Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

Trump Is Right · 23-06-2019 4:31pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

If you can't debate with someone just call them racist

It's just a sign that the liberals are starting to lose the battle for hearts and minds in society... the average (non-political) person on the street is starting to open their eyes and see their illogical way of thinking on many important issues! And particularly the way many on the left prefer to stick their heads in the sand, rather than acknowledge obvious problems... because those problems clash with their rose-tinted world view.

I do believe voices like Gemma O'Doherty have wider support than many people realise. It's just that it's currently still unfashionable to admit this publicly for many people. (which is why the anonymity of the internet is so fundamental to growing societal movements - allowing them to be supported largely anonymously until they grow and become more socially acceptable)

By ridiculing ideas and name-calling like "racist" etc, the left are just hoping to keep certain movements as being unfashionable for as long as possible. But they are losing these battles... you can see this with Trump, UKIP / Brexit etc... most people don't stop supporting the things they are agree with just because someone laughs at them or ridicules them... ultimately you just push people into the shadows, where they become even more entrenched in their views and group together with others who share those views!

Childish tactics don't change people's minds. Only healthy debates and open discussions can do this...

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 4:35pm

Trump Is Right wrote: »

It's just a sign that the liberals are starting to lose the battle for hearts and minds in society... the average (non-political) person on the street is starting to open their eyes and see their illogical way of thinking on many important issues! And particularly the way many on the left prefer to stick their heads in the sand, rather than acknowledge obvious problems... because those problems clash with their rose-tinted world view.

I do believe voices like Gemma O'Doherty have wider support than many people realise. It's just that it's currently still unfashionable to admit this publicly for many people. (which is why the anonymity of the internet is so fundamental to growing societal movements - allowing them to be supported largely anonymously until they grow and become more socially acceptable)

By ridiculing ideas and name-calling like "racist" etc, the left are just hoping to keep certain movements as being unfashionable for as long as possible. But they are losing these battles... you can see this with Trump, UKIP / Brexit etc... most people don't stop supporting the things they are agree with just because someone laughs at them or ridicules them... ultimately you just push people into the shadows, where they become even more entrenched in their views and group together with others who share those views!

Childish tactics don't change people's minds. Only healthy debates and open discussions can do this...

That's racist. End of conversation.

pixelburp · 23-06-2019 4:57pm

Trump Is Right wrote: »

I do believe voices like Gemma O'Doherty have wider support than many people realise. It's just that it's currently still unfashionable to admit this publicly for many people. (which is why the anonymity of the internet is so fundamental to growing societal movements - allowing them to be supported largely anonymously until they grow and become more socially acceptable)

Her recent election performance does not bare this out, and the "silent majority", mentality is fantasist, conspiratorial thinking. Believe what you want to believe, but clinging to the idea that vast, silent throngs share your thoughts but are cowed by some oppressive culture is presumptuous at best. For someone pleading rational discussion, it's simplistic and thoroughly irrational to transplant your own beliefs onto everyone else for the sake of convincing yourself as to the righteousness of your cause; it's a self-perpetuating echo chamber. No poll, election, voxpop or anything suggests there is some disgruntled mass waiting for their political messiah, and Boards sure as heck ain't a normalised barometer.

Stephen15 · 23-06-2019 4:57pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

I'm sick to death of paying extortionate tax, tax, tax and more tax just to pay for those that won't look after themselves and contribute.

Exactly and so I am I and most people but it seems that a racist viewpoint nowadays if your talking about those who don't contribute who are not Irish or settled.

pixelburp · 23-06-2019 5:03pm

Ah so we've come to the libertarian phase of the discussion, where the pleading is about paying tax for [insert cause, people,industry]. Paying tax for refugees, or junkies, or theatres, sports or whatever social outcast or edge case rankles.

That's the social contract, that's how social democracies work and we don't get to choose how our tax is used. No functional democracy gives its citizens a choice on taxation direction because that'd clearly result in total disaster. "Let's create a libertarian utopia!" said no revolutionary, ever.

