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Graham Linehan given police warning for "transphobia"

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Comments

  • #252
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    BBFAN wrote: »
    Name one real life example.

    Karen white

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-45825838
    A transgender prisoner who sexually assaulted two inmates at a women's jail and had previously raped two other women has been given a life sentence.

    Karen White attacked two women in 2017 while on remand at HMP New Hall, in Wakefield, for other offences.

    White, 52, who is transitioning, was described as a "predator" who was a danger to women and children.

    She must serve a minimum of nine-and-a-half years for rape, sexual assault and wounding, Leeds Crown Court was told.

    The court heard White, who was born male and now identifies as a woman, used her "transgender persona" to put herself in contact with vulnerable women.

    Anyway, it seems like this won't happen again now that there are plans to build facilities for transgender prisoners, which is a good thing for the safety of everyone.


  • #253
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Karen white

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-45825838



    Anyway, it seems like this won't happen again now that there are plans to build facilities for trans gender prisoners which is a good thing.

    That's spooky! You even used the same BBC link as me. Did you do the same as me and skip past the first few Google links to Guardian articles? :-)


  • #254
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Dante7 wrote: »
    That's spooky! You even used the same BBC link as me. Did you do the same as me and skip past the first few Google links to Guardian articles? :-)

    Can't stand the guardian anymore tbh, it used to be my go to newspaper lol

    Interesting how the BBC also lead with the posed picture of White wearing make up and a wig. You have to scroll down a bit to see what this person really looks like. Imagine being a woman locked up with a scary looking male person like that. I'm glad the prison authorities came to their senses.

    Here is another case from the UK of a male transferring to a female prison and assaulting inmates

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/trans-murderer-serving-life-will-receive-80k-gender-reassignment/
    Green, 27, was found guilty of murder and jailed for life in 2013 after she tortured, sexually assaulted and beat a man to death with two accomplices.

    Since being incarcerated, Green from Glenrothes, Fife, has been removed from a women’s prison for sexually assaulting other inmates.


  • #255
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    What I have found interesting in this debate is that a lot of the right-on wokie blokies who are blindly defending the trans activists, don't realise that they are campaigning for rights that would seriously damage real women's rights. The mind boggles.


  • #256
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Interesting how the BBC also lead with the posed picture of White wearing make up and a wig. You have to scroll down a bit to see what this person really looks like. Imagine being a woman locked up with a scary looking male person like that. I'm glad the prison authorities came to their senses.

    Here is another case from the UK of a male transferring to a female prison and assaulting inmates

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/trans-murderer-serving-life-will-receive-80k-gender-reassignment/

    White was suspiciously not transgender, just threw on a wig and makeup claiming to be, no medical transition at all. As for Green, other papers have said she never sexually assaulted any female prisoners, it was consensual with no charges pending.

    Both inmates had previous sexual assault convictions so should have never been mixed among the general prisoner population just like other sex offenders.
    ceadaoin wrote:
    Anyway, it seems like this won't happen again now that there are plans to build facilities for transgender prisoners, which is a good thing for the safety of everyone.

    Think you're generalising there. The rethink seems to be related to self ID prisoners, not those who have undergone medical transition.


  • #257
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    klaaaz wrote: »
    White was suspiciously not transgender, just threw on a wig and makeup claiming to be, no medical transition at all.

    What? You mean he just self ID’ed to take advantage of the system?:rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • #258
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Candamir wrote: »
    What? You mean he just self ID’ed to take advantage of the system?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Not that simple, some local prison board who themselves are being investigated by their superiors failed to take account of the person's previous sexual assault convictions. As said, anyone who has previous convictions for sexual assault should be separated away from the general prison population, no exceptions.


  • #259
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Not that simple, some local prison board who themselves are being investigated by their superiors failed to take account of the person's previous sexual assault convictions. As said, anyone who has previous convictions for sexual assault should be separated away from the general prison population, no exceptions.

    I think you’ve missed the point there!


  • #260
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,314 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I would be interested if anyone here watched the first episode of the channel 4 programme "the making of me"?

    I thought it was a tough but really interesting watch, it really showed you what a tough time the person transitioning and the family etc involved can have.

    I found the story of Jackie (who was originally Simon) especially moving.


