TV Licence - ALL TV licence discussion/queries in this thread.

Elmo · 08-03-2011 11:37am

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Presumably it is pitched at people who would want broadband anyway (ahead of a TV)

Presumably the magnet service is only accessible to users of the ISP in question and there is less of a "problem" with users outside Ireland attempting to circumvent geolocking restrictions.

It is there to make magnet money.

You can sign up for the 5 TV channels online, I don't know if it is geolocked.

https://www.magnetwebtv.ie/web/login.jsp

It is really an ad for magnet. So there has to be some rights issues.

Mike 1972 · 08-03-2011 11:44am

Elmo wrote: »

It is there to make magnet money.

what an interesting concept -who would have thunk it

Elmo wrote: »

You can sign up for the 5 TV channels online, I don't know if it is geolocked.
https://www.magnetwebtv.ie/web/login.jsp

Unsupported Magnet WebTV Region
Sorry but Magnet WebTV is not available in your area!

Guess that answers that question

Elmo · 08-03-2011 12:03pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

what an interesting concept -who would have thunk it

Guess that answers that question

Sorry

Why do RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 all take programmes off their schedules on their on line feed and at the same time have ROI only live programmes???? I don't know if TV3 take their ads off programming online but both RTÉ and TG4 take their broadcast ads off line (TG4 used to show advertising online).

watty · 08-03-2011 12:37pm

Have magnet got permission?

Just because they have agreed rights for their pay TV service, gives no implied right to stream on Internet.

nacho66 · 30-03-2011 10:40pm

I don't understand one thing, and I'd hope someone can explain. If I have RTE on Sky and I'm already paying Sky for the whole packet, why the hell am I forced to pay anything to Irish government? Because it's not about the TV itself, is it?

icdg · 30-03-2011 10:46pm

nacho66 wrote: »

I don't understand one thing, and I'd hope someone can explain. If I have RTE on Sky and I'm already paying Sky for the whole packet, why the hell am I forced to pay anything to Irish government? Because it's not about the TV itself, is it?

That is it exactly what it is all about. The TV licence is premission from the government to own a television set. You might find the idea of needing premission from the state to own a piece of electronic equipment strange, but that is the law.

Sam Russell · 30-03-2011 11:34pm

You need a licence from the state to own a dog, to own a bull, to have a car on the road, to run a pub, to drive a car, to fly a plane, to sell stamps, to sell booze, and lots of other thing, as well as own a TV ( or any electronic apparatus capable of receiving broadcast TV images).

You do not need a licence to ride a horse, own a cow, own a cat, ride a bicycle, and a few other things, including owning a radio to listen to broadcasts.

nacho66 · 31-03-2011 12:07pm

So it's capability of receiving TV broadcast determines if TV license applies? Even if I don't receive a broadcast and have only Xbox connected to it? I mean, I have sky alright, but just in theory. So basically, government has no way to check if we actually watch TV on our TV sets so they assume this based on a 'capability' of an apparatus. Same thing they do with speeding ticket mail... they assume recipient got the letter.

As a matter of interest... if a license expires on 31st of March, how much time do I have to pay a standard, no penalty fee after that date? Cause paying such idiotic fees is the last thing on my list if it comes to utilizing the home budget

Elmo · 31-03-2011 1:29pm

nacho66 wrote: »

So it's capability of receiving TV broadcast determines if TV license applies? Even if I don't receive a broadcast and have only Xbox connected to it? I mean, I have sky alright, but just in theory. So basically, government has no way to check if we actually watch TV on our TV sets so they assume this based on a 'capability' of an apparatus. Same thing they do with speeding ticket mail... they assume recipient got the letter.

As a matter of interest... if a license expires on 31st of March, how much time do I have to pay a standard, no penalty fee after that date? Cause paying such idiotic fees is the last thing on my list if it comes to utilizing the home budget

Will you pay sky as a priority?

nacho66 · 31-03-2011 5:17pm

Elmo wrote: »

Will you pay sky as a priority?

