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Why no town square in Dublin?

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    #92
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,901 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Valresnick wrote: »
    It’s DCC as it’s in North Dublin.

    Oh, I see you edited that in after I thought you meant the new DLR one.
    Anyway the one in Clontarf is great, packed any time I'm on it I live nearby.
    You really don't think that's a benefit to the city?


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    #93
    Valresnick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭Valresnick


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Oh, I see you edited that in after I thought you meant the new DLR one.
    Anyway the one in Clontarf is great, packed any time I'm on it I live nearby.
    You really don't think that's a benefit to the city?

    Poorly designed, cyclists far to close to walkers. Have you seen the speed some of them are doing on it ? Great benefit but bad design !


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    #94
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,906 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    expectationlost wrote: »
    http://wolfetonepark.com/

    That place should be for a market of some sort. Don't ask me what type, but it is a wasted space in the city all the same. Send the tat Merchants from Henry Street up there for Christmas at least.

    And how far along is DCC with the Fruit and Veg market place. Years have passed now, as usual. Takes so flippin long to get anything done.


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    #95
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,901 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Valresnick wrote: »
    Poorly designed, cyclists far to close to walkers. Have you seen the speed some of them are doing on it ? Great benefit but bad design !

    well you could say the same about any footpath and cars really. I haven't seen any bicycles killing pedestrians in the news lately but you see it all the time with cars. So if I were you I'd focus on pedestrians being further from cars rather than bicycles!


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    #96
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,138 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    expectationlost wrote: »
    http://wolfetonepark.com/

    Looks like that site is a campaign to put it back to a park as it was in the 90s which was really quite pleasant. Not sure how successful their campaign is/was.


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    #97
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,915 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    It's locked up now, but it wasn't during the summer. Yes I'm certain people will go back to doing those things when normality resumes. My point is that the bustling Dublin we knew was because the trips a lot of people were making was because it was a necessity for work not a choice. When given the choice, most are not making that journey, they are rejecting Dublin.

    They've been saying avoid public transport unless you are an essential worker since the start of the pandemic, so how are people supposed to get into the city if they are told to not use public transport and car access is restricted? Then you can't browse in shops either so there's no incentive for people to go in.
    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    I could report objectionable graffiti all day and I wouldn't get half way down o'connell st. The city is overrun with stickers that gob****es put on every available square inch of signage and street furniture.

    I've been to a good few European cities and Dublin is not bad for graffiti, Athens was terrible.
    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    It has been a great success, any time I've been there it's been packed with cyclists.
    It's cars that kill pedestrians not bikes!
    Anyway that's Dun Laoighaire Rathdown council, so nothing to do with DCC.

    Bikes can injure people. I'm sure that a pedestrian will be happy that their injury wasn't caused by a car, especially when they find out the other party is exempt from insurance.


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    #98
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,475 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    I think the large green areas like stephens green are far more appealing than an open square of bricks or concrete.


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    #99
    lemonTrees
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 105 ✭✭lemonTrees


    Fred Cryton wrote: »
    They would just become congregation spaces for aggressive beggars harassing members of the public, as well as hard left types shouting into megaphones.

    Those other European cities you mention don't have welfare class Dubliners in them. It's the people that are the problem. Nothing good would come from it. The less public spaces the better.

    Every other post :rolleyes:


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    #100
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,901 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Bikes can injure people. I'm sure that a pedestrian will be happy that their injury wasn't caused by a car, especially when they find out the other party is exempt from insurance.

    Never heard of this happening though. The poster was also saying how dangerous the cycle path in clontarf is. Never heard of anything happening there involving bikes either. Except for when a guy in a car mounted it last year and killed some poor woman in her 30s.


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    #101
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Never heard of this happening though. The poster was also saying how dangerous the cycle path in clontarf is. Never heard of anything happening there involving bikes either. Except for when a guy in a car mounted it last year and killed some poor woman in her 30s.