I'm happy to see some of the tax kitty go to humanitarian causes and helping refugees because - despite what the chronic moaners say - Ireland is a desirable, stable, prosperous country people want to move and settle down in.

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 5:07pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Ah so we've come to the libertarian phase of the discussion, where the pleading is about paying tax for [insert cause, people,industry]. Paying tax for refugees, or junkies, or theatres, sports or whatever social outcast or edge case rankles.

That's the social contract, that's how social democracies work and we don't get to choose how our tax is used. No functional democracy gives its citizens a choice on taxation direction because that'd clearly result in total disaster. "Let's create a libertarian utopia!" said no revolutionary, ever.

I'm happy to see some of the tax kitty go to humanitarian causes and helping refugees because - despite what the chronic moaners say - Ireland is a desirable, stable, prosperous country people want to move and settle down in.

Pitty about the health service, housing sector and general infrastructure outside Dublin though.

If only we had more money

ancapailldorcha · 23-06-2019 5:08pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I'm happy to see some of the tax kitty go to humanitarian causes and helping refugees because - despite what the chronic moaners say - Ireland is a desirable, stable, prosperous country people want to move and settle down in.

Yeah. Mad. Almost as is if the system as a whole works. Always room for improvement, mind but there's a lot to be thankful for.

I've no idea why people are so keen to import America's social problems. I really don't. People who share videos of Gemma and her ilk don't seem to care about anything, really beyond just sharing the content and trying to agitate people. It's rather sad.

pixelburp · 23-06-2019 5:14pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Pitty about the health service, housing sector and general infrastructure outside Dublin though.

If only we had more money

Your point being what? That if we stopped funding, say, the refugee centres, or the Abbey, - or whatever it is person X feels is a total waste of money (for me it's the gas, so we all have our blindspots I guess) - it'll magically find its way ti our health service? Please. That's literally not how economies work and if you think that the health services problems can be traced back to whatever it is we spend on the immigration service, then we ain't going to agree on much here. Someone will be along shortly with a big red bus and an enticingly big number painted on the side...

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 5:18pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Your point being what? That if we stopped funding, say, the refugee centres, or the Abbey, - or whatever it is person X feels is a total waste of money (for me it's the gas, so we all have our blindspots I guess) - it'll magically find its way ti our health service? Please. That's literally not how economies work and if you think that the health services problems can be traced back to whatever it is we spend on the immigration service, then we ain't going to agree on much here. Someone will be along shortly with a big red bus and an enticingly big number painted on the side...

Over 1 billion per annum handed to those on the live register.
What a waste of my money

Edit. It's actually 2,397,434,000 euro down the drain every year

pixelburp · 23-06-2019 5:32pm

You pay a billion in tax?? Man you need to fire your accountant.

I've been unemployed, I know many who are currently through no fault of their own, and it's a safety net for those who for whatever reason struggle to regain work. Now that I'm employed I'm paying it forward - again, that's the social contract. And I don't believe the system needs junking because of those who abuse the system and find their way into Daily Mail articles to rattle your blood pressure.

This is probably getting far from Gemma O'Doherty's very public meltdown mind you, but we have to pay tax for the country to work. Lashing out at your personal hobby horse won't magically make the HSE better in throwing 2 billion at it. If anything it'd probably make it worse.

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 5:36pm

pixelburp wrote: »

You pay a billion in tax?? Man you need to fire your accountant.

I've been unemployed, I know many who are currently through no fault of their own, and it's a safety net for those who for whatever reason struggle to regain work. Now that I'm employed I'm paying it forward - again, that's the social contract. And I don't believe the system needs junking because of those who abuse the system and find their way into Daily Mail articles to rattle your blood pressure.

This is probably getting far from Gemma O'Doherty's very public meltdown mind you, but we have to pay tax for the country to work. Lashing out at your personal hobby horse won't magically make the HSE better in throwing 2 billion at it. If anything it'd probably make it worse.