Of course. There are obvious reasons behind paying regular sky, phone, broadband or electricity bills, aren't there? Like continuity of the actual service for example. Sky is direct debit so it's kinda priority anyway

Paying license is just throwing 160e away. You don't get any service or material product for it. It's a very expensive feeling that you're 'clean', a 'protection money' in a way. So expensive and so frustrating in it's sense that no wonder people look for ways to avoid paying it.

gman2k · 31-03-2011 11:32pm

nacho66 wrote: »

Sky is direct debit so it's kinda priority anyway

Paying license is just throwing 160e away.

What????????

How is paying Sky a priority?
So you would rather pay a foreign entity for a TV service (that includes RTE) but you feel RTE should not be funded by you?

Elmo · 01-04-2011 12:16pm

I have to agree with gman2k nacho66

Sky do very little for this country bar their Cork based Call Centre, to be honest Call Centres are great ("super") and all, but an Irish produced drama employing people is far more attractive to me.

You can pay your TV Licence by Direct Debit if you so wish.

Sky don't even produce that many English Programmes (I know in recent years and in the future they want more) but their English programming outside of News and Sport is very lack luster.

The €160 per year doesn't just cover TV, unlike the "from €276 per year" which really only goes into some network time, buying US rights for programming and some UK rights such as BBC and Channel 4. Very little of that €276 goes into back into the Irish Economy.

Imagine Sky get at least €100,000,000 from their Irish subscribers (And that's not including premium channels or advertising etc).

nacho66 · 01-04-2011 1:43pm

Such approach is a little bit of a mine field to be honest so I need to step gently. I don't look at this subject from 'what's good for Ireland' point of view. I look at it as a consumer who doesn't really watch RTE, which means, a consumer that doesn't get any benefit from paying that license. If it's an economy boost why not call it tax and just replace it with actual tax rise? I mean, if everyone that have TV (which I'm guessing is over 90% of the country) have to pay, it doesn't differ from tax whatsoever. But hence it's still called TV license I understand it is a RTE funding fee. So basically I'm paying so other people could watch it

PS: Seems to me that there's no better solution to this than just 'force' people to pay for something they don't use. Maybe it's time to change the idea about public TV, remove it from foreign platform like Sky and get it's own 'decoder'

gman2k · 01-04-2011 1:57pm

We could go the America route, where there is no license fee, but TV is unwatchable due to
A. Rubbish content.
B. Ads every 7 minutes.

TV licence is in effect a property tax, but collected very inefficiently, (and spent very inefficiently in fairness).
But if you were to remove it, all you would have on the TV is rubbish reality programming, Strictly Come Ice Factor in the Jungle etc.
Properly funded TV results in functioning current affairs and news public service programming.
Irish TV is actually very good quality compared to UK TV (which is reckoned to have the best TV in the world). For comparison, have a look at foreign TV when on holidays or on Sat, Italian TV in particular springs to mind.

Elmo · 01-04-2011 2:17pm

nacho66 wrote: »

Such approach is a little bit of a mine field to be honest so I need to step gently. I don't look at this subject from 'what's good for Ireland' point of view. I look at it as a consumer who doesn't really watch RTE, which means, a consumer that doesn't get any benefit from paying that license. If it's an economy boost why not call it tax and just replace it with actual tax rise? I mean, if everyone that have TV (which I'm guessing is over 90% of the country) have to pay, it doesn't differ from tax whatsoever. But hence it's still called TV license I understand it is a RTE funding fee. So basically I'm paying so other people could watch it

50% of the audience listen to or watch RTÉ.

We pay the licence fee but it benefits far more than just television. Sky TV does not. For example I listen to the radio on and off but am not loyal to any one service, however I do tend to stay away from most local radio bar perhaps Phantom FM. RTÉ Radio gets part of the licence fee, yet anyone with out a TV signal receiver can listen to RTÉ Radio for free, should we reintroduce a Radio Licence? This year I have seen the NSO twice, which is unusual for me, yet the licence fee is again spent on such an organisation. I happen to use RTÉ NL to watch some TV on the Saorview network but it mostly comes from UPC (something I don't really need when I could always put up an FTA sat and an Ariel and still receive much of my basic cable content).

I agree with the notion on putting the licence fee on all electrical bills regardless of having a receiver or not, as a levy but one that is not given to the Government but directly the national broadcaster, the S&V fund and the national Irish Language Broadcaster.