  • #261
    branie2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,305 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    gmisk wrote: »
    I would be interested if anyone here watched the first episode of the channel 4 programme "the making of me"?

    I thought it was a tough but really interesting watch, it really showed you what a tough time the person transitioning and the family etc involved can have.

    I found the story of Jackie (who was originally Simon) especially moving.

    Agreed; I thought her story was very good.


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  • #262
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,314 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    branie2 wrote: »
    Agreed; I thought her story was very good.
    The reaction from her workmates was so heartwarming.
    I was so impressed with her wife as well, what a woman, it must have been extremely tough after being married for 35 years.


  • #263
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    klaaaz wrote: »
    White was suspiciously not transgender, just threw on a wig and makeup claiming to be, no medical transition at all. As for Green, other papers have said she never sexually assaulted any female prisoners, it was consensual with no charges pending.

    Both inmates had previous sexual assault convictions so should have never been mixed among the general prisoner population just like other sex offenders.

    Yeah that's kind of the point ffs. Self id allows anyone to identify their way into women's prison. The poster asked for one example of a violent male who did this and I gave 2.

    So it's "it doesn't happen", then when it does happen it's never by an actual transgender person. It's no true scotsman. Let's not forget there were transactivists attacking people for "misgendering" white and saying he should be moved back to a women's prisons and that they were prepared to "die on rapist hill" (yes, that happened)

    How do you suggest we distinguish between "fake" and genuine trans people for the purposes of prison housing?


    If it is a definite transgender person, such as Paris Green, then we're back to it didn't happen. I mean, some trans people do bad things, the same as any other people. There's a case in Australia where an inmate was raped and left pregnant by a fellow inmate who has since gone on to fully transition. The lesson is that facilities should never be mixed sex, regardless of the gender identity of the prisoners


  • #264
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    How do you suggest we distinguish between "fake" and genuine trans people for the purposes of prison housing?

    On this point, if someone is actually undergoing or have undergone a medical transition, I think that's a definite intention of being genuine.


  • #265
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    klaaaz wrote: »
    On this point, if someone is actually undergoing or have undergone a medical transition, I think that's a definite intention of being genuine.

    That's fair enough, it certainly is an indication that someone is genuine. Do you mean surgery or just hormones? Only a minority actually "fully" transition, as in gender reassignment surgery, so it would seem unfair to say anything but that isn't genuine? It's a huge deal to go through that and I don't blame people for not doing it, even though they might view themselves as the opposite sex and live as such.

    Then you have the other extreme where its being advocated that only the say so of the person is required for them to be treated as their chosen gender, even though only superficial steps have been taken, if any at all. Surely we can agree that this just doesn't work and is bound to be exploited, and has been?


  • #266
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    That's fair enough, it certainly is an indication that someone is genuine. Do you mean surgery or just hormones? Only a minority actually "fully" transition, as in gender reassignment surgery, so it would seem unfair to say anything but that isn't genuine? It's a huge deal to go through that and I don't blame people for not doing it, even though they might view themselves as the opposite sex and live as such.

    Then you have the other extreme where its being advocated that only the say so of the person is required for them to be treated as their chosen gender, even though only superficial steps have been taken, if any at all. Surely we can agree that this just doesn't work and is bound to be exploited, and has been?

    Some of it is a tricky area hence the prison service over there say they make decisions on a case by case basis. It's not simply a blanket ban on every single transgender person in female prisons like the radicals who post here and wish for.
    As we know a full medical transition involves hormonal and physical changes ending up with surgery, I think this grouping should be not affected by any new rules, they'd likely have the required legal gender cert by UK law presently and which was law for over a decade before now.
    As for those who have started their medical transition journey, they'll have the hormonal and physical changes but no surgery yet, this grouping should not be in a men's prison (there were a few suicides by trans prisoners in the UK over their brutal treatment in a mens prison).
    And yes, the chancers like White who had previous convictions for sexual assault should never have been in a female prison, hopefully someone high up gets sacked over that.


  • #267
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Some of it is a tricky area hence the prison service over there say they make decisions on a case by case basis. It's not simply a blanket ban on every single transgender person in female prisons like the radicals who post here and wish for.
    As we know a full medical transition involves hormonal and physical changes ending up with surgery, I think this grouping should be not affected by any new rules, they'd likely have the required legal gender cert by UK law presently and which was law for over a decade before now.
    As for those who have started their medical transition journey, they'll have the hormonal and physical changes but no surgery yet, this grouping should not be in a men's prison (there were a few suicides by trans prisoners in the UK over their brutal treatment in a mens prison).
    And yes, the chancers like White who had previous convictions for sexual assault should never have been in a female prison, hopefully someone high up gets sacked over that.