    There was an accident put pedestrian into hospital I think at the Alfie Byrne Road end, it is part of the reason why the cycle lane was re-routed iirc away from the car park.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #102
    Gardesana Pecher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭Gardesana Pecher


    We are just lucky that the British built green parks. Otherwise we would have a very unimaginative city.


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    #103
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,842 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Never heard of this happening though. The poster was also saying how dangerous the cycle path in clontarf is. Never heard of anything happening there involving bikes either. Except for when a guy in a car mounted it last year and killed some poor woman in her 30s.

    It has happened elsewhere. Google and incidents worldwide pop up. To say that a cyclist has never killed a pedestrian is a myth.

    Simply put, people selfishly do whatever the fcuk they like on bikes as the chances of getting caught by Plod are minimal.


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    #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    It has happened elsewhere. Google and incidents worldwide pop up. To say that a cyclist has never killed a pedestrian is a myth.

    Simply put, people selfishly do whatever the fcuk they like on bikes as the chances of getting caught by Plod are minimal.

    The only fatality in an incident involving a cyclist and pedestrian in Ireland, EVER, resulted in the cyclist dying. This was in the Phoenix Park in late 2017, I think, and was the first incident ever where there was a fatality in such a crash.

    Since then, there have been 430+ road deaths involving cars. 11 cyclists have been killed by cars this year alone, a 1000% increase on the entirety of bike/pedestrian deaths in the history of the state. And that's when 90% of the country was sitting on their ar$es for three quarters of the year. The poster who said it's cars who kill people, not bikes, was spot on.


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    #105
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,901 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The only fatality in an incident involving a cyclist and pedestrian in Ireland, EVER, resulted in the cyclist dying. This was in the Phoenix Park in late 2017, I think, and was the first incident ever where there was a fatality in such a crash.

    Since then, there have been 430+ road deaths involving cars. 11 cyclists have been killed by cars this year alone, a 1000% increase on the entirety of bike/pedestrian deaths in the history of the state. And that's when 90% of the country was sitting on their ar$es for three quarters of the year. The poster who said it's cars who kill people, not bikes, was spot on.

    A pedestrian walked into the cycle lane, which resulted in the death of a cyclist.
    People still moan about cyclists being dangerous even though they never harm anyone. To the poster above asking me to google it because it happens worldwide, well that's quite a big net you're casting to find incidents.


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    #106
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,901 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Simply put, people selfishly do whatever the fcuk they like on bikes as the chances of getting caught by Plod are minimal.

    Would you say the same about people in cars? I've noticed cars breaking red lights at pretty much every light change at a junction these days. All drivers speed now and again, and there are illegally parked cars pretty much everywhere you look in the city.
    I don't know why you're calling cyclists selfish, they don't cause any problems.


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    #107
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,901 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    It's not just town squares though, many suburbs and villages of Dublin don't have civic spaces or just pedestrian friendly centres, if they have a centre at all. I see Dundrum did a lot of work, and Blackrock, to make them more pedestrian friendly which is great to see.


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    #108
    vrusinov
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭vrusinov


    It appears all topics in "Dublin City" must turn into bitching about cyclist from page 5 onwards.


    Back on topic: lack of square in Dublin is one of the things annoys/surprises me. Yes, most of these squares are dead empty most of the time. But they are lovely when then aren't - it's great to have a space for a market, or an ice rink, or even for a protest that does not close main roads.

    Re junkies: I doubt you will find a lot of unsocial behavior in the middle of a large square.

    Weather argument also does not hold up: weather in Ireland is fine. Everyone who sais weather in Amsterdam is better was there only on vacation in summer.

    To compare, the weather in city I'm from is very continental: it's stable +25 - +30 in summer (ugh!), rain in autumn, sleet in spring and up to -20 in winter. Still, there is big bloody square right in the center. In winter you have Christmas tree, market and ice rink, in summer you have occasional concert, government-sponsored parade (usually military), or protest (although not recently as all protectors were beaten up - it's in Russia after all). It is lovely to have a space for all of it, even if it's used just a few times a month.