In terms of value Sky doesn't provide it. You will notice that the TV Licence Fee is called a Fee, while UPC and Sky call their customers subscribers. This idea that we should call it what it is just a technicality. It is a Licence which amounts to a Tax in most cases. Why not call Water Charges a Tax? or Stamp Duty a Tax? Why use the word duty? its just a stupid argument its a licence.

TV is a very expensive business weather you like it or not.

nacho66 · 01-04-2011 2:50pm

Expensive or not it still doesn't justify to charge any fees only because I have TV set! Why those that don't have TV and don't watch RTE (as a result) don't pay but those who have TV but still don't watch RTE - have to pay. Do you see that nonsense? Does it make someone who lives without a TV-set a worse citizen because he is not funding a TV quality and development, no matter if it's good or bad, broken with ads or not?

And how many ads there are on American TV, how bad is British television and how good is RTE compared to them is really not the point here

Also, I personally think that Sky does provide in a way that covers my demands. But even if doesn't it was still my choice to get it. Where the only choice whether to pay tv license or not is equal to whether to get a TV-set or not

Elmo · 01-04-2011 3:24pm

nacho66 wrote: »

Also, I personally think that Sky does provide in a way that covers my demands. But even if doesn't it was still my choice to get it. Where the only choice whether to pay tv license or not is equal to whether to get a TV-set or not

Taxes aren't a choice. Getting a TV set is a choice. I don't know what you personally subscribe to on Sky so I can't comment on how much choice you get from it, you do get the choice of watching Irish programming on it.

My point about Radio and NSO is that it is of benefit too many more people than just you.

Going by what your saying close RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 and let multinationals run the service. And any content should just be from abroad. But at least you have a choice of who you pay to watch Sky 1.

nacho66 · 01-04-2011 3:52pm

Elmo wrote: »

Taxes aren't a choice. Getting a TV set is a choice. I don't know what you personally subscribe to on Sky so I can't comment on how much choice you get from it, you do get the choice of watching Irish programming on it.

My point about Radio and NSO is that it is of benefit too many more people than just you.

Going by what your saying close RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 and let multinationals run the service. And any content should just be from abroad. But at least you have a choice of who you pay to watch Sky 1.

No, not close everything... I'm far from saying that. Tho I think you can understand the point I made about the silliness of connecting RTE funding fees with the fact of having TV apparatus. Let me repeat this... Why do I, who has TV-set but don't watch RTE, have to pay and a person who also doesn't watch RTE (because of not having a TV-set), doesn't pay. Can you see that? In the end we both don't watch RTE but only one of Us pays the fee. How does it stack against all the talking about quality, development and public mission of Irish TV.

Maybe it's time for a change. Maybe Irish TV should be available through a decoder only which would be disabled if the fee is not paid. That would sort two problems out instantly. People like me would not b***h about the idea to pay for what they don't use and people that avoid to pay would not have access to the broadcast. I'm pretty sure the income balance after such change would be the same as for every person that doesn't need it there would be one person that needs it but avoids paying

And as to Sky, I have no problems saying what I expect from it. I use my tv-set for 4 things. 1 - Xbox, 2 - sports (f1/football), 3 - movies / series (that's where sky movies and atlantic comes in handy) and 4 - national geographic and history. And to make no mistake, it's not like I combine all 4 within one evening as I already have little spare time as it is and if I do I spend most of it in front of my PC anyway (that's assuming I'm at home during eg. weekend). So in general I could say I watch little TV and in very limited channel range, but If I do, Sky provides what I need.

Elmo · 01-04-2011 4:00pm

nacho66 wrote: »

Maybe it's time for a change. Maybe Irish TV should be available through a decoder only which would be disabled if the fee is not paid. That would sort two problems out instantly. People like me would not b***h about the idea to pay for what they don't use and people that avoid to pay would not have access to the broadcast. I'm pretty sure the income balance after such change would be the same as for every person that doesn't need it there would be one person that needs it but avoids paying

You would see a significant reduction in the number of programmes coming from Ireland instantly. Weather you like it or not RTÉ is run on a shoe string budget (not just TV and yes before you say it I have an issue with some wage packets also).