    I don't think they should be in men's prisons, obviously that isn't safe. But likewise, I don't think that they automatically belong with women, especially if they have convictions for violent crime. Most women in prison are there for non violent offences, and have been subjected to abuse from men at some stage in their lives. It's not fair or safe to force them to share with males, especially those who are "fully intact" for want of a better phrase.

    What about trans men? No one in their right mind would argue for them to be placed in a male prison, and I can't see any of them wanting to tbh.

    Yes, a case by case review is best I think, with specific transgender facilities available.


  • #268
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    I don't think they should be in men's prisons, obviously that isn't safe. But likewise, I don't think that they automatically belong with women, especially if they have convictions for violent crime. Most women in prison are there for non violent offences, and have been subjected to abuse from men at some stage in their lives. It's not fair or safe to force them to share with males, especially those who are "fully intact" for want of a better phrase.

    What about trans men? No one in their right mind would argue for them to be placed in a male prison, and I can't see any of them wanting to tbh.

    Yes, a case by case review is best I think, with specific transgender facilities available.

    Violent crime offenders I'd agree should be separate too. About "fully intact" or "no surgery yet", are the showers communal in a women's prison or is the showering/changing done in cubicles where nothing is seen?
    About transmen which we rarely hear about in prison due to the sensationalist tabloids obsession with trans women, which prison do they be put in the UK?


  • #269
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Violent crime offenders I'd agree should be separate too. About "fully intact" or "no surgery yet", are the showers communal in a women's prison or is the showering/changing done in cubicles where nothing is seen?
    About transmen which we rarely hear about in prison due to the sensationalist tabloids obsession with trans women, which prison do they be put in the UK?

    No. Due to the fact that what transman in their right mind is going to want to go to male prison? They are not agitating for it. And why not? Well, it's to do with ...dun dun dun...sex organs, and the danger the transmen would undoubtedly put themselves in. It is TIMs who have been pushing this envelope.

    The ''obsession'' can be explained from a very recent official UK statistic where the policy-making body estimated that up to 1000 male -bodied prisoners would identify as transwomen in a short time. Yep, that's them bigoted, transphobic, gubbermint officials, for ya. 1000. One Thousand. There are 4000 women prisoners in total in the uk. 1 in 5 looked like they were going to be transwomen so someone had to cop the fluck on before the place fell down around their ears.
    The change has become more urgent after officials forecast that numbers of trans or non-binary prisoners in England and Wales could rise to 1,000, up from 139 last year. There are about 4,000 biological women in prison.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prisons-to-get-transgender-wings-6b2xpr88g


  • #270
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    klaaaz wrote: »
    About transmen which we rarely hear about in prison due to the sensationalist tabloids obsession with trans women, which prison do they be put in the UK?


    I don't know? I've not heard of any demanding to be put in with men anyway. I wonder why that is. where do you think trans men should be housed yourself?


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  • #271
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Zorya wrote: »
    No. Due to the fact that what transman in their right mind is going to want to go to male prison? They are not agitating for it. And why not? Well, it's to do with ...dun dun dun...sex organs, and the danger the transmen would undoubtedly put themselves in. It is TIMs who have been pushing this envelope.

    The ''obsession'' can be explained from a very recent official UK statistic where the policy-making body estimated that up to 1000 male -bodied prisoners would identify as transwomen in a short time. Yep, that's them bigoted, transphobic, gubbermint officials, for ya. 1000. One Thousand. There are 4000 women prisoners in total in the uk. 1 in 5 looked like they were going to be transwomen so someone had to cop the fluck on before the place fell down around their ears.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prisons-to-get-transgender-wings-6b2xpr88g

    You do go on some rants, I give you that. The Times link is behind a paywall unless you copy and paste the article here for all to see?

    Who is TIM?
    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    I don't know? I've not heard of any demanding to be put in with men anyway. I wonder why that is. where do you think trans men should be housed yourself?