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    #109
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Big, wide open, cobbled squares (plazas, really) only look good if surrounded by decent architectural buildings, which are sadly lacking in Ireland. I'm pretty happy we don't have many of them......Mayor square in the IFSC and smithfield square being the only two off the top of my head (meeting house square is too small to be considered, really). Grand canal dock and Temple Bar aren't exactly green either, but you wouldn't really call them plazas.

    Instead, we have the beautiful, leafy green Georgian squares, which are available to the public and are much better.
    Merrion square
    Mountjoy square
    Fitzwilliam Square
    SSG
    Parnell square with the Garden of remembrance, writer's museum, chapter 1 etc.
    The basin
    You could even include Trinity on this list

    We could do with some more open public spaces, but to say we've none already is wide of the mark.


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    #110
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,232 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Forget about the history of Stephens Green, but would anyone sacrifice the greenery of Stephens Green for an open square? You could have small pop up restaurants and bars during the summer, christmas markets and events during the year?

    I think I would


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    #111
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Cienciano wrote: »
    Forget about the history of Stephens Green, but would anyone sacrifice the greenery of Stephens Green for an open square? You could have small pop up restaurants and bars during the summer, christmas markets and events during the year?
    I think I would

    I think I'd rather have Stephens Green as it is... all ages enjoyment.

    Dublin Castle was running a christmas market last year in its courtyard.
    A bit tight, but could run in summer.

    And for example, Iveagh Gardens hosts pup up food events in summer such as Taste of Dublin and concerts, but it is so weather dependent, and I've been there on good days and bad.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #112
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Valresnick wrote: »
    Poorly designed, cyclists far to close to walkers. Have you seen the speed some of them are doing on it ? Great benefit but bad design !

    I use it pretty much every day, either walking or jogging. Never come close to being hit by a cyclist, and haven't seen any collisions either.

    You're obviously doing it wrong.


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    #113
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Cienciano wrote: »
    Forget about the history of Stephens Green, but would anyone sacrifice the greenery of Stephens Green for an open square? You could have small pop up restaurants and bars during the summer, christmas markets and events during the year?

    I think I would

    I'd wager that you're in the minority there, chief. The number of people who use it daily must be in the 10's of thousands. If it was simply an open air grouping of stalls with no pond or grass or fountains or bandstand or flowers or trees then the numbers would fall off a cliff, I reckon.

    I mean, you already have the market in Merrion square of a Thursday. The place does be rammed, especially on a nice day. But that's a combination of a) plenty of space to lounge in the sun eating your grub and b) the fact that it's a bit of a novelty. People wouldn't be over there everyday buying lunch if it was there everyday. Once a week is grand.
    Amirani wrote: »
    I use it pretty much every day, either walking or jogging. Never come close to being hit by a cyclist, and haven't seen any collisions either.

    You're obviously doing it wrong.

    Exactly. The tragedy of the poor woman killed last year highlights this even more: In a space with literally thousands of cyclists and pedestrians cohabiting side by side on a daily basis, the only fatality involved a car.


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    #114
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,138 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Suggest those lauding the utter safety of cyclists and pedestrians mixing watch the crossing (lights AND 'lollipop') by the school on the North Strand any school morning. Watch some cyclists ignore lights and lollipops and hurtle through the crossing children.They had to bring in the lollipop folk, two of them and still some loonies who think they are in the Tour de France tear through the crossing, scattering children.

    There are some utter lunatics on bicycles out there, cycling like maniacs and donning the all in black costumes with no lights at night (and yes, many loons in cars too) but absolutely sick to death of this 'cyclists can do no wrong' narrative.