Fair City ~ 100,000 per hour
EastEnders ~ 300,000 per hour
Irish rights for US programming ~ 2000 per hour
UK rights for US programming anything from 100,000 to 500,000 per hour

Mr McBoatface · 01-04-2011 4:04pm

nacho66 wrote: »

Maybe it's time for a change. Maybe Irish TV should be available through a decoder only which would be disabled if the fee is not paid. That would sort two problems out instantly. People like me would not b***h about the idea to pay for what they don't use and people that avoid to pay would not have access to the broadcast.

A ridiculous suggestion, how much would that cost to introduce ? What about all the people who have Free-To-Air DTT & Satellite/DTT combo's Set Top Boxes. Their equipment would become useless should such a hair-brain scheme be introduced.

jjmcclure · 01-04-2011 4:12pm

Here's a question! If you have TV in your car do you need a TV license??

nacho66 · 01-04-2011 4:12pm

jobyrne30 wrote: »

A ridiculous suggestion, how much would that cost to introduce ? What about all the people who have Free-To-Air DTT & Satellite/DTT combo's Set Top Boxes. Their equipment would become useless should such a hair-brain scheme be introduced.

And I'm sure by 'useless' you mean the money they spent on that gear would be lost. Well, that's exactly what happens to my money when I pay for TV license

I realize how country and economy works. But that doesn't mean that we have to keep each ridiculous system only because it would require money to introduce a new one. Of course it would require money, everything does. That's what the politics are for.. to sort out the money problem

Following jjmcclure here's another question... do you need a license if you happen to watch RTE Online player

Mike 1972 · 02-04-2011 7:43am

jobyrne30 wrote: »

A ridiculous suggestion, how much would that cost to introduce ? What about all the people who have Free-To-Air DTT & Satellite/DTT combo's Set Top Boxes. Their equipment would become useless should such a hair-brain scheme be introduced.

CAM ?

jjmcclure wrote: »

Here's a question! If you have TV in your car do you need a TV license??

Yes. Unlike in the UK ones house licence wouldnt cover it.

In fact in theory you should buy a licence for your car even if you are just moving a set from one place to another (i.e. not actually using it in the car) and even if you only do so once a year. This is one of the best examples of how stupid the implementation of the TV licensing law in Ireland really is.

Elmo wrote: »

You would see a significant reduction in the number of programmes coming from Ireland instantly.

And wouldnt it be such a tragedy if the production of a programme like Winning Streak were to transfer from Ireland to say Uzbekistan ?

Elmo · 02-04-2011 11:40am

Mike 1972 wrote: »

And wouldnt it be such a tragedy if the production of a programme like Winning Streak were to transfer from Ireland to say Uzbekistan ?

If you want you can pick on the more populist programmes. You are right however it would be a tragedy if In it to win it was axed.

Mr McBoatface · 02-04-2011 1:45pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

CAM ?

Not all STB have CAM slot's and you haven't addressed the issue of cost. How much money would be wasted by issuing a decoding card to the house holds that pay. What if you have several TV you would need several decoding cards and how much extra would that cost.

It's a ridiculous idea to suggest, it's not viable at all.

nacho66 · 03-04-2011 12:35am

I'm sure that paying wages to hundreds of inspectors costs much too. And the result is that thousands of people (I think it's a fair number to assume) that have TV-sets don't pay TV license fee (regardless of if they watch RTE or not). So what's ridiculous is how the current system works.

I don't see any reason to defend current system, as many here do. This should be simple... you want to watch RTE, pay license. You don't want watch RTE, fair enough, your choice, you don't have to pay anything. Now it's - if you don't want to watch RTE, don't buy a TV-set. How stupid it is?

jakdelad · 03-04-2011 5:23pm

my tv went bust in febuary
my tv licence expires in march
i am not buying a new tv till the autumn [tv free summer]
however a friend has said if i purchase a new licence in september
it will be backdated till march??? is this true, and if it is why???

Shea O'Meara · 03-04-2011 6:56pm

not really politics but...