    I certainly think trans men should not be placed in a men's prison unless they request it. Most of the violent bigotry against anything transgender is from misogynistic, intolerant and sometimes violent males, they especially have a target for trans women. Just look at here on boards at the various threads at how a transgender person is treated as sub-human with hate spewing mostly from male contributors. (there are lots of good men too in case any men get offended :) )


  • #272
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Just look at here on boards at the various threads at how a transgender person is treated as sub-human with hate spewing mostly from male contributors.
    Can you give linked examples of being "treated as sub human", a bit of "hate spewing" would help too. If you can't well...

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #273
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    klaaaz wrote: »
    You do go on some rants, I give you that. The Times link is behind a paywall unless you copy and paste the article here for all to see?

    Who is TIM?



    I certainly think trans men should not be placed in a men's prison unless they request it. Most of the violent bigotry against anything transgender is from misogynistic, intolerant and sometimes violent males, they especially have a target for trans women. Just look at here on boards at the various threads at how a transgender person is treated as sub-human with hate spewing mostly from male contributors. (there are lots of good men too in case any men get offended :) )

    Yes I agree that the vast majority of transphobic abuse and violence comes from males. That's why I don't understand why the current crop of extreme transactivists direct their hatred towards women and with their threats of rape and violence, act very much like misogynistic men. Perhaps because they are the "safe" target?

    There is no way on Earth a trans man would be safe in a men's prison and it would be unethical to place him there, even if he requested it.


  • #274
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    I made it to the last post on page one, then wanted to set fire to my own head.


  • #275
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Can you give linked examples of being "treated as sub human", a bit of "hate spewing" would help too. If you can't well...

    Really, you know what goes on here. You saw it on the other thread describing transgender people as having "mental illness" and "not normal"
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057955579, threadstarter quoted an ultra-conservative American site!!
    Page 2 on this thread has it's own vile https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057955584
    Page 2 of the other Linehan thread the hatred starts. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057948252&page=2
    Page 10 on this thread here it starts to get really ugly too.
    And that's only from the last few days, all threads started by what looks like some posters being upset at lgbt people in general.


  • #276
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Yes I agree that the vast majority of transphobic abuse and violence comes from males. That's why I don't understand why the current crop of extreme transactivists direct their hatred towards women and with their threats of rape and violence, act very much like misogynistic men. Perhaps because they are the "safe" target?

    As we're dealing with a UK issue, they have their extremely strict law around their GRA(gender recognition act) whereby its quite costly and can take years of jumping through legal hoops just to be recognised officially as changing gender despite going through the complete physical process much earlier. I believe a candidate has to travel long distances just to sit in front of strangers on a panel to validate and prove their new gender. That needed reforming to make it easier for those who competed medical transition to obtain legal recognition.
    As I see it, I think some women's groups who appear not to be mainstream have taken issue with this bringing out the extremes of those who will never accept a medically transitioned trans woman(transsexual) which itself is wrong. They are making life very hard for medically transitioned people by continuing their objections to reform hence the dispute.

    Then you have the trans self ID people who want recognition too, but the problem people don't seem to realise is that institutions are protected under the British equivalent of the Equality Act, something about sex discrimination and it's exemptions. Open to correction on this!
    Then you have the tabloids spreading their lies about transgender people like that story about Ian Huntley misleading the public, this UK trans debate has brought out the worst in some people and some people in Ireland are trying to import that nasty dispute here.


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  • #277
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,462 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Did anyone hear a thunderous Irish accented roar coming from London direction


  • #278
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    No did he complain about it or something? Seems to be the usual circle jerk of twitter happening on that link.

    Havent seen him respond to it directly but when i check his twitter he seems to make some very valid points protecting kids from adults.


  • #279
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Did anyone hear a thunderous Irish accented roar coming from London direction
    https://twitter.com/Mermaids_Gender/status/1097867934750396418?s=19

    At least he can roar without a hormonally-induced, seriously increased risk of heart attack....
    Dr. Nienke Nota — a researcher in the Department of Endocrinology at the Amsterdam University Medical Center in the Netherlands — and her team examined the medical records of 3,875 Dutch transgender people who had hormone therapy between 1972 and 2015.

    Their study examined 2,517 transgender women and 1,358 transgender men. The women were 30 years old, on average, and they had received estrogen either alone or in combination with androgen suppressors.