Down the drain. Wasted by layabouts who have no need to buy an alarm clock.
700,000 on waiting lists in the health system. A disgrace.
Hopefully you never have to experience it

AndrewJRenko · 23-06-2019 5:38pm

Trump Is Right wrote: »

It's just a sign that the liberals are starting to lose the battle for hearts and minds in society... the average (non-political) person on the street is starting to open their eyes and see their illogical way of thinking on many important issues! And particularly the way many on the left prefer to stick their heads in the sand, rather than acknowledge obvious problems... because those problems clash with their rose-tinted world view.

Isn't it strange though how the election results for Gemma and other extreme right wingers doesn't show any sign of them 'winning the battle for hearts and minds'.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Racist card getting played way too much.... Lost all meaning....

Probably because many of Gemma's utterances are racist.

Blueshoe wrote: »

Over 1 billion per annum handed to those on the live register.
What a waste of my money

Edit. It's actually 2,397,434,000 euro down the drain every year

Yeah, we should just go back to the work houses, sure we're half way there with the soup kitchens and food banks - let's just have people begging for food, what could possibly go wrong.

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 5:41pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Isn't it strange though how the election results for Gemma and other extreme right wingers doesn't show any sign of them 'winning the battle for hearts and minds'.

Probably because many of Gemma's utterances are racist.

Yeah, we should just go back to the work houses, sure we're half way there with the soup kitchens and food banks - let's just have people begging for food, what could possibly go wrong.

Or else they could go and get jobs. The economy won't get any better. If they can't secure any kind of job in this market then they need to take a long hard look at themselves.
No handouts to those who can't be arsed to help themselves.

It's the guberments fault. A kick in the arse and a bit of personal responsibility and pride is needed

King of Kings · 23-06-2019 5:43pm

Auguste Comte wrote: »

My granny used to say that it was easy to please the simple.

Grannies say a lot of things....

pixelburp · 23-06-2019 5:44pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Down the drain. Wasted by layabouts who have no need to buy an alarm clock.
700,000 on waiting lists in the health system. A disgrace.
Hopefully you never have to experience it

So I'm right then, the "bootstraps" argument, ok so. Everyone on the live register is a layabout because of the riches bestowed by your forced generosity. We can part ways here cos you're being naive and hyperbolic. HSE problems won't be solved by closing unemployment benefit. Social safety nets are there for a reason thank god I hope YOU never find yourself needing a help.

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 5:47pm

pixelburp wrote: »

So I'm right then, the "bootstraps" argument, ok so. Everyone on the live register is a layabout because of the riches bestowed by your forced generosity. We can part ways here cos you're being naive and hyperbolic. HSE problems won't be solved by closing unemployment benefit. Social safety nets are there for a reason thank god I hope YOU never find yourself needing a help.

All of our public services require more funding. The money isn't there to give it to them.
We can either A) increase the taxes of those who work for a living or

stop handing out freebies to those who don't contribute yet avail of said services. And in many cases they get free use of those services.
This isn't sustainable

Basic stuff

AndrewJRenko · 23-06-2019 5:58pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

All of our public services require more funding. The money isn't there to give it to them.
We can either A) increase the taxes of those who work for a living or stop handing out freebies to those who don't contribute yet avail of said services. And in many cases they get free use of those services.
This isn't sustainable

Basic stuff

Oh we have lots of other options other than A and B. How about

C) Increase taxes on those who don't work for a living - those who earn their living from properties, or stockholdings or those who inherit significant wealth or just assets generally
D) Increase taxes on the corporations that are laughing their asses off at the idea that their real profit is €20m or €30m on income of €10 billion or €20 billion. I'm looking at you, Google, Facebook, Microsoft and your fellow travellers
E) Reduce the amounts creamed off by lawyers and other experts throughout every aspect of the legal system, as Shatter tried to do .
F) Reduce the subsidies to industries supported by Enterprise Ireland, IDA, Intertrade, Failte Ireland and others - let industries actually stand on their own two feet and stop creaming off the State.