The law is that if you have an apparatus capable of receiving broadcast signals, you must have a licence.
Yes, they would normally back date your licence, as it's assumed you still had a telly after the licence expired.
When purchasing the new one, do it in a post office, face to face with someone and state your case. They can manually enter any start date for a licence. They generally ask if it's your first licence. If so they'll start from the current month, if not, find you on the system and date it from when the last one expired.
So state your case and I see no reason they wouldn't start it from that date, but the way things are, there's a good chance they'll screw you anyway.

sceptre · 03-04-2011 7:14pm

Let's try the Television board - this has nothing to do with Politics after all...

Elmo · 04-04-2011 11:42am

nacho66 wrote: »

I'm sure that paying wages to hundreds of inspectors costs much too. And the result is that thousands of people (I think it's a fair number to assume) that have TV-sets don't pay TV license fee (regardless of if they watch RTE or not). So what's ridiculous is how the current system works.

I don't think anyone is defending the system of collection which cost €10million per year.

However I don't see why sky provide as you have put it. A choice yes but nothing much else. RTÉ are also a choice. My issue with the title of the TV licence fee is not the word licence but the word TV as it covers more than just TV.

As I said I rarely go to see the NSO so why should I pay for it?

gman2k · 04-04-2011 11:54am

Elmo wrote: »

As I said I rarely go to see the NSO so why should I pay for it?

Society....the common good....etc.

I don't use roads in Mayo, therefore should I not get some tax back?
I don't go to horseracing, should I get another refund?

Etc, etc.

It's for the common good of society that we all pay for things that are useful to most people.
Now, I agree that the TV licence is too expensive here (along with everything else) and that the way of collecting it is inefficient, but in general, I agree it provides a good service to most people. Therefore, everyone should contribute to it's costs.

Elmo · 04-04-2011 12:52pm

gman2k wrote: »

Society....the common good....etc..

Rhetorical question.

Now, I agree that the TV licence is too expensive here (along with everything else).

In comparison to?

Switzerland ~360.65
Austria ~335.14
Norway ~ 315.57
Denmark ~ 303.35
Finland ~ 253.80
Sweden ~ 232.47
Iceland ~ 213.50
Germany ~ 204.36
United Kingdom ~ 174.99
Belgium ~ 172.39
Ireland = 160.00

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_licence#Television_licences_around_the_world

Up to the 1990s we had one of the lowest in Europe.

jakdelad · 04-04-2011 7:09pm

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

not really politics but...

The law is that if you have an apparatus capable of receiving broadcast signals, you must have a licence.
Yes, they would normally back date your licence, as it's assumed you still had a telly after the licence expired.
When purchasing the new one, do it in a post office, face to face with someone and state your case. They can manually enter any start date for a licence. They generally ask if it's your first licence. If so they'll start from the current month, if not, find you on the system and date it from when the last one expired.
So state your case and I see no reason they wouldn't start it from that date, but the way things are, there's a good chance they'll screw you anyway.

the screwing bit
thats what i was afraid of............
surley they cant make you pay for something based on an assumption
what sort of law is that???
are you within your rights to say i am only paying from today?

Riskymove · 05-04-2011 3:53pm

your household, business or institution possesses a television or equipment capable of receiving a television signal, you are required by law to have a television licence. Even if the television or other equipment is broken and currently unable to receive a signal, it is regarded as capable of being repaired so it can receive a signal and you must hold a licence for it. Failure to produce evidence of a television licence to an inspector can result in a court appearance and on conviction, you can receive a substantial fine. People who have been fined and who have breached court orders directing them to pay their television licence can be imprisoned.

from citizens info

jakdelad · 05-04-2011 4:46pm

Riskymove wrote: »

from citizens info

who said communist china was a bad place to live

imprisoned for not paying your tv licence fine
however swindle billions with banks politicians developers
and its fine

get me off this rock
is a computer regarded as a tv

aidan_walsh · 05-04-2011 4:55pm

is a computer regarded as a tv

Not unless it contains a tuner card.

ronkmonster · 05-04-2011 5:08pm

Elmo wrote: »

You would see a significant reduction in the number of programmes coming from Ireland instantly. Weather you like it or not RTÉ is run on a shoe string budget (not just TV and yes before you say it I have an issue with some wage packets also).

If I have no interest in watching RTE why would I care if RTE programmes stop being made?

If the only way to keep making them to extort money from non viewers then they shouldn't be made or charge people who want it the real cost. I'm not paying for someone else to get shows they want.