    The men were 23 years old, on average, and they received testosterone therapy as a part of their gender transition.

    Dr. Nota and her colleagues clinically followed the trans women for an average period of 9 years and the trans men for an average of 8 years after they started hormone therapy.

    The study found that trans women were more than twice as likely to have a stroke as cis women and almost twice as likely to have a stroke as cis men.

    Trans women were also five times and 4.5 times more likely to develop blood clots than cis women and cis men, respectively.

    Trans women also had heart attacks more than twice as often as cis women, and trans men were over three times more likely to have a heart attack than cis women.

    Dr. Nota comments on the findings, saying, "In light of our results, we urge both physicians and transgender individuals to be aware of this increased cardiovascular risk."

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324482.php


  • #280
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    That's what concerns me. Physical health gets ignored in all of this.

    For instance High levels of estrogen in men is said to increase cancer risk.


  • #281
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    That's what concerns me. Physical health gets ignored in all of this.

    For instance High levels of estrogen in men is said to increase cancer risk.

    Way worse than anything (in my opinion) is slowly emerging evidence regarding the development of the prefrontal cortex. Adolescents don't have a fully developed prefrontal cortex till about 25 and make decisions often from the amygdala (the highly reactive fight or flight region). Pubertal hormones are what help the prefrontal cortex develop and there is evidence emerging of stunting of this area where blockers are administered.


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  • #282
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Zorya wrote: »
    At least he can roar without a hormonally-induced, seriously increased risk of heart attack....

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324482.php

    Alot of maybe's there. Going back as far as 1972, a transgender person would be at least around 70 plus today and more likely to be older when they started transition at that time.
    There is no breakdown on the age of examined transgender people in their study as medical transitions were not frequent in the 70's like these days, nearly 50 years later.

    Back then and as far as the 90's, I believe they used a different form of high risk estrogen (Premarin) than the type of estrogen (estradiol) used today which is much safer. This is not factored in the article.

    It's not all straightforward as you claim to be.


  • #283
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Alot of maybe's there. Going back as far as 1972, a transgender person would be at least around 70 plus today and more likely to be older when they started transition at that time.
    There is no breakdown on the age of examined transgender people in their study as medical transitions were not frequent in the 70's like these days, nearly 50 years later.

    Back then and as far as the 90's, I believe they used a different form of high risk estrogen (Premarin) than the type of estrogen (estradiol) used today which is much safer. This is not factored in the article.

    It's not all straightforward as you claim to be.

    Read the article, they say the ages they followed, and for how long. I presume it is a study of studies so they did not personally follow anyone to 70


  • #284
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Zorya wrote: »
    Read the article, they say the ages they followed, and for how long. I presume it is a study of studies so they did not personally follow anyone to 70

    Have you read the article?

    All they quote is median age going back as far as 1972. Is that a 30 yr old in 1972 or a 30 yr old in 2010 for example? Nothing is stated about the type of HRT administered as HRT changed quite a bit since then.

    Plus it emphasises the following that you conveniently left out of your quoted article which applies to everyone...
    The authors caution that their analysis did not account for modifiable risk factors such as smoking, stress, diet, and exercise


  • #285
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Have you read the article?

    All they quote is median age going back as far as 1972. Is that a 30 yr old in 1972 or a 30 yr old in 2010 for example? Nothing is stated about the type of HRT administered as HRT changed quite a bit since then.

    Plus it emphasises the following that you conveniently left out of your quoted article which applies to everyone...

    I read it, Klaaz. The upshot of the study is there is serious cause for concern regarding cardiovascular events for people taking cross sex hormones, and many more studies will probably emerge in the future to back this up.
    Just as there are problems for women taking HRT - which is why I will not consider it when the time comes. It's simply called medical research and people should know the facts.
    It's simple, really, not a political point at all, or me being transphobic or confrontational - there is an increased medical risk, seriously increased by the numbers, though that serious increase may be somewhat modified in a minor way by lifestyle factors.
    Twice as likely is a high risk. 4 times as likely is a high risk. That's all.

    Trans men - ie people born female - are more than 3 times as likely as biological females - to have a heart attack. Three times. Even with accounting for the fags etc that's fairly shocking stuff.


  • #286
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,462 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Calhoun wrote: »
    No did he complain about it or something? Seems to be the usual circle jerk of twitter happening on that link.