Should we keep going on a few other options?

Timberrrrrrrr · 23-06-2019 6:01pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Or else they could go and get jobs. The economy won't get any better. If they can't secure any kind of job in this market then they need to take a long hard look at themselves.
No handouts to those who can't be arsed to help themselves.

It's the guberments fault. A kick in the arse and a bit of personal responsibility and pride is needed

What does gemma and her buddy rownan work at?

punisher5112 · 23-06-2019 6:11pm

Why should I have to suffer for someone that shouldn't be even in the country but they get treatment straight away as the authorities have a duty of care but yet I have to be on a waiting list, my mother had cancer and had to lay in a corridor in A&E for over 24hours listening and seeing all sorts of abuse etc.....

I work and work hard but every so often I come across those that take it upon themselves to scream racist.... I would hate to see their reaction if I actually was and did say disrespect them which by the way I would not and this is why I'm so strongly against it been used unless of course warranted....

I treat everyone with respect and as a human being and not by their colour or nationality or whatever they're into....

Exactly the same with gay, lesbian or whatever the next phase is, I don't care what they want to be and if they're happy then I'm happy too.

Simple I've been attacked by Irish people, foreign people and travellers so nothing really different between them only their behaviour shows them up as individuals....

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 6:13pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What does gemma and her buddy rownan work at?

No idea. One is a nut job the other lives in a shed out the back of his mammies house

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 6:15pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Oh we have lots of other options other than A and B. How about

C) Increase taxes on those who don't work for a living - those who earn their living from properties, or stockholdings or those who inherit significant wealth or just assets generally
D) Increase taxes on the corporations that are laughing their asses off at the idea that their real profit is €20m or €30m on income of €10 billion or €20 billion. I'm looking at you, Google, Facebook, Microsoft and your fellow travellers
E) Reduce the amounts creamed off by lawyers and other experts throughout every aspect of the legal system, as Shatter tried to do .
F) Reduce the subsidies to industries supported by Enterprise Ireland, IDA, Intertrade, Failte Ireland and others - let industries actually stand on their own two feet and stop creaming off the State.

Should we keep going on a few other options?

That basically breaks down as tax those who participate and contribute in the economy and give it to those who don't

pixelburp · 23-06-2019 6:28pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

That basically breaks down as tax those who participate and contribute in the economy and give it to those who don't

And you're reductionism is that those who don't work choose not to. Layabouts to use your term. Instead of the obvious safety net to help those get over a period of difficulty before they find something else. There are obviously those who abuse the system but throwing the baby out with the bathwater over your short sighted attitude toward jobseekers is asinine.

Boggles · 23-06-2019 6:47pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Over 1 billion per annum handed to those on the live register.
What a waste of my money

Edit. It's actually 2,397,434,000 euro down the drain every year

1.6bn is the Job Seekers Allowance budget for this year AFAIK.

So unless you are saying all of this is spent outside the state, I can't see how it is going "down the drain".

The majority of that is being directly injected into the economy.

Boggles · 23-06-2019 6:49pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

That basically breaks down as tax those who participate and contribute in the economy and give it to those who don't

He just pointed out a solution to the problem you posed.

Blueshoe wrote: »

All of our public services require more funding. The money isn't there to give it to them.

This isn't hard follow.

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 6:55pm

Any mods on here?

dudara · 23-06-2019 6:57pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Any mods on here?

If you want a mod to look at something, use the Report Post function

dudara

dudara · 23-06-2019 7:04pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

I don't want you to look at something. I want a red card from the site so I can never come back on here again even if I wanted to deal with the clowns that frequent it.

Can you arrange it

How can I put this nicely? I’m not here to be your mother. Manage yourself and don’t engage here if it doesn’t suit you. If you want to close your account, you will find a link to do so in your User Control Panel.

dudara

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 7:08pm

Boggles wrote: »

He just pointed out a solution to the problem you posed.

This isn't hard follow.