Elmo · 05-04-2011 5:16pm

ronkmonster wrote: »

If I have no interest in watching RTE why would I care if RTE programmes stop being made?

It's also about the independent sector, which receive nearly 50% of the licence fee. (More when you include S&V).

As I said the pay TV market is worth about €500m (prob more) per year very little of which is used in Ireland bar some call centres, installations and some mantainance. However UPC did invest a significant amount into upgrades. But no Irish Producer benefits from Sky or UPC.

Basq · 05-04-2011 5:20pm

Moved to Broadcasting.. but should now to be merged to 'TV Licence' sticky.

ronkmonster · 05-04-2011 5:49pm

Elmo wrote: »

It's also about the independent sector, which receive nearly 50% of the licence fee. (More when you include S&V).

As I said the pay TV market is worth about €500m (prob more) per year very little of which is used in Ireland bar some call centres, installations and some mantainance. However UPC did invest a significant amount into upgrades. But no Irish Producer benefits from Sky or UPC.

If they can't survive without being subsidized then they should shutdown. I pay for my entertainment, let others pay for their own at real prices.

nacho66 · 05-04-2011 7:47pm

gman2k wrote: »

Society....the common good....etc.
.

Yeah? Then why 'society' and 'common good' is not being contributed by people that don't have TV sets? Do you get my point? I don't understand why an electronical apparatus decides if I one makes contribution or not. It's either COMMON good or not

There are many different fees that we pay... I pay tax, but I'm using public service in various shapes everyday. I pay car tax and fuel duty but I drive that very car using that fuel. I pay flight fares, but in the end I travel. Insurances, bills... Of all payments, TV license is the only one that I actually get no real benefit from. If it's created for 'society' (cause surely there's no use for me) rename it from TV license to tax and make everyone pay, not only those with TV sets (those without can still listen to radio after all)

AntiRip · 06-04-2011 1:04pm

Get you license under a different name, your partner or other family member. It's a new license then. I did that a couple of times without problems.

jakdelad · 06-04-2011 5:45pm

if you say you do not posess a tv please go away
can they get search warrant
considering a superintendant has to sign off on a warrant?
does the garda regularly oblige tv licence inspectors
what happens ??do they come back and bang on your door
i have a warrant open up or we ll kick down the door
seems a tad drastic to gouge the licence fee out of folk that way

Sam Russell · 06-04-2011 7:32pm

jakdelad wrote: »

if you say you do not posess a tv please go away
can they get search warrant
considering a superintendant has to sign off on a warrant?
does the garda regularly oblige tv licence inspectors
what happens ??do they come back and bang on your door
i have a warrant open up or we ll kick down the door
seems a tad drastic to gouge the licence fee out of folk that way

They return with a Garda armed with a warrant.

jakdelad · 06-04-2011 8:57pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

They return with a Garda armed with a warrant.

are you serious?
a super signs a warrant
and they can come and kick in your door,for to find out if you got a tv?
are search warrants that handy got ???

excollier · 06-04-2011 9:30pm

You seem surprised.

jakdelad · 06-04-2011 9:48pm

excollier wrote: »

You seem surprised.

jesus for a tv licence???
a warrant a garda and an inspector
mind you its not surprising when you can get 5yrs in jail for fireworks
you wouldent get that for carrying a knife
just an other example of our ahem laws

Sam Russell · 07-04-2011 9:30am

I would think that this would only be used as a last resort.

Mike 1972 · 07-04-2011 5:12pm

Riskymove wrote: »

from citizens info

Ridiculous nonsense.

imfml · 07-04-2011 5:26pm

Why not remove the broken tv from your premisses, that way you legally do not need a licence for now, and can show them when they knock around instead of getting a door kicked in.

When you get a new tv, keep the receipt and show it at the post office when you are getting your next tv licence. It would seem unreasonable if they didn't believe you at that stage.

If you refuse to backpay in the autumn, and say you are only willing to pay 1 year from the day you are buying, I can't see them refusing to sell you one until you backpay, even with the way things are, the Post Office clerk is surely just there to sell the licnece, not to enforce the (ridiculous) law.

TV Licence - ALL TV licence discussion/queries in this thread.

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