    Havent seen him respond to it directly but when i check his twitter he seems to make some very valid points protecting kids from adults.
    Oh yeah, he complained or something. And the charity ended up with nearly double their money following a crowd funding campaign inspired to put him back in his box.

    https://gcn.ie/graham-linehan-encourages-cruel-campaign-national-lottery-block-trans-kids-charity-funding/


  • #287
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Alot of maybe's there.

    Sure are - but it isn’t that the point? There’s heaps of maybes and unknowns around transition - and so transgender folk should be urging caution, particularly when it comes to prepubescent kids and even young adults as referenced above.

    There are for sure some bigoted people out there who will never accept transgender people - but I think many many ordinary decent people, who are accepting of trans folk, but who have very valid concerns particularly around kids are being shut down by the very people who should also be concerned.
    It's not all straightforward as you claim to be.

    Exactly.


  • #288
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Zorya wrote: »
    I read it, Klaaz. The upshot of the study is there is serious cause for concern regarding cardiovascular events for people taking cross sex hormones, and many more studies will probably emerge in the future to back this up.

    No there is not. There is a concern for those who are at risk due to lifestyle factors just like everyone else, we need to know the profile of people engaged in HRT which was not released and yes we need more in depth studies.
    Zorya wrote: »
    Just as there are problems for women taking HRT - which is why I will not consider it when the time comes. It's simply called medical research and people should know the facts.

    That's your call, plenty of women take HRT, are they dying en masse from heart attacks? If so, HRT would be withdrawn ya think?
    Zorya wrote: »
    It's simple, really, not a political point at all, or me being transphobic or confrontational - there is an increased medical risk, seriously increased by the numbers, though that serious increase may be somewhat modified in a minor way by lifestyle factors.
    Twice as likely is a high risk. 4 times as likely is a high risk. That's all.

    Trans men - ie people born female - are more than 3 times as likely as biological females - to have a heart attack. Three times. Even with accounting for the fags etc that's fairly shocking stuff.

    Yes, lifestyle factors, we need to know the profiles of people that have been studied.
    Testosterone is a powerful hormone and yes smoking would be a risk for everyone who take HRT.


  • #289
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Oh yeah, he complained or something. And the charity ended up with nearly double their money following a crowd funding campaign inspired to put him back in his box.

    https://gcn.ie/graham-linehan-encourages-cruel-campaign-national-lottery-block-trans-kids-charity-funding/

    Ah ok i didnt know that, i looked at the charity page. Seems to be an organization that is inclusive of parental oversight so dont know why he would be so against it.

    In a way he did it a favor it seems lol.


  • #290
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    klaaaz wrote: »
    No there is not. There is a concern for those who are at risk due to lifestyle factors just like everyone else, we need to know the profile of people engaged in HRT which was not released and yes we need more in depth studies.

    The full study only seems to be available if you have a subscription to Circulation, so we can only go on what was reported in the news article - and a quote from the researcher:

    Dr. Nota comments on the findings, saying, "In light of our results, we urge both physicians and transgender individuals to be aware of this increased cardiovascular risk."

    So yeah, I’d take that as there’s cause for concern. Which is hardly surprising really - its what you’d expect.
    It’s not a dig at you or transgender people either - it’s something that they should be made aware of, and be concerned about. That’s all.


  • #291
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    You can call it what you like, but it certainly puts into context the stated concerns about protecting women from being raped.


    I'd have thought that anyone who was really genuinely concerned about protecting women from being raped might like to prioritise doing something about some of the very real, current, actual causes of women being raped, instead of obsessing with potential, future causes from other jurisdictions which don't really apply to the Irish legal scenario.

    Why not listen to actual women on this. But mums net is a mob right?


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  • #292
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,462 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    You can call it what you like, but it certainly puts into context the stated concerns about protecting women from being raped.


    I'd have thought that anyone who was really genuinely concerned about protecting women from being raped might like to prioritise doing something about some of the very real, current, actual causes of women being raped, instead of obsessing with potential, future causes from other jurisdictions which don't really apply to the Irish legal scenario.

    Why not listen to actual women on this. But mums net is a mob right?
    It's certainly a long way from representative or typical. Most women I listen to are concerned about the real, current violence against women rather than theoretical imported issues.


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