Punish the contributors and reward the leeches.

https://youtu.be/U06jlgpMtQs

pinkyeye · 23-06-2019 7:11pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

Agree with the substance of your point, but nurses aren't "appalling poorly paid" - sure, they earn more money over in Qatar, but that's not really the same thing as being "appalling poorly paid".

As someone who processes payroll for nurses I an confirm they are anything but poorly paid, they earn fantastic money.

Problem is, especially in the HSE, they are horrifically overworked and given all the responsibility without any of the power.

A wise man once said to me you can not expect people to take over responsibility without power.

In other words if we want our nurses to be happy in this country they need to be able to prescribe drugs, order x rays and scans and admit and discharge patients.

Otherwise, all they can do is keep patients calm whilst they wait for the cocky consultants to turn up whenever they feel like it.

pinkyeye · 23-06-2019 7:23pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Never said that and many white people have raped women which is a disgrace and they should be locked up for a life sentence and I mean the rest of their life behind bars not 20 or 25 years in jail and that would apply regardless of skin colour or religion.

But there is a particular problem with Islam as it promotes the mistreatment of women and pedophilia. Look at Mohammed as a prime example he is according to Islam the perfect man who can do no wrong or evil but yet he married a 6 year old and shagged her when she was 9.

That's according to the Kuran right? Similar to that other book the bible where Mary the Virgin gave birth and a man came back to life?

I.E. Fairy stories. :rolleyes:

pinkyeye · 23-06-2019 7:32pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

That would be the belief by many Muslims that he married Aisha when she was 6 and shagged her when she was 9. I'm not a fan of any religion including Christaianity but there just seems to be a lot more credibility to it than Islam who just seems to me like a complete load of made up nonsense that goes against human nature.

Don't get me wrong Christanity has a lot of made up nonsense to it too but Islam more so. Fasting during Ramadan for example is not natural and allows an excuse for people to turn to gluttony. Christanity also doesn't have nonsense like circumcision both male and female.

There are actually many valid arguments for male circumcision, I prefer a circumcised one myself.

AndrewJRenko · 23-06-2019 7:45pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

That basically breaks down as tax those who participate and contribute in the economy and give it to those who don't

We may have different definitions of 'participate and contribute'. Maybe your definition is closer to 'sell ads based on information acquired by questionable means, facilitate buying and selling of elections, and enable bullying of vulnerable children'.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why should I have to suffer for someone that shouldn't be even in the country but they get treatment straight away as the authorities have a duty of care but yet I have to be on a waiting list, my mother had cancer and had to lay in a corridor in A&E for over 24hours listening and seeing all sorts of abuse etc.....

Are you saying that immigrants get treated in hospital before you?

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 7:53pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We may have different definitions of 'participate and contribute'. Maybe your definition is closer to 'sell ads based on information acquired by questionable means, facilitate buying and selling of elections, and enable bullying of vulnerable children'.

Are you saying that immigrants get treated in hospital before you?

Participate as in have a job and pay tax

punisher5112 · 23-06-2019 7:55pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We may have different definitions of 'participate and contribute'. Maybe your definition is closer to 'sell ads based on information acquired by questionable means, facilitate buying and selling of elections, and enable bullying of vulnerable children'.

Are you saying that immigrants get treated in hospital before you?

They get free health care and if in centres or detention they do yes.

pinkyeye · 23-06-2019 8:03pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

No idea. One is a nut job the other lives in a shed out the back of his mammies house

You do realise you're in a thread about GOD so what is the point of your countless posts about useless dole heads other than to of course point out that Gemma is one of them?

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 8:05pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

You do realise you're in a thread about GOD so what is the point of your countless posts about useless dole heads other than to of course point out that Gemma is one of them?

