relevant bits.

A survey tracing the trajectory from complaint to conviction in rape cases turned up an unexpectedly timely statistic last week. Just a day after Michael Feichin Hannon had a 10-year-old conviction for sexual assault quashed, after his supposed victim admitted she'd made the whole thing up, the study of attrition in rape cases found we had the highest rate of false allegations of all the European countries studied.

Some 100 reported rapes in each of 11 different countries were examined. As well as having the highest rate of false complaints, at 9%, we also had one of the lowest rates of convictions for reported rapes, at just 8%, compared with 34% in Hungary. Paul O'Mahony, a criminologist in Trinity College Dublin, said attrition in sexual violence cases is a serious problem across Europe and suggested that the main obstacle to more successful convictions in this country may be "under-prosecution".

There is, of course, another possible reason why just eight of the 100 men accused in these Irish cases were convicted. Hard though it is to believe, there has to be the chance that some of the other 92 were innocent. Since the survey seems to take separate account of cases that failed for lack of evidence, or because the main witness withdrew her testimony, these are not counted as "false allegations". There's an implied presumption, in other words, that the men implicated were guilty and would have been bang to rights if only the victim had held her nerve or the forensics were a bit stronger. With some more robust "over-prosecution", then, the weaknesses of the forensic case could have been overcome and a conviction achieved solely on the word of the victim. Which is exactly what happened to Michael Feichin Hannon.

She also references the EU Daphne II project (2004 - 2008) aimed at preventing violence against women and children and protecting victims and at risk groups.

For some reason, an unusually high number of Irish women are prepared to report rapes that never happened. To find that reason we might have to look at another statistic thrown up by the EU Daphne II project, some 88% of Irish men and 84% of women in rape cases had alcohol in their system. In Portugal, just 15% of victims been drinking.

A few years ago, the sexual-assault clinic in the Rotunda Hospital reported a worrying number of young women were presenting themselves on a Monday morning with no recollection of what they'd done the previous night. They couldn't remember having sex, let alone the trauma of a rape, but they couldn't be sure. In fact, many were found not to have engaged in any sexual activity the night before. Yet the fact that they attended a "sexual assault" clinic suggests they were perfectly prepared to make a criminal allegation, if it turned out they had indeed had sex.

They were not prepared to let a little thing like the fact that they had no recollection of any crime, no attendant distress and no physical injury deter their pursuit of the belief that they had been assaulted. If the clinic hadn't been able to clear up their drunken suspicions, there's every chance they would have made an allegation against an innocent, if equally drunken, man that put him at risk of a life sentence and, at best, a tainted reputation.

I wasn't aware of this, or had forgotten it. :eek:

Hannon was found guilty, even though he had no previous convictions and there was no forensic evidence against him. His job, his good name, his family's standing in the Galway community where they'd lived for generations were all sacrificed to a lack of scepticism about the curiously precocious evidence of a 10-year-old girl.

Nobody doubts that "under prosecution" of rape, fear and intimidation of victims and forensic shortcomings have all left rapists on the loose. But "over-prosecution" flies in the face of one of the central tenets of our legal system, which is that it is better that 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man be prosecuted in zealous error. Unless, of course, political correctness decrees that this protection doesn't extend to men accused of rape.

There was also the case of Nora Wall who along with Paul (Pablo) McCabe was wrongfully convicted of rape. She was the first woman convicted of rape in Irish courts. She was released and eventually settled a claim for damages in 2016.

I know these last two cases aren't at all recent but I think it's good to have a reminder as I forgot a lot of details about those cases. Especially as they happened before this thread started.

Finally, look at these cases again with all the furore over the recent Rugby and “knickers “ cases, safe in the knowledge that Oliver Flanagan is kowtowing to the feminist lobby that wants to have anonymity for defendants taken away.

To paraphrase Brenda Powers view of one of the central tenets of our legal system. Is it better that 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be prosecuted (or publicly named and shamed) in zealous error? Unless of course political correctness decrees that this protection doesn't extend to men accused of rape.

We will soon know the answer to that.

More tragic case...

https://metro.co.uk/2016/07/29/mother-of-teen-who-hanged-himself-over-false-rape-allegations-commits-suicide-6037994/amp/

Teenage boy (17) falsely accused of rape* never got over the trauma of it and committed suicide.
His mother, went into a downward spiral, and killed herself around his first anniversary. Even used the same rope.

Men are more likely to be raped than be falsely accused of rape.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-men-are-more-likely-to-be-raped-than-be-falsely-accused-of-rape

py2006 wrote: »

In prison, yes.

I don't have evidence to back this up but I firmly believe there is a HELL of a lot more false rape accusations out there and a hell of lot of innocent men in jail today and most definitely in the past.

Not just in prison. In general

Defunkd wrote: »

Feel free to start another thread and post the incidences of men raping men all you want but this thread is about false rape accusations.

I cheerfully withdraw that comment if it is considered backseat-modding by a mod.

No the thead is about who you would believe. The piont that you are more likely to know a man that has been raped than been falsely accused of rape gives a great indication of just how rare a false accusation is..... And I know you are trying to claim otherwise by linking every case of false rape throughout the world. A person reading this thread might actually think to be falsely accused of rape is a common occurence which it isn't. Extreamly rare in fact.

Defunkd wrote: »

Judge Kavanaugh, Jackson/Olding, those 2 Kerry women convicted last year and all the other recent cases that are being posted...rare indeed.

Yeah extreamly rare.

You could find 2 convictions of a false rape accusation in this jurisdiction ... is that all??? You know Ireland has 4.8 million people.

Defunkd wrote: »

Well, i've only started posting in the last few days and there is a person distracting me... and i have a life beyond this site. But have patience, there is more to come.

Would you like to share any thoughts on the cases presented so far? If not, our interaction on this thread is finished.

What is the piont in linking any false rape accusation that you can find on througout the world on this thread. The thead topic is not about that. It is who would you believe or to discuss which is more likely, a true accusation or a false accusation of rape. As somebody already linked a study in Ireland estimated that 10% of rape accusation are false.

So there you go. If you hear a person has made an accusation of rape and knowing nothing else there would be a 90% chance it was true accusation and 10% chance it was a false accusation. Obviously the posters here obsessed with just posting the false accusation storys won't agree with that Irish study as it goes against the agenda they are pushing.

BTW I have no interest in discussing individual cases of rape/false rape accusations of people I don't know.

A precedent needs to be set.

The next false accuser should be prosecuted under Perverting the course of Justice, Perjury and Wasting Police time.

Only then will we stop hearing these horror stories.

Victimhood has been turned into a currency and it's only natural that wicked people will take advantage of that.

Not only does it destroy the lives of the falsely accused but it is also a grave insult to actual victims of horrific crimes such as Rape.

Jeez, that's an horrific tale of woe.

Talk about being left down by the legal system - Woeful!!

UCD issues apology after computer science students were sent email asking to help develop sex consent app
https://www.thejournal.ie/ucd-apology-4537893-Mar2019/