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    #115
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,901 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    spurious wrote: »
    Suggest those lauding the utter safety of cyclists and pedestrians mixing watch the crossing (lights AND 'lollipop') by the school on the North Strand any school morning. Watch some cyclists ignore lights and lollipops and hurtle through the crossing children.They had to bring in the lollipop folk, two of them and still some loonies who think they are in the Tour de France tear through the crossing, scattering children.

    There are some utter lunatics on bicycles out there, cycling like maniacs and donning the all in black costumes with no lights at night (and yes, many loons in cars too) but absolutely sick to death of this 'cyclists can do no wrong' narrative.

    I pass through it every day, again, they harm no one, regardless of how irritating people find them. They are not a danger, there's only one thing killing and maiming people on the roads.
    People in black with no lights will only harm themselves too, so you don't need to worry about them.


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    #116
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,138 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I pass through it every day, again, they harm no one, regardless of how irritating people find them. They are not a danger, there's only one thing killing and maiming people on the roads.
    People in black with no lights will only harm themselves too, so you don't need to worry about them.

    So you don't have an issue with them completely ignoring the rules of the road and endangering children?

    I see.


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    #117
    Biker79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Biker79


    spurious wrote: »
    Suggest those lauding the utter safety of cyclists and pedestrians mixing watch the crossing (lights AND 'lollipop') by the school on the North Strand any school morning. Watch some cyclists ignore lights and lollipops and hurtle through the crossing children.They had to bring in the lollipop folk, two of them and still some loonies who think they are in the Tour de France tear through the crossing, scattering children.

    There are some utter lunatics on bicycles out there, cycling like maniacs and donning the all in black costumes with no lights at night (and yes, many loons in cars too) but absolutely sick to death of this 'cyclists can do no wrong' narrative.

    Because they aren't a homogenous group. For every roadcraft aware, conscientious cyclist ...there will be another who thinks of themselves as a pedestrian on two wheels.


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    #118
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,901 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    spurious wrote: »
    So you don't have an issue with them completely ignoring the rules of the road and endangering children?

    I see.

    They're not endangering children. Show me the stats on cyclists hurting pedestrians. If you want to worry about something, look at the 3 or 4 cars that break the red lights at Ossary Road turning onto North Strand, speeding through them at every lights change. That could kill someone.


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    #119
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,872 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    I think I'd rather have Stephens Green as it is... all ages enjoyment.

    Dublin Castle was running a christmas market last year in its courtyard.
    A bit tight, but could run in summer.

    And for example, Iveagh Gardens hosts pup up food events in summer such as Taste of Dublin and concerts, but it is so weather dependent, and I've been there on good days and bad.

    Yes. It’s a beautiful and historic amenity, it should be left as is for people to keep enjoying...

    iveagh gardens is a great spot for these reasons you’ve outlined...it’s an often forgotten about space but its really quiet and tranquil and usually avoids the bustle of Stephens Green, going to make it my business to pop in soon.


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    #120
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,901 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    spurious wrote: »
    Suggest those lauding the utter safety of cyclists and pedestrians mixing watch the crossing (lights AND 'lollipop') by the school on the North Strand any school morning. Watch some cyclists ignore lights and lollipops and hurtle through the crossing children.They had to bring in the lollipop folk, two of them and still some loonies who think they are in the Tour de France tear through the crossing, scattering children.

    There are some utter lunatics on bicycles out there, cycling like maniacs and donning the all in black costumes with no lights at night (and yes, many loons in cars too) but absolutely sick to death of this 'cyclists can do no wrong' narrative.

    Have a look at the below, in the North Strand. I wouldn't worry about cyclists if I were you, focus on idiots like the motorists in the video.

    https://twitter.com/dubinthecity/status/1323983266450464768


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    #121
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I pass through it every day, again, they harm no one, regardless of how irritating people find them. They are not a danger, there's only one thing killing and maiming people on the roads.
    People in black with no lights will only harm themselves too, so you don't need to worry about them.

    These idiots are everywhere.

    It amazes me that the Gardai at pop up checkpoints don't take them off the road.


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