What's your point though?

pinkyeye · 23-06-2019 8:09pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Participate as in have a job and pay tax

Like Gemma and Rowan do?

pixelburp · 23-06-2019 8:10pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Participate as in have a job and pay tax

And when you lose your job, getting a new one is not cut and dry or guaranteed, for a host of understandable reasons as varied as there are industries to work in. Are you totally against any form of social safety net, purely on the generalisation that those without jobs are immediate layabouts? "Getting a job" isn't easy. Sorry, let me rephrase, "getting a job that pays bills and keeps a family going" isn't easy. Hell, changing jobs isn't easy. This is social democracy, this is what it means. You pay into a pot understanding that it could happen to you.

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 8:14pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

Like Gemma and Rowan do?

No they are also parasites

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 8:15pm

pixelburp wrote: »

And when you lose your job, getting a new one is not cut and dry or guaranteed, for a host of understandable reasons as varied as there are industries to work in. Are you totally against any form of social safety net, purely on the generalisation that those without jobs are immediate layabouts? "Getting a job" isn't easy. Sorry, let me rephrase, "getting a job that pays bills and keeps a family going" isn't easy. Hell, changing jobs isn't easy. This is social democracy, this is what it means. You pay into a pot understanding that it could happen to you.

Genuine cases are no issue. That's why we pay prsi. The type that don't want to work is who I'm referring to

pinkyeye · 23-06-2019 8:17pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

What's your point though?

My point is that ranting about useless dole heads in a thread about GOD and her supporter Rowan is idiotic in the extreme as they are both useless dole heads.

Don't know how that's difficult to understand?

pinkyeye · 23-06-2019 8:20pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

No they are also parasites

Okay, so you're posting here to say GOD and Rowan are parasites?

That's fair enough.

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 8:21pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

My point is that ranting about useless dole heads in a thread about GOD and her supporter Rowan is idiotic in the extreme as they are both useless dole heads.

Don't know how that's difficult to understand?

You just said they are dole heads. And iv been ranting about dole heads.
I also called her a nut job and stated that he lives in a shed in his mammies garden.
I also said both were parasites if they are leeching from the state and not contributing.

What's your issue now?

pixelburp · 23-06-2019 8:22pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Genuine cases are no issue. That's why we pay prsi. The type that don't want to work is who I'm referring to

Hang on now, this whole rabbit hole started because by your own words... "It's actually 2,397,434,000 euro down the drain every year". If you weren't advocating junking the system for being a waste of money, it sure read that way.
Nobody wants to see conartists prosper on the public purse, better monitoring is needed but I don't buy into an idea that all those on the Dole are schemers.

AndrewJRenko · 23-06-2019 8:34pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Participate as in have a job and pay tax

Everyone pays tax, every time they go into a shop or a pub.

AndrewJRenko · 23-06-2019 8:35pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

They get free health care and if in centres or detention they do yes.

They get the same health care as anyone else with their income level, right?

They don't get to skip any queue in any hospital, right?

Stephen15 · 23-06-2019 8:36pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

That's according to the Kuran right? Similar to that other book the bible where Mary the Virgin gave birth and a man came back to life?

I.E. Fairy stories. :rolleyes:

Difference is in Islam the fairy stories are believed and in Christianity most people know they're bullsh1t

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 8:37pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Everyone pays tax, every time they go into a shop or a pub.

Vat. Yes you are correct. And some get the money to buy those cigarettes and pints for free from the government.

While others pay Vat with money they have earned by getting up and going to work. These people also provide the free money for the first group. They also pay for the healthcare, education, housing and practically everything else for the first group.

Doesn't seem very fair does it comrade

Auguste Comte · 23-06-2019 9:05pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Vat. Yes you are correct. And some get the money to buy those cigarettes and pints for free from the government.

Nobody gets money for free. It is paid for by the tax payer. As someone who has been paying tax to our government for over 30 years I'm more than happy for some of it to be spent helping people who need help.

Blueshoe · 23-06-2019 9:08pm

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Nobody gets money for free. It is paid for by the tax payer. As someone who has been paying tax to our government for over 30 years I'm more than happy for some of it to be spent helping people who need help.

It's free money to those who don't contribute. They don't earn any money. They are handed it. So you are wrong.

Do you consider those you have never worked not intend to as being in need of help?

